Quick Fix Game 9: The Court of The Gods

[Bort]

Kas isn't playing, unless you count him in his role as God-King.

[phattemer]

I knew that.

I'll (un)fortunately for (y'all) me be asleep for the rest of the cycle, so I'll just add that once I'm killed this cycle which I will almost certainly be, since I put forward a list of suspicions and that is always a great opportunity or very dangerous for the eliminators you should try lynching at least one of my candidates.

Edited August 5, 2015 by phattemer

[TheMightyLopen]

Is Kas? Oh Lopen, (Kas?) can you please my read my analysis if you have time and tell me whether you agree?

Oh, and Wyrm too.

 

Well, I have been reading it pretty much since you posted it. I can't really say I agree with it, since it isn't really based on anything very specific, but rather a lot of small things that I didn't really see as suspicious. Just a lot of poking.

 

Also, I have a question. This is my first time playing and I was wondering what usually happens in the case of a tie. I don't want two people dying from the lynch and a third from a rebel kill. Since Adamir and Venture both have two votes(right?) I was thinking of voting for one of them, probably Ven since they have voted twice and that's all they've ever posted. And I don't really see the reasoning behind Adamir's votes.

[Wyrmhero]

Well, we didn't get a vote from The Mighty Lopen. We got a little bit from him about why he voted as he did on Cycle 1, but I must admit to hoping for a bit more from him. He raises a good point that his head was on the chopping block during the first Cycle. I had forgotten that, it must be said. But regardless of that, I was hoping for something more regarding today's events - There have been quite a number of them, and ignoring them just seems odd. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt though, and press him again for more information next Cycle. As he's often around at this point in the day, I'm going to vote for Lightsworn Panda. Wait, no. Lightsworn Panda. Didn't realise he already had two votes on him, thanks for making me realise that, phattemer. I'll get to my vote later.

 

Prepost Edit: (since he posted while I was posting) In a tie, usually no lynches occur, or one is chosen at random. Usually the latter, in the case of a QF or MR game, it's at random from the tied players. Also, you've posted more, so you're off my radar for today .

 

In the meantime, I'm just going to briefly respond to a few quiet accusations that people don't seem to want to say seriously, which is an interesting way to approach them.

 

My intuition tells me something is wrong with Wyrm's posts - his argument with Meta before clarification may well have contributed to this.
I don't know if I'm just wary of an experienced player guiding the thread, but with Meta out of the way, it seems a perfectly reasonable place to hide...

 

I admit I probably was a little too aggressive responding to Meta. ...Actually, I really should try toning that down a bit. I think this makes three games in a row where I've been too aggressive (excluding Kas' game)... But regardless of that, I'm not trying to 'guide' the thread in any way. People are free to do as I suggest, but they're also free to completely ignore me and do otherwise. It's entirely up to them, I'm not threatening or forcing people to go along with me. If you've played with me in previous games, you should know that I hate the idea of one player acting as a central hub, and I try to avoid that wherever I can. If I appear to be steering the conversation in any way, it's just because I'm online a lot of the time while I'm at home, and that happens to be most of the day right now (some evenings excluded, like tonight). I'm not refreshing the forum ever five seconds or anything, but I do tend to drop in whenever I have a small bit of time.

 

Essentially, all I want to do is to promote discussion. Doesn't matter what (or who!) it's about, as it all helps us find Eliminators. I spend most of my time in this game attempting to coax information out of people, which usually involves directly responding to people and focusing on things which may be regarded as key points at that stage of my investigation. Not called the Wyrm Inquisition for nothing, you know

 

<phattemer snip>

 

Again, I've been accused of trying to get people to follow my lead, and of being active (not that he's said it outright at the start). Well, the latter is supposedly a good thing (why are we voting for the less active players to spur them into activity, if it's not?), and I've always been active. Doesn't matter which side I'm on, active is how I play the game. Admittedly, saying I do that as an Elminator as well doesn't help my case, but it's true . And I've said what I think about accusations of trying to play the leader now Meta's dead. I'm trying to cajole people into discussing more, but I'm not making people follow my lead or anything like that.

 

The second part, your analysis, I disagree with. It's very... Odd, how you've looked at it, I would say. Perhaps you'll accuse me of being biased, but I think your comments about me voting and immediately retracting my vote on Vauhsoj are incorrect. I voted for him to get information, then retrieved it when I was satisfied with what I got. I let him off a little more easily because he's new, yes, but this is essentially what I do at the start of the game. Nothing strange about it.

