Kadrok

Honestly I like Full Feruchemy and Full Allomancy together. Not even to compound, just because I like the way they fit together, especially the way Feruchemical iron fits with Allomantic steel and Allomantic iron, or (as you have observed) the way Allomantic pewter lets you skim health, speed and strength off the top with Feruchemical pewter, Feruchemical steel and Feruchemical gold so you can store without loss. And I totally think there's something that can be done with Feruchemical aluminum and Allomantic gold as I've rambled about previously. I find Feruchemy and Allomancy fit so well together, that even with full access to one of them, I'd still feel like I had an incomplete set of powers. Again, I emphasise, this is not because of compounding, but just the non-compounding ways they interact.

There are probably some issues with this, and for that I apologise. I'm not quite down on the Stormlight Archive lore just yet. But I thought I'd put this out there for you all to shoot down This came up in a thread about defining Honour. Gloom's post reminded me of a certain kind of Feruchemy... Thoughts?

What a fascinating idea. Assuming your perspective, I wonder if a Duralumin Ferring with the proper investiture to bond with an honourspren could use his Feruchemy to cheat his way into bonding an honourspren. Duralumin, afterall, stores connectedness to others, and tapping huge amounts of Duralumin has the effect of making "anyone you spend a few minutes speaking to in a friendly manner feels a strong connection to you, as if they’ve known you for years. Old acquaintances suddenly feel as if you’re their closest friend. Likewise, you have difficulty betraying anyone other than a sworn enemy — or anyone you’re speaking with at the moment." and tapping even more makes you: "the object of absolute devotion by all but sworn enemies. Most will lay down their lives at your word, and happily submit to your every wish — as will you for them." (MAG 346). EDIT: And now it's a theory in the cosmere section! Thank you for the inspiration Gloom!

I'm a fan of the theory that she subconsciously detected with bronze the ripples in creation caused by lightweaving, personally. This has all been said before (possibly in this very thread... I'm pretty tired, so I apologise, and kindly ignore this post) We know it's possible to sense Allomancy with Bronze, and theoretically possible to sense Feruchemy (Phantom GO! Use your "Word of Brandon" attack!). Further Seeking can sense the ripples created by the well of ascension, and given off by the Ruin and Preservation mist spirits. Seeking is clearly not just the ability to sense Allomancy, but the ability to sense the ripples in creation created by Allomancy and other manifestations of investiture like Feruchemy (and even Shards!). However, as Brandon said somewhere (Phantom, follow up with your "Timely Quote" attack!") learning to detect Feruchemy must be pretty difficult if the Inquisitors, with all their Seeking power, couldn't figure out the trick in 1000 years. So the theory goes that what Vin experiences here is a very subtle manifestation of Lightweaving's impact on the pattern through her Bronze sense. She can't explain it consciously because she's unaccustomed to these ripples, but she has observed... something and it gives her the vibe.

Necrothread!!! Also: Yep, we know (though I was under the impression that a lot of metals would break down over time in the body). I just wanted something with style. Metal nodes are cool and all, but not nearly as cool as MAGIC TATTOOS. Thank you for your input on tattoo feasibility. I guess I'll go eat the chocolate of disappointment....

Grey Pilgrim: Wasn't intended as a jab at you. My post didn't get that much attention, so maybe no one really noticed it.

I feel obliged to bring this up again:

My view has long been that he has at least Seeking and Soothing spiked up. I give my reasons in this post: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3813-hoid-has-the-lord-rulers-atium-bracers/?p=60860 This is not to say that he can't have spiked for more things, simply that if he had only spiked for two I think those would have been his choices.

Hoid is a storytelling planeswalker with a penchant for collecting magic. If Brandon is anything like me, Hoid is totally his author insertion character.

Burn Iron or Steel to know when cars are coming so you can speed through intersections without having to slow down or look.

You win the internet. This is so amazing not just because it is a boring use of a really useful power, but because it is so decadent. You'd have to get 49999 people to essentially turn over a portion of their soul to you, all because you were frustrated with the limitations of bleach.

On the related topic of the Hemalurgic enhancement of the Lord Ruler that Phantom has brought up, I would think he'd have at least two powers Hemalurgically improved (one per bracer) if not more... and I'd like to put forward Soothing and Seeking as the two most likely for him to have enhanced. Seeking was the favorite of the Inquisitors, and I can't see Rashek letting one of his creations be better than him at anything, not to mention copper piercing is just that useful. With Soothing there are the examples of just how damnation strong he is at soothing, not to mention its usefulness at controlling Hemalurgic creations, of which he had many

I suspect that part of the answer is a limit in the number of Inquisitors. But another issue is that if they exploited every single opportunity to catch Skaa Mistings by piercing their copperclouds, the Skaa would likely realie that Copperclouds were ineffective and rely instead on rigid discretion in the use of their abilities, making them far harder to track. A huge part of the advantage is that it is believed that copperclouds mask all Allomancy... by only using that advantage at important moments, such as when Skaa are detected infiltrating Kredik Shaw , they can monitor Skaa Allomancers far more easily secure in the knowledge that the Skaa think they are hidden. This further allows them to keep an eye on Skaa mistings until they are ready to "cash them in" when they need to make another Inquisitor.

