Robinski

I'm going to miss my weekly instalment. Hope to have more soon (but no pressure ).

I would like to submit on Monday, please.

Phew. Oooh. Cool. Nice. Be good to have that shown in later draft(s). Not all that easy to do maybe, so perhaps a challenge, but it's a totally reasonable motivation. Okay. 'Been presented with' then Hmmm. I tend to feel that she would know then not to risk staking something that she was not prepared to lose. Darn. Cross my heart, I was going to do that then the notion left me as I moved on. At least you didn't call one Cassius too!! Ahhh. I did not get that on reading through, until it was explained at the end. Ahem. I'd be tempted to ask if the RNG engine has a money back guarantee Yaay! Lols. Just as well And well said. Me too. Also, I'd like to retract one of my comments. If you are going to go into all of the detail of the numbers of games and the rolls--which I'm not saying don't do (although I think I will be a (good) challenge to do it well)--then why not go ahead and use all the numerics. I think it was a problem where the numbers 100 and 200 appeared in isolation, but when you got into all the scores, I think it becomes a style, almost like a textbook, and you can get away with it, as long as it's understandable, and it's SF. I really don't see it working in a 'period' fantasy. I would totally read another version of this, because I'm encouraged by you saying what edits you'll undertake.

That would be the diplomatic solution - let's use that I am drinking tea too! Do you have cake? I have cake. Lemon drizzle: blaeaeahh... (that noise that Homer Simpson makes). As far as the grammar goes, I'm not that keen on "Not any of the adults were laughing.", but we have a solution so I'm happy to move on. (And continue to believe I was right all along: mua-hahaha!)

Thank you so much for reading, Aero. Yup, I've edited that. To me it feels anachronistic good (Is that like chaotic good?), but I've tweaked it. Thanks for calling it out. Well, he's there to make a good impression and play for an audience of children. He wants to entertain, not encourage people to examine their lives. Mixed audience, so needs to entertain the adults too. Also, perhaps presumes that noble children are more sophisticated than young plebeians. Excellent. 3 for 3. I am pleased Aaaaand 3 for 3 on dissatisfaction with J's perspective in this scene. Thanks for calling that. It's edited now, as noted above, and hopefully better, but I'll tackle it again after the first edit then Beta read. Great comments, thanks A. Much appreciated. <R>

I had the same reaction. @Mandamon names the problem a little clearer than I did. The narrator seems very aware of what he is doing -- the narration is coherent enough for him to be able to mentally react. Maybe either needs to be more a breakdown in his thought process, maybe a drastic change in voice? OR he needs to react somehow. In the back of his mind realizing he is out of control and is powerless to stop it. The later, evoking a sense of powerlessness to control his own mind, could be intense in a good way. Yeah, okay. 100% adverse reaction to this. I have now edited to try and 'hang a lantern' on some of this. It is confusing, and I was sort of going for that to some extent, but I don't want it to be 'this is dumb' confusing, but rather 'this is weird, I am going to read on to find out what's caused this' confusing. So, pressure on me to land this suitably at the start of the next section. Go me!! I can do this!!!

Oops!! Sorry That bit does seem to work. Yay! Fabulous. I will take that!! After @Mandamon's comments, I have introduced a bit more 'awareness' in J that something it wrong, but he just does not have the mental capacity/control/resources to examine it properly. As you say, the next scene is important to convincing the reader that the last section made sense. (No pressure then.) Spot on. I missed a trick there, but have edited to make this more immediate and urgent. Good call. Do you know, I'm going to debate with you here Since 'none' is a contraction of 'not one', I read the line as "Not one of the adults was laughing." So, I think 'were' incorrect here, imo. Maybe indeed... Great comments, thank you so much. Definitely better now

