hawkedup

WARNING - This chapter has been revised and resubmitted. If you were still planning on reading and critiquing, please feel free to give this one a skip and go right to the 08.5 submission for Monday the 26th! Previously: Z, R and M are in possession of a demon egg and secret information that could change the world. Their plan is to take the egg to the highest authority, the God King. On their way, they are attacked by another demon who they believe was searching for the egg. They are saved by Z's mother who disappeared almost a year ago.I had some trouble with this chapter. I blocked it out different ways, first setting U's story apart as a flashback, then incorporating it into the scene for more immediacy and finally a mix between the two. I don't think the emotional resonance I was shooting for quite takes hold, but I hope I'm wrong. Also, this chapter ends Act 1.

I'm sorry it took my so long to get to this! This is the first chapter where Q and M really felt like independent people. I liked that we got to see their differences more and I'm really starting to like M. She reminds me of Lift from Edgedancer and I get a little smile every time she does something M-esque. I also like that the chapter has actual forward motion. I finally feel like I'm in the story and the story is moving. The problem with that is that it's only starting to happen on page 80, and this sense of progression keeps getting interrupted. Which brings me to my biggest issue with the chapter and the novel so far. I feel like the world building is getting its own way, which is strange because we are still talking about Earth and not one too far removed from present day. When I read a Dresden book I feel For instance, there's a bunch of tech being described and most of it is pretty easy to wrap your head around if you've read any sort of SF in the past, but it's at the point where as soon as I get to the description of the tech my eye immediately starts skimming. The tech will either do what the plot needs it to do or it won't be mentioned again. And therein lies my issue. I feel like I'm getting a lot of information that isn't directly pertinent to the book I'm reading. In 80 pages I feel like I've really only gotten 5-10 pages of truly important information and most of that is muddied or muddled.

1 - "Notebooks, paperbacks, three-ring binders and harcovers were all squished together on the shelves." The thought of this makes me cringe! lol - Distrusting D feels a little out of place at this point. 2 - The poison ivy threw off my sense of setting. I was picturing a bigger city where poison ivy wouldn't grow wild. 3 - "I couldn’t make sense of how the books were organized..." At least they tried. I'm still anxious about it. - "I learned that factory... hauntings would resume." I feel like more specific instances would really suit the narrative. 4 - "I’d gotten hit with a wave of random sadness more than once walking into a small room with an old bassinet in an old Victorian-house-turned-antique store in western Massachusetts." I really like this image but it's very awkwardly worded. - Are we supposed to dislike the dad? Cos I do. Hope we get more about this relationship. 5 - "Ghosts were easy enough to accept." I think your premise is at odds with your world building. Do common people know about ghosts? Why or why not? In the age of social media, I can't imagine a REAL ghost not going viral. Unless they were common place. 6 - "C went missing a few weeks ago." Nice little "the plot thickens" twist. 7 - "like hot water dripping out of a kettle onto my heart" Interesting. - "My skin felt like it was covered in bugs and being ticked by tall grass." Both seem a bit much. - "My blood felt like it had turned to soda." Huh? This one lost me. 9 - Good opening. Gives us direction and purpose. - After one page the momentum is still good and streamlined. 10 - "I looked around and realized the other mannequins were gone." Not to belittle what came before, but this is the first twist that has gotten me invested in what is happening. 12 - "It's a little haunted..." I love this. Overall: I feel this was your strongest submission so far, especially chapter 6 which I felt had really good forward motion throughout. As for the supernatural elements being muddied, I kinda see where the others are coming from, but I also think having the characters pick a specific theory earlier might turn that mud into world building foundation. I also think the characters voices are working. When you said you tried to make them sound younger I was hesitant but it works well enough. I read a lot of Enderverse books so I'm okay with children not necessarily speaking like "children". Sorry again about the late reply! Looking forward to the next submission.

I would also like a spot when subs come back online

Thank you! We grew up together like brothers and everything about his disappearance is fishy. The last anyone heard from him he was leaving a casino. His truck was found on fire in the middle of nowhere. Two people were caught using his cards but were cleared for some reason but now two other people who were also using his cards are in custody. Meanwhile there is no news about him and search parties have turned up nothing. Anyway, sorry, not trying to hijack your thread! I’ll read the submission ASAP.

