Elbereth

Okay. So yes, it's possible that Cloud and I are on the same eliminator faction to cover him up. But really? One, I took my vote off of Eramit before I left. If I really didn't want Cloud scanned I would have left that vote right where it was. And in general, banking on a teammate getting the scan result is ridiculously risky and dumb. Two, if I were an eliminator and he wasn't (which is in fact plausible), I wouldn't have revealed him at all. I'd just have kept quiet that I received the scan at all. So that's my thoughts on the subject. I'm happy with the revealing only alignment thing, as everyone seems to be. As for scanning Senators... hm. I can see the duelist argument, but other than that I think non-Senators is maybe a little more useful, for two reasons: One, as you say, the Senate has a magnifying glass on them. They're already under lots of attention, and thus we're more likely to catch out the eliminators among them. (One point towards using the Senate doc, actually, is that it forces the eliminators into realtime reactions, which are much more difficult to fake than a post that you have plenty of time to revise and go over with teammates or whatever.) Two, they're also the people most marked for death in this game, so scanning them is less useful because they have a higher likelihood of dying and having their alignment revealed anyway. While I can't really refute this argument (only thing I have to say is really that if people consider me suspicious enough to be recalled, that's fair. They're not correct, so I won't want that to happen, but I have no particular objection to not being a Senator, only to the replacing me with someone else part, if that makes sense?), it's interesting to me that you asked about Elenion doing this but made no reference of me, when I said practically exactly the same thing? And yep, that's correct. Oh, and Mek? I actually did choose a name in the signup thread. Saoli. I'd be okay with recalling Elenion (several things have come off as rather awkwardly worded to me, but it's possible that that's newness), but I like the Senate staying the same plan more, so I won't vote, I don't think.

Yep, I mean link from LG22. I don't remember you doing that. At all. What I would guess is just that you provided reasonable... oh. Don't bother. I remember. Essentially the difference is that you provided convincing reasoning afterwards, I guess? And Eramit's reasoning did not convince me. Which isn't really much, I know, but it's also 12:30 in the morning, so... I'm not necessarily at my most coherent. I'll probably explain a bit more in the morning, but yeah, you don't have to go find that if you don't want to. I remember what you're talking about.

Uh... I did? I don't remember this. Link please?

Point. Would you prefer that I focus on his attempt to take over the government and become a tyrant? Because that's so much more of a comfort. Yeah. I was referring to the "While I'm alive, I'll endeavor to remind everyone" etc etc etc. Putting yourself in a position of authority. Kolo? And I'm certainly considering your actions as much as those phrasings, don't worry. I don't think I'm tunneling on you yet. I'm completely fine with this, hypocritical though it might be to say. (Because I will still be using the doc. I practically guarantee it. But I'll try to use the thread as much as possible for actual discussion.) *She, but yes. That'd be me. I'm... I mean, I'm happy, but also kinda frustrated? exasperated? at the results of this lynch. This is the third time in a row, practically, that we've lynched an eliminator D1. LG22, QF16, and now this. I'm not going to complain, but... it really doesn't feel like we've earned it. No one was suspicious of Con. No one lynched him because he'd slipped up or been scanned or anything. No, it was pure chance (and possibly some help from his eliminator friends). Maybe that's just me. As for why I shouldn't be demoted: Well, I don't know. I don't mind being recalled, though I wouldn't particularly prefer it. I'd use the fact that I'll be consistently active, but actually everyone currently in there is generally active (obviously can't tell with Elenion, but seems active enough at the moment). So. There's that. Also: I received Cloud's results. He's a Village Duelist. So there's some more good news. I should post once or twice more in the cycle. (I'm saying this mostly so that I actually do force myself to post.) For now, I'm going to sleep.

I was curious whether I could get anything out of him before he knew I was suspicious of him. Sadly not. And... maybe not, but it's also D1. That's the best I have.

Don't worry. By the time you come back in two years, I'm sure plenty of people will have played more than you. Uh... no. Please no one vote Orlok into the senate. We seem to have different memories of how that turned out: as I recall, everyone died. Right, onto non-banter. Aman. Currently, you're my strongest suspicion. As in LG21, it's mostly gut, but I'll try to point out what particularly seemed off to me. This paragraph. This is the thing that really stood out to me. You're placing yourself above the rest of the players (which you usually do to an extent, but generally not this bluntly). "Us Dulas" and that kind of thing is a phrase I've always regarded as eliminator-like, because you're deliberately and obviously placing yourself with the village. You're telling people to trust each other somewhat, but you're also telling them that there's no possible way to trust them completely because even if they kill an eliminator they could be the other kind of eliminator. So my vote is staying on you this turn, almost certainly. Haven't put my Senate vote on you, because that feels unfair, but I'm certainly considering it. Now, I do like this plan. Regardless of the fact that it's coming from my current highest suspicion, the idea seems solid. (Which is part of why I'm not putting my senate vote on you, yet. While I think you're an eliminator, I don't know that it's in our best interests to kill a Senator.) I also put my scanvote on Eramit, because of these two quotes: You put your vote on Bard and then retracted without anyone's input. To me, that spells "more experienced people in your doc telling you to vote for someone else". I'm not voting for you because I don't want you to die D1, and I don't want to vote if I don't want who I'm voting for to be lynched, but I regard that as suspicious. (And yes, I saw your explanation. It didn't change my opinion.) That's all I have for now. I should be on in the couple of hours before turnover, but I can't guarantee anything before that, and if I do check in it'll likely be in the Senate doc rather than a post, because that's easier for me. Sorry to those who can't talk in there. That does not sound fun.

Yes, and look how well that turned out for all involved. Apologies. Tall. Not particularly pretty. Dark hair, I'd say. Uh... not sure what else you want of me? Stern-looking, I guess. Harsh. Sandhya blinked at the girl sitting near her. "Really? Ten boxings, for a name that anyone in this room could probably tell me? That's a bit ridiculous. And I don't need his House or his address, for your information. The first even I know, and what good would the second do me? So I could go visit his grave sometime?" She shook her head, getting up. "Ten boxings, really," she sniffed. "For a name! I just wanted it so I could pay him proper tribute, by the Lord Ruler!" She shook her head and started heading towards the balcony. She needed some air. She was trying to find the Inquisitor, not get involved in these petty squabbles. They didn't matter. None of it mattered, except for making the Inquisitor pay. Rae, you can call her back or not. I left it ambiguous in case you're too busy travelling or whatever to respond. Sorry for being so quiet recently. My internship's taking up a lot more of my time than I'm used to, and... other things are happening, too. >> I'll try to post a bit more than I have been, though. Burnt.

Some stuff I didn’t have time to say earlier: Aman: That’s to the GM’s discretion if he wants to call in the IM, but… I see it as perfectly within a player’s rights to do that if they’d like. There’s even precedent with LG4. As long as the player understands that if they help the other side they still won’t win, it’s totally fine. We may differ in that viewpoint, though. Oh, got it. Wait, 27 players in the game. Minus seven for his faction including him. Minus two for the Inquisitor/Spiked? That’s not 19. That’s 18. Unless I’m doing my math wrong somewhere… Really? I kinda doubt that, given how long he’s been gone. And the fact that for the most part (and I think even more in the past, though I’m not entirely sure on that point) GMs balance pretty much completely randomly, without any handpicking at all except for obviously wrong balances (Maill as a Coinshot, for example :P). Maill: >> Yes, thanks so much for that. Aman: What Maill does has a purpose, too. That’s not the distinction as I see it. Being a Chaotic isn’t not having a reason for what you say. It’s not having a readily apparent reason. You can never tell if someone had a reason for what they said. You can only take their word for it. All you have is your own subjective perspective, so the only way you can categorize people as Chaotic is if their actions don’t make sense to you. So who is and who isn’t a Chaotic will vary from person to person somewhat, I think. Art? I'm excited now. ...You do realize that kandra scans come after buying koloss, correct? Just checking. And you and Kipper have now quoted different numbers for Lekal. The problem is that neither of you is more trustworthy than the other, because I don't trust either of you at all. Don't have much time left tonight, but I'll stick a vote on Orlok for now, since I still want an explanation for yesterday. May change that in the morning when I have time to lay out my thoughts against someone else, but right now I have about three more minutes with wifi, so I don't really have the time. >> Aman's said most of what I wanted to say on the subject of Orlok, anyway. I have a few more things to say, but no time, so I'll probably be posting again in ten hours or so. Until then, good night (/afternoon/morning/whatever depending on your timezone)!

Sandhya sat properly as always, demurely looking down at her hands, though inside she seethed with resentment. My sister was just killed by an Inquisitor, and I have to go to a stupid party! I could be out there hunting a murderer and instead I’m stuck in here because Father only cares about power and Houses, instead of the threat right under his nose. The threat that killed his daughter. Her eyes burned, with tears or with rage, and she kept her head down. Just because she was being forced to be here instead of out avenging her sister didn’t mean she had to be helpful. Maybe if she came back with nothing, he wouldn’t send her again. Or beat me, more likely. She couldn’t find it in herself to care at the moment, though. She rubbed at the inside of her navy blue, lacy sleeve. She hadn’t ever worn this dress that she could remember. Too muted and somber for her tastes, or it had been. But it suited her mood now, even though it itched. She wasn’t a bubbly young girl anymore, just playing with suitors and not much else. None of that mattered anymore. Only finding the Inquisitor. She idly took out her pen and notebook that she always had with her, then looked over to the spot where the dead man had lain before he’d been taken away and the floor cleaned so that she couldn’t even tell there’d ever been blood there. He’d been killed by the Inquisitor, too. She was nearly certain of that. No one had seen the murderer, who had apparently vanished into thin air, although everyone was certainly accusing each other enough of the deed. They were wrong, though. The inquisitor was to blame, again. And who knew what family the dead man had had? A sister, a brother, a father? “If only I knew his name,” she murmured. Sorry for not posting for so long. Wanted to get some RP up before any game-relevant thoughts, and haven’t had time until tonight. Game relevant thoughts coming within the hour, I hope. If not it’ll be in the morning. Depends on how much I have to say, and judging by the 5 multiquoted posts... may be a lot. Maybe not. We'll see, I guess. Not sure if the ball is running multiple nights or this happened last night or what, but whatever. Rae, you’re up.