 

You then say 'the same 3 names crop up again and again'. Seems to me, looking at your list, that everyone's name crops up multiple times. Let's run a tally of how many times people crop up each line.

 

Wyrmhero: 2

Vauhsoj: 2

OrlokTsubodai: 2

Venture Mistborn: 4

The Only Joe: 1

Lightsworn Panda: 2

Alvron: 2

Adamir: 1

Shallan: 1

RavenRadient7: 1

Sir Jerric: 1

The Mighty Lopen: 1

Bort: 1

 

So the only person who stands out more than anyone else is Venture Mistborn. Saying that the three people who stand our are 'Wyrm, Bort and Vauhsoj' is a falsehood. Bort isn't even second with regards to people who have been mentioned the most. Unless you meant 'including separating people into lists' as well, but that doesn't make any sense. They could easily be arbitrary teams you've picked. Your apparent evidence for the first is 'Wyrm acted like Wyrm does, and Bort voted for Orlok who was suspicious of Wyrm, and then never posted last night after he did'. Not exactly damning stuff there, considering I know Bort's on GMT and it was getting on for 10 at the time Orlok posted. For the second team, it's 'Three people want more than a sentence from a fourth player'. You can't blame them for wanting more, and you even say you agree with them! Hardly Eliminator material... At least, not for them. To me, it sounds more like confirmation bias on your part. You either know what you want to find or you think you have one piece of the puzzle so you fit the rest around it. The second is perhaps more excusable, but the first makes you an Eliminator.

 

You also don't actually vote for me in the end, which seems odd when your 'Team A' acts with me as the lynchpin. I think it would be pretty handy if Bort was innocent but you could still point fingers at your 'main suspect', right?

 

Incidentally, Shallan's posts are nonexistent. The reason she got lynched is because she never said anything on the first Day. Pretty easy to find that out if you look back at the thread. I could maybe understand where some confusion comes into it though, if she was in on your doc a bit. I am accusing phattemer of being an Eliminator.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[Bort]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Shallan's name had something to do with her death

[Bort]

"This way please, My Lord."

 

The tall priest wearing Bortholemew's white and grey led Ri the Mysterious into the midget's audience room, where he was sitting waiting in a comfortable looking seat. A second chair had been pulled up beside the first, allowing the visitor God to sit beside the bearded one.

 

Upon seeing his guest, Bortholemew called out, "Haribo, bring us wine, two glasses, and the tray of beardnuts I made," then he beckoned Ri to come and join him. The exchanged pleasantries while the food and drink was served, then once it had been, Bortholemew dismissed all of his servants, including Haribo, allowing the Knights Awkward to talk in peace.

 

"I am here, Ri, on a quest to find the fabled Shardmarks of old," Bortholemew told the other Knight. "There are clues to the whereabouts of the Shards scattered throughout the Cosmere, and here, on Hallandren, this is the closest I've come to finding the clue before something happened to send me back home. Shardblade, avalanche, painful ways to die, but I'm used to it by now."

 

Bortholemew's beard reached around behind the chair he was sat on, and brought forth a painting. "This is one of the paintings I was asked to interpret. If you look carefully, you'll see the clock, the window, and that spear there, they all match up with the clocktower in our Library. I'm trying to find the painter, but Haribo tells me it may take some time. Should something happen to me before then, I will leave instructions for him to bring the painter to you. You must question him about the painting, and if needs be, get him home to see the Awkwardmother. I'm sending her the painting tonight."

 

The bearded midget and his beardspren looked at Ri with serious eyes and drooping eyebrows and said, "Can I count on you?"

[Gamma Fiend]

Ven the Procrastinator laid around in bed for the better part of the morning, the warm, golden sun creeping closer and closer to it's afternoon peak, when all of the green, natural world would be in it's full beauty. The god yearned to be outside, basking in the full glory of his colors, away from the insufferable debates and never-ending delegations. He had told them who he thought was most suspicious, he just still needed to get around to explaining why. He figured he would do it later. Instead he had to deal with his nagging priests and servants, beckoning him to fulfill his godly duty of the nagging petitions and dreadful hours spent examining boring art. Who needed pictures when you could already see the true beauty of the world around them?

So he decided to continue lounging around, waiting for later to do anything. He was a god, afterall, and had all the time in the world.

