Darkness

I hate to necro a topic, but it's more efficient than starting my own. Rereading through the Way of Kings, when Kabsal speaks of Dawnsingers as kindly spren who were sent by the Almighty. Healers. I had the thought that perhaps Cusicesh and the Stormfather are 2 of them. "Dawnshards" could refer to any other spren that were of similar distinction, yet yielded themselves to become tools, and subsequently perished after the Recreance. This actually fits quite nicely with why the Stormfather is so set on not becoming a shardblade (ie. dawnshard); he has seen others of his kind perish. Extending this even further, perhaps only the Bondsmiths could form a Nahel bond with dawnsingers? I'm not sure where I want to fit the Nightwatcher into this... theory. Since the reread, I've actually been thinking she may be something more primal than dawn singers, even more ancient. I've speculated that it may be her powers that allowed the role of the Heralds. tWoK says that the voidbringers are a natural reaction to the Almighty's goodness, to balance Him. Only men can truly bring good into the cosmere through their choosing good over evil. As mythological as the source may be, there may be some sense in saying that balance must be maintained. That's my logic in why the Nightwatcher has to bring a curse for every blessing. Back to the Heralds, I'm currently thinking that the Nightwatcher somehow assisted in the formation of the Oathpact by giving the Heralds the power to fight the desolations and hold back Odium, but had to balance it with the curse of being tormented. When the Heralds (who willingly chose to be part of the Oathpact) broke and abandoned Taln, they could leave their responsibility and part of their power (Honorblades) behind, but they couldn't just leave the curse, and it has tormented them cognitively and spiritually instead of physically, leaving them as shades of their former selves. That's all guesswork, and I have no proof, and very little base for it, but it seems like it would build a great story, and it's at least believable. Isn't it? Now's when I get corrected in my suppositions and learn something awesome

Chapter 12. Page 221 in the soft cover, just before Dalinar's viewpoint. "Well, technically, this time it was his fault. But it wasn't usually. This was just an oddity" No period at the end of the paragraph.

I had a few ideas for what Bondsmiths are for (but I can't figure out how it might relate to their surges): Firstly, I'm pretty sure that Heralds and the oathpact cycle came before the Knights Radiant, so while the Bondsmiths may help in many ways, they are not entirely fundamental to the oathpact. Secondly, the only Bondsmith we know (Dalinar), is now bonded to the Stormfather (splinter of Honor) and did not receive a live shardblade. Tangentially, we don't know what his specific ability is yet, relating to Shallan's memory trick, but I have a couple of thoughts: 1. Forging and maintaining Knightly bonds. i. Bonds between Knights and their squires? Perhaps Bondsmiths enabled the training of aspiring Knights-radiant? ii. Bonds between Radiants and Orders? "But as for Ishi’Elin, his was the part most important at their inception; he readily understood the implications of Surges being granted to men, and caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws." This seems to imply that the Bondsmiths (as Ishar's patron order) were involved in 'thrusting organization' upon the orders. It sounds like the Bondsmiths may have magical means of holding the Knights accountable to said precepts and laws. (Maybe they crafted something into the Nahel bond? Who knows...) iii. More advanced stages of the Nahel bond? Perhaps as a way of regulating the Knights' power, the Bondsmiths knew each of the ideals and would bestow them (seems unlikely since the ideals were mostly instinctual for Kaladin and Shallan), or perhaps the fourth and fifth 'levels of Radiance' can only be activated with help from a Bondsmith? 2. Relating to the quotes below: i. Pay close attention to the wording: First, 'this order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones'. Not a sub-entity, but equals, perhaps advisors or spiritual leaders. Second (and more importantly), 'Their spren was...' For me, this argues that all Bondsmiths (up to 3 of them) bonded the same spren! The Stormfather does seem to me to be a very specific, particular sort of spren. Perhaps their ability is to be the link between (or inherently understand the intent of) Honor (the Stormfather is the largest sentient splinter of Honor that we've seen) and Roshar's people (Radiants and otherwise)? They could then more readily provide moral and spiritual guidance related to that shardic intent. ii. The different stratagem related to the Bondsmith's could be either a different way to destroy the Voidbringers, or a different way altogether of dealing with the threat. On this I have little, except maybe the Bondsmiths could find a way to bind the Voidbringers into a less destructive state (whether through removing the bonds between Parshendi and stormspren, stuffing the Voidbringers' spren into little black stones, or some other means entirely, I don't know). —From Words of Radiance, chapter 13, page 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious. —From Words of Radiance, chapter 28, page 3 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So Melishi retired to his tent, and resolved to destroy the Voidbringers upon the next day, but that night did present a different stratagem, related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; and being hurried, he could make no specific account of his process; it was related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address.

Knowing how important the character's convictions and "cognitive paradigm" is in the magical system of Roshar (and the greater Cosmere), it isn't too much of a stretch to think that shard/honorblades become ornamented through the users' opinions of them. For instance, the Heralds were understandably "awesome", and knew it, so their blades reflected that. The Shin are generally referred to as a more rustic, simple people, so it could make sense that any blades they hold became more simple over time. Especially if the blades were regarded as a tool to be used occasionally, but nothing more spectacular. WoB says that honorblades can change appearance slowly over time, so that may have happened to Szeth's honorblade.

Sorry, I don't want to derail the topic. I also think that Hoid was offered a piece of Adonalsium and turned it down. My personal pet-theory is that it's because he held Adonalsium as a whole for at least a time, and was repulsed by the idea of accepting a 'tainted' part of his former 'pretty rock'.

I agree that Hoid wasn't a spren, but weren't there spren before the shattering? It's been confirmed that there are adonalsium-spren. (Which is interesting in itself. Spren are commonly thought of as physical manifestations of cognitive concepts. Does this mean that someone out there is/was thinking enough about Adonalsium that Adonalsium-spren appeared? Are they still alive/are people still thinking about Adonalsium?)

I posted my Sazed/Harmony theory in another place before I read this thread, but I'm going to modify a little thanks to WeiryWriter. "The main effect it's having on Harmony right now is his inability to act sometimes, because his two sides are pushing, and so he is having trouble being proactive. It'd take a long time before it really becomes manifest, but he's had several hundred years, so it's starting to have an effect." "Sazed" -as we know him from Mistborn- is slowly becoming Harmony. But as time goes on, will his 2 sides (Ruin/Preservation) merge so that he finds it easier to be proactive, or will they stay 2 separate intents, with Sazed changing to become a combination of them? I guess what I'd ask is, will Sazed become two diametrically opposed intents, or do the shards actually merge into one over time? It's interesting to me because Sazed as a Terrisman would be interested in the Cosmere from an observatory standpoint, but if his 2 shards actually combine, I could see the intent Harmony (eventually) actively working towards bringing the Cosmere into alignment with its intent. I'm picturing Harmony working to bring any splintered shards back into harmony with themselves (realigning), bringing the shards of Adonalsium back into harmony with each other, and otherwise working towards Cosmeric (Cosmeric is now a thing, instead of universal) unification. Harmony could either want balance (stasis), or unity (a harmonious state). Humor me one last time. It would be really cool (and would totally reinvent the story every time) if Harmony were to, in his hypothetical quest for shardic unity, merge another shard with himself, and then slowly change into another shardic intent! We could have the whole Cosmere story arc telling us about how Sazed grows and develops as a character through his successive merging of shardic intents. Sorry if I ramble, it's more fun that way Oh, Ps. *Inactivity* ... sorry. Edit: Nope, I'm wrong, Inactiveness is apparently a thing. Learn something new every day ...check!

I would be interested to know how much "Sazed" -as we know him from Mistborn- has been changed into Harmony. I think at this point I consider him a mesh of 2 personalities, Sazed and shardic intent. But as time goes on, won't he become more enigmatic from our PoV? After all, we all know him as a Terrisman, but will he slowly become a brand new character due to the influence of his shard? Or maybe with the 2 equal and opposite shards Ruin and Preservation he can maintain his personality and simply adopt the power? It's interesting to me because, theoretically, Sazed would be interested in the Cosmere from a theological and scholastic standpoint, but I could see the intent Harmony working towards bringing the Cosmere into alignment with its intent. What I'm picturing is Harmony working to bring any splintered shard back into harmony with itself (realigning), bringing the shards of Adonalsium back into harmony with each other, and otherwise working towards Cosmeric (Cosmeric is now a thing, instead of universal) unification. Harmony could either want balance (stasis), or unity (a harmonious state). Humor me one last time. It would be really cool (and would totally reinvent the story every time) if Harmony were to, in his hypothetical quest for shardic unity, merge another shard with himself, and then slowly change into another shardic intent! We could have the whole Cosmere story arc telling us about how Sazed grows and develops as a character through his successive merging of shardic intents. Sorry if I ramble, it's more fun that way

This kind of makes me wonder if one of the undiscovered shards is "chaos" or "disorder", and we'll see harmony merge with that next

Happy 5,000th post, Kobold King

WoB says that out of all of his "non-sliver/shard characters", Kelsier-with-atium would win in a fight, at least until Vin got a bunch more experience and also had atium. With that in mind... would Hoid beat Kelsier-with-atium? I guess a more basic question is, "does Hoid count as a non-sliver/shard character?"