Sorry for not posting yet this cycle. It’s been a busy couple of days. Don’t have much time now, either, so I’ll make this short. Aman - may respond in more detail later, but yeah, you’re fine. You’d mostly gotten what I was saying by the time I said it, but I wanted to put it out there anyway. It just sounded a bit like you were trying to dictate in your first couple of posts, but you got a lot better. I’m going with Maill on the Chaotic definition, though. The point isn’t doing things without thoughts for the consequences or without having reason for doing it. The point is that everyone else thinks you have no reason for it. I think. I guess it’s not very clearly defined. Rae - Um, I haven’t really thought about it? Sandhya’s going to be dressing in muted colors from now on given that she’s in mourning. Say, brown hair, brown eyes, medium height, pretty? Not sure what you’re looking for. Why do you want to know what Thanata looks like, though? Given that she’s dead. And sorry for not RPing her at the ball already. I’ve been busy. I’ll probably post more substantially in a few hours when I get home, but for now that’s all I have time for.

Oh, shush. I haven't been in a doc with Alv for weeks now, whereas I've talked basically every day with Wilson, so... I'm not surprised I'm reflecting her more right now. I hate quote formatting. Good night.

Well, I’d say that in this case the spokesperson wouldn’t really be interacting with anyone but the three other spokespeople, and definitely not putting forward any opinions that their House didn’t agree on (unless prefaced by “this is just my personal opinion” or something similar), so I don’t think that’d be too much of an issue, personally. Still don’t have any good reasons for doing it, though, so at this point I don’t think there’s any need. In my personal opinion, that’s not suspicious on Joe’s part. (It did amuse me, though.) He’s used that kind of text before, and that’s exactly the kind of thing he’d think of. I’m not necessarily inclined to let his plan happen, but I do like the idea. Okay, so… The thing is, individual factions will be better at spotting Inquisitors/Spiked among themselves, true. But that’s not just because they know who all of their members are. That really isn’t helpful to catching eliminators, in my opinion. Voting patterns aren’t going to be a huge help this game, particularly early game, just because it’s a conversion game. There’s not a team of eliminators controlling the voting - the four factions doing that will cover up anything that the eliminators try, in my opinion. Regardless of whether we know who’s on each faction. There’s only two of them right now. That’s not really enough to affect the vote, not with factions voting together and completely overpowering anything the Spiked try to do. Now, it’s true that the factions will be a little hesitant to lynch their own. But will revealing factions really help us that much in finding the Spiked among them? The reason that the factions will be better at catching their own Spiked isn’t because they know who each other are. It’ll be because they have a doc in which to talk. More talking means it’s easier to figure out what alignment they are. That’s not something that faction lists can help with. So that’s really my question: How does knowing what faction people are on help? Same thing as with spokespeople. It’s an interesting idea, but why? Aman: Not going to quote the post because it’s long and I want to address all of it, but it’s the one about Chaotics. I don’t know how I feel about you quoting me and then using that to argue against a particular playstyle. The whole point was to show that people weren’t better than each other just because they had different playstyles. That said, here’s basically how I stand on it: Every one of the categories I listed there can be used well or poorly. Chaotics can use that to great effect or not, as you point out. But every other style has the same problems: Aggressives are an obvious one. Meta’s a perfect example of a good aggressive, but there are certainly bad ones as well. (Fortunately, most of those don’t play anymore. ) On the other hand, Lurkers, a category, you’d normally say is bad, is used quite well by Alvron. No playstyle is good, and no playstyle is bad. It’s how you use that particular skill that counts. It’s just that some playstyles seem to get more flak than others because some of them (particularly Lurkers and Chaotics) tend to irritate the more talkative playstyles like Strategizer. But honestly? Everyone is free to play the game however they choose. If you want to play as a Chaotic just to have fun, and take risks and lie even when it hurts your team, that’s entirely your prerogative. Is it what I’d like you to do, or what your team would like you to do? Probably not. And you have to deal with that annoyance, if you want to play that way. But it’s still entirely your choice. So while I like the points you made in general, Aman, I think you went a bit too far in telling people how they should