@shatteredsmooth I'm sorry I haven't done any reading this week (a relative is currently a missing person and my head just has not been in the right space) so I haven't read this submission yet, but when I saw the subject for the newest episode of Writing Excuses, I came right here to share it. Have you given it a listen yet? Worldbuilding Gender Roles

Sounds awesome! Have fun! Looking forward to listening to the podcast

What's the big event, anyway?

Me too. Will give me a chance to catch up on critiques!

It *is* established before but I tried to play it down in the hopes that the reader’s expectations are at least slightly subverted when they get to the scene in this chapter. High praise! I see the confusion. The blade hits a rib and she dead arms, but looks like I forgot to actually include that Good catch! Thanks for reading, guys!

The first time was M making a mistake. The second time was supposed to read as Z learning from that mistake and intentionally using the battle cry as a distraction so the warrior could issue the final blow. Obviously I missed the mark since both of you flagged this moment so I’ll try to make it clearer.

These recaps are getting harder and harder! The World: Everyone is born with a soul lantern. During puberty, soul lanterns coalesce into a physical form that matches the owner's personality in some way. People in this world experience something called the turn of age. Around 35-40, ageing quickens exponentially and people die of old age soon thereafter. A war has been raging at the Front against a force of invading demons for generations. The story: One of the God King's generals comes to Z's small town and reveals there is a demon in the area. She is shocked when two of her classmates reveal that they know where the demon is. It is in the shape of an egg. When Z touches the egg, it reveals a secret: Soul lanterns are causing the turn of age. Afraid of what the God King's general might do to them if they reveal the truth, they decide to take the issue to the highest authority in the Empire, the God King himself.

Don't think that! The writer of the piece is almost always too close to the project to see small stuff like spelling errors, dropped words, typos. Brandon has said multiple times that his books sometimes make it all the way to the publication stage with spelling errors. I mean, spell check IS your friend, but at this stage, you definitely shouldn't be putting any extra effort into catching these issues because it'll bog you down. It'll become a chore. (At least it would if it was me.) Spelling errors and typos are such easy fixes and can be done at the very end. A simple solution would be to ask us in your OP not to worry about spotting these things for you?

Hi @Alderant! I'm intrigued by the premise and love that you are writing for your little girls. I also write for my kids to read someday. The others hit on everything that pinged for me when it comes to the gender issue, and I don't think I can add much more to the discussion there, so I'm going to focus on some of the more technical aspects of the chapter. First, the line-by-line, which is pretty sparse without the gender issues: 2 - Does L have a heightened sense of smell? The examples given seem very specific, and not things that would at any time overpower the smell of the city. 3 - Okay, but there's no explanation as to why the glowpost glows. Also, it seems like she just stops at it so you can describe it to us. 7 - Why doesn't she just take her business elsewhere? You've already established that female knights are a thing, surely there's someone in town who specializes in female armor. 10 - What's the difference between black hair and midnight hair? 13 - You describe A as bland, which directly contradicts previous description. 20 - The three women aren't interesting. I had to stop my eye from skimming the description for all three, and in the end I didn't feel rewarded for sticking it out. Hook: So the biggest hook (for me) is a female character who rebels against traditional gender roles. The problem, however, is that besides showing her calf, she doesn't actually DO anything interesting the entire chapter. She has no goals or ambitions, nothing that makes me root for her. When I realized she was the princess, I became even less interested in her struggle because, quite frankly, it doesn't seem like a princess has ever actually had to struggle. So her rebellious nature comes across more petulant and spoiled than it would if I was reading about someone with less social standing. When I find out that she's on the cusp of being Queen, I find myself apathetic. Especially with the way the inciting incident is blocked.The Queen has been sick before so L probably should've expected this anyway, and the whole thing is left on a big maybe. Considering the meandering nature of the chapter, I think this inciting incident needs to be more of a gut punch. A simple fix would be killing the Queen outright. It would certainly put a period on the meandering and tell the reader that things are happening instead of things might be happening soon. Another really simple issue is some unnecessary redundancy here and there. 1 - You use the word "back" 4 times in as many lines. 5 - "The blacksmith stared at her blankly, not even blinking." That's what staring is. 17 - You refer to the number of women (three) no fewer than 10 times once they are introduced and on this page use "all three" three times in one paragraph. The Good: The prose are strong and the dialogue, while nothing eye opening, is functional and feels natural. I didn't make many line-by-lines because I was mostly engaged throughout. It didn't FEEL like a 5,500 word chapter. I do like the characters even if I'm not emotionally invested yet. Definitely looking forward to your next submission!