Hey Mand, thank you so much for reading, and for keeping me 'honest' Excellent. See, I can do it when I set my mind to it. Yeah. I went a particular route with that section, and I'm not sure how it scans. Critiques will reveal all, but that's one in the 'needs a reaction' column. Memory problems, yes. That theme is not very consistent or clear in this first draft. I need to refine that in the first edit. As noted above, I need to come down clearly on one side. I will review and respond. Good point. I've gone back and put in some detail of him playing the market. Fixed, thanks. Not my intention! I have adjusted. Fair comment. Done. Might be WRS. I need to tidy up the whole memory thread in the edit. I have a note of that. Awesome. I thought it was worth spending the time on the recital for character purposes, and was fairly sure it would fit into and assist the plot (phew). Yes. I have clarified. Lol. No. It will get a complete retread in the edit. Good point. I was going to play out his analysis in the aftermath, but I appreciate that the lack of reaction to what's happening to him is bothering you. I'm going to reread it now rather than wait till the edit... ...And we're back. I think I've introduced some element of acknowledgement in J that something is not right. Perhaps not conscious, but something of a struggle. I think it's better, but maybe not quite right yet. Analysis to come in the aftermath Really great comments, thank you so much for reading. <R>

Yo, @Majestic Fox. Firstly, apologies that I am only now getting to your LBLs on this submission. My superpower is tardiness. It doesn't have many practical applications Anyhow, there are some great comments in there, and I have made some changes to Part 5. This one in particular... "A formless doubt? Has he just eaten his own dog from a forgotten past life? That would be funny. He becomes more dull to me, if he’s fluffy about animals…doesn’t seem to sit right with what you’ve shown me of his attitude. I actually loose empathy for him, even though I personally try to avoid a killing a even a biting mosquito." You're spot on there, of course, and I've changed that reaction up. Thanks for calling me on that, that reaction is not in character at all. Secondly, where the heck are you, bro? Hope things are okay. We're missing your insight and your colourful and intriguing story.

Thank you for commenting, folks. Sorry not to have responded before now. I'll get back to you in the course of tomorrow, I expect

