DiamondMind

I saw it speculated in the reaction thread that it might be that the Stormlight is healing him. From a close reading it does seem that Dalinar is still holding Stormlight from his "demonstration." Maybe, since he believes that he should have memories of his wife, the Stormlight his removing whatever block the Nightwatcher put in place, or is even repairing physical brain damage.

The fact that even the marks were exactly the same in each case of the double murder points to me towards a non-physical source. No one can be so perfect as to make strangling marks look identical, not even a Herald or an Aimian. If it's not the Unmade, which is probably the most likely case, then it's something else from the Cognitive Realm.

Is that info from the book or a WoB? And how exactly would that work?

I think "Listeners" is the in-world term for the entire race. The Parshendi of the Shattered Plains call parshmen listeners who can't hear the rhythms. On the other hand, Parshendi refers only to the "nation" of free listeners who lived in and around Narak. Maybe "freed listeners" for former parshmen?

There's a difference between theoretically knowing how to do something and the institutional knowledge of how to do so. Even if they were doing just menial jobs, which I don't believe is the case, others will have to be trained to do it properly and quickly. It's going to throw Roshar into chaos.

Ok, I checked @jofwu's timeline. There are 6 or so Rosharan weeks (30 days) between Thude escaping and Kaladin arriving at Hearthstone. I assume chapter 10 occurs within the next week. As @CaptainRyan points out on the map, the distance between the Shattered Plain and Kholinar, let alone Hearthstone, is huge. It took a week and a half (8 days) for the 4 armies to march inward to Narak over the chasms. Thude and his group jumped into the chasms on 10/6/1 and had to get out and find shelter from a highstorm within two days. After that, they would have to pass over the rest of the Shattered Plains, pass the warcamps which are all along their edge and avoid their scouts, and had to travel all the way through Alethi lands which absolutely hate them, in order to travel to northern Althekar for some unknown reason. Travelling through all that Alethi land seems implausible at best, doing so in so little time with women and children seems downright impossible and/or insane. Looking at a full map of Roshar, a journey to Kholinar alone is 10-20 times the distance to the center of the Shattered Plains from their edge. If you say that army was going slowly because of the chasms and in enemy territory, we can say that's a 5 day journey. That's 50 days at absolute minimum just to Kholinar, and I'm making a lot of generous assumptions. No, if we meet Thude again, and I do believe we will, it will be near the Shattered Plains. It makes the most sense that they went to the mountains to hide. It's a loose plot end that Rlain was concerned about the women and children and Dalinar promised to find them and then they were never mentioned again. I think he'll advocate for and then be sent with a Bridge 4 team back to the Shattered Plains in order to find that remnant, and run across Thude and/or and de-voided Eshonai.

You, sir, get ALL the upvotes!

@Calderis I think we'll have to wait for another WoB on this one, because I read it narrowly as Brandon specifically referring to the Parshendi nation when answering the question. Yes, it is technically the Alethi name for that nation and not their own, but that's the only way we have to refer to that group right now. "Listener," since it is uncapitilized and is a description, is more likely to be a name for the race of which the Parshendi are a nation of.

and AFTERWARDS Dalinar thinks: What could this be, that he is afraid of Gavilar finding out, if not that he let the child go? First, Dalinar thinks about the shame before Gavilar talks about the murder: So I don't think Gavilar bringing it up accounts for anything. I'm much more leaning towards that he's worried about Gavilar finding out about the shame itself, as opposed to anything Dalinar did. Dalinar is supposed to be the Blackthorn, and I don't think that he would want Gavilar to think that he's "weak."

There's no way that Thude and the other refusnicks were able to get all the way to northern Alethkar in a week or two. It's much more likely that most parshmen aren't transforming into forms other than stormform, or maybe not into voidbringers at all. That's compounded by the fact that the negotiating and stealing of ships in different countries. I'm starting to think that there are a couple in a voidbringer form in each group that lead through Odium's influence, and the rest were transformed into regular forms. The ardent did say that a few red lights were seen, but definitely not the whole group.

There have been a couple of theories floating around but I thought it would be good to lay down bets now that a few chapters have come out. From today's chapters I think it's the Sunmaker. I was already disinclined towards Jasnah and Renarin and I don't think these ideas have been brewing since Dalinar's childhood. What's your take?

The WoB you quoted doesn't say this, only that the Parshendi are a nation as @BlackYeti said. "Listeners" could be how all people of that race refer to themselves. I think for now Parshmen/listeners/voidbringers, or maybe slaveform/sprenform/voidform (or some such) are the best distinctions we have.

I am really out of date, I've only picked Stormlight and theorizing up in the past month or so. What the community has done has been nothing short of amazing. I'll look at it later to see specifics, but the biggest things that jumps out are placing Shallans WoK chapters the time gaps between Kaladin's viewpoints as a bridgeman. Also, why did you label every Chachel?? Also with references, right now it looks like you're keeping the order as is in order to not mess it up; if you link the timeline sheet to reference cells rather than have straight text you could mess with them more. Holy ****, I just did some back of the hand calculations, you're really into this. Unfortunately, I do think that neither highstorms nor the everstorm circle the planet at a constant rate. We know that stormwardens have to do some pretty advanced calculations, but they are able to predict them with some degree of accuracy. If there are a constant number of highstorms circling a planet at a constant rate, figuring this out would be fairly simple (and what would happen during the Weeping?). If the number varied and they are actually formed at the origin then calculation would be impossible, leaving their speed to vary in a complicated but predictable fashion. The everstorm probably behaves similarly, but it also clashes with the highstorms at frequent intervals which might slow one or both of them down. Unless you've cracked the highstorm pattern already? I wouldn't put it past this forum. If you look at just landfall, Yeddaw, Urithiru, and Hearthstone, would the numbers work? Have the three numbers being around dusk at Yeedaw (maybe an hour previous like you said), 1-2 hours past sunset at Urithiru, and noon +/- .5 hour at Hearthstone. I think that's the best guess for a constant rate of travel over land, and from that how the everstorm and (maybe even the highstorms) travels across the entire planet could be narrowed down. Like you said, if it's not constant over land then none of this matters, but it might be fun to figure out. I might play with it a bit.

He definitely had it when in Urithiru, since Dalinar sees him with it. No one mentions it after that scene though.

I looked at your timeline after I wrote my post, and I saw you made it really comprehensive! It's impressive work. I might have put some things differently, but it's really well done. First, I think the timing of chapter 4 can work. If Roshar has 20 hour days, let's call 1 hour a Rosharan hour (1 Rh). Now we need to make a couple of assumptions, like you said. If the day and night are the same length, the sun will rise at 5 Rh and set at 15 Rh, with midnight being 0 Rh and noon being 10 Rh. This keeps the numbering roughly the same as ours. The first scene is by the first moon, so one or two hours after sunset, let's say 17 Rh. Several hours later can be as little as 5 or 6 hours, so the wedding probably occurs at 2 or 3 Rh, which fits both "several hours" and "middle of the night." As for the Everstorm, I think it's best to track it after it makes landfall in Oathbringer because it will probably be faster than in WoR, considering it was just summoned and clashed with the highstorm before going to new Natanatan and out to sea. And perhaps it's slower over the ocean to gather strength of some such - it's still a storm after all. Let's assume further that it's a straight stormwall from north to south, AND that Urithiru is in center of the central mountains of Roshar. With that information, we know that the Everstrom his Urithiru at around 16 Rh and Hearthstone at around 10 Rh the next day, approximately 14 hours of travel. Hearthstone seems to be directly north Rathalas which is more or less at the latitude as Urithiru. So the Everstorm traveled two thirds of the way of across the eastern half of the continent, or a third of the whole continent, in fourteen hours. The above calculation is correct, the problem is noon in Hearthstone is not noon in Urithiru. So unless there's something in the book or a WoB about how big the continent is in relation to the planet (or some other indication of time differences), there's no way to tell from comparing two different places how long the storm takes to travel. As for getting to Urithiru there's a few more clues. The Everstorm hit Shinovar "many hours before" 17 Rh UST (Urithiru standard time). It arrives at Yeddaw around dusk, 15 Rh local time, and four hours or so after Lift spoke with Gawx, who had just been receiving reports about the storm being seen from Alm. (I believe you're off one day on your timeline, by the way. It definitely hits Shinovar on the same day as chapter 4, which would put the second day of Edgedancer on that day too.) Let's say reports are coming in to Azimir for the past hour or so before they spoke. That means the storm hit Alm around noon Yeddaw time...and traveled to Yeddaw in 5 hours or so. So maybe about a eighth of the continent in a quarter of a day? That would mean it would travel the entire continent over 2 full 20 hour Rosharan days. That's based on a lot of assumptions. That's probably a maximum, and a minimum might be one day travel over the continent. That's based on a lot of assumptions, but shouldn't be too bad an estimate. If there's any kind of clue to time differences it can be done even better. It does roughly fit everything we have so far.

A timeline for the first two books was done a few years ago, see this thread. There's a google doc there with the months and days of each Rosharan year filled in with events. Unfortunately it's mostly for WoR since the first book doesn't keep track of time as well. I don't know how well it meshes with your timeline. Edit: The Everstorm hits Urithiru at night, if you read Chapter 4 closely. Dalinar looks at Navani by moonlight and then gets married in the middle of the night. Edit 2: I see I've been away for way too long and the coppermind timeline references that thread. Good work on yours, that's a lot of effort!

Krios, if it's a Herald, which is certainly possible, I would put my money on Ishar. He's already heavily implied to be a traitor and he fits much better with your theory of binding an odium spren, being the patron of the Bondsmiths.

One of the Words of Radiance (in-book) quotes implies that one of the 10 orders of the KR didn't fall. There's a theory that the Skybreakers are that one order, so no current Shardholder would have a Skybreaker blade.

Also ties into the fact that they disparage the KR so heavily. I always found it a little weird that Vorin culture thinks that all the Knights were basically evil and corrupt. If the Shin were openly using the Honorblades to prop up their imperial power and explicitly linking them to the Heralds and KR, the Hierocracy would have a large incentive to discredit them and their connection to past eras in order to cement their power.

It also mentions Shin invasions, plural, so Shubreth was probably not their only conqueror. I do think they were before the Hierocracy, as they were the first one mentioned in both lists. Maybe they are even linked in some way. It could be the the zealotry of the Hierocracy was in response to the "pagan" empire that had recently collapsed.

Yeah, I'd have to agree that Travangian was the old man in robes in the meeting since he definitely talked to Gavilar that night. (Maybe Jasnah didn't know he was there?) But I think that you are entirely correct to point out that Gavilar had way too much info just from the visions and that he must have another source of information. He gets too many things right and too many of them just slightly wrong, which is Ishar's standard operating method from the little we've seen. I wouldn't put it past a corrupted him to influence Gavilar in a more indirect way.

Came across this and I'm not sure if I completely agree, but I thought it would be a good exercise to expand the foolish qualities with some extrapolation. Red is what I think we've seen, yellow is conjecture. I do think it's important that the Heralds don't just manifest the opposite of their attribute, but that it's twisted somehow. I couldn't think of a twist for every trait though. Herald. (Fool) Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protection Abandonment Leading False Leadership Nale. Just Perversion of Justice Confident Brash/No doubt Chanarach. Brave. Cowardly Obedient Rebellious Vedel. Loving. Hateful Healing Wounding Paliah. (Cabine) Learned. Ignorant Giving Taunting/Withholding Shalash. Creative. Destructive of creations Honest Silent/Hates questions Battar. (Eshu) Wise. Foolish Careful Thoughtless Kalak. Resolute. Weak-willed Builder Undermines Talenel. Dependable. Untrustworthy Resourceful Helps badly Ishar. Pious. False faith Guiding Leading astray

Someone needs to ask Brandon: "Is the blade that Dalinar recently had the same that Taln dropped at the end of Way of Kings?"

From Brandon's wording...it's unclear, but he says that the story itself is wrong somehow. Perhaps Syl didn't give the whole story about Honorblades or something? This is weird, the Hoid swapping theory seemed really simple.

This is my contention; Kaladin did revive his oaths, and Syl was restored, as soon as he started following them again by protecting Elhokar. He abandoned them but then returned. If Syl hadn't been held back by the Stormfather, she wouldn't have had to wait until he spoke the Third Ideal. There's no proof one way or the other whether or not she died, so we'll have to agree to disagree.