As I continue to write Z's chapters and listen to all of your feedback, I'm finding ways to streamline the other POVs to avoid just this, so I'm glad you are "feeling" Z's story. Already I've figured out a way to incorporate L's chapters into Z's when the time comes so that even when L does move the plot, it's filtered through Z's story instead of a completely separate story that eventually ties together. It'll still be a few chapters before we meet L in this new timeline, but I think (hope) you'll like how she is handled better. That's the plan! Thank you for your thoughts on dialogue. I thought I had responded to this earlier, but I took what you said to heart for the dialogue in my next submission. Thank you guys for reading!

Hi, @Robinski! Glad to see we have some forward movement here. But. I had some issues with this chapter. The five minutes later thing doesn't work for multiple reasons. First, and foremost, it's jarring. I had to stop and go back just to make sure it happened. It feels like you're trying to emphasize how big this moment is to T by showing us her reaction first, which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but this is problematic because now I'm expecting something big and I'm disappointed when it's something I've seen a thousand times before. Blackmail about homosexual infidelity. Meh. Seems kinda tame especially considering this is the future and T probably should have realized there was a chance of getting caught. Then there's the fact that she mopes for a few more pages about it and it becomes annoying, fast. Has this woman never experienced adversity or hardship? Did she not think about someone using this against her when she chose infidelity? She is a doctor at a high clearance facility is she not? I'm having a really hard time liking her. My second big issue is not revealing what M asks her to do until she's doing it. Once again, I think you're holding back information to build up tension, but what tension? We know about three things about T, one of which is that she's a doctor who oversees these weird animals, so it's not like you can surprise us with the reveal. And for half of her section I'm sitting here wondering if I missed something. This leads to re-reading followed by skimming. The bigger issue, though, is that you've now set a very--VERY--dangerous precedent: The unreliable narrator. With a tight third person POV, readers expect a certain level of knowledge to be passed along to them. Now though, for the rest of the book, I'm going to be wondering what the author (not the character but the author) is holding back. I've seen this type of story telling work before, but it's rare. Kelsier from Mistborn immediately comes to mind, but Brandon earns that reveal over the course of the book and only does it once. I agree with the others about M's section feeling showy and lacking payoff. I mentioned this in Shatter's thread, but each section really should revolve around a specific scene, and I don't feel that in M's POV. It's more a string of internal musings that don't really clear up 1) why he blackmailed T and 2) why this particular plan. A few more things I'd look out for: The string of big blocky paragraphs kinda feels monotonous after a while. You have a habit of making entire paragraphs out of short and choppy sentences, which works in some places but sometimes feels clunky since there are other sections where the syntax is very different. I'd also pay special attention to who, exactly, the subject of the narration is at any moment. I've noticed you rely heavily on the reader seeing a pronoun and defaulting it to the POV character. Yes, you can get away with this, but there were a few times where you said she and were talking about T but the actual paragraph told me that "she" was someone else. EG: "E would know what to do, but that would drag her into this mess. She would not do that. This was her problem." It's not a big deal, and it's clear from what came before that T is thinking about herself, if you look back, but strictly speaking that bolded she is referring to E and not T. Very, very minor but in some instances enough to make a reader double take and lose the flow. Wow. That was all pretty negative, which is misleading because I felt this was the strongest chapter so far. I didn't feel the need to make many line-by-line notes because I was mostly engaged throughout, and most importantly I feel like the story has FINALLY begun. Things are moving. There's mystery and suspense and characters I have feelings toward (mostly dislike but that's okay because I like Q and M). I'm actively excited to find out what happens next!