Hey Aero, interested to be reading something of yours after quite a while, and to see how your writing has progressed. Let's dive straight in. - There's quite a lot of information in the second paragraph, but I'll take it all on trust at the moment, as I don't know how much of it I will need going forward. - Early on, the bantering tone is promising. - Yeah okay, more names. I think I am just about keeping track, but I feel I've get plenty to remember at this point (page 1). - As an engineer, I immediately start to disbelieve about the top plate when you sati's bolted into the wall. But it's supported on many, many columns, right? Think of the substructure needed to support a road or rail bridge. Having done that, don't you dare tell me this plate covered in buildings is cantilevered off some wall or other. - Feels like there's a fair bit of telling, which I guess is inevitable when gearing up so quickly and diving straight into the action. - 'shone' not 'shown' - "the streets were a delightful spiderweb of interwoven streets" - "wretched hive of s and v" - great phrase - "I would really like to destroy this place, J thought" - For one thing, comma, not period, as the tag is part of the same sentence. More importantly, I don't see anything to support this loathing for the place, because I don't know anything (really) about J. So, this thought feels like very direct telling. - I don't get any real sense of the U'city being inhabited, so when the kid runs into him it comes out of nowhere. The description is kind of abstract. Doesn't feel like they are there. Are there other people in the streets? What can they see, smell, hear? - There is also a weird mind-reading thing. What is that about? It goes unexplained. - "speaking like his normal self" - grammar. - Cheats? Huh? Again, not explained. - What? Wait, what happened there? The kid stole something? - "A few dark doors without lights suggested that those places were ones not frequented or only patronized by those invited" - really complicated phrasing, hard to follow. - "It was in the center of undercity, though the establishment hadn’t started there. The owner had simply gambled her way up." - Again, I don't understand. The building hadn't started there? Okay, I sort of get it, but had to read three times. - "Four seems like a lot for her" - But something like that is about him, surely. He's the one betting his house (or whatever). - "They have a rule about concealing your identity" - Telling. - Well, I've learned something today. I have never, ever heard the word 'forewent' - thank you - You say there are people at the table, but it doesn't feel like it, because we are just told there are people. We can't get any sense of them, sex; appearance; noise; mood; the place still feel empty. - "Keep it. This disguise is only one way." - The description of the lady by J is pure telling. It's quite hard to take, very mechanical. - "wager two questions from you" - two answers, presumably. - Why is 'Stakes' capitalised? I can't see a reason for it. - A's dialogue scans a lot better for me than the others somehow. It just flows better, is clearer, and the meaning is simply expressed. A lot of the other dialogue is so slick and minimalist that I can't actually understand it, or is telling, or tending towards being unengaging. A's is none of these things, it seems to me. - I find all this talk about bankrupting people unrealistic. Have you ever been to a casino? That's really not how it works most people who go to the casino actually do pretty much stick to a limit, because they are there for fun and don't have a gambling addiction. Even those with an addiction, I would wager (sorry, couldn't resist that), might operate on the basis that, if they want to come back again tomorrow and the next day and the next, can't afford to blow all their funds at once. Plus, the best gamblers in the building will be the ones who absolutely know their limits and are the least likely to permit themselves to be bankrupted. - "halfway through the bankrupt" - grammar: halfway through the bankrupt what? - "A had either directed them to alternate room to gamble, or let the veterans of the place watch" - I don't understand this. - "J interrupted their verbal sparring" - I think if you have to tell us it's verbal sparring perhaps it's not working on that level. - I'm having another thought about the bankrupting thing. You don't actually mean bankrupting in the real sense of the word, do you? I think you mean 'busting' them, cleaning them out of the funds that they have available for gambling? That's a different thing from bankrupting, and I think the 'b' word is misleading in its use here - if I'm right about how it's being used. - Who is 'G a s t'? - I'm trying to decide how I feel about the game. It's an interesting game, but the description of how it's played being spoken during the game kind to drops the tension and feels a bit clunky, dynamically. - I'm finding all the tactics about the game rather boring, but it's largely because I'm not really invested in the characters, so I don't care who wins. Also, major bugbear of mine. The statistical probability of all these triples and doubles, then 5 x 5's coming up in consecutive rolls is infinitesimally small. It's just not realistic. Gambling movies so often make this sort of thing horribly contrived. - I would advise strongly against using numerals if you're going to submit this anywhere. 100 and 200 should be spelled out. - I'm definitely not following all this stuff about games and rerolls etc. - I started skimming at this point, as it was all about the game and not about the characters. I felt I didn't have an investment in the outcome. Summary: hmm. A lot of detail is skimmed over to the point that the world doesn't feel real or substantial. Names, concepts and organisations are mentioned but skimmed past, so I don't really now what they do, why they exist or what their function is. I mentioned the dialogue and there are portions that are very telling of information, and that makes them difficult to swallow, then there are other parts of dialogue that I just don't understand. When we get into the game, and sense of character motivation disappears, for me. It's all about the game and that's really not very entertaining. I didn't follow the rules, which seems very complicated. Also, all those numerals; it's like doing arithmetic. The idea of a story around gambling has been done a lot in film and TV; maybe not quite so much in the written form. I think you need to have really strong characters and a really strong reader investment in outcome to get away with pulling up and game very few people will have heard of and explaining it in detail during the story. Also, I think the explanation needs to be much clearer, because I think you're going to lose a lot of people if it's not crystal clear and uncomplicated how the game works. All the sums will turn off a lot of readers, I think. I think the character thing is the biggest point though. I think they need to be stronger and more engaging, and their relationships too, for the story to work. I hope this is helpful. I appreciate it's not glowing praise, sorry! This is a short story, right? <R>