play. Couple points I did want to address specifically: Why would the mods have talked to him about it afterwards? This isn’t a mod problem. This is a player problem. It’s a meta problem. It’s our job to deal with it, if we think it’s necessarily. The mods don’t police our community. They’re not here to fix things like inactives or Chaotics or whatever else. They just make sure everything runs smoothly, and that’s all. It’s up to us to do the rest: as you’re doing right now with this post. You saw a problem, you addressed it, and now it’s a topic for discussion. We’re not immature little kids who have to be policed for good behavior. We can deal with our own problems, and we do. And I personally think that’s awesome. Why 19 in particular? That seems oddly specific. Technically from a different quote but relevant here: This is the difference, right here. You are in this to win. That’s your highest priority. Elodin (and Chaotics in general) are in it for the fun. Winning is secondary. So Elodin, if you don’t want to take this seriously, you don’t have to, in my opinion. And it is entirely up to you. Fairly sure that’s not in fact what Aman was arguing. The difference is really that you have control over your Chaotic side. You use it for a purpose. You ride the storm: you’re not tossed about in it. So Let Chaos Reign, if you’d like. Whatever you think will benefit your faction, and the village as a whole, best. That’s all anyone can ask for, really. People keep saying this and acting like this is just another D1 lynch where we have no information. But that’s just not true. At this point we’ve had 48 hours to strategize with our teammates, and 48 hours to talk in thread. We had an entire night turn already! That’s a bit different from the normal situation of starting D1 with no information whatsoever. Again, I’m not saying you necessarily have to have reasoning in order to vote. But I am saying that you shouldn’t assume that you have no information for voting. Because if you assume that, you might as well have no information for how much it’s going to help you. Um. The Inquisitor’s conversions are limited. At the very least, they have no more than 8 conversions, one for each Allomantic power. (Unless they had a Duralumin spike or something. Which would be rather pointless, so I seriously doubt it, but I suppose it’s possible.) Although, hm. Ren, can the Inquisitor have more than one Spike of the same metal? Better to know, I suppose. So they can’t just convert everyone. I still agree that we should be focusing on the Inquisitor, but let’s focus on the Inquisitor as they actually are, shall we? They’re plenty powerful enough without unlimited conversions too. Mostly agreed here. The “how a player feels for being killed/lynched for being good” - that’s something that happens in every game. Just usually it’s with the eliminator kill rather than the lynch. (Although there have been instances of lynching high-threat players basically just because people are so scared/paranoid about them.) No one wants to die, regardless of threat level. Are you saying we should kill off lower threat players because they’re not useful? Because that’s so much better and fairer. But lynching based on suspicion is definitely better, I’d agree. And really? I don’t want to kill dangerous players. Not to be fair to them or anything, because there’s no way to be fair about killing people. But, well, two reasons. First, as Aman said, those players will be really useful in catching the Spiked, in all likelihood. If we kill all of the analysts, the Spiked will have a much easier time pulling off a win in the fog of war that remains. In particular, in Aman’s case, he’s even focusing on the Inquisitor a lot more than the faction war anyway. So why not let him keep doing that? Could be a different story in his doc, of course, but he’ll at least be a great help towards finding the Inquisitor, which I judge to be more of an advantage than that gained by killing a high-profile player. Particularly when there are high-threat players who aren’t focused on the Inquisitor. They’re a lot more dangerous than Aman right now, in my opinion. And secondly, because the game’s a lot more interesting when I can test myself against those high-threat players, rather than just killing them all off because they’re a danger. Outwitting is much more fun than just getting rid of them altogether. This’ll probably be the last post I do this cycle, unfortunately. I’ll be on tomorrow to an extent and watching the thread, but I won’t be posting unless I see something urgent. So, if I’m going to vote… I think I’ll put it on Orlok. It’s not much suspicion, but it does seem kind of weird to me that he’s focused so much on revealing faction lists, for which I’ve found no actual benefit. If you didn't notice, Thanata already had a mistcloak, thank you very much. Here’s hoping the formatting works this time… EDIT: Rusts, so close. EDIT 10: That took way too long. EDIT 12: So my vote didn't copy over and I didn't notice until this morning...