I'd like a spot for Monday, please!

Hi @shatteredsmooth! I didn't make many line notes: Starts off with a LOT of preparation and rationalization even for a non-middle grade book. I like the attention to detail, but the story is getting lost within itself. I'm very curious as to what the cookie to cat feeding exchange rate is these days. My interest wasn't truly piqued until page 6 when we learn about A's past. The meeting between E and D is jarringly convenient, especially considering how meticulously careful E has been this entire time. On the last page E refers to A with a male pronoun multiple times. Overall: Everything feels a bit rushed, but I think I know why (more on that in a moment). What I like: I like that the story has some more direction now and that E has become more proactive. I like that we learn more about A and that you introduce a plot line that ties them with the mannequins. I also like the new character. I feel the gender pronoun stuff is a bit forced, but then I have only ever had to deal with such a thing in real life a handful of times, usually boiling down to: "Actually, it's..." You mentioned pacing (it feeling like it's dragging) and I think I see exactly what the problem is. It doesn't feel like you're thinking or writing in terms of building a scene. You're stringing together events, exposition and train of thought into a timeline, and in most of your chapters you've been fortunate enough that the scenes have almost built themselves. This is not the case in Chapter 3, however. There isn't a single coherent scene that doesn't feel like it's part of a long laundry list, and scenes are literally why we read. Every chapter needs (at least) one concrete scene to act as a linchpin. Everything else you write should serve these scenes. I think refocusing on this primary element in your writing will not only help you fix Chapter 3, but it will make the other chapters' scenes pop off the page a lot more. I would refer you to THIS Writing Excuses episode. Hope this helped! Looking forward to more of the story next submission!

With a few hiccups here and there, I think this was a really good chapter. We have some action and the MC finds a purpose and forward momentum. The Greek elements weren't jarring at all. I think the first section should be included in the previous chapter since the rest of this chapter has it's own through plot that works on its own and the previous chapter had some direction issues. The good thing about direction issues is that you can get away with them if you deliver big at the end. I liked bringing WV back. I'm wondering if R's chapter shouldn't be your prologue/chapter 1 and then just go right into 3 chapters of J. I think that one switch alone would help with some of the pacing issues. At first I thought her coming into money right before wanting to hire a manhunter was too convenient, but the resistance she experiences helps to balance this out. It gives her an obstacle and a moral dilemma (i.e. direction) which I think is the primary thing that has been lacking thus far. My biggest question, though, is... Why a manhunter? I understand why that is her first idea, but aren't there alternatives? Couldn't she use the money to help outfit and train locals? Aren't there other private security people out there who aren't as extreme as manhunters? I think a compromise could've been met between J and the mayor. So, I see why you think you need to do this, but I disagree. It's like Brandon Sanderson and the Writing Excuses cast say. It's better for aspiring writers to push forward in a draft and change things as you go and write the whole thing straight through than to keep going back to the beginning. This leads to you being more practiced at writing beginnings than middles and endings, which in turn makes your beginnings worse since what comes after isn't as good. Also, it's much easier to fix a beginning when you already have the rest written. I mean, to each his own and all that, and if you feel it's right for you to go back to the begining, then it's right for you. But this story has so much potential and has only gotten better with each submission, and while this group has harped on a couple things (a bit too harshly in some case imho) I personally think it would be a mistake to go backwards.

