Gloom

I believe that Talenel will do his duty. He will attempt to prepare those he can to face the final desolation. If in the process he comes across the other Heralds he may take action against them, try to reason with them, or pity them. It really depends on Talns character. We know almost nothing about him. I do believe that Taln will be the one that stops Darkness. Whether this means he kills him, or not I'm not sure, but it seems reasonable to me that he is the most capable of putting an end to his butchery.

*I believe that Feverstone Keep was the only place in which Shards were abandoned where others could attain them. Perhaps this was the beginning of the Recreance, and after the Radiants saw the results of their actions decided to abandon the rest in a location that would be inaccessible to anyone but a Surgebinder. Then again it could have been the last group, but If I recall correctly, there were other Radiants nearby when that scene occurred. * * We can assume from this that there were several factors that led to the fall of the KRs.

First off, let me say that that theory wasn't mine. I don't know who originally came up with the theory. I have adopted it because it makes sense to me, but I'm not going to claim credit for it. I will say that I believe that the Shardblades are obtained by each individual Knight Radiant through the Nahel Bond. I don't believe this is necessarily the case with the Plate. If the plate was created by Bondsmiths, which was theorized by someone else as well, then the Plate may not have been affected when the Knights Radiant rejected their Nahel Bonds and forsook their oaths. If the Blade alone was a part of the bond, and the Plate was designed to function best by someone who was a full Knight Radiant, then the Plate would be similar to an engine that isn't running on all cylinders. It would still run, but it wouldn't be as efficient, or as effective as it is when running at one hundred percent capacity. I do believe that the Plate was incorporated into the Nahel Bond, but that it was done as an addition. I would say that the Day of Recreance was a blow to Honor, I wouldn't necessarily say it was a death blow. I'm tending to think He died during the Sunmaker war.

I'm almost willing to bet FeatherWriters right arm that the Shards Dalinar saw dropped in his dream were the only ones that were ever available to anyone who wasn't a Knight Radiant or Herald. My primary evidence for this is geography. It appears that almost all of the Shardblades are confined to a very specific geographic area. If possibly thousands of Shardblades were abandoned by the Radiants, I would find it likely that they would be scattered far more widely than they are in the book. Instead the vast majority of Shards are in Alethkar, almost every other remaining Shardblade is in Jah Keved. This leads to to believe that Feverstone Keep was an Alethi border fort between Althela and Valhav.

First, I would like to remind everyone that Feathers are only dangerous in the hands of Fletchers, not Writers. If you feel the need to eviscerate Renarin, well, he's used to it and has probably suffered worse, so feel free. I don't really care what happens to Renarin. His role thus far has been without any real consequence. At this point he's still a red shirt as far as I'm concerned. I think he has potential. He could definitely make an interesting character, but at the moment, he isn't. When I picture Renarin, I see a kid on a horse following a young warrior. That's about all the impression he's made on me.

Only modern fabrial are known to trap spren. After the explanation in the book about how fabrial are created, Navani then mentions that ancient fabrials were nothing like modern fabrials. If ordinary spren didn't exist prior to Honors demise, then creating fabrials as they are currently would be impossible because the spren required to create them wouldn't have existed.

Unless it's the fabled seventeenth shard

I'm amused that this thread is still active. In the future I would hesitate to suggest anyone bet anything grander than a pinky toe though. We don't want to put a strain on Kurkistans storage capacity for forfeited body parts.

I'm more than happy to concede that the Plate is something that a Bondsmith could craft, but I believe the Blades are a function of the bond itself. If they were nothing more than fabrials, I don't believe that Syl would have had such strong feelings towards them.

If Brandon has finished the final edit, why does his webpage have it listed as WoR 4th/5th draft — 10%?

Nothing says the Shardspear has to be modeled after a traditional spear. Give him a ShardFauchard, or a ShardGlave, and he'd be capable of cutting deep while maintaining the ability to wield it as a spear. In fact, ShardGlave sounds decent.