Sandhya worked furiously that night, adding the finishing touches to Thanata's name, trying to get it done before she came in. At last, she stood up from her seat to look at it, smiling triumphantly. It was beautiful: seven silver letters, dappled almost like the mists swirling outside, each bounded by thick black strokes, with a tiny white line running between the silver and the black. She capped her ink, then picked up her various implements and packed them away. All she had to do now was wait for Thanata. Thanata crept through an alleyway, neck prickling, her stone clutched in her hand. Stones are still, and silent, and cold. Stones do not care about armies or Allomancers or Inquisitors. Stones do not feel fear. Sandhya waited, twisting a brush between her fingers idly. And waited. And waited… She frowned. It was a few hours past midnight, now. Sandhya was usually back by now. She waited another half hour, doodling on a scrap of paper, then made up her mind and rose. She walked out of the ballroom and up to Father’s study. He looked up, blinking to see Sandhya there. She never visited him. She doubted he even knew she stayed up to see Sandhya come back every night. Before she could stop herself, she blurted out, “Where’s Thanata?” “Out doing her nightly duties, I’d imagine,” he said mildly. “Really? Because she’s usually back by at least an hour ago, usually more. I don’t remember her ever being this late before.” “Well, she did have a good deal to do tonight,” he commented. “She’ll be back by morning, Sandhya. She can handle herself.” He stood, patting her awkwardly on the shoulder. “Now don’t worry. Get to bed, and I’m sure you’ll be able to see your sister in the morning.” He smiled and ushered her out the door. She stood outside, muttering to herself. “He sent her out with a lot to do tonight? With an Inquisitor on the loose and three armies at our walls? Could he be a little more considerate?” She shook her head and headed back to the ballroom to wait. Thanata would be coming back, and Sandhya knew just the perfect present after a long night out in the mists, doing whatever it was that Father wanted. Sandhya opened her eyes slowly, looking at the grains of the wood in front of her face. She slowly forced herself upright, and her eyes opened wide. Through the balcony doors, the sky was bright, and the mist had almost vanished already. She’d fallen asleep! Maybe Thanata came in and just left me sleeping? she thought, but shook her head. Thanata wouldn’t do that, and she was a light sleeper anyway. The sound of the balcony doors opening and closing would’ve woken her. Worry clenched her gut. She grabbed the piece of paper, noting with relief that she hadn’t smudged it in her sleep, and after a quick check to verify that Thanata wasn’t in her room, she threw on a cape and headed out. She looked down every street she came to, but of course there was no sign of Thanata. She wouldn’t be out in the open like that. Sandhya headed for the market. Maybe someone had seen her, or something. What else could she do, anyway? She kept glancing down alleyways until she could hear the quiet babble of the market ahead of her. Then… She faltered, and stopped, staring down a particularly dark alley. The few people on the streets before sunrise parted around her, on their way to buy or sell, but she paid them no heed. The babble slowly faded to silence. Her hand tightened slowly on the piece of paper she held, though she didn’t crumple it out of habit. Sandhya felt like there was an invisible bubble surrounding her, blocking out everything except… Except Thanata. She hung in the alleyway, eyes staring out towards the street where Sandhya stood. Her chest was a bloody mess and her mistcloak was stained in places, but her face was untouched, and for once it wasn’t cold or distant. It was haunted. Sandhya took an involuntary step forward, and another, until she was sprinting towards her sister. She halted, panting, below where her sister hung, staring upwards. She couldn’t reach Thanata’s face, couldn’t close her staring eyes, but her hand was within reach. Sandhya reached up and touched it, gently. “No,” she whispered. She didn’t hurt, not yet. It would come, she knew, but it wasn’t time to mourn yet. “No,” she said. She pried open her sister’s hand and caught the stone that fell out, along with something else that she tucked away for later. She stared at the black, smooth rock for a moment, then placed her piece of paper in Thanata’s hand in its place. She nearly broke down then, but… “No.” She turned and walked out of the alley without another glance back at her sister’s horrified face. She had an Inquisitor to kill. Meant to post this at the end of the Night turn, but yesterday was busy so I didn't get the chance to finish it. Sorry if you had any plans for RPing with Thanata, Rae. Sandhya is now free to interact with people, though, which means we can finally start RPing together! Game relevant thoughts are coming, but in a separate post and it'll be a while because this is long enough already and I multiquoted at least eight posts. >>

Sorry I didn’t come on and post again during the Night cycle. I had no internet access during the day unexpectedly. Theoretically that shouldn’t be happening again, so I’ll definitely be posting more than just RP every cycle from now on. Some comments I multiquoted from before turnover and didn’t get the chance to respond to: Either we’ll have a ton or very few. There will definitely be a ton of single-votes, though. If we wanted, we could set up a system where everyone votes for the next person down the list or whatever and no one gets lynched. Or we could use the lynch to actually try and find the Spiked/Inquisitor. I know which I’d prefer. So while bandwagons aren’t that helpful for analyzing voting, I actually disagree that they’re the least useful method of voting. Um. While the faction game certainly shouldn’t be neglected, that mindset is not going to be helpful in the least. We can’t afford to just ignore the Inquisitor and hope that they’ll die at random anyway. The earlier we get rid of the Inquisitor the better off we’ll be, because it’s a conversion role. Earlier makes things a lot easier. (Apparently that’s what happened in LG6 with Fain.) After that point, I’d be okay with people treating the Spiked as a powerful faction. Before that? That’s just asking for trouble. I’d much rather have the Inquisitor dealt with before we start killing of each other in droves. Obviously that’s not going to happen, but I’m still focusing a bit more on the Inquisitor than other factions, because I view that as the more immediate threat. Well, first, I wanted to point out that you’re making the assumption that the Spiked in fact have a kill. It’s almost certainly true, and definitely not a bad assumption, but it’s at least good to know you’re making it in the first place. And secondly, agreed, particularly on the converting being as bad as a kill. This is exactly what I argued in QF15 to keep Joe alive: a conversion is as bad as a kill. (Yes, I was evil, but my reasoning was still correct. Keeping him alive was the best decision given what the village knew.) Actually, a conversion is worse, because you’re not only taking away from the village side but also adding to the eliminator numbers. In this game it’s a little different because it’s not an outnumbering game, but even so. A dead villager is a lot better than an alive villager-turned-eliminator working against us. Particularly when they still know everything they’ve learned as a villager from their doc. I like this idea, but the issue I see is that the Inquisitor will just start killing on even-numbered nights, before she converts a Coinshot. Which could make it rather difficult to tell when she does convert one. Nyali- The problem with Coinshots and Mistborn not claiming is when they don’t claim and everyone else does, it’ll be rather obvious who they are. So essentially you’re asking everyone not to claim. Not sure that’s feasible, particularly with the information roles like Tineye and Seeker. A faction can’t use that information unless the Tineye/Seeker tells it to them, which they can’t do without claiming. This is a true faction game, true. There’s only been three of those so far: MR1, MR5, and MR7. And of those three, the closest to an eliminator faction was the Discovery faction in MR7. But I don’t think they’re the same thing. The Discovery faction wasn’t intended to be an eliminator faction. The players made it that. The Inquisitor is an intentional eliminator team, and balanced as such. Both other factions and the Inquisitor are threats, but they’re not the same kind of threat. I mean… look what an inquisitor did to the village in LG2. And that was with a village that was trying to work together. In a faction game? Obviously the situation’s not the same (we know the Inquisitor’s powers this time, and hopefully she has a smaller number of conversions), but still. That’s not exactly the same thing as just another House. In my opinion, anyway. I’m not saying we should all “join together to fight against the evil Inquisitor and put aside our differences to be friends!” because while I’m an idealist, I try to stay somewhat realistic. But… Sure, we’ll be plotting against each other in our respective docs. That’s fine. But in thread, can we try to all at least pretend we’re going after the inquisitor? Maybe it’ll even actually help us find him/her (note: I am defaulting to ‘her’ because Cessie was female and it’s easier than typing him/her the entire time). I can hope, anyway. I also disagree about revealing faction lists, but everyone’s said what I wanted to say about those already (and it’s almost one in the morning…) so I’ll refrain. (Basically, I just see no correlation between knowing faction members and an easier time catching the Inquisitor.) Wait, who do you mean by “us”? If you mean the spokespeople, the entire point would be that they’re representing their faction and that faction’s interests. If you mean everyone else, just don’t interact with the spokesperson. Have your spokesperson interact with theirs. I’m not sure what you really meant, though… Can you clarify a little? Regarding the spokesperson in general - I’m divided on it. Our doc discussed it, but I really never saw any particular advantage to the idea. It’s just an interesting thought. So I don’t know, but right now I’m leaning a little towards no because all it takes is one faction not revealing their spokesperson. Plus it puts the spokesperson in a position of power that the Inquisitor would probably love to convert. Unless someone can think of an advantage that outweighs those reasons to hold back, I think there’s no reason to. Point of order - the Inquisitor already knows which people she needs to Spike to infiltrate every faction. That is, everyone who’s not part of the two factions she’s already infiltrated. (Assuming two because it seems more likely to me that she picked someone from a different house. And best to assume the worst case scenario regardless.) So I don’t think telling her the faction lists would really help or hurt the Inquisitor much. Can’t argue with that. (And yep, I’m pushing the Inquisitor more this game. Not quite as much as usual, though, because it’s a true faction game, which is a bit different. Still, though… Leaving the backstabbing to my teammates. ) Normally on D1, this is true. But I’d argue that today it’s not. We’ve had 24 hours to interact with our teammates and get a feel for their alignments, and 24 hours in thread for intra-house discussion as well. It’d be perfectly reasonable to have a reasoned-out vote at this point. Does that mean all of the votes will be? No. But they never are. I’m not saying you shouldn’t poke-vote people. I’m just saying that it’s plausible that you could have a vote that’s not a poke at this point. Also, one other thing I wanted to bring up (before I go to bed because it’s one in the morning) - There are also some excellent parallels to LG7 in this game. In particular, the first day discussion is somewhat useful to glance through, I feel (and it had similar faction docs as well, although the faction win was only secondary in that game). This post is somewhat relevant, anyway. Might not be a bad idea to give it a read. Okay, I’m going to bed now. Sorry for not posting earlier (my sister dragged me away to watch Shield when I was halfway through writing this post >>), and particularly sorry for not posting any RP. I intended to, but… I do have to wake up in the morning. So sorry, Rae - I’ll be posting my last one tomorrow afternoon, and then we can finally RP together. Couple things need to happen first, though. EDIT: Okay, I give up. The above was supposed to refer to the quote at the top of this nested quote thing. Sorry. I'll try to fix it in the morning. Right now I want sleep. EDIT 2: HA. That took way too long to fix, but I did it!

Thanata closed the double door of the ballroom gently behind her, then turned and went up to Father's office. He glanced up as she entered. "Did you get it?" Thanata braced herself, fingering a smooth stone tucked into a pocket in her mistcloak. Still, she reminded herself. Still as stone. "No, Father." He raised an eyebrow. "Explain why I shouldn't have you lashed, then." "I ran into something on the way that I deemed more important." "More important," he said flatly. "Yes. A dead body." He scoffed, but didn't speak, so she went on to tell him what she'd found. "Let me get this straight," he said slowly. "You found a dead Allomancer in an alleyway. Killed by an Inquisitor." "Yes, sir." "And...? What use is this?" "The knowledge that there is an Inquisitor in town?" she offered. "That's not something to be ignorant about." He frowned. "I suppose. Still..." Thanata remained still as he looked at her, considering whether to lash her or not. She hadn't done what he'd asked. She had been whipped for less. Finally, he shook his head. "No need to weaken my Mistborn if there's an Inquisitor on the loose. Find out all you can about them tomorrow night, then. Ask around if any other Allomancers have gone missing." She nodded. "And finish what I asked you to do tonight, too," he said sternly. "All in the same night?" Thanata said in surprise, then caught herself. "Yes, Father." "You have appointments to keep tomorrow, I understand," he said. "I expect you to be awake for them." "Of course," Thanata said. She knew a dismissal when she heard one. And even with pewter, she did need some sleep. Without another word, she went out and up to her room, where she carefully stored away her mistcloak after taking the stone out of the pocket and putting it on her nightstand. She lay in bed awake, remembering the dead man in the alleyway and the look of horror on his face. He'd been a Smoker, she thought, judging by the color of the flakes of metal in the vials she'd found. Nothing that could help him against an Inquisitor. To be fair, she wasn't sure anything could. She closed her eyes, but his face stared back at her from beneath her eyelids, soon joined by other faces. Other corpses, some of her own making. She couldn't bear seeing that for long. After a moment, she opened her eyes and reached for the stone by her side, staring at it in the darkness with tin-enhanced eyes. She focused completely on the cold, hard blackstone. It was rounded now, from constant rubbing, but it wasn't perfectly shaped. She ran her fingers over its contours, imagining herself going into the stone, free from pain and sorrow and grief and trouble. Stone. Eventually, she likely fell asleep. She couldn't be sure: stones couldn't tell the difference between sleeping and waking. But she was still for a time, and that was enough. Sandhya closed the door to the dining room behind her and collapsed against the wall beside it for a moment in relief. She had had to ask to be excused early to get away from this particular young lordling. She'd pled a headache. She rubbed her temples. She wasn't entirely sure she didn't have a headache, after listening to him drawl on and on and on in that nasal voice. She sighed and stood again to go back to her room. After changing out of her rather uncomfortable dress into a more practical gown that was somewhat inky from when she occasionally wrote on herself rather than the paper, she gathered up her writing materials and headed down to the empty ballroom. She twirled a couple of times as she walked from the entrance of the ballroom to the dais. Coming to the ballroom meant the end of her duties and the beginning of a night with just her calligraphy, and eventually Thanata. She grinned, looking down at her nearly finished work. Thanata would love it, she knew. It was just like her. She smiled, although a little sadly. The style did fit Thanata: cold, hard, dark. Emotionless. She sat and uncapped her blackest ink. Only a few more letters to outline, and she'd be done. She stared down the hall for a moment, imagining Thanata flying through the mists, stalking the Inquisitor and courageously taking him down... Then she shook herself and went to work. Thanata crept through deep darkness, hoping she'd made the right decision. Hoping that she was going the right way. Hoping the Inquisitor wasn't standing behind her, ready to murder her... Wanted to post this before the night started, but didn't finish it in time. Oops. Actually game-relevant thoughts will be coming later. So glad this game started!

...Gamma's GMing this game... EDIT: And Wilson is modding. And Meta may be playing MR15. So.

Well, assuming enough of them don't die that it gets below that. Which is possible.

Only by killing them, I presume. And welcome! Promise not to kill you D1. Probably.