I enjoyed this submission. My comments, generally, are on details, and I have sent you LBLs separately, which I hope are useful and constructive. I like the emphasis on hard work, that was great, more on that below, and also I was pleased the Ad doesn't have a 'magic' quay, which would have been contrived. Some more substantive comments below (copied from the LBLs, but embellished a bit here and there). - "I saw W hobble over to T’s place wearing a pink lacy bra" - Lol. Intriuging and greater character 'colour'. This is the very definition, I think, of not going for low-hanging fruit (pun intended!!!). Great character building. - In the first couple of pages or three, I found it a bit hard to follow when he was out spying on W&T, and when he was back at home, because of the looking back perspective of part of that first bit. Not assisted by me forgetting he was in a vehicle, and getting confused over looking out the window (which made me think he was at home). - "I found some nice hydroponic ones at the store" - I'm struggling with this concept of them going to the shops. Where are the shops if the island is a big dump? I feel like I don't have a very good sense of the geography the island, or if and how they travel off the island. How is the island shop supplied (if there is an island shop), and by whom? - There's a lot of talk about foreign this and that. I'm trying to decide how it sits. I feel a bit uncomfortable about it, and whether it's a healthy perspective, when the US is such a melting pot. Ad is making a traditional dish, but is it fair to refer to it as foreign. Is Ad not an American national? Is he a foreigner? Surely not if he is fighting in the US army, which is my assumption. - Hmm. I'm not sure what the LotR reference brings to the story. I doesn't seem to serve any purpose. I don't get it. - The word 'postulating' doesn't feel like it's in R's voice. Doesn't seem to fit with my image of him. - "Through hard work, my boy,” he said flexing his arm" - Lol, but actually I really like to see this message. I see people around me who I would love to shake and say the same thing to. Some people have no idea. - "Tomorrow I would return to T&W's..." - The ending didn't quite land for me, I was confused. Does he have the gold? Or, is he going to try and steal the trunk? Surely he can't bargain until he's got the gold or he'll alert them abnd they might change their minds about the amount as time passes with him 'mining' the gold. Nice job. I feel like the story is flowing along, stuff is happening, the pace is consistent if not breakneck (which is okay with me as long as we get some quick/exciting sections to keep up momentum. <R>

I'd be happy to offer one of my handbound blank sketchbook/journals as an anniversary prize. The largest size I do is roughly the size of a regular paperback, though. I'd be happy to put something up too.

I've been thinking about that, but not done any research yet. But I will

Yes, totally. Sorry, of course you said it was a second draft. Apologies, I misremembered. I don't think that needs to take a lot of work. I think it's one of those things that, if you show it working in that way, maybe no actual description is required, and the reader still would accept it. Dunno. Interest in other opinions. It's your world, and if that's how it works I have to accept that. The other way to go would be to perhaps just highlight in passing why they still have physical 'money'. Yup. Even if it's just one more sentence per scene or action, it will still add to character and setting.

Really interesting to have your perspective. It's actually been 10 years of Reading Excuses next year, Silk tells us. I think I can say without fear of contradiction that we're glad you found us, and hope you stay for a long, long time Me too. Mandamon and I were in a G**gle Docs group that fizzed out too. This place is a treasure, which is why we fight to protect it, and I hope its members. Idea I had an idea a while back, but was unconvinced how popular or well-received it might be given how busy we all are. However, I've just had a development of said idea. I thought a short story competition would be fun, but that might be quite a bit work, however, we could run a flash fiction competition in 2019 to celebrate 10 years, and we could canvas entrants from all over 17th Shard. The thing is, there is a Writing Excuses thread in parallel with us here on Related Works, and there seems to be very little crossover between us. Then there is Creators' Corner a bit further up the forum list, and people there are submitting stuff all the time, and discussing it, but again there is very little crossover with us at RE, as far as I can see. We could 'advertise' the competition far and wide even just on this site. What do you think @Silk? Is this bonkers, or recommended against by some forum rule I'm not aware of? I'm thinking of a pretty simple arrangement. Everyone who submits and entry gets a vote (to the coordinator via PM), and you can't vote for your own piece. Crazy? Unpopular? Just a notion to celebrate and to attract attention for the group.