***

Shar, the god of sacrifice, sat in solace in his temple and draped in his tempered colors of gold and red, meditating on what to do next. He, like all of the gods, knew the threat was real and the God King in grave danger, but yet he knew each god had their own duty to fulfill. His sacrifice was still to be made, he just needed to find out how and when.

When the rest of the gods came for him, he wasn't too surprised. He was surprised, however; to see they had also all tied up and gagged Ven the Procrastinator as well, holding him captive with Awakened Ropes. It seemed he shared the same fate.

This was how both of the gods were brought to the door of the God King and his priests, declaring they were unable to decide. MiriKas had fury in his eyes and gestured towards his High Priest.

They stepped forward, "We shall let the Iridescent Tomes decide," they declared. "Strangle one of them," they said, Commanding both of the ropes that they grabbed from the reins of the Returned. The ropes responded, and immediately coiled around Ven the Procrastinator's throat, choking the life out of them in mere moments, as Shar dropped to the ground.

"It seems your sacrifice is still to be made," they said, sparing Shar.

It wasn't until the next moment that the rest of the Gods didn't notice Droll the Spontaneous' absence from the previous day's events. It wasn't until they walked right into the God's rooms and flipped over his green bedsheets that they realized he wasn't wearing maroon pajamas, a dagger sticking out of his chest, the Court of the Gods growing steadily and steadily dimmer with each passing day. 

----------------

Ven the Procrastinator was a Returned!
Droll the Spontaneous was also a Returned!

Day 4 begins, 24 hours, 9AM est tomorrow, etc.

As a quick note, would all players please be able to green out any retracted or changed votes, just to help make it an easier and faster process when counting them up for the lynch. Thank you!

Edited October 26, 2016 by Alvron

[RavenRadient7]

Ri examined the painting, eyes widened slightly as she looked. The similarities were clear, and slightly unsettling. Was yet another of their number out exploring, and leaving clues to their Library? Or, worse, did they have an enemy?

 

She didn't hesitate in giving her answer. "In this case, Bortholomew, you can count on me."

 

Sigh. Looks like Venture really was just an inactive, and not an eliminator. No wonder he never answered my questions. At this point, I don't have any ideas of who to vote for, so I'm going to poke phattemer, considering that he was a, accused of being an eliminator by Wyrm and I would like to hear his reply, and b, he wanted to know if Haelberde was playing, right before this lynch. Guess who just died?

 

This also seems to suggest that the pattern I thought the eliminators were taking, aka killing all our best and active players first, has been abandoned. I was hoping we might see an obvious skip in the pattern, and guess an eliminator, but it looks like the eliminators changed tactics.

[Bort]

Bortholemew the Blind sighed in relief, a sound that was echoed in a tiny female voice from his beard. "Thank you, Ri. With your help, the Knights Awkward may once again wield the long lost Shardmarks." He offered the other God a plate piled high with beardnuts, the speciality that Bortholemew brought into the Knights Radiant when he joined oh so long ago.

 

I'm not so sure who to vote for this cycle. I'm tempted to say Phattemer again, or even Ven for the way he has been voting, but not giving any form of reasoning, but he is dead.

 

For want of a better suspicion, Jain, your last post said you were feeling a little better and would be trying to contribute (or something like that). Are you still ill, or are you just not paying attention?

 

Edit: Raven, if either of us survive to the end of the game, we can put together an RP post then, to reveal the clue to the Shardmarks, possibly in the final write up.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Bort

[Adamir]

I need to apologize for my inactivity recently; I've had studies to take care of, and I was three assignments behind on a few subjects. And I also need to apologize for the fact that I don't have enough hours in the day to keep up with my studies, social life, two Sanderson Elimination games and Heirs to the Final Empire.

 

Which is why I am asking everyone to submit a list of three people; I will choose one list at random, and one person from those lists, to give my Breath to. If you submitted just a single name, then it would be pointless for me to give my Breath to them, as the Eliminators would know to avoid that target. And finally, thanks for not lynching me during the last few cycles.

[Wyrmhero]

I still want to hear a response from phattemer, but I'm sure I don't have to place a vote there to get that out of him. I'm interested in Sir Jerric's thoughts, considering he flagged up a group of people but never made direct accusations or votes for them.

 

Which is why I am asking everyone to submit a list of three people; I will choose one list at random, and one person from those lists, to give my Breath to. If you submitted just a single name, then it would be pointless for me to give my Breath to them, as the Eliminators would know to avoid that target. And finally, thanks for not lynching me during the last few cycles.