Hey @shatteredsmooth! I'm excited to read something novel length from you! First and foremost, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the title reminds me of Conjunction Junction (what's your function). I assume this is on purpose? I agree with the others about the tension wavering in and out. Part of this stems, I think, from the chapter break. After the first chapter, I had no idea what type of story I was reading. Was this going to be a purely political commentary piece about gender norms? Was this a supernatural story? I've read and loved your writing before so I personally trusted you as an author to deliver, but if I was giving this the ole "One Chapter Test" I don't think I would've continued since the only real through stream was antiquing, something I'm not overly interested in. A really simple fix would be to simply combine the two chapters into one and let the second half of the chapter carry the first half. I didn't make very many line notes because I was mostly engaged throughout: 1 - I really like the opening line. I'm assuming the rest of the paragraph is telling me that people in this world can/are turned into mannequins if they look into the eyes of one? Cool concept, but the execution is a bit clunky. - Who flips a coin like that? 3 - What do bugs have to do with dust? 7 - She stuck her tongue out at me. “Because I’m a grown up.” I love this. 9 - I'm not on board with your use of Kodak moment. I get that in real life we take sayings that already have a meaning and then change them to match something personal to us, but as the reader I'm not "in" on this meaning so even though you gave us the amended definition I will always see Kodak moment--especially considering the brand name--as depicted in the commercials and the like before I see it through the eyes of your characters. So every time you mention it, I'm jolted out of the story, even if only momentarily. 10 - "I wasn’t a boy or a girl." If you're going to tackle gender issues, I think this it needs to be more specific. I see nothing that says what gender this person was born as, which they identify with. Are they transgender, transvestite, transexual? None of the above? As a heterosexual cis male, I read this character as being a young female who likes both boy and girl things. If you take too long to tell me otherwise, when you finally do tell me I'm going to have to wipe what I, as the reader, thought I knew about the character and start from scratch, and that is NOT something you want your readers doing 10k+ words into a story, especially a story written in first person. No notes for the rest. Good tension. Needs to be cleaned up, of course, but I was engaged. Looking forward to the next submission!

I'm so behind! Just got done with my busiest month of the year at work, though, so I should be caught up by Sat and then moving forward at a much quicker pace! My line-by-line are of course in the shared document, but most of my issue with the chapter have been addressed already, especially the aimless wandering. I get that this is a second book, but I'm 30 pages in and I don't feel like the book has even started yet. I also want to draw special attention to the fact that Q and M have very similar dialogue. I don't think there's nearly enough disparity between them, though they both THINK a lot about how different they are. They both use similar vernacular and real world slang, some of which would be long out dated by the time this story takes place. I want to feel just how big of a generation gap there is between them. These characters are supposed to compliment each other, but they are also supposed to foil each other, and the foil isn't coming across very clearly. I hate the line "show, don't tell" but I feel like the differences between the characters are being told to me rather than shown.

Thank you for pointing this out. I'm struggling with the maturity levels of these characters. On the one hand they are young but on the other, they live in a world where 20 is middle-aged and they will be fighting at the Front when they are 16. High praise! Thank you! It's more the fact that it's a very small town than percentages being different from the real world. Good point. I'll try to hang a lantern earlier that makes it clear that anyone is allowed to request an audience with the God King or something. So, in previous chapters I referred to this as bars of lightning in the sky but I thought having two names for the same thing (and one name being lightning which we associate with something else entirely) was needlessly confusing and so now it's all referred to as mage's fire. Thanks for the feedback, everybody! Glad to see the changes are well received.

Previously: Z is a 14-year-old girl from a small town. She and two of her classmates, R and M, sneak into an emergency town council meeting. At the meeting, one of the God King's generals addresses the council and reveals that a demon from the Front is loose in the area. Later, to Z's surprise, she learns that R and M know where the demon is. They say the demon is friendly They show her the demon, which looks like an egg. When Z touches the demon egg, a recording plays. The recording reveals that soul lanterns (something everyone has) are the product of a virus that is killing everyone years earlier than they should die. Note: Before submitting to RE, I workshopped this chapter with some friends from the NM Autism Society. I showed them Z's previous chapters and your feedback, and they helped me get a better grasp on how to write someone with social-emotional agnosia. They also helped me come up with the list of expressions that features in this chapter (and will be worked into previous chapters later). Hoping this one reads better than Z's last chapter. I know there's still a ways to go to avoid Hollywood autism so if we might "Can of Worms" that topic and focus on tearing apart other aspects of the chapter for the time being I'd be grateful. Thanks for reading!

