Gloom

I think Moogle made some fairly valid points above. Elhokar is definitely broken, and he is not a bad person, he just makes a habit of making bad decisions. Those bad decisions are often the result of Elhokars lack of confidence in his own ability to rule as well as his temper. They are rarely the result of Elhokar being intentionally spiteful. Elhokar doesn't seem like he hates anyone in particular, not even Szeth. He is terrified of Szeth, but he doesn't seem to hate him, so I don't see how Odium could be getting a grasp on him. I think it is far more likely that Elhokar is a potential Willshaper. I think it is almost guaranteed that should Elhokar survive, he will become a Radiant.

Yikes, good work by all here. Climate wise I would suspect that Roshar has a wobble in its rotation which could help account seasonal flux. The Frostlands would have to be near a pole or equator considering that they are one of the least affected areas on the map (According to Shallan) by seasonal flux. My bet would be a pole, but I'm by no means an expert.

I think you pretty much picked Elhokars problem out. He believes that he was predestined to be king, and as a result, he is terrible king. Elhokar believes that he has the right to rule, not an obligation to serve. Dalinar is going to have a hard time forcing Kaladin to do anything now. Kaladin is in a fairly unique position in that he has vowed he would never allow himself to become a prisoner again, he is the only Shardbearing Radiant who has any training in weapons, and Dalinar has no Shards at all. Dalinar didn't seem to want Kaladin to leave Urithiru and travel to Hearthstone, but it didn't seem like he had the mean to prevent him from doing so. If Dalinar is going to be an effective leader, he will have to learn to bend both his own desires and the desires of others to a similar purpose. If he can't manage that, then he will never bring enough Radiants into line to hold the desolation at bay. Defeating the Black Thorn without Shards would be a simple matter for a Radiant, so his success is entirely dependent on his ability as a spokesman from this juncture forth. The Kholin family as a whole, with the exception of the youngest son (who will remain nameless for this threads safety), could really benefit from a touch of humility.

My primary evidence that Plate is a product of the bond, rather than a fabrial is that they will need it, and they will need it soon. They don't have time to discover or rediscover how to create Plate. Secondary evidence is that Plate was only ever used by the Knights Radiant. They didn't spend the time between desolations creating thousands of new suits of armor for their soldiers. The Knights Radiant were the only people who had access to this armor.

Nalan is insane. I don't think he wants real Skybreakers to arise, and I'm half convinced that should they do so he would reject them if he couldn't find a legal reason to kill them. Nalan appears to approve of Szeth because Szeth is willing to do whatever is required of his honor regardless of the personal cost to Szeth himself. The fact that Szeth is eating himself up from the inside and slowly going insane is just further proof to Nalan that Szeth is the right man for the job. The biggest bonus for Nalan about Szeth is that Szeth in NOT a surgebinder. With Nightblood at his command Szeth will be unstoppable...until Rysn shows up with her Larkin anyways.

I also find it interesting that Kaladin and Shallan chose similar types of people as their followers. Kaladin chose the hopeless and downtrodden criminals and slaves of the bridges, and Shallan chose deserters. The primary similarity between these groups is that almost every one of the people they consist of are broken in some way. This not only makes them potential soldiers for their guard, but may also lead to some of them achieving even higher levels of power through a nahel bond as Lopen appears to be doing. Look out world, Gaz the Surgebinder is a definite possibility.

There are 40 parables in TWoKs. Four parables to correspond to four oaths per Order. The First Ideal is the same for each Order. I don't recall anything contradicting this in WoR. I find it far more likely that Shallan progressed to the Third Ideal before we saw her appear rather than that she only has a single Ideal.

"I'm a STICK." "You certainly are, and a very sexy stick at that." "I'm a sexy stick?" "Not JUST a sexy stick, you're a smokin hot stick!" "I'm a smoking hot stick?" "Not just a smokin hot stick, you're on fire." "I'm on FIRE?!?! "You sure are, hows it feel?" "It BUUUUURRRNNNS!" "Sucker!"

I believe that the Parshendi would have sued for peace years earlier if it wasn't for Sadeas murdering those Parshendi who attempted to surrender. Sadeas made it clear to the Parshendi that surrender was not an option and peace was off the table. Were it not for Sadeas, it is likely that the war on the Shattered Plains may have ended long before TWoKs began. I think that, while Gavilar contributed to the state of affairs, Sadeas actions were the final blow.