 

Well, obviously Wyrmhero. . Other than that, I would say RavenRadiant7 for the Day 1 lynch of Shallan and... I'm a bit stuck on a third, must be said. My dice suggest Lightsworn Panda, but I wouldn't go for him considering his inactivity. Really, I'd just go for someone who has been posting that you're at least a little sure of. Maybe OrlokTsubodai, as he has raised points and at least isn't too inactive?

 

Edit: While your studies do of course come first, that's an interestingly large amount of RP posted elsewhere, Adamir...

Edited August 5, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[RavenRadient7]

I think the names I'm going to give here will be RavenRadient7, obviously, WyrmHero, since I don't want to lose an active player, and Sir Jerric, for the same reasons. Sorry, Bort, but in this case I'm voting for those that have been actively naming people and asking questions, and these two are the two doing it the most. I will admit that I'm concerned we might see WGG that the others explained a while back, but hopefully the random aspect of the named target will counter that.

 

Out of curiosity, can the eliminators kill themselves to save another? I'm not saying that Adamir is an eliminator, but I am a bit worried we might see him "chose" a "random" target, and actually have a WGG, if he happened to be an eliminator. The fact that he is making clear that it is a "random" choice is what caused me to think of this.

 

Edit: Oh, and Bort, I would be interested in putting together such a RP, post, if one or both of us make it that far.

Edited August 5, 2015 by RavenRadient7

[Adamir]

Edit: While your studies do of course come first, that's an interestingly large amount of RP posted elsewhere, Adamir...

That may have been cheating, to an extent - sorry about that. I had written that as part of some Mistborn fanfiction a few months ago, but at the time it was filled with spelling and grammatical errors. All I did today was patch it up and make some changes to make it fit better with the rp.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Adamir

[Sir Jerric]

In case anyone finds this helpful.
Cycle Three Final Tally:
Alvron - 0: -Jerric-
Jain - 1: -Raven-, Venture
Orlok - 0: -Bort-
Vauhsoj - 0: -Wyrm-
Adamir - 2: Vauhsoj, Alvron
Lopen - 0: -Wyrm-
Venture - 2: Raven, Orlok
Bort - 1: Phattemer
Phattemer - 1: -Bort-, Wyrm

Player List:

1. Orlok Tsubodai - ??? - Black/Red
2. -- Haelbarde - Droll the Spontaneous - Maroon/Green -- Murdered Returned
3. -- Kipper - Aleck the Smart - Purple/Green -- Murdered Returned
4. Wyrmhero - Redcross the Healer - Red/White
5. -- Venture Mistborn - Ven the Procrastinator - Green/Gold -- Lynched Returned
6. Phattemer - Heavenpest the Massive - Dark Green/Neon Brown
7. -- Shallan - Lynchtarget the Innocent - Gold/White -- Lynched Rebel
8. Bort - Bortholomew the Blind - White/Grey
9. Adamir - Shar, God of Sacrifice - Red/Gold
10. Alvron - Brightwater the Keen - Deep Green/Silver
11. Ser Jerric - Jadebuffer the Eerie - Turquoise and Orange
12. Lightsworn Panda - Jain the Panda - Black/White
13. Vauhsoj - Funweaver the Festive - Pink/Yellow
14. RavenRadiant7 - Ri the Mytsterious - Black/Silver
15. --MetaCognition - Metacognition the Thoughful -- Murdered Returned
16. Mailliw73 - Braveheart, God of War - Dark Red/Purple
17. -- A Smart Guy - Artweave the Painter - Brown/Mint Green -- Lynched Returned
18. The Only Joe - Sharkbait the Incompetent - Blue/Copper
19. The Mighty Lopen - Gancho the Crass - Purple/White

I am glad to see that phattemer decided to post something substantial. An analysis that once more pushes suspicion on Wyrm for his arguments with Meta. Why does everyone keep pursuing this same line? If Wyrm really were an Eliminator, why draw such attention to himself in a big argument with the Rebel Kill target? I find it far more likely that the two of them were disagreeing in pursuit of deeper discussion. Nothing kills a conversation so fast as complete agreement between the parties.

 

On the other hand, The Only Joe started the argument with Meta. Why do so many people ignore him? Why so quick to attack Wyrm, while allowing Joe to fade into the background?