In regards to the shard that just wants to hide, it's already been touched on in this thread, but I like "mystery".

Here's what decided my vote: People purposefully hunt whitespines, this means they intend to survive and possibly hunt again. Nobody in their right mind sets out warg-hunting unless they can't avoid it. Only seasoned warriors stand a decent chance against a warg, but people like Roshone think they can go out and take a whitespine down? 3rd party measuring stick in play, I vote warg.

Actually, I proposed that one back on Nov. 27, 2013 and was promptly shot down "because he is arrogant enough to believe he doesn't need it to do what he wants." Seriously though, I was thinking of him going around to separate worlds to collect little bits of his former self. I haven't found anything conclusively against this theory, but I think it is becoming less and less likely. Also, I've seen the WoB saying Hoid does not currently possess a Shard, but I haven't seen the other one. If it says 'Hoid never held a Shard', then that is easy enough… Adonalsium was not a Shard, it was a Whole.

I volunteer as tribute. If people would like me to, I could create a separate profile with another email address (so as not to hoodwink the readers of my theories into believing me) to accrue reputation points and report on exactly when the boundaries occur between reps. This could be much more entertaining than simply asking (pfft! Who does that?!) And, I'd even let the esteemed 17th sharders pick my profile name

Just to add, not sure if this has been covered… Allomancy could easily provide lightning-fast reflexes. Atium, bendalloy, electrum, heck even tin and pewter together could feasibly do it. It is less likely that he would actually be burning the metals at that moment, but it's possible.

[Jokingly] Firstly, Szeth is adamant that he already lost his soul. [/Jokingly] Secondly, Nightblood consumes investiture. On Nalthis, that means Breath (part of Endowment). On Roshar, does that now mean Stormlight? Or will Nightblood actually be able to consume spren (part of Honor/Cultivation/Odium)? That would be truly be 'freaky'. [Jokingly again] Maybe Nightblood will end up being the hero of the Cosmere when he consumes Odium to destroy evil!

Those quotes made me think that maybe Shardplate is actually from another world. Perhaps the one the heralds came from. Heralds, having selected/permitted certain Rosharans to become Radiants, helping to protect the world and prepare for desolations, returned to their world intermittently to procure shard plate for the Knights Radiant. Spoiler for space saving:

WoB Q: If Nightblood were on Roshar would he be a Shardblade? A: Yes, they are exactly the same thing. He is a Shardblade that is twisted and is a lot more powerful than normal. Brandon has also commented that Nightblood could consume storm light as he consumed breath, but it is a little more difficult when crossing magic systems. So let's have it! What are your theories on how Nightblood will be changed in adapting to life on Roshar? Of course he won't be a 'normal' shard blade because he isn't just a spren, he's fundamentally different; infused with shard power, but not wholly made of it. I think first of all he will keep his intent to 'destroy evil' (which will lead to some very conflict-ridden scenes with Szeth, who isn't sure what to believe anymore and is somewhat of a wild card - even thinking of himself as evil most of the time). Secondly, he will be able to cut and be blocked physically due to his physical nature, but will retain the ability to drain the shardic portions of people (like spren cutting the soul, Nightblood will drain it from a distance), thus making him more powerful than a regular shard blade As a side note: I find it fascinating that Nightblood is able to drain shardic powers like Breath and storm light, and also feed on life-force, which is somewhat different (drabs are still alive without Breath, but the life force of humans on Nalthis, for one, was created with a little bit of a shard (Preservation)). What does that say about the relationship between life and shards? Finally, he will not have the ability to disappear into the cognitive (or wherever the shard blades go) realm and be summoned back like a regular spren. He's an originally physical creation, and must remain that way. I say all this mostly because I think Nightblood is going to remain mostly the same as we know him from Warbreaker, because Brandon originally wrote Warbreaker with the intent of providing us with an introduction to Nightblood and Vasher. His powers will probably remain familiar, but just tweaked to the new magic system of storm light. This said, he is infused with shardic power. Spren of Roshar are basically living ideas that are given life by shardic power. Spren become more cognizant the longer they are bonded to a human. If Nightblood can bond with Szeth (a pretty big if) the way spren bond with Radiants, I think he would follow the pattern of becoming more aware and cognizant due to the permeating influences of Cultivation and Honor. That would make for a fascinating character development!