It wouldn't be hard to confuse the Herald who rode the storms with the spren who was the stormfather over a period of thousands of years. This is especially true due to Jezriens role within the Heralds. I personally think that since all of these beings have reached a mythological level, that confusing two such beings and combining them into one would be a simple enough thing to happen, especially due to the language shifts over that period of time and the tampering that was done to history during the time of the Heirocracy.

As far as the relative power of the radiant, a few thoughts pop up. One, perhaps the relative power of the radiant is dependent upon how close the potential radiant is to breaking prior to the power up. For instance, Kaladin has been under extreme mental stress each time he said an ideal. He almost comitted suicide prior to speaking his first ideal. Kaladin acted against what he felt was in his best interest at the time he spoke both his ideals. Two, it could have something to do with the current condition of the Herald related to the order that each radiant belongs to. We don't really know a lot about the current condition of most of the Heralds, but we know that Shalash appears to be functional, if a bit off. Nalan is also functional,if a bit twisted. Taln has lost it, but appears to be able to snap out of his fugue when necessary to protect himself. Jezrien is rumored to be in a very poor mental state. It's possible that the Heralds act as a sort of check on the power of their radiants. If so, Kaladins power may be unchecked within his sphere. Three, Some orders were larger than others, and it seems that they had different internal structures. It could be that not all WIndrunners are equal and that the higher the ranking of the Windrunner the greater that Windrunners power. Seeing as Kaladin is the only Windrunner at this time, he may automatically default as the leader of his order. As far as pattern goes, I'm not sure that anything was keeping him from reaching Shallan. I think Shallan was the one who refused to have anything to do with Pattern. Once Shallan remembered that she killed her mother, she told Pattern she hated him. I'm not sure we ever really saw Shallan do a power up, but she is at the third ideal as is Jasnah. With the third ideal comes the Shardblade. Shallan had that blade all through TWoKs, Jasnah most likely attained hers while in Shadesmar. Dalinar hasn't reached any of his ideals, he only spoke the first. Renarin is also unlikely to have attained any of his ideals yet.

Okay, I can see where you're coming from, but Stormlight must have a guiding directive. If it didn't, how would it know to fix anything that was wrong with a person prior to attaining stormlight? How would it fix Renarins eyes rather than just maintaining his vision at its current level? How would it regrow Lopins arm when he'd lost it long before he ever consumed stormlight?Some mechanism of stormlight healing needs to be able to evaluate ideal normal and restore the body to that ideal. If this wasn't the case, then new surgebinders would start at their own personal normal and be restored to that particular point of health. We don't know where that ideal is set, or what factors are involved. I think that since every surgebinder has to be slightly broken in order to become a surgebinder, that brain chemistry may not be affected by this, but I still have serious doubts that something like seizures would not be corrected. This will also b the last time I post in this thread since it appears that anything that is said here that even marginally appears unfavorable about Renarin results in a down vote, and I really don't see any reason to interact with people who feel they have the right to abuse the voting system because I have my own opinion.

If I recall correctly, Lirin wasn't fond of the Radiants, his mother was, but papa was not a fan. I think Roshone will try to imprison Kaladin, and ummm...yeah, Kaladin isn't going to be having any of that.

I don't believe Szeth is a coward, but I do think that the accusation that Szeth is a coward will have a large impact on his personality going forward. I believe what Szeth is, is lawful to a fault.

Szeth will be unstoppable...until he runs into a lil baby larkin that is. Then poof, no more investiture for Nightblood to feed off. I'm curious as to whether or not the Larkin will be able to drink the breath right out of Nightblood.

What we know: Jasnah was stabbed at least twice. Jasnah lived. Jasnah transported to the Cognitive realm — She spoke with the spren who dwell in the Cognitive. Anyways, Jasnah was exhausted before she retired, so I'm not questioning that her attackers got the drop on her. It was dark, so while I believe that it was Jasnah who was attacked and stabbed, I do questions Shallans observations about Jasnahs state. It is easy to see what you expect to see rather than what actually is. Jasnah may have just been regaining consciousness, Shallan distracts the assassins, they refocus on Shallan and Jasnah, seriously wounded takes the opportunity offered her to bug out. Once in the Cognitive realm physically, she needs to find a way home. It's also possible that she needed to learn another set of words to do so, or that she reached spoke those words just before departing the ship. It should be noted that Jasnah didn't appear to have a Shardblade in TWoKs.

I would also like to point out that Kaladin is bonded to a type of windspren. Kaladin is the dominant force in the bond, but when he just lets himself go, like he did in that fight, it is very likely that Sylphrena is far more experienced at moving through the sky than Szeth would ever be. Sylphrena is even pretty handy with a sword. I find it likely that when Kaladin just stops thinking about what he is doing and acts, he is giving Sylphrena at least partial control over his actions and his surgebinding.

Well, I think that Adolin was within his rights to kill Sadeas. Here's why. Adolin challenged Sadeas to mortal combat and was given the right to pursue that challenge by his lawful king. Granted, Sadeas wiggled his way out of the challenge to a point by forcing a delay of one year, but the challenge was accepted, Sadeas knew that Adolin wanted him dead. Adolin had good reason to kill Sadeas, since Sadeas was intent on undermining everything his father was working towards. It could be argued that Sadeas was a threat to humanity since he was trying to undermine one of the few people in the world that were actually trying to prevent humanities destruction. Sadeas has proven that he will go to any length to win, in this we can assume that Sadeas would have had Adolin assassinated before the year was out so ultimately, Adolin acted in self defense. I don't think Adolins actions at the end of Words of Radiance have any negative bearing on his potential chances of becoming a Radiant, in fact, I believe that his actions may improve his chances substantially. Up until this point, nothing in Adolins life had the potential to break him. Now, he has done something that could haunt him for the rest of his life. He has NOT spoken the first ideal, so he is NOT subject to the same restrictions that those who have done so are required to follow.

I found it interesting that Szeth hid the Sphere in Jah Keved, and the surprise Taravangian felt regarding the strength of the Thrill in Jah Keved. I also noted that Taravangian believed that the voidspren that causes the Thrill had previously been located in Alethkar. This could be coincidence of course, but I'm beginning to find coincidences difficult to dismiss these days.

Okay, I personally believe that the Radiants will be equivalent in rank to someone in the third dahn as far as politics goes, but at the same time, I don't think that most of them will care. I doubt a Dustbringer who sees a High Prince as corrupted will even think twice before administering justice to that High Prince, I doubt even a king would give a Dustbringer pause. They will be forced to police their own as they did before. It's doubtful that they will feel themselves beholden to the laws of man for much longer. Instead they will be compelled to act as their ideals dictate. As for Vorinism, it could go either way. It will partially depend on how the Knights Radiant react to Vorinism, and the rest will depend on the manipulations of Taravangian and Restares.

I agree. Lirin is an excellent candidate for becoming a Radiant. He is a good person with strong convictions. The test will be whether he cracked as a result of what happened with his children and the persecution of his citylord, or if it broke him. If he is broken, a good possibility, then he won't become a Radiant. If he just cracked, then he is almost certain to eventually become a Radiant. This of course is completely dependent upon whether or not Roshone has found or created a reason to kill him or not yet.

My primary point has less to do with his behavior than his supposed seizures. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that these, at the very least, wouldn't have been permanently corrected by stormlight, and find it likely that anything that was capable of causing a seizure would also be corrected.

If stormlight can heal a shard dead limb, it can stimulate or redirect brain activity. If it can grow back a limb that has been missing for long time, then it can fix pretty much anything. I think the burden of proof at this time lies in the hands of those trying to prove that stormlight wouldn't be capable of healing Renarin. I mean the eye is one of the most complex organs in the human body, many people with weak vision have had weak vision all their lives, yet Renarins vision was corrected. If stormlight can correct vision, regrow limbs, heal cuts and broken bones without effort, etc., I see no reason to believe that something like a mild case of Autism would be an issue.

Meh! Renarin isn't physically handicapped. Renarin isn't physically neurologically handicapped. Renarin is a Surgebinder. Any physical ailments would have been corrected when he started breathing in stormlight. This would have been when he stopped wearing his glasses. What Renarin is, is emotionally handicapped. He spends most of the book quietly coming to terms with what he is, and since we don't get a POV, we don't see it. Renarin didn't have a seizure in the arena, because this was at a point after he stopped wearing his glasses, he may have suffered a panic attack, but that is a completely different animal. Renarin is like someone who was born with one leg who just grew a second and now has to learn to walk rather than hop around. He just needs time to adjust to being balanced, to seeing the world through a new lens. He is cracked of course, if he weren't, he would never have managed to bond with a spren. There are so many potential reasons for his actions, but none of them are the result of a permanent condition of the mind or body. Stormlight would have fixed those.

Now what would be really really funny is if Brandon and Tor pulled one over on all the fans and none of these quotes are actually taken from Words of Radiance but just made up to make people squirm.