11thorderknight

I believe that "I will bring men together" is the Second Ideal of the Bondsmiths. For Shallan, we know the First Ideal is the same as the rest, but the Truths that come after are unique to each individual Lightweaver. That makes sense, since they're supposed to be free-spirited Artistes, and all. But, are there still Four Truths beyond the first? If there are, do they need to be spoken after the First Ideal? Because by my count, Shallan has spoken three so far: one when she Soulcast the goblet into blood, one when she showed Jasnah she could enter Shadesmar, and one when she admitted she killed her mother. That would make her level 4. But do they all count?

Wow. So, just finished the book. Overall, loved it, but there were definitely some....developments....that took me by surprise, and that I'm not sure what to think of. The main one being the Jasnah roller-coaster ride. At some point after the teaser chapters of WoR were released, someone on this forum predicted Jasnah's death. At first I thought, no way, Brandon would never throw away such a cool character so suddenly, it's way too GRRM. And I don't like GRRM. No way....but, it was plausible enough to get me to worry. Then, I read it. I was the first chapter I read of the complete WoR (It was the first new chapter that hadn't been released). I nearly wanted to put the book away, I was that disappointed. Such a waste. I understood the reasoning for it - Shallan had to transition from useless apprentice to Knight Radiant in this book, and she couldn't do it with Jasnah around. Plus, I figured that Jasnah, although written and characterized beautifully, was NOT the kind of character that Brandon would personally empathize with. Plus, actually killing her off is kind of groundbreaking in fantasy, since basically no one other than GRRM does that kind of thing. So, I got over my disappointment, and was ok with it. Then the epilogue. At first I was pissed. I'd just come to accept her as being dead, and now she's back?? Then I laughed, because in the pre-release posts speculating about her death, I had made a joke about "Jasnah the White" and that's exactly what happened. Then I was disappointed again - we now have gone from the cliche of killing off the mentor figure to allow main character development, so bringing back the mentor figure from an extended hiatus on the other side. Didn't Brandon recently have a hand in writing this EXACT thing? (Moiraine, cough cough). Then I was happy again, because now my favorite character is back. And now, on to plot. First off, she's important enough for Hoid to be hanging around waiting for her. That's interesting in and of itself. They've obviously met before, and not just in his capacity as the King's Wit. She obviously knows he's much more than that. What contact have they had before, and what has he told her? Secondly, the assassination. Unlike what some people have proposed, I do not think she deliberately faked her death. No Radiant of any order would have allowed a boatful of innocent bystanders to die for something like that. Also, I don't think she would have abandoned Shallan to find her own way, she's too much of a "controller" for something like that. I believe she finally got caught, and escaped by the skin of her teeth. Which brings us to how she did that. Yes, Stormlight would have kept her alive even with mortal wounds, and would have healed her eventually if she had enough of it. But if she was holding enough Stormlight for that, she should have been glowing like a bonfire, and not been unconscious. She'd probably also have made short work of the assassins, even with a knife in the chest. My theory is this - the assassins really did sneak up on her and stab her in her sleep. She really was almost dead. Then, when they went after Shallan, she finally inhaled some Stormlight, came to for a moment, and in a panic Transitioned to Shadesmar. Once there, her physical state didn't matter, and since she was out at sea, she was on land there, so she didn't need Stormlight to make a raft. But, she was trapped there, either because she was out of Stormlight, or because she was still wounded and couldn't go back to the Physical Realm with a hole in her chest. So, she took the opportunity to go wandering around and prying the spren for information. Remaining questions though: why did she manifest where she did in the epilogue? When Hoid asks her, she replied she was "pressed at the time of my escape". Now, this certainly could mean her escape from the assassins, but what does that have to do with her return to the Physical Realm? Alternatively, it could mean that she was pressed while in Shadesmar, and had to escape from there. Again, echoes of Moiraine.... So, all in all, more questions than answers. I'm glad my favorite character is back, and I can't wait to find out the rest of the story.

I don't think Brandon ever explicitly addressed this in any way, but in all the books, it's pretty strong tradition that metals are carried in some sort of alcohol solution. In AoL, Wax even comments on it, saying that he fills his with his favorite whiskey. Allomancers cannot, for all practical purposes, pull/push metals that are encased in someone's body. Alcohol is an organic solvent. Coincidence? You decide.

My point is that the only characters who are eligible to be the "flashback character" of a book are characters with enough important material in their backstory to justify the flashbacks. In my opinion, Kaladin only counted because Way of Kings was the first book, and therefore the flashbacks were as much about setting up the flashback system as they were about him. Going forward, only characters with some mystery to their backstory and the potential to illuminate the current conflict will be eligible for flashbacks. Aside from the ones we know about (Szeth, Eshonai, Dalinar) the short list includes Taravangian, Taln, the other herald, Gavilar (I think this is what BS always meant when he talked about potentially doing flashbacks for a dead character, rather than Dalinar), possibly Jasnah (though I doubt it).