Ah, okay. That clarified almost all of my questions. To be clear, a tied vote for voting a Senator in, even if there are two spots available, will result in neither getting the seat, correct? And the Korathi Acolyte seems a bit OP in that case. They're essentially a safe role who is able to prove that beyond a doubt to one person each cycle. Your call, of course, but in my personal opinion it's a bit unbalanced. Kolo? Name will be Saoli, please. We'll see how much RP I'll do, since I'll be doing a good deal in LG23, but hopefully I can get some done.

Clarificatory questions: 1. If the Dula kill all of the Derethi but there's a majority of cultists, do the Dula still win? 2. The Korathi Acolyte doc can have anyone they choose in it, correct? Not just Korathi? (Also, I really like that idea. That'll be fun.) 3. The Senate doc is visible to everyone, but only Senators can talk in it, correct? 4. Is there a difference between a Senator and a Republican? You seem to use the terms interchangeably, but I just wanted to make sure. 5. "Senators will vote Yes-Kolo or No-Kolo on the public doc." Yes and no to what, precisely? 6. What happens in the case of a tied lynch? Are two votes required to lynch someone? What about a tied Senate election? What if the Senate can't decide who to inspect/vote on and there's a tie there? Do you require a two-vote minimum for Senate inspections/votes? 7. You say that the Gyorn must be a player who starts out as Shu-Dereth. Are there players who won't? Essentially, is there a conversion mechanic? 8. Are PMs allowed? 9. Are Senators required to reveal their identities in the doc? 10. What happens if there are only two members of the Senate and one dies? 11. If we vote multiple members into the Senate, how does that work? Just the two or three people with the most votes on them? Can you cast multiple votes for Senator? What about multiple recall votes? 12. Can a Korathi Acolyte be a Derethi Convert or a follower of the Mysteries? What about a Kesegan Monk? That's all I've got for now. This is going to be a very interesting game, though. Cannot wait.

Signing up, please! Name to come.

Don't you dare. I haven't played with either of them since QF15. (I'm not counting LG21, because Rae killed me accidentally D1. I blame you for that, Kipper. ) Plus, Rae's my RP partner! No killing my RP partner until we've had enough time for a proper heartrending grief/revenge scene. (Or a betrayal scene. If she turns out to be Spiked. Either way's fine with me.) Hmph.

Also, hey, no eliminator reveals this game. How unusual. (Not complaining, though. While reveals are fun, there have been far too many recently.) By the way, interesting decision not to make items public upon death. I'm not sure whether revealing would have been better, but this certainly made things more interesting. Wow. This... I didn't even think of this. This would have been very bad for my plan indeed. If you'd managed to have a few more players alive, that would've worked out very well indeed. o.O I... don't know what to say about the rest of the doc. I... um... wow. I knew the title said "Descent into Madness", but I wasn't expecting you to be quite that literal about it. Sorry. Well, maybe a little bit pleased. Alvron will be proud. Well... yes. Mostly me. Although I had to get someone else in so that Cloud wouldn't tie it. He made a valiant effort to defend you, so you know. Props to him for that. Good game, everyone! And particular congratulations to Joe, for getting very close to pulling it off all by himself. Your descent into madness clearly didn't impair your strategizing skills. And that's the important thing. Oh. Now I'm not playing any games until LG23 starts. And I only have one dead doc... Looks like I'm going to be read ing through all of LG4 and likely LG5 as well. Or maybe RPing several thousand words. Not sure which yet. Guess I'll just have to see. Good game, all. See you in the next one.

I can tell already by the title. And you can change that setting yourself, you know. Just switch to view only. I should probably do that for the Shade doc. There's most of the C6 writeup in there, by the way, Ripple.

Thanks! That plan... I'm glad I suggested it. I hesitated a bit, because I knew it was somewhat an abuse of the rules in the village's favor, but since Ripple didn't nix it... It worked out quite well, I must say. (Note I haven't read the mutineer doc yet) I feel sorry for the eliminators this game, though. Two inactive teammates, one of whom was lynched in the first cycle? That hurts. Plus my plan, plus the fact that I targeted you with the shade kill nearly every round.... ouch. Sorry. What Zas said. We knew for a fact that Joe was an eliminator, since he made a kill and Maill claimed the dagger kill so it couldn't have been anything but the eliminator kill. What I basically angsted over the whole time was who the second eliminator was. I kind of tricked Cloud into revealing it wasn't Elodin (oops... 'twas fun though), so it was between Sart and Maill and I couldn't decide which. Agh. But yeah, if they hadn't stopped making kills, it wouldn't have been 2 to 2. It would have been 2 to 1. An inactive 1. Props to Joe for not killing anymore, though. That was a clever move. My personal opinion on the shade kill: I loved that mechanic. It allowed me to participate in the game a little bit, even though I was dead. And it was quite fun. I like plotting. Now to read the mutineer doc...