eveorjoy

Yes, very true. But Kaladin may not be the most practical choice. If it is a matter of needing security, she has plenty of options once Kaladin takes her back to Urithtu. However, considering how the Roshar is by RoW, I don't think matrimony will be a concern. Women can do a lot on their own in Roshar. She doesn't need to remarry to solve her problems of homeless or lack of funds. In fact, if she is half as capable as both Kaladin and Lirin see her as being, she doesn't need to marry Kal for his status or money. If Laral does end up with Kal it will be for romantic reasons.

I like the idea of a Kalaral pairing. However, I don't like the idea of just because her husband is dead, Kaladin can start flirting with her. The situation is more complex than that. Before Kaladin can court Laral, he has to deal with his own issues first. He lost Tarah because he focused too much on saving people, and how losing anyone hurt him. It is a good trait to take responsibility, but because of Kal's need to help everybody: he wasn't able to help Elhokar, he had a mental breakdown in the middle of a battle, and he still has not sworn that 4th ideal. His problems make him not a good match for anyone right now, which is one of the reasons Kal and Shallan wouldn't work. I want Kaladin to end up with someone, but he needs to deal with the wars he is fighting internally and externally first. As for Laral, even if she wasn't deeply in love with Roshone, she did at least sympathize with him. Remember the tongue lashing she gave Kaladin in OB when Kaladin insulted Roshone. I think considering the woman she is, she would respectfully mourn Roshone for a time. This could actually help the relationship. If Laral is near Kaladin while he is trying to deal with his problems, she can be his friend and that could blossom into something in time. The one plus Kaladin had right now in maybe attracting Laral's attention is that Laral still admires war heroes, though she seemed more impressed with the Herdazain Mink instead of Kal. Also, she has people to lead herself. She might not have time for romance even after mourning Roshone. Could Kalaral happen? Yes and maybe in this book. However, it needs to be a slow and natural process, and most of the growth would need to be on Kaladin's part so he could handle a relationship. Personally I think if Kalaral happens it will be in the next book or the back five, However, we might see the beginning sprouts of the relationship in this book.

Gavilar might be a Batman villain.

Oh, I completely agree.

One of my most enjoyable memories of Oathbringer's pre-release was the Meme thread on the OB spoiler board here on 17th Shard. I saw a new meme on one of the threads here already, so I figured, it is time. Here are three memes I'm going to start the thread with. I'm sure you all will make better ones as the chapters come out. I look forward to seeing them.

Is it bad the second thought I had as Roshone's body hit the ground was maybe Kalaral will be a thing now? They are two very different people from who they were as children with crushes on each other. Could they be a thing? Sure, but a lot more has to happen with Kaladin before it is even a possibility. And how do we know Laral would even be interested at this point? Now RoW is a long book, and we have more long books coming. So, yeah it could happen. Or maybe Tarah will come back. Or maybe he will have a whirlwind romance with Jasnah and they will leave Roshar and become worldhoppers. Jasnah's an Elsecaller so that could happen. I know they hate each other now, but a lot of romances start that way. Yes, I am slightly a Kalnah shipper, a little bit. Seriously though, if Brandon does the romance the right way, Kalaral could be awesome.

Oh yeah. Well, actually that shows he didn't want to hurt the kid. He could have killed them both. I just don't see it as him wanting to hurt Gavinor as much as he just wanted to kill Elhokar

I don't think he even saw the kid when he killed Elhokar. He saw his enemy, killed him, and then happened to notice Kaladin there and saluted. If he had noticed the boy, I don't think Drehy and Skar would have been able to rescue Gavinor from Kholinar. So, though Gavinor might one day want revenge against him for the death of his father, I don't think Moash intended to harm the child beyond killing his father in front of his eyes. I don't think Moash meant to be directly abusive to the boy I mean, so it not quite intentional emotional abuse. Now, this will likely change as Moash/Vire manipulates things at the Tower, but for the time being Moash is not intentionally emotionally abusive.

I did. I don't trust Moash, but I don't think what he did was emotionally abusive to Kaladin, it was just more bloody revenge. Now by the end of the book I likely will hate Moash more, but at this point Galivar is worse.

So it seems like Galivar heard how much the Stormlight Fandom hates Moash and said, "Dalinar, hold my beer." I really hate Galivar now. So who do you think is the worst? You can choose someone on the list or add another character in the comments.

Yeah, but I made the meme before Oathbringer was out, so....

Yeah he would be good.

Thanks. I made that list years ago, months before Firefights released. Shia and Jennifer are too old now. I did forget Abramham was black. I think I Idris Elba would work now. I do stand by my Tia casting. Gina Torres may not have red hair, but she has the wit and strength of Tia and that is enough for me. As for Val Kilmer, he could go on a diet. Then again Mark Hamill would be awesome as Prof. He would do well when Prof is good and then he would be awesome when Prof went evil.

I guess team Iron Man wins. Ironically, I was team Cap when their movie came out. Now I agree with Tony.

Gives "Unite them" a whole new meaning.

I am a big Kaladin fan girl, though Adolin is now tied with him after this book, but I understand why he was diminished. I don't think Kaladin is supposed to be the main character of the series. One of the main characters, yes, but not the central character. Sadly, he was taking this spot. In WoR he stole the spotlight for half the book and had a greater impact on the overall plot, yet it was supposed to be Shallan's book. In fact his character arc in WoR is in many respects more complete in than Shallan's. As for Dalinar, the other main protagonist of the series, he was barely in WoR and failed far more than Kaladin did in Oathbringer. And don't get me started on how Shallan and Dalinar came across in WoK. Kaladin needed to be rescued by others for once and this is important for his progression. Leadership is not doing everything for everyone all the time. A mark of a good leader is that the people under him know how to do their job and support the whole. This is the reason Bridge Four needed to shine in this book as well. So with Shallan, Dalinar, and Bridge Four growing, Kaladin's part is going to naturally be smaller. Kaladin needs to be rescued to show how far the others have come. That doesn't make him any less, but I agree it made is progression stall. And that isn't a bad thing. Dalinar progression stalled in WoR and look what we got from him in this book. Brandon is setting up something great for Kaladin later and at the same time is showing us the results of his efforts. Lopen and Teft accending to full knighthood is a credit to their captain's leadership. And though I am a bit annoyed with his fight with Amaram, it is a beautiful thing a when Kaladin says "Bridge Four" and then Rock saves him. However, I agree teasing the fourth ideal of the Windrunners and then not having Kaladin say it is very unsatisfying. I understand why Brandon made this choice. First off, fans were complaining that Brandon was becoming too predictable with Kaladin swearing oaths. Kaladin would be injured in some way, almost near death. Everyone else would die without him. Kaladin swears oath, levels up, and saves the day. Having him swear the oath here would have been more of the same. Secondly, progressing as a Radiant was becoming too easy. I think with Szeth's part in this book, as he was progressing through the Skybreakers, Brandon was showing us something about the oaths. The first three can be reached in a short time, but fourth oath can take a lot longer. It's not uncommon for it to take years. Szeth's will need to go on a quest before he can level up and Shallan didn't pass the fourth level until she accepted terrible truths about herself. She was at level three for several years. The fact that Kaladin has an idea of what the fourth oath is already is a remarkable thing by itself and the failures in this book help him realize the words. Still, just knowing what needs to be done does not give someone the ability to do it. Dalinar knew he needed to unite people without conquering them in the first book. He didn't really learn how to do that until this book. Kaladin will need to learn something more before he can swear the fourth oath. Having him learn it in this book would have been too easy. Finally, we have two more books for oath swearing. Holding off the fourth oath of the Windrunners makes narrative sense, especially because this is the book where Kaladin gets saved. If Kaladin said the fourth oath now he would be too powerful too fast. I agree the Amaram fight is also frustrating because we have waited three books for it and it was a bit underwhelming. However, I think I know what Brandon was going for. Kaladin starts his vendetta with Amaram after he helplessly watches his men die at Amaram's command. Now Kaladin is saved from Amaram by his men because he made them strong enough to do so. There is a beautiful symmetry in that. The problem with that fight is Amaram. He hasn't interacted with Kaladin at all in Oathbringer. Their is more conflict between Dalinar and Amaram than Kaladin and Amaram in this book. Kaladin has moved beyond him. He didn't think about Amaram once the entire book. This fight would have had more of an impact in WoR when Kaladin still wanted to fight him. So when the moment comes Amaram is just another bad guy to kill. Oh he is scary and powerful, but so are all the rest of Odium's minions. Part of me wanted Amaram to live so we could see more of him and maybe have that fight I wanted in WoR, but that moment has passed. Amaram is a disappointment as a character. When Rock killed him, I thought their goes the Sons of Honor. Maybe he was always as empty and fake as he projected to others. So the fight was unsatisfying. Well get hyped for Moash VS. Kaladin. I have feeling that will be an amazing heartbreaking fight. Don't worry. Kaladin is still important. He just got to take it a bit easier in this book.

Spoiler for part 2. In the spirit of Jasnah's suggestion of how to deal with the Heralds.

So it appears we will get it went we expect to get it. Good.

I wonder how many memes we will have after we read the whole book. Here are my last ones for a while.

And the winners are Kaladin and Shallan. Well 5 of you got it right. I was not expecting Shallan, nor the person who showed up at the end of her chapter. There better be a hug scene later. A Jasnah interlude would be nice. I can't wait for Oathbringer.

I still think it is Dalinar, but it appears we will not know until later at Brandon's book signing. I bet that question would earn me a RAFO.

Well, if she does return, the chapter better not end on her just walking in. I storming better see here hug her mother. After everything Navani went through in WOR, I want to see a fleshed out reunion. Now the chapter can end on a message from Jasnah. But if she opens an Oathgate and arrives in Urithru, I want to read about some hugs.