I think it's useful to separate the concept of a "main character", a PoV character, and a flashback character. There's obviously more than ten "main characters" and PoV characters in the series, but there's only one flashback character per book, so there can only be ten of those. The thing about flashback characters though, is that you can only be a flashback character if there's something interesting in your past. For instance, Kaladin was an appropriate flashback character for the first book of the series because the flashbacks served to illustrate his life and give depth to the character, but as the first book in the series, it wasn't yet appropriate to have a series of "big reveal" flashbacks from someone like, say, Szeth, or a Herald, or Taravangian. Words of Radiance will be Shallan, who's somewhere of a cross between Kaladin (where the flashbacks will show why she is how she is) and Szeth (where the flashbacks will tell us an important part of the story, worldbuilding, plot, etc). Szeth, who's supposedly book three, will be about Truthlessness, Shinovar, and Honorblades. Eshonai will tell us about the origins of the Parshendi most likely. And Dalinar in book five will probably focus on what it was that Gavilar did, the Old Magic, and the voidlight sphere.

It's a fantasy novel, and no one wants to read about that sh&t. But in all seriousness, if one has a high-end soulcaster (like Jasnah's is supposed to be) it would actually be a good idea. Organic waste is just that....organic. And I'm sure it takes far less stormlight to soulcast things within the same essence than it does to change them to another one. For instance, changing rock to smoke and people to smoke cracks smokestone pretty regularly. But Jasnah was able to soulcast Shallan's blood multiple times with the light in a single garnet broam, and that was after that broam had already been used once to soulcast a goblet. And it still didn't drain it all the way!

I could be completely hallucinating this, but I could SWEAR that I remember a direct statement in Way of Kings that forgetting his wife is actually the boon, and that we don't know what the curse is. Haven't had time to go through a full re-read, and thus don't have a quote. Does anyone else remember such a statement? Or am I losing it?

I think people are placing a bit too much emphasis on the "Honest" attribute, which is Secondary to the Lightweavers, and not enough on "Creative" which is Primary. Shallan is clearly a very creative person from the very first time we meet her, not only in her drawing (which could be argued is not creative at all, since she uses a supernatural memory to draw what are as close to photographs as possible) but also in her thoughts, her word choices (the constant clever jokes, etc), her approach to problems. That attribute, I think, is what attracts the Cryptics. The Honest part is something she struggles with and is conflicted about, just as Kaladin is conflicted over Leading bridge four. I suspect that her Second Ideal will relate to Creativity rather than Honesty. As for the Cryptics/liespren....on a superficial level, you could think of them like Aes Sedai (i.e. they always tell the truth.....mwuahaha!). On a deeper level though, I believe that "true lies" to them are what we would call art. Words, pictures, shapes that aren't literally true, but speak to some deeper allegorical truth. Fits pretty well with Creative/Honest.

There's a quote in a teaser of Words of Radiance that Herdaz, while somewhat different from Alethkar/Jah Keved, is technically Vorin.

I don't know about "favorite", I think comparing Rithmatist to Stormlight Archive is like comparing a painting to a song; two art forms that are so different that no comparison, aside from personal preference, can be made. That said, I think Brandon's shorter novels and short stories are outstanding, and don't get nearly the praise they deserve. Although I love Way of Kings as a great example of the epic saga genre, the works of Brandon's that most impressed me with his skill as a writer were Legion, and Defending Elysium (short story available on his website). The latter, especially, packs so much style, thought, and philosophy into such a small piece that it's incredible. In general, I think the short story/novella form is very under-appreciated. They don't sell copies by themselves, so they're always either published in a magazine by an author just starting out, or diluted in an anthology collection. But when they're done right, they can develop amazing characters, tell a great story, and do it without having to invest in the massive world-building that a lot of big novels get bogged down by. For example, a long time ago I read the Thomas Covenant chronicles by Stephen Donaldson, and although they're considered a classic of fantasy, I wasn't that impressed. But I stumbled across a short strory/novella by Donaldson called "Daughter of Regals" and it to this day remains one of my favorite fantasy pieces ever.

From what we've seen, most Plate-bearers don't wear their Plate when going around the camps. Aside from being uncomfortable, it's probably considered pretty rude - like a public announcement that you don't trust those around you and are expecting to fight them at any given moment.

What y'all said - I can't wait for Shallan's backstory, and I'm sure there will be plenty of action in it (as well as her present-day story). Kaladin's backstory, to be honest, while well-written, was very predictable. You knew exactly where Brandon was going with it. Shallan's, on the other hand, will not be predictable at all.

I think that, between the Starfalls scene and Szeth's comments regarding Plate, it's pretty clear that "modern" Shardplate is not being used they way it was meant to. People figured out they could "hack" it by attaching gems to power it, but I'm sure the Radiants were able to summon it at will, as well as use their Surges while wearing it. As for the Blades and Kaladin....my theory is that at some point, perhaps while fighting Szeth, he will try to block a Blade with his spear, and infuse it with stormlight, thereby blocking a Shardblade. From there, he will somehow go on to make a Shardspear.

The Primary/Secondary Surge thing is the only part that I'll get on board with. If you look at the names of the ten orders, each name is much more closely associated with one of the surges than the other, and it seems to always be the counter-clockwise surge. The only ones that are even a little bit ambiguous are Windrunners and Skybreakers, since Windrunner seems to refer to flight, which is done with gravity (and we're now told, apparently, that it's surge 2) and skybreaker seems to reference division. But every single other order expressly references only the counter-clockwise surge. With regard to Soulcasters...it's pretty clearly described in WoK that the gems are interchangeable and each polestone is used to specifically target its essence.

Remember that the value of gems increases exponentially, so there's a point where doubling the size of a gem could make it 10 times as valuable

I think I've posted this elsewhere, but I'm betting on getting Gavilar's PoV in book 5, and Eshonai (or another parshendi) in either 3 or 4.

The three kinds of Blades are 1) Honorblades, 2) "common", modern-day, Shardblades, and 3) the Shardblades shown in Dalinar's visions, when they glowed and were wielded by Radiants, before they were abandoned to become #2. This theory was all but confirmed based on text in WoK - there really wasn't any other way to read the fact that Szeth's eyes turn bright blue whenever he summons his Blade. How he got the Blade is still a mystery, though my theory is that the Stone Shamans and Shin traditions are heavily involved. As to how the Parshendi got his oathstone, my theory is that Darkness gave it to them somehow the night of the feast, along with making sure they found out about whatever it was that Gavilar was doing. Putting my bets on it now: the next 3 books will show Prologue points of view for Eshonai, someone else, and lastly.....Gavilar.

My theory is that Shallan tricks Szeth into thinking she has his oathstone now, and makes him her b#$%h.

Remember, on a world with very little wood and the necessity of always being near shelter, something that gives light is going to be very valuable. So gems are useful to everyone on Roshar just for that fact alone. And in terms of Soulcasting utility....I think the value system might be based on it, but at this point it's pretty much a "fiat money" system, the same way that a 100 dollar bill is worth more than a 1 dollar bill (because Uncle Sam says so). Remember that the gems in spheres can't actually be used for Soulcasting by the ardents; they're too small to be fit into Soulcasters, and hence aren't useful for their stormlight, aside from ilumination.

I think it's unlikely that his IQ ever dips into "mentally challenged" category. Nothing in his discussion with Szeth required much on-the-spot thinking. And probably on his truly bad days, he's not even allowed to be left alone.

I remember that quote as well. Remember, though, when Shallan went to buy books, she spent a bunch of emerald broams on them; that's like, at least 10,000 dollars equivalent. For books. Now, it's true that they probably don't have printing technology so the books are all hand-copied. But still. Also, for someone who's supposed to be broke, that's a lot of cash to carry around.

Exact numbers aside, it's obvious that Brandon meant for Soulcasting to be mass-conservative, even if the numbers don't entirely match up. The boulder-to-smoke scene, with the pressure phenomenon, is pretty clear on that. As for air, my theory is that the Zephyr Essence isn't plain air, but the movement of air, i.e. sapphires are used in soulcasting not to turn things into air (although they could, with a much bigger pressure gradient than turning things into smoke) but rather to condense air into a dense enough volume that it could then be Soulcast into something useful.

We are told the relative values of chips, marks and broams: 1 broam = 4 marks; 1 mark = 5 chips; therefore, 1 broam = 20 chips. This is for spheres of the same gemstone, obviously. Add in the difference between gemstones, and you get the extremes of 1 emerald broam = 1000 diamond chips. Which is actually a pretty big spread for currency. We're told in WoK that a firemark is a week's wages for a sailor, which means that a firechip is one day's wages (Rosharan week has 5 days). A ruby is worth 10 diamonds, so a firechip = 10 clearchips. That means that a sailor, which is probably a reasonably-paid working class job on Roshar, gets 10 clearchips a day. Now, I assume they also get room and board on the ship, but still, that puts a lower limit on what a clearchip can reasonably buy (i.e. it can't be worth our equivalent of a penny, or even a dollar, just because it's the lowest denomination of currency).

I have personally been using the term Keepers for the feruchemy equivalent of Mistborn. And yes, I realize that pre-Founding, the term referred to the fact that the Keepers were dedicated to keeping old knowledge alive. However, it's a convenient term, far easier to write out than "full feruchemist" and actually, it sort of makes sense - a Keeper "keeps" various attributes in his metalminds for later use. So, even though it's not in the books, I think it's a perfectly good name for it, and would encourage its use.

Once again, my point is that nowhere in any text does it say that being Truthless is unique to Szeth. In both the actual Way of Kings, as well as in the deleted scene, it's heavily implied that to be Truthless is to not have any choice about one's actions, and be bound to do as commanded by the holder of one's stone. We are explicitly told that the Shin trade warriors amongst each other by means of stones. I will admit that is not hard evidence that the Shin regard all warriors as Truthless, but it's certainly something to think about. And again - if there is any text, anywhere, that indicated that being Truthless is unique to Szeth, someone please quote it. Thresh's comment "I do not think we will have another like him...." could mean "another person who picks up an Honorblade and becomes a Surgebinding Truthless assassin"