Ahh, okay, I see that. From that perspective it does look like a strawman. You could very well be correct that Brandon considers Radiant Blades as the same type of blade both before and after the Recreance. I personally believe that Szeths blade is a red herring in regards to the three types of blades. I could be wrong, I'm definitely not going to jump on the 'I told you so' thread and espouse my theory. If Szeths blade is a third type of Shardblade, it's origin baffles me. I don't believe that it is a creation of Odium though. At best, I would say that some Shardblades may have been corrupted by Odium, just as he can corrupt spren. I generally see Odiums investment in Roshar as the absolute minimum necessary to accomplish his goals. I'm completely convinced that Odium is very conservative with the amount of power he is willing to let go of and invest into anything. I consider Rayse to be something of a selfish egotist who believes in his own superiority.

I'm basically in favor of the idea that the Blades are a gateway in the same way that a spren is a gateway. By placing the gateway into the sword, instead of placing the gateway inside the Herald, Honor basically gave the Heralds a way out. A backdoor. It seems the gateway would by definition be the way that the Heralds would be transported to 'that place', but it would also be the means to access the surges. By placing the gateway in something that could be discarded, each Herald would know that they weren't slaves, they weren't damned by Honor, they were free men and women making a choice. Place the gateway inside the Herald, and I don't see how they could simply discard their responsibilities by discarding their blades.

Not really. Dalinars influence makes them ideal candidates for the Nahel Bond. Just as Kaladins influence will likely result in members of Bridge Four attaining Nahel Bonds. There are so few people living by the codes, that I imagine they becomes something like loadstones to bonding spren. Another advantage is their access to resources. A dirt farmer doesn't have the time or resources to put into esoteric philosophy of the education to put those concepts into perspective or test them against the ramblings of other philosophers.

I like the theory Shardlet. I'd say that while honor and cultivation aren't exactly something that one would associate with the other, they are not without similarities. Honor is about behaving in a way that is beneficial to society. An honorable person is a merit to the community. Cultivation is about improving something. It's about making something the best that it can be through time and effort. So it could be said that a society which could cultivate an environment filled with honorable people would be the pinnacle of achievement for both Shards. I wouldn't doubt that the purpose of the Nightwatcher was to aid humanity in achieving this goal. The granting of a boon to make a man more capable of attaining his dreams, in exchange for a neurological alteration that would push that man towards making the right choices. In some ways, while her methods are suspect, she may still be following this pattern. She is still bound to be following the intent of her Shard, which is to Cultivate, but it's possible she has become less focused on what direction she is pushing them.

Lets just say that their isn't enough romance writer in me for me to understand.

I took the autograph to mean that his spren would be one we hadn't seen before. That he would be a member of a different order of Radiants were he a Radiant than those who have been thus far seen. I didn't take it to mean that he would have a unique spren that no one else could have. I'd say he definitely won't be a Dustbringer. Renarin has refused to join the Ardentia at least once when it was strongly suggested, he joined a battle he was ordered to avoid, and generally does what he feels is right rather than what he's told to do. I could see Renarin being a Bondsmith. He seems to be a determined young man and he is reputed to be very intelligent.

Heh, I wasn't offended, just frustrated at having evidence that is based off cannon information dismissed out of hand as being a strawman argument. I'll agree that it's just a theory. They are all just theories. It's speculative, but this entire Forum is speculative. I don't see it as a strawman argument because it would mean that I either didn't understand your position or was intentionally misrepresenting your position. I do understand your position. This theory does run counter to your position, but I'm not misrepresenting your position, I'm presenting an alternative to your position. It may very well be wrong, but it isn't a strawman, and it does have corroborating evidence that can be used to support it. Our beliefs run contrary in this particular instance, but while I don't agree that Odium has invested directly in any type of Shard, I'm not dismissing your theory out of hand, which is exactly what you are doing when you call another persons argument a strawman. Given the supposition that the vision Dalinar had was just one instance of a larger movement by the Radiants, I would find this to be a plausible possibility. My problem lies in geography. It appears that almost all of the Shardblades are confined to a very specific geographic area. If possibly thousands of Shardblades were abandoned by the Radiants, I would find it likely that they would be scattered far more widely than they are in the book. Edit: added source for quote.

Very well, I leave it to you to show me how your theory is more cannon than mine. My theory is based off of actions and events that occurred in TWoKs. We know that something changed with the blades and plate on that day. We know that Sylphrena had been wandering the physical. We know that Sylphrena hates them. Please show me where in the book it is implied that there are Odium invested Shardblades. I accept that WoB is fairly dependable, but it isn't cannon, and when you measure it up against something that is actual cannon, it doesn't hold weight. So feel free to show me exactly how your theory is more plausible then feel free to discount mine however you please. If you can't then please don't attack it based on the fact that it doesn't agree with your own theory.

I'm suggesting that were taking to much for granted. We don't know if the Heralds were created because of the enemy or in anticipation of the enemy. We can pretty confidently assume that the Heralds had some kind of life prior to taking up the honor and burden of being Heralds. We can assume that swordsmanship was a known art. We can assume that the Heralds were chosen based on a number of factors, some of those positions likely required skill at arms. If the Heralds were men and women as we are led to believe by Kalaks statement in the prelude, then it isn't improbable that those candidates had preexisting skills that helped them qualify for the position they took. If I was a master of the Katana, I wouldn't be quick to trade it in for a Claymore. The opposite would also be true. I don't see why the Heralds wouldn't have input on what their blades would look like. I don't, at this time, see why the Radiants wouldn't have either.

I share the belief that the Shards were tied directly to their bearers, and to their bond. I believe what happened at the Recreance was that those we saw broke their spren bonds and as the spren bonds were broken their bonds to their shards were also broken. I believe that this was why the Shards remained. This is why they didn't crumble away when the Radiant they were bonded to died. I believe this is why even now, as crippled as they are, the blades still cause their wielders to feel possessive of them. This is why Sylphrena was lost in the physical drifting upon the winds until she found Kaladin. This is why she loathes those blades. They are a reminder of what was lost. They are a reminder of honorable men turning their backs on what is right and good. You want a third type of Shardblade, this is your third type. To say that a Radiant Blade is the same as a modern Shardblade is to say that a corpse is the same a living person.

First, we don't know when the Heralds were created, or how well they understood their enemy at the time of their creation. We do know that the Radiants were created later and the nature of the enemy was well known when they were formed. So the size and shape of Honorblades can vary widely because they may not have had a uniform understanding of the foe. Additionally, Jezrien was a king. He wasn't a step barbarian, he wasn't a hulking brute who would have learned the use of a massive two handed sword. He was a king, and he had likely been a trained swordsman before he became a Herald. A trained swordsman isn't going to throw away all his training to use a new type of sword that uses different forms and requires techniques that he isn't familiar with. He will stay with what he knows. Thus Jezrien, may have chosen to stick with the blade type he knew well rather than switch to a blade type that was unfamiliar to him. Second is the eyes. We have no solid evidence that the change in eye color isn't a trait of Honorblades. My personal theory is that Honorblades will always be linked at some level with the Heralds they were created for. A side effect of that link may be that it changes the color of the wielders eyes to temporarily reflect that link. So if Jezrien had green eyes, then when Szeth wields Jezriens Honorblade, his eyes would turn green in a type of sympathetic reflection to its bond with Jezrien. This change is simply a side effect of accessing powers that were meant to be accessed by the original bond holder, Jezrien. If this is true, then if a lighteyes claimed Talns blade, his eyes would turn brown while he was in possession of the blade and then revert to their normal color afterwords. Edit: The above theory is just that, a theory. I'm not trying to convince anyone they should take this theory as fact.

Nah, we all know it'll be Jasnah and Teft.

Ahh, that! Suppose that Jezrien has green eyes. Szeth picks up Jezriens Honorblade, and because the blade is still linked to, and will always be linked to Jezrien on some level, it has the effect of temporarily turning Szeths eyes green. If so, then it would stand to reason that if Dalinar picked up Talns blade after Taln refuted it as the other Heralds did, that his eyes would turn brown temporarily while he held Talns Honorblade. This is just a supposition based on an equal lack of facts as the supposition that because Taln has brown eyes, that Honorblades wouldn't change a persons eye color. I'm not saying it's true, I"m saying it's just as feasible as refuting Szeths blade is an Honorblade based on the temporary change in eye color.

Well, we know that Taln as a Herald can't be a Knight Radiant, and when asked, Brandon said all the Knight Radiants of the past were human. So if both of these persons become main view point characters, then you already have more than one. So I'm just wondering if this is a trick question?