 

That said, even though Joe has been less productive in adding to the discussion, my argument against voting for Wyrm holds equally to him, save for the part where he has not been equally attacked. Thus I wonder if people are deliberately deflecting attention to Wyrm.

 

For now though, I will vote Mailliw, because he has been active around several places in the forum, yet has been neglecting to share his experience in SE with us. You are vocal enough in the current long game, But you did sign up for this one as well. I'd like to know how you would attempt to detect the Eliminators among us, if you'd be so kind. =)

 

For Adamir, I'll put forward the names of Wyrmhero, RavenRadient7, and Bort, as I think them the least suspect thus far. No, I did not suggest myself. One interesting aspect to a game like this is that the credibility of one's arguments are established post-mortem. I've shared a great deal of my thoughts, the Eliminators might decide I'm a threat if I continue, but no one else has cause to trust me unless I perish first. So why protect myself?

 

If any use of the power is a good plan it is this: being suspected, knowing you are innocent, and fearing to distract from pursuit of the Eliminators, together, that might be a strong enough reason to expend yourself to give the arguments that you have presented more weight. The only thing Adamir is missing here is a nice presentation of his suspicions and processes.

 

The downside to this method is that you are removing a villager from play, which advances the Eliminators cause. Even if you happen to protect the Eliminators target, the villager is still down one, and the Eliminators have little reason not to try again. Unless the village rallies around the "trusted" one and continues to sacrifice themselves one by one to preserve them. (Notice how the pace of the game then advances identically to before?) and if they get smart and change targets, the village is down two instead of one. Messy.

 

Wyrm: I see you would like to know why I didn't vote last night. Three reasons. One, as stated in the post, I was torn between the options and didn't feel confident enough to try condemning any of them. Two, the current leaders in the voting were both in my suspect pool, and I figured either was as good as the other. Three, I thought I might experiment with a presentation of my thoughts to see if anyone used them in the next few hours of debate, without voting myself to "start a bandwagon" for people to just jump on.

 

By not voting, I realize that I made my presentation less forceful. You have noted of yourself that you have been perhaps too aggressive in your arguments. By being less forceful, I may have reduced the chances that the Eliminators would kill me, which I count as a minor mistake (see above). I'm playing a game with them, you see. I am being bold and challenging, using all available logic to try to find them. If I am right, I become a threat that they might want to remove, if I am wrong, I consider changing my targets to provoke them further. My aim is for them to kill me in order to reveal my alignment. If I am lynched, I've failed, because the village has wasted a cycle removing me. Thus my plan of using my breath if I attract too much lynch attention. If they want to lynch me, fine, I'll go, but I want them to lynch someone else so I can use my Breath instead.

 

Is saying all of this in a public post a good method of threatening the Eliminators? Probably not. I suspect that they are less likely to ever target me after saying all of this. Or they will choose to kill me when my last shared suspicions are inaccurate to undermine the reasoning presented above. And now they know that you know that I think that they might consider that. Should I stop before I break everyone's brains? =)

 

So, Wyrmhero (and Maill, and Only Joe), in return for this two hour composition, I'd like to know your thoughts on what the consequences of being this upfront in an elimination game are likely to be, on whether my strategy is any good, on whether my strategy is broken because I've publicly released it, and so on. Has anyone tried this before?

Edited August 6, 2015 by Sir Jerric

[phattemer]

I realize that my analysis doesn't show everything, but would I really be pushing this hard for it if I was an eliminator? (Yes I know that is faulty logic but whatever.) I suggest we at least try one of my suspects: Vauhsoj, Bort, or Wyrm. I agreed that I didn't want to lose Wyrm if he was a villager, so I suggested Bort since he was more linked to the others. Also, I don't quite understand why Wyrm is being so defensive about this. I freely admit that if one is wrong, they're probably all wrong, and seeing as he wasn't the one I suggested to test, there is no reason for him to argue against it unless he knew the other person's faction. And there's only one way to do that. These reactions have cemented my theory and I will again be voting for Bort.

Now to respond to the previous posts regarding me:

Raven: Yes, Wyrm said I was an eliminator. But where is his evidence? I see none. Haelberde was on right when I was about ~4 hours(I think) before the cycle ended. I hoped that he would agree with me and place another vote on Bort.

Adamir: That is a TERRIBLE idea. Of the remaining active people, probably we have three Eliminators! Asking people to post a list is just asking for an Eliminator to get your breath; possibly even making the lynch useless! And of course my list: Phattemer, Sir Jerric, and Raven.

Wyrm and Bort both wanted a response, so here you go.

Also, if I'm wrong about this, then I'd be pretty useless to the village, so if we do decide to hit one of the three and they're innocent, feel free to get me next.

People left:

Orlok: has been pretty active. Assuming my choices are correct, he'll be taken out in a bit. Probably not this cycle because of the implications for the identity of the Rebels.

Bort: Been there, analyzed that.

Adamir: about to kill himself. Don't do it, it just takes out another villager. In actives still count for outnumbering purposes.

Alvron: I don't think he's been on that much, or if he has then I didn't notice.

Jerric: seems to be agreeing with the eliminators. Of course, he is pretty logical about it.

Jain: he's been poked a lot, and hasn't been posting much.

Vauhsoj: surprisingly inactive.

Raven: Has a lot of ties with the Eliminators(the RP with Bort, they keep agreeing with Wyrm). They are a likely target for today's kill, probably to deflect attention.

Mailliw:I believe he said he had some RL stuff.

Joe: he was on a lot earlier, but not so much now.

Lopen: Not on a ton, but enough to read through. Didn't agree with me. (Humph)

Edited August 5, 2015 by phattemer

[Mailliw73]

Sorry guys, I'm asleep for about the last six hours and the first few hours of every cycle and I have a new job that takes up a good chunk of time in the middle of the cycle, so my time in these QFs is much more limited. 

 

I have to say that I've also found Wyrm suspicious, but that Phatt himself is as well. I plan to vote for Wyrm today, and if he's innocent, then for Phatt.

 

Jerric, you've already posted it, so there isn't much to say about it. I personally think it's a fine idea.

 

Adamir: Mailliw, Raven, and Lopen. I have to say, with Raven on so many lists, she's a very good player. If she's an Eliminator, she's done fantastic and if she isn't, she's managed to convince most of us.

[phattemer]

If someone else agrees with me about Wyrm, then I'm fine with testing him. Mailliw, you should definitely lynch me if Wyrm isn't one.

[RavenRadient7]

Phattemer, I was kind of hoping you'd actually give me some reasons that Wyrm doesn't have any good reason to distrust you, rather than just say "he doesn't have any evidence' and move on. However, I do admit I have to agree with Mallaiw on this one: both you and Wyrm seem sort of not-completely-innocent at the moment. Unlike Mailliw, I feel that your actions, like being defensive without giving huge amounts of information to back up your statements while Wyrm is more than willing to try and poke holes in your logic, are more worth my vote at this time than Wyrm's. Wyrm, I think that you've been a great help throughout the game so far, but I am a bit worried that you're leaning your statements towards certain targets, though I think that phattemer is doing as well. If I had to guess at this point, phattemer is trying to get one of our stronger players lynched before dying himself, but I could be reading the situation wrong, especially considering the fact that I thought Wyrm might have been killed by the eliminators this round.

 

Mailliw, thank you for the compliment. I hadn't expected to be thought of so highly this game, especially considering that this is my first game.

 

Edit: Clarity in comments.

 

Edit2: I will also say that, if Venture had been an eliminator, I would be much more suspicious of phattemer at the moment, considering how his comments last round overlooked Venture. Since Ven was innocent, I'm looking more for a clear explanation than accusing you, phattemer.

Edited August 5, 2015 by RavenRadient7

[phattemer]

Well, that's reasonable. How about this: So I proposed a set of Eliminatora that included him, and although that could make him not trust me I don't really see why it requires that much of a reaction. I did say that we should try one, but that if they were innocent I'd probably be next. My point is that he doesn't really need to defend himself unless he knows that both himself and one of the others is guilty. Maybe he just wanted to anyway, but if I were a villager in that situation, then I would probably just have the lynch on one of the other people go through. Since he didn't, that implies that he trusts both Bort and Vauhsoj, and given that PMs are nonexistent, the only way he could do THAT is though a doc.

As to why he should not distrust me? Well, I proposed a plan that, if it doesn't get at least one Eliminator, will certainly get me killed. Seeing as the ratio of villagers to eliminators is not yet that in which a 1 for 1 trade is useful, I am not an eliminator

[A Joe in the Bush]

I am glad to see that phattemer decided to post something substantial. An analysis that once more pushes suspicion on Wyrm for his arguments with Meta. Why does everyone keep pursuing this same line? If Wyrm really were an Eliminator, why draw such attention to himself in a big argument with the Rebel Kill target? I find it far more likely that the two of them were disagreeing in pursuit of deeper discussion. Nothing kills a conversation so fast as complete agreement between the parties.

On the other hand, The Only Joe started the argument with Meta. Why do so many people ignore him? Why so quick to attack Wyrm, while allowing Joe to fade into the background?

That said, even though Joe has been less productive in adding to the discussion, my argument against voting for Wyrm holds equally to him, save for the part where he has not been equally attacked. Thus I wonder if people are deliberately deflecting attention to Wyrm.

Is saying all of this in a public post a good method of threatening the Eliminators? Probably not. I suspect that they are less likely to ever target me after saying all of this. Or they will choose to kill me when my last shared suspicions are inaccurate to undermine the reasoning presented above. And now they know that you know that I think that they might consider that. Should I stop before I break everyone's brains? =)

It's kind of broken, kind of not. It ensures you'll either be targeted tonight, or not at all. Except now that I've made this post, They'll change their plan. That's the problem with revealing anything. Everyone will see it and change their plans.

As for the situation with Wyrm, I'm extremely suspicious of the people voting for him because of the WrymCognition argument. I started that, yet they're ignoring me. (Just pay me some attention!) I'm fairly certain some of them are eliminators trying to lynch a dangerous player.

And adamair, I'd like you to give your breath to Jerric. I think it's more important to ensure someone won't die, rather than take a chance to block a random kill.

Apologies for all.the misspellings and random periods. I'm on mobile, and don't have time to edit this post. Will do that later, as well as vote.

Edited August 6, 2015 by The Only Joe

[Sir Jerric]

Phattemer, . . . I do admit I have to agree with Mallaiw on this one: both you and Wyrm seem sort of not-completely-innocent at the moment.

While I like "innocent until proven guilty", in these games I use "Suspect until proven innocent." I am just trying to vote for the most suspicious of a bunch of suspects.

 

Wyrm, I think that you've been a great help throughout the game so far, but I am a bit worried that you're leaning your statements towards certain targets, though I think that phattemer is doing as well.

 And you aren't? =)

 

Point is, if we aren't leaning down on certain targets, we aren't making any progress here. We need to threaten people, see how they defend themselves, learn their patterns of behavior, and find the ones that aren't on the village side.

 

Well, that's reasonable. How about this: So I proposed a set of Eliminatora that included him, . . .  My point is that he doesn't really need to defend himself unless he knows that both himself and one of the others is guilty. . . . that implies that he trusts both Bort and Vauhsoj, and given that PMs are nonexistent, the only way he could do THAT is though a doc.

What Wyrm was arguing against was your technique of creating a set. Those three people are conspiring in your argument. My reads of the game have not indicated such a collaboration.

 

It's kind of broken, kind of not. It ensures you'll either be targeted tonight, or not at all. Except now that I've made this post, they'll change their plan. That's the problem with revealing anything. Everyone will see it and change their plans.

That's part of the fun. Scrambles for new plans tend to mistakes. Since the village has no other means of collaborating, why not talk about all the possibilities publicly? There are some challenges involved, but when everyone knows the systems by which Eliminators can be identified and removed, anyone can be lost without too big of a set-back.

 

If we reveal nothing, then the only people collaborating are the eliminators. Which clearly gives them a serious advantage, as demonstrated in games like the first quick fix. If your only route to cooperation is in full view of the enemy, is the solution to not cooperate at all?

 

Jerric, you've already posted it, so there isn't much to say about it. I personally think it's a fine idea.

Great to hear from you, Maill. I'll grant you a lack of time for a thoughtful response, but is my strategy really that solid? I can practically guarantee that it's not.

 

If anyone cares to look at my signature, they will find that this is my fourth game. I'm not an expert. My voting accuracy has not been spectacular. I chose this strategy as an attempt to learn from the experienced players. This strategy is not a measure that succeeds when a lone player executes it all by his lonesome. I am challenging everyone in this game to do the same, to openly discuss how to best play as a team to win. If you say my plan is sound, but do not participate, you alienate yourself. If you say my plan is not sound, and explain why, then you are participating and I and the other players may be able to help you.

 

And I win by having fun and learning new strategies. Not by surviving to the end. So please don't try to defeat me, since that means everyone stops talking. =)

[phattemer]

Well, my suggestion is that we lynch either Wyrm or myself today. Upon finding that the lynched is innocent, we could get the other, but of course if the lynched is guilty there'd be no need. If we don't lynch me or one of my suspects I will probably give up my breath, as someone stated above, to proof my village-ness and hopefully get a lynch going on at least one of my suspects. That is, I'd give up my breath to save the lynch target assuming it's not who I think it should be. Of course, since y'all think I'm an eliminator that is great for you! Either way, this is good, since on the one way I'll prove that I'm a Returned and on the other hand another Rebel will die.

Edited August 5, 2015 by phattemer

[Vauhsoj]

Oh wow, this is getting confusing and intense.

Adamir, I wanted to poke you for a response, but didn't intend to start a lynch train.   (if 2 votes counts as a train)

Sir Jerric, your plan sounds good to me.  As a n00b, I would appreciate the opportunity to learn how some of the better players play this game.  I'm not sure how helpful I can be, as I am inactive for the last bit of the cycle, but I'll try to participate.

 

I am off to get a haircut, but I'll try to do some analysis when I get back.

[Wyrmhero]

Thank you Sir Jerric for your comments. You're quite right that the only way to prove the validity of your arguments is to be killed and be shown as Village. In a lot of games outside the forum, that's how the Cop Roles are played: The Cop investigates people, then gets themselves killed in order to confirm their innocence and the truth of what they say. I don't see it myself, but games get played rather differently outside of here.

 

With regards to your comments, it's an interesting idea to have everything out in the open like that. In all honesty, I think the only way to play a game like this is out in the open. Your information and suspicions help no-one when they're dead, after all. I don't know whether suggesting plans the Eliminators might follow really does anything though. Wine games like that are good to tie up time though.

 

Phattemer seems to have ramped up the attack on me. I quite like that he says that if I were innocent, I'd let the others go through, because it shows the fact that it still doesn't make sense. His only evidence about the three I'm included in is that I'm included in it. By his own logic, if I am not amongst them, then the other targets are innocent (or at least, are not guilty by association with me). My 'distrust' of you, as someone put it, is due to the flimsy arguments you're using to try and get me lynched. Seems like someone saw my argument with Meta and thought 'Ah, that's an easy way to get Wyrm killed, and we don't even have to look guilty doing it!'. Of course, I doubt all your friends are going to vote for me, that would be too easy. You just need to start the bandwagon and get others to finish it off - or perhaps even call it off for another day if needed. And if I end up looking too Village, I can always be killed.

 

Joe raises a good point - Why, if I wasn't the only one to argue with Meta, am I being targeted like this? I've been confrontational and responded defensively to things, but why in the world wouldn't you respond to points made against you? Someone who defends themselves could either be a guilty Eliminator or - gasp! - an innocent Villager attempting to stop the Village making a mistake. By that argument, people should ignore all the comments sent their way and entirely focus on getting other people lynched rather than defending oneself. I think we can both agree that that just doesn't gel.

 

Phattemer seems willing to actually vote for me this Cycle - Interesting compared to last Cycle, when he hid behind Bort for 'fear of losing a good Villager'. That's not good reasoning, because if I'm so good a Villager, why am I also not so very dangerous as an Eliminator? And I've already gone over your other points made of me last Cycle. Your arguments are flawed and don't show what you say they show. That inconsistency is why I am voting for you.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[RavenRadient7]

Jerric, I'll freely admit I'm leaning on other players. Like you said, we all are, in order to figure who the eliminators are.

 

I guess I wasn't exactly clear with why I'm a little suspicious of Wyrm. To be honest, it's mostly gut feeling at this point, Not even the Meta/Wyrm thing that most people seem to keep bringing up about Wyrm. I thought Wyrm was our next death, and instead Hael died. He's been helpful, but pushy in some cases. It's more an uncertainty, and not anything I'm willing to put a vote down on. Maybe he is an eliminator, and I'll end up dead for suggesting it. Maybe we'll end up lynching him, considering he still has the most votes on him at the moment. At this point, I'm still concerned that phattemer is too defensive, but he's willing to die if Wyrm is innocent, so either he's willing to die to remove Wyrm, a powerful threat on the board, or he is really convinced that Wyrm is an eliminator. At this point, I'm still leaving my vote on him.

 

Wyrm, does that tie up you and phattemer? Because if it does, then I'm more than willing to leave my vote where it is. I have a feeling that, of the two of you, if one dies this round and is shown to be innocent, the other is going to follow next round.