Epic theory Phantom, and I love it. Brandon has mentioned that it is theoretically possible to use Alluminum Feruchemy to access other people's metalminds (MAG, 340). As Phantom points out, if any Feruchemist has figured that out, it's Hoid, though I can't imagine that being able to access the Lord Ruler's supply of youth would be massively useful. I wonder what happened to Rashek's other metalminds though... do you think he had a coppermind, say?

Wow. Epic find Phantom, and what I am about to say shouldn't be seen as coming anywhere close to what you've mentioned. But as someone else who doesn't have a physics degree, can I just mention the Talents series by Anne McCaffrey? The general gist is that psychic powers are discovered in the human populous, and they affect the trajectory of human development (technological and otherwise) resulting in the development of psychic powered space travel. A character named Peter Reidinger features significantly because he can increase his power through tapping outside sources of energy... *cough* Nicrosil *cough* (Nicrosil Feruchemy OR Allomancy...). I haven't quite finished the series (got distracted by my other studies) but my understanding is that they basically have one uber-psychic on each planet whose job is teleporting spaceships.

Sorry to interrupt, but this sort of thinking has always troubled me, and I'd like to understand how it is patently true that one can only understand something through also knowing its opposite. Surely I don't need "cold" to understand "hot", surely I just need... "average"? What I mean is, you can love someone, hate someone and have no strong feelings towards someone, and I think I would still understand love even if hate didn't exist. That being the case, I think you could know Odium without having Devotion to compare it with. Does that make any sense? (I feel like I missed a big philosophical memo whenever this comes up )

Storing mental speed to combat boredom.

I'm personally of the view that a Soulbearer with Allomantic powers could use the Investiture to power his burning, though I must disappointingly acknowledge that this probably won't allow them to use Allomancy without using metals at all (like I want it to) as the Nicrosil investiture needs to be shaped (at least, this is how it works in Feruchemy... you tap investiture with something else to pretty much tell the Nicrosil investiture what to do). With regards to mixing Nicrosil Feruchemy with Allomancy, it sounds like, rather than a cool mana-battery, you simply get a way to make the burn last longer... though I eagerly await the Alloy of Law supplement and its Allomancy-Feruchemy mixing rules to confirm or deny this.

Getting back to the topic at hand... Lightsong's colours are Red and Gold, and Miles speaks of the men of Red and Gold... what's the timeline on this sort of thing, is there enough time between 'Warbreaker' and 'Alloy' that "The God who healed the God-king" could have become a legend? If enough time has passed, perhaps "The Men of Red and Gold" are a significant group on Nalthis, soon to discover Worldhopping and travel to Scadrial. Regardless of their intentions, I can see aliens from another planet with strange magics as being threatening to Miles and other Scadrians. What of the metal? Endowment's God-metal, a metallic manifestation of a distillation of the Tears of Edgli perhaps? Just some crazy ideas.

Theory 2 isn't new... once again, you and I have a case of great minds think alike: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3365-identity-regional-magic-and-feruchemy/#entry55208 But Brandon has said that Aluminum Feruchemy can theoretically allow you to access someone else's metalminds with proper manipulation.

Thank you kindly. And if this is the case, I wonder if it is going to be one of Brandon's little tricks, like Zane's mouth coins... Which is what I meant when I suggested there were at least four "flavours" of Hemalurgic Steel... Steel, to our present knowledge, steals (lol) only physical Allomancy, which means presently we know of four "flavours".

Up vote for the most interesting response thus far. I hadn't considered Aluminum, and I think you're right on the proverbial money with your comparison to a Coinshot learning to see and influence metal inside other living beings.

Yes, we know. The purpose of this thread is to examine why, from a Duralumin-surge point of view, the eye spikes and the ingested reserves are considered separate burns. Are they separate due to location, or because the metals are fundamentally different (because one is charged by Hemalurgy, in much the same way as a Feruchemically charged metal is different from its uncharged brother) or both.

In brief: There are some situations in which burning Duralumin doesn't chew up an Allomancer's entire supply of directly burnable metal (metals not in vials, but immediately burnable) when the surged reserve is consumed. This leads me to theorize that there are ways to "cheat" Duralumin. The argument: Burning Duralumin as well as another Allomantic metal chews up your entire reserve of that metal and gives you a burst of power. This we know. Some Hemalurgically spiked individuals used Duralumin (Zane, Marsh, etc). This we also know. Further we know that it is possible to burn a Hemalurgic spike while it is in your body: 17th Shard: Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes? Brandon: (sighs) I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it. The question is of course, why doesn't a Steel Inquisitor, burning both Duralumin and... say... Steel... burn up their own spikes? There are two answers that I can see: A. Hemalurgic Spikes, due to their invested nature, are overwritten in much the same way that a metalmind is. The Steel spikes don't count as the same reserve because you're burning Duralumin with Allomantic Steel (which is obviously identical to real steel given that the metal itself is just a key, not the source of power, let's move on) not Hemalurgic Steel1 or Feruchemical Steel. The key point here is that the metals are distinguished because the Steel the Inquisitors burn is 'blank', but their spikes are not. B. The spikes count as a separate reserve to the ingested metals due to location or disassociation with the ