Darkness

Ooo! One question though... I get that he was standing right overtop of Elhokar when he held the Chasmfiend's leg up and he was within range to inhale that Stormlight, why wouldn't he have drained his own gems before Elhokar's? And it definitely would have helped if they had remarked that the spheres in their pouches were dun after

Except according to the Stormfather, the Everstorm is something "new, but of ancient design". Could be that it happens every Desolation, but I sort of doubt it. Mostly because the Heralds looked at massive rips in the land an thought 'good job Dustbringers' and not 'Stormforsaken Everstorm!'. I think they would have at least remarked in passing on the widespread devastation that the Everstorm would bring. That said, they don't really mention the Highstorms either. Were those around at the time of the last Desolation? Or is that something that developed as a valve to Honor's power after Tanavast died? I'm pretty confident the unmade (at least 9 of them) were around between present time and the last Desolation. I'm not sure if they would have been around between other Desolations. I currently like the idea that they mirror the Heralds, and only Moelach is active since Nalan reclaimed his Honorblade.

I can't help but feel the unmade are connected to the Heralds. It would be interesting to know if the Thrill was around before the previous Desolation (i.e. when all the Heralds were in Damnation). WoB says the Oathpact isn't as broken as the Heralds think it is, but maybe since 9 of the Heralds remained, 9 of the Unmade can too, and are only as active as the Heralds. From the way the characters speak of it, I get the feeling the Thrill was around long before Gavilar's expedition. Maybe it came into effect when Nalan went back for his Honorblade?

Re: To everyone addressing my post. I'm going to try to address these excellent points with as little hand-wavery as possible (caveat: we are dealing with Nalan, who is almost certainly thinking irrationally in one way or another). Nightblood himself has some rudimentary 'quirks' that could be interpreted as abilities (draining investiture, mind speaking, etc.), and he will probably function with Szeth in some capacity of bonding, but we know so little about how. I wouldn't presume to say Szeth will suddenly be able to inhale Stormlight and Surgebind. After all, and I don't think Nalan by himself can grant any powers. I don't think Nalan would see giving Nightblood to Szeth as contradictory to his goals. Also, by the end of Words of Radiance, he has heard about the void bringers returning, and it's possible that he knows Szeth will need the firepower. Odium's spren weren't around until after Odium had been around Roshar for awhile. As per WoB, Odium doesn't like investing himself into a particular world, and he's done it on Roshar partially because he's been trapped in the system for so long and couldn't prevent the natural leak of power. Accordingly, I believe the Oathpact to have been made after Odium started trying to wipe Roshar clean, but before Odium was significantly invested in the world. When the Oathpact was formed (and the Heralds called), it could have been a way to temper Odium's relentless attacks on Roshar, and the initial desolations didn't end themselves, but now the game has changed a little. I would agree that void binding and especially the Everstorm would draw power away from the main body of Odium. The spren would have ample opportunity to see Herald-Surgebinding in action if Odium was attacking Roshar before the Oathpact was made. That point depends a lot on the time frame of these events. If Honor set up the Oathpact in response to Odium, that means that Odium was likely already trying to take out Roshar (or the Tranquiline Halls ), and the Heralds could have been fighting with Honorblades even before the Oathpact defined 'Desolations'. To your point about the visions: Again, the game has changed. Tanavast sent that message to broadcast on the event of his death. The Oathpact was failing, Honor was dying, and he had to be getting desperate. He actually refined his message a bit when he said something to the effect of, "I can't see into the future as well as Cultivation can, but you may be able to succeed if you get Odium to appoint a champion, and then defeat the champion." So Honor was probably planning a last stand scenario. A prolonged war would favour Odium since Honor is dead, and so the best option would be a show of force (Knights Radiant) to manoeuvre Odium into appointing a champion. Odium, for his part, probably wants to be done with Roshar once and for all, since he hates investing portions of himself, and wants to regather himself, so he may take the bait to hurry the pace of the game a bit. I see Honor risking it all by re-founding the Knights Radiant as part of a post-humous last-ditch effort. The Jasnah and Shallan points were addressed, though I would add that Jasnah had the entire world fooled (with the partial exception of Taravangian - he had to see Jasnah soulcasting to know for sure... even with his diagram he only had a suspicion).

Maybe the Heralds always have a set amount of time to be on Roshar (random example: 50 days). Once 50 days is up, they have to go back, or Odium can send another wave of 'whatever' into Roshar. If they clear the enemy forces in 20 days, all power to them, they get an Earth month of vacation. If they don't get the job quite done, then the Heralds had to clean up. I would think it more likely that the Heralds and Odium's forces had the same set amount of time to contest Roshar. The Heralds' job would be to protect however many people they could, while Odium's purpose would be to kill everyone in that time. The Oathpact could be Honor saying, "I'll give you access to do what you can with the planet for this much time, and in return you don't bug them for all the other time. Oh, and you can entertain yourself with these 10 volunteers while you wait. Better yet... when they break and go back to Roshar, then you can renew your planetary play time and go with them."

42 is always the answer. If Preservation were to have chosen to hang around Nalthis after the shattering of Adonalsium instead of Scadrial, and was the only Shard in that Solar System, assuming the people on Nalthis originated with sDNA attuned to Preservation, would Nalthis' magic system have developed based on Breaths, Metals, or something else? In other words, how much does the magic system of a world depend on the following: i. The specific Intent of the resident Shard(s). ii. The planet itself. iii. The sDNA/physical/cognitive paradigm of the resident people. Since Braize, Ashyn, and Roshar are all in the Greater Rosharan system, are they all somewhat exposed to Cultivation, Honor, and Odium's 'magical power aura', and would a Surgebinder have any magical ability on the other planets? Would it manifest any differently? (I'm thinking of when the Heralds go to Damnation (Braize?)... would they be able to use their Honorblades at all?)

I think the major problem with looking into crossing magic from different planets is that Brandon is trying to keep his books relatively accessible for the average reader. Let's face it, anyone reading this thread is beyond his mark a little bit. We're going to keep buying and reading his books regardless of, or maybe because of, how many tiny, mysterious Cosmere-crossing easter eggs there are. But I don't think they'll go further than that at least until the third Mistborn trilogy, and maybe not even then. I mean, Hoid obviously does some in scene stuff that is mystical even to native magic users, but beyond him, everything "big" has been fairly explainable in-world (by in-world, I mean 'in the series that is devoted to that Shardworld'). I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying that for important plot points and characters it's more likely to be the... casually obtainable... explanation.

I'm just keeping this near the top of the list so Peter will be more likely see it Maybe it's worth getting pinned?

I think Shard may have just been showing his/her (/it? I guess Shard's don't really have genders, just most of the holders do) aptitude for spell checking

Just to play Nalan's advocate here for a second. Maybe he isn't wrong about Surgebinding causing Desolations. Obviously the amount of power expended by Surgebinding is fairly minute compared to the overall power of Honor. However, it is feasible that enough Surgebinders could cause a noticeable diminishing of Honor's power, like when Preservation's power was expended to create a little something extra in each Scadrian. I would postulate that Nalan's assumptions 'could be' as follows: 1. The Oathpact is a seal on Odium's influence over Roshar. It protects Roshar for as long as certain conditions are held (i.e. the Herald(s) go back after Desolations, etc.) 2. The Oathpact is fuelled by Honor. It is Honor's power that keeps Odium at bay while conditions are met. 3. Surgebinding uses a portion, however small, of Honor's power (Stormlight). 4. The burning of Stormlight exhausts Honor's power by small increments, reducing the energy Honor puts into the Oathpact. 5. The weakening of the Oathpact allows Odium to exert a push into Roshar, causing a Desolation. Desolations escalate as Surgebinders use their powers to counter the enemy, further weakening the Oathpact. 6. The Desolations end up killing a certain amount of Surgebinders, which naturally causes a shift toward less Surgebinding. The Oathpact slowly reinstates itself. 7. The Heralds have to leave once the Desolation is done (because it's part of the Oathpact, or because they use Stormlight less efficiently, draining the Oathpact at greater amounts than normal Surgebinders) lest they cause another Desolation. Ishi seems to believe the former. 8. The cycle begins anew once a sufficient amount of Surgebinding is done and the Oathpact is weak enough for Odium to push. As a side note, Nalan is not hunting the other Heralds to prevent the Desolations. They left their Honorblades. He is only hunting actively Surgebinding individuals. Szeth is not a threat because Szeth is not a Surgebinder without an Honorblade. Also, the Knights Radiant could have been the Heralds' attempt at managing the use of Surgebinding, and making Surgebinders more efficient at using Stormlight, draining the Oathpact in safe, controlled levels. Nalan could have anticipated the eventually failure of the system, and thus been hesitant to sponsor an order. The Knights may have eventually realized that Odium's forces (like the stone-animating spren) were growing more powerful as there were more Knights/Surgebinders and initiated the Recreance as a means of countering the drain on Honor. I'm not saying I agree with Nalan, but his position could be logical, and he could actually be right in his own way.

I thought the Stormfather was the cognitive ideal of the Almighty (Honor). Kind of like flamespren are similar to the cognitive ideal of 'fire'. He's obviously developed sentience, but I figured he was initially defined by men's idea of the Almighty, like Nightwatcher is for Cultivation. If that true, then it could make more sense of why Syl and Wyndle call the Stormfather and Nightwatcher 'Father' and 'Mother' respectively, and why the Stormfather calls Syl 'daughter' in return. The Stormfather is basically programmed to be like the Almighty, so he would see honorspren -at least a little bit- as offshoots of himself.

Awesome responses to all my deepest desires haha seriously though, thanks everyone! That makes much more sense now.

Yeah... I was actually the main proponent of that one, but it didn't really go anywhere. Here's the link from April 2014's discussion, where a bunch of other people dance around the theory, at the end I reference my original thought from back in November 2013 My thoughts haven't changed on the matter, but I kind of killed the thread, so I gave up talking about it haha Sorry if I kill your thread too

Rock and Kaladin saw little spren when he was practising a full lashing of a rock to the chasm wall. WoR p. 152, "Spren," Rock said, pointing. "They pull the stone against the wall."... Kaladin walked over and joined them. He could make out the tiny purple spren if he looked closely. "They're there, Sig," Kaladin said. Of course, this leads to a similar question as for any spren. Do the spren hold the rock to the wall, or are they just attracted to the change in gravity? I would guess the latter. Same as flamespren and windspren are attracted to their forces. As a concrete example, when Kaladin learns how to 'fall' through the air, he ends up attracting a bunch of windspren. Probably the windspren aren't actually causing the air currents that buoy him up. Rather, they are attracted to the breezes he is causing with his passage. Anyway, I don't get why people say the skyeel/chasmfiend spren are gravityspren. I've seen this going around a bunch. The arrow shaped spren just don't seem the same as the tiny purple spren discussed in the WoR passage. Could someone elaborate on this for me?

Maybe there are 10 Dawncities that are laid out in glyph-shapes symbolizing the 10 types of KR spren and detailing the bond progression for each order. The cities themselves are the 'code', written by dawn shards, wielded by Ishi and possibly others? Just a thought, I don't know that I subscribe to it.

Hoid already is a spren. A Hoidspren that appears whenever something interesting is happening in the Cosmere.

I'm reserving this space for a later date because I am sure I've seen WoBs about this recently. I found the quotes that led me to think this way, but they are rather ambiguous... as always lol DUSTINCan a Herald's blade/equipment be um....adopted? I only ask because Dalinar seems to be lacking one and that Herald at the end did kick the bucket in his capital and he's gonna need more than armor when Szeth shows up. BRANDON SANDERSON (GOODREADS)Someone who is not himself or herself a Herald can indeed use one of the Honorblades. QUESTIONCan someone bond more than one Honorblade? BRANDON SANDERSON Honorblade? You can't bond an Honorblade, though it can be given to you. Shardblades, however, come from a spren bond and it is possible to bond more than one. FOOTNOTELater clarified, Brandon misunderstood the question. One may be bound to multiple Honorblades. So overall, a non-Herald can use an Honorblade, but can't bond one. I'm not sure if the quote means 'nobody' can bind an Honorblade, but I would contend that the Honorblades currently can't be bound - simply because they are already bound to the associated Herald. This is supported by the footnote of the second quote, which could be a case of a Herald's spiritual connection to the blade being severed, and then someone who already has an Honorblade bond taking up that second bond. However, if the footnote was not written verbatim, this could just be a case of "One may use multiple Honorblades", and the transcriber just put in 'bound' because that's how they thought of it. A third case could be where the Honorblades can't be bound period, but rather can only be 'given' directly by Honor. This 'giving' could be an absolute one-to-one ratio, with no potential of anyone else bonding an Honorblade since Honor is now dead. Others can still use however many Honorblades they collect, but they can't claim full ownership of the Honorblade. I personally don't think this option is likely, but I like to be thorough.

How about "Cracked"? We could call persons with the correct pattern of soul fractures "Cracked" - meaning one who has the potential to have the cracks filled in and access investiture. I personally would find it very ironic and amusing if Kelsier "Cracked" when he snapped allomantically (please note that "Snapped" is a term from Scadrial, specific to only allomancy, and is not necessarily accurate since allomantic abilities come from fissures in the soul [which I interpret to be gaps in sDNA where investiture can get a foothold], and not a complete snapping of the soul) at the Pits of Hathsin. Overseer - "Who's that?" Laborer - "Kelsier milord." Overseer - "What is he doing?" Laborer - "I don't rightly know... he's Cracked, that one is!" Wow, I've apparently stayed up past my bedtime if that's what passes for humour.

Good point! I do wonder though... Kaladin seems to be able to intake Stormlight without being in direct contact with Syl (as long as he holds to his ideals). Would Radiants be able to have some abilities (enhanced reflexes, ability to take in Stormlight - no I'm not letting it go yet lol) without being in direct contact with their Honorblade? I mean, there is some funky stuff going on with how Honorblades are bound vs. wielded - which I've addressed in a bunch of other threads recently, so I don't want to be a broken record here - so I think it's feasible that there could be multiple levels of powers associated with the Honorblades. For example, simply having a bond to an Honorblade could give you super-reflexes and let you intake Stormlight (from Lopen not being near Kaladin at the end of WoR, I assume you don't have to be near the source of your bond to have the inherent ability to intake Stormlight), while holding one/being in close proximity gives you Surgebinding. This theory might break down when you consider Szeth Surgebinding without the Blade being corporeal. ^ I just want you to see how I talked myself into a corner and why I'm changing my mind I think the WoB about Heralds not Surgebinding without their Blades just means that because they don't have the right innate sDNA, they can't Surgebind without a bond to an Honorblade. I think it's the established Spiritual bond that matters, not the physical presence of the Blade. I'd guess that the Heralds are still capable of Surgebinding with or without the physical presence of their Blades, because I'd guess they still have the primary bond to their respective Blades. I interpret the WoB as having more to do with severing/negating their spiritual connection to the Honorblades, which would be really hard to do since the Blades don't have a specific set of ideals or standards. Anyone can use them, nobody can betray them. My head canon currently is that bonding to an Honorblade literally re-writes your sDNA in a specific way to allow you to use Surges, while having the primary bond (which only the Heralds have) gives you some added perks. So yeah, Heralds might have a couple innate abilities, but we really haven't seen what a Herald can do when he/she is completely bereft of an Honorblade. In my mind, being physically separated from an Honorblade shouldn't negate your magical abilities: Szeth still Surgebinds after dismissing the Honorblade, so why couldn't Taln still have super-reflexes from his Blade? Maybe that's why none of the Heralds age - a system akin to heightening on Nalthis? So I'd say they definitely gain some passive abilities. I don't know if it's from just being a Herald, or if it's from a primary bond to an Honorblade, though I think the latter. Brandon's characters rarely if ever show supernatural abilities without some kind of investiture involved. The ability to passively intake Stormlight or not isn't what I'm arguing. Obviously they need to do it to Surgebind, so on some level the Heralds are capable of it. I'm taking the somewhat ludicrous and radical stance that at least Taln and Nalan, if not all of the Heralds, are still bound to their Blades, and are able to Surgebind, take in Stormlight, have heightened reflexes, not age, etc. The majority of them just chose to forsake that life, so whether they can or not spiritually, them not showing their abilities is more a function of cognitive paradigm or personal choice.

“I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn't know who he was, Your Majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have died.” —Hoid to Siri on where he learned his particular method of storytelling.[17] I always assumed he learned it on Sel, where Devotion and Dominion were shattered by Odium, and the two lands refers to the battle between nations in Elantris. I don't have a firm opinion on the 'man who didn't know who he was' though... Maybe a hoed gave him an idea while he passed through Elantris. With Hoid, who knows?

Yeah... I sent that email 3 times. Last April, last June, and last August. Lost in the mail?

Why not? I know this is apples and oranges, but Squires can take in Stormlight without having a direct bond/possession of a Blade. As far as we know, they can't Surgebind with it, but they can still use it to heal and such.Feverstone Keep vision seems to support squires not being able to Surgebind: The Radiant was the only one that Dalinar noticed moving more easily through the Purelake, none of the squires seemed to have that advantage. natc Posted Today, 08:42 AM "You mean the blades (Honor fragments presumably) may have caused some subconscious nudging in their behavior so far like Nahel spren, and their absence has caused them to regress with perhaps some withdrawal going on? I mean, if you've got this thing on you that spent thousands of years making you act honorably or something like that as you die repeatedly, once that's gone it'd be the last thing you want to do. " I agree with this idea. I took it one step further the other day and said the Blades bound the Heralds, not the other way around. Point is... Honorblades are largish fragments of Honor, so there's no reason they would bestow some sort of common nudging toward that intent. However, the opposite argument could be made. Edit: I see that you mentioned the caveat of Heralds becoming Squires. What I'm saying is that, since one group (Squires) is able to do it, I don't think it's too far fetched that the other (Heralds) could too. Overlapping abilities without overlapping identities/roles.

Edit, added a couple WoBs and spoiler tags because of length.

Or Nazh gets the boring work of actually scribing the AA, hence "the worst end of the deal." But yeah, I'd say it's Khriss doing the writing.

Speaking as seriously as I can about this particular topic, I imagine it would be moderately devastating to suddenly have your entire trachea filled with mashed potatoes. To put it another way, Instabam is not small potatoes. Ooo, see what I did there?