I think I flagged a couple in the LBLs I sent Again, I think I did this. Nothing dramatic. But I say that on the basis that there is not a huge amount of description of anything, and that is the form of the approach, so it would tend to be inconsistent to flag places where there could be more description, as that would be everywhere I never got bored. You mentioned quiet scenes, but all the scene are pretty short, so it's never long before something happens. From that perspective, I felt the pacing was okay. Yes, you could dial up a lot of the character reactions, and there were a couple of places where I didn't follow how they got there. These are flagged in the LBLs. Still, I was entertained. Events skips along and I would say keep going, don't stress on details, and certainly don't go back to the beginning. Let's get through the first draft so you have a full 'suite' of comments to tackle in the first edit

I'm sending you LBLs separately, but here are the more substantive comments: - Various grammar and phrasing things in the LBLs. - Why would Z turn the store of clothes into printer fibre, if they are looking to chance their appearance? Seems redundant. - I found the logic around the credit sticks a bit fuzzy. - "The world [sic] word sounds exciting in my mind and in hushed conversations." - This is not the first time you've used this phrase (in my mind), and I have a real love hate relatonship with it. I think it's way overused. The only place characters have to think in is their mind. Any thought that is expressed in narrative, in first person, takes place in the character's mind, so the phrase is redundant. I find it a weak phrase for that reason, and it conveys very little. 'hushed conversations' however is a phrase that evokes subterfuge and excitement. I agree that the line works best with two references, but I think something like "The word sounds exciting in hushed conversations and hidden messages..." would be way more effevtive than the rather nebulous 'in my mind'. Or, if you want the 'mind' angle, you could use "hurried thoughts and hushed conversations" - which is even alliterative - "cold steam" - if it's cold, it ain't steam. Must be some other kind of gas. - "Just long enough to refuel and make sure we have enough provisions" - They've just acquired a load of provisions, I'd be really surprised if they've gong through any amount of the stuff. This comments throws me. - Z's first suggestion isn't resolved, the section just ends, and felt really unfinished to me. I don't think that works. Also, not sure I see any need for a section break there. The gap in the narrative is not big, it seems to me, and you can bridge it with one line about dropping through the atmosphere, or something like that. - Stashing physical credit sticks around different planets seems incredibly outmoded in a world where interstellar flight is a thing. I mean, physical money is on its way out in our world. - If everyone knows where the illicit warehouses are, why have the SE not busted them up? - "Enough people fill the streets that I can disappear a little." - Bah. How can you disappear a little? Also, either there are enough people to fill the streets or not, surely? - "what's his name you're supposed to meet" - This felt manufactured to me. We never heard where they were going or why until they arrive. When was this arrangement made, and how? - The ending is a bit weak, for me. I think there's an awesome opportunity to land a better joke here. Di hopes that they don't need to wear skimpy uniforms. I think the big laugh would be to close on the last line of the advert. 'Uniform will be provided.'

Hey there, How exciting to be at the start of this journey. I see from above that you have had this advice already but the only thing to do is just start writing. I would add to that to have no expectations. ONE: The first thing you write will not be good, neither will the second or the third. I would recommend practising before tackling your main project. Try writing a short story in your world. But even before you do that, just write something, anything. TWO: Get help!! By this I mean that learning to write is not something you can or should do alone. Perhaps join a beginners' writing group, but also get some direction. You could do a lot worse than starting to listen to the Writing Excuses podcast from the beginning. You will gain a wealth of knowledge and good advice, and you will learn the language of writing and also a huge amount about the process. THREE: Take instruction. You can find Brandon's lectures on Y Toob. I suggest watching those through, again to gain insight on what you are trying to do and how you might try to do it. FOUR: Commit and stay committed. You are going to hit slow points and low points, but if you want to be a writer you have to write, and you have to keep writing until it's right. FIVE: FINISH, FINISH, FINISH, FINISH. Loads of people start writing, but very few, statistically, finish what they started. If you want to be a writer, you have to write, and you have to finish writing something and start writing something else. (And go back and edit the first thing, too!!) SIX: Consider joining Reading Excuses on this very forum. We are a caring, sharing writing group for writers of all abilities. We have published authors on there, self-publishers and people still working on their first project. It is a very positive and reinforcing environment, I think (may be slightly biased...) where you will find a lot of encouragement and support. Best of luck