now that we know shard blades can take other forms, I could definitely see shard arrows becoming a thing, but only with living shards. Of course, the user would have to will the spren to remain an arrow. It would be much more useful than I previously thought because the 10 heartbeat clause would not be in effect. You could just fire as soon as your spren returns from your previous shot. Would that even work? Have we seen what happens when Kaladin lets go of weapon-Syl? Is it the same as with a normal shard blade? Of course, this begs the question, why does Kaladin even have to be using Syl in the fight against Szeth? Why couldn't she just turn into a half-blade, half-spren, and fly around on her own to take out Szeth? It would be much easier if she didn't have to protect Kaladin at the same time. So I suppose it must not be possible for Nahel bound spren to remain in physical (weapon/shield/whatever shard) form if they aren't in direct contact with their shard bearer, or otherwise cognitively commanded to remain that way. That actually makes me wonder why dead shards can remain if commanded to, and only when commanded to. What's going on there?

I wonder if the continent slowly rotates too… that could mess with all sorts of locative efforts.

Here's my question. If Shardplate were just a spren of 'lesser' consciousness, then why would it need gemstones to fuel it? I guess it could have been jimmied up by humans after the Recreance, but what need would the original plate have of gemstones if it were actually a living spren? And then of course, why wouldn't plate scream? If plates and blades are both dead spren, then the only meaningful difference I see is that the plate has gemstones, and the plate can still regenerate and change form to suit (no pun intended) the wearer. OH, and plate doesn't disappear when dropped, or seem to require bonding time. Then again, perhaps plate is a lesser spren, and the bond just wasn't broken like it was with the blades… the Radiants didn't drop their plate! And maybe the previous 'glowiness' of plate came from the Nahel bond? I don't know. Too many variables and guesses.

WoB says that the shardblades aren't in a transition state like Elantrians during the Shaod.

Just as a mention, the land mass on Roshar seems to show a clockwise rotational residue. If the effect were natural, it would indicate that (since storms in the Southern hemisphere spin CW) the Highstorm would have to be continent-sized to make a CW looking geological effect, but little else. But no… the Highstorm only blows East to West, even in the northern parts of the continent, which still shows land residue West to East, or there is something else causing the geological rotation pattern beyond Highstorms or tectonics (ruled out by Brandon). Just a tidbit. Following the 'draining into purelake/something' idea, this does actually mimic a spiral-galaxy-spinning-into-black-hole pattern. Also Aimia doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the continent, as has been pointed out, but the trail it leaves suggests that it is fairly ancient… perhaps even as old as the main continent. Who knows, maybe Aimia was the plug that got taken out of the purelake and set down off the west coast, making all the Shadesmar water drain out into Roshar's purelake, tugging along Roshar's land in a CW spiral? Probably not. However, it is pretty likely that the shape did not just occur naturally. That would suggest it is by design (humor me). Roshar's landmass may have been designed (by Adonalsium?) to reflect the shape of the Cosmere galaxy, to serve as a travel hub between worlds (like the similarity of shape powered Aon use in Elantris). The gateways were built (at locations correlating to the positions of planets in the Cosmere) on Roshar to facilitate movement on the continent between 'planetary hubs', and then people were placed on Roshar to tend the planet (humans aren't native to Roshar). Adonalsium's shattering and Odium's coming messed all that up, but eventually everyone will be able to travel around the Cosmere via Roshar! Yay! Also, I found the Shadesmar : Roshar equivalents rather interesting, but inconsequential: Nexus of Truth : Endless Ocean (sounds like something the Cryptics would say [insert pun about 'depth' here]) Nexus of Transition : Reshi Isles Expanse of the Broken Sky : Steamwater Ocean Expanse of the Vapors : Ocean of Origins Nexus of Imagination : Southern Depths Again inconsequential: the colored endpaper of Roshar has a border of 10-pronged starbursts organized into groups of either 10 or 5. Finally, has anyone translated the Glyphs around the compass and on the bordering of the black/white map of Roshar?

If that is a Dustbringer ideal, then they would definitely hit it off with Nightblood! I wonder if a sword can become a Radiant…? ;-)