Before I get into my critique, I want to talk about this a bit. First and foremost, I say do not remove it. It's interesting and different and you have the writing chops to make it work. True, it's not quite clicking with the people in this group yet but it's been a month since we saw chapter 1 and I feel that it's clicking more and more as you go. I think a lot of readers will be drawn to the story just based on the Ancient Greek aspect alone. But where is the disconnect coming from? I'm thinking from three primary places: 1) Everyone is so used to standard westerns (either through novels or TV or movies) that when we read your story we see American Western novel first. Because of this, everything else feels like it's being layered on top of that. But what I think you are going for, and correct me if I'm wrong, is instead a world where Ancient Greece never faded away and instead spread across the globe culminating in the world you are writing, which happens to have a Rustic Frontier setting (NOT an American Western setting). 2) Stemming from 1, part of the disconnect stems from the naming convention you are using. The cities are good, but everyone is named like they could be out on the panhandle today. They have names that have become cliche as American Western names. I think if the characters were named with an (evolved) Ancient Greece naming convention, it would help the readers get over the hump because they (we) would stop seeing American Western and start seeing New Athenian Frontier. 3) Not only are you trying to tell a New Athenian Frontier story, but in 3 chapters you introduced this setting, a unique magic system AND some futuristic technology. I'm not saying you can't have it all, but with so much being introduced, it's hard for a reader to catch their footing in the setting, which in the case of this story, I think needs to happen first. This chapter does a GREAT job of helping us find traction, though, and I think you're on the right path. Which brings me to my actual feedback for the chapter: There's a lot I like about this chapter. The writing (with only a couple exceptions) was clear and concise. Considering very little happens, I thought it was paced well. I disagree about cutting the front too much. I actually really really liked seeing the town. Kinda felt like a Stars Hollow vibe. I was more invested than I was during the action packed chapters. Gripes: - J is VERY passive in this chapter. Not just passive but for most of the chapter she is a passive observer. We get told so much information but most of the info doesn't affect J in any significant way. She doesn't make any decisions, she doesn't actively do anything that moves the story forward. Luckily, there is the illusion of progress with the selling of the farm, but really this happens off screen before the chapter begins. By the time we see that this decision was significant to her, the decision has already been made. - The dialogue. I don't mind the colloquial speak (Though if these people's English evolved from Ancient Greek, wouldn't their accents, cliches and the like be different?) but I did notice that all the characters have very similar voices. With the exception of a heavier accent here or there, the dialogue doesn't really tell me much about the characters. As I went: 1 - I like what you're trying to do with the description of the alter but it becomes kinda a slog by the end of the paragraph. 2 - "gray—or was it orange?—bottle" Is she color blind? - "leaving lover" - Alliteration dilutes poignancy. - "J watched it leave..." Need a stronger word than leave here. 3/4 - "And J knew she would." Awk. I'd cut. - "hell or high water" Cliches should be more Greeky. - Pretty big info dump here. 5/6/7/8 - "They’d never bake another venison stew..." I like all this but I'm still not sure I understand the nature of their relationship, but it is good character/world building. - "“Lords, girl. Just a little drop of blood won’t kill ya, though I suppose cryin’ blood ain’t a good omen." I love this. - This whole chapter is a significant tone shift from the first two. Personally, I like it so far, but keep in mind that you've at least momentarily lost the illusion of progression. 11 - Writing Excuses has forever biased me against getting a character description in a mirror like this. I don't remember the episode but they were talking about the "tells" of inexperienced writers (things that get agents and editors to put your book down) and this is one of them. - "nothing to suit her mood" Is that what she wants? I feel like you meant to say something different than suit. 12 - I like what you have so far, but over halfway into the chapter and J hasn't done anything proactive. There's not even any internal struggle about something she might have to do coming up. - "He didn’t press for more, as it was an open secret that there was a hand-bow beneath the bar." I love this. 13 - I don't mind run-on sentences (big fan of David Foster Wallace) but this one loses its thread about 2/3rds in and just becomes awkward. - "sounded like he was trying to swallow half a dozen boogers from the back of his nostrils" Gross. Awesome. - The anecdote about the chicken is cute, but it breaks the flow of the narrative. Could this be incorporated into dialogue? 19 - No more comments after page 13. Good hook (literally) at the end. Good work! Looking forward to Chapter 4.

I'd like a spot for Monday, please.