Interesting to be critiquing a play; it’s something I’ve never done. Sure, I read various works of Shakespeare at school, but it’s been a while, and I’ve never had any kind of ability with drama, despite writing over 1M words of fiction. So, with that in mind, here we go. I hope these comments are useful. Good luck! <R>

Hey, yes, I'll happily take a look and come back you with comments. Probably tomorrow.

Trivial stat #346 So, since I've been on Reading Excuses (5 years), there have been 74 different submitters... I think it's interesting that so relatively few have stuck with us here to be honest, but there you go. Stats. Gotta love 'em

Bon soir, mes amis, Here is another episode of this fantasy novella of mine, the seventh to be precise, and we are getting on towards the endgame. Thus, I hope you find this more exciting, stimulating, pacy, etc., and that the stakes are ramping up. Any and all comments gratefully received. You've done so much to get me to this point, and I am hoping your excellent observations will push me over the line so I can go back to the beginning again Kind regards, Robinski

Oh no! I hope you get those sorted out. Good luck

No problem. I would not call it 'defending'; I prefer clarifying 1: No problem. My reaction to the scene, to some degree, is in isolation. I might react the same way to a scene by Jim Butcher or Jeff Noon (current reading), but I don't get to express my thoughts to them! You know a lot more than me, and so you get to overrule any reaction that I have. I sometimes think there's a bit of a trap in critiques and critiquing in that, in receiving a critique, there is a tendency to try and satisfy all the comments. Sometimes, perhaps, we are not so good at remembering we can set aside or politely decline any or all comments. My strategy now, is to make a small change rather than a big one. Perhaps even the smallest change possible. So, if someone tells me there way too much description on a page (say), I'll maybe take one line out. That might be enough to have changed that person's reaction. I won't ever know that, of course, but next time a new reader comes to it, in a complete beta for example, I might just have tipped the balance enough that they are content with the level of description that remains, and I haven't decimated a page that I thought had merit when I wrote it. Maybe beta makes the same comment. So, maybe I take out another line, or half and line, and move on. I figure my story is going to be read at least five time before it gets anywhere near a publisher/editor/agent, and then it will be read again. There are lots of chances to refine a piece. What does all this blather mean? If I was you, I would stick to your guns, maybe rephrase, maybe trim slightly, but by all means do not wade in with the scythe. 2: "Do you think it can be condensed without breaking (a) and (b)?" - Yes, and I'm not sure how much you even need to condense it. I think what I reacted to was more the tone/phrasing, the delivery, if you will. I almost thought A was a bit matter of fact in relating this difficult past, and that it lacked a bit of grit, feeling, emotion in the telling. Potentially, I guess that could make it longer, which I would caution against unless, by making the scene (a bit) longer, you are really punching up the emotional impact. I think maybe what I'm saying is I could not picture the events and their impact as clearly on an emotional level as I might have wanted. I don't want screeds about how A is feeling. I think it's more his choice of words, his phrasing, where I'd like to feel the impact more. 3: I would say it's not overflowing with tension. Did I complain about that? I mean the surgery going on is a bit tense, but A's story is in the past so, while it's dramatic, I'm not sure I would use the word tense. In other words, I don't think tension is a particular problem personally, and if I implied it was, I apologise Deal. And really, honour seems way too strong a word for me getting to exercise my pernickety gene Oh, listen, that's my bad. I become lazy about issuing .docx, when the the guidelines clearly call for PDF. At the very least, I should be issuing both. I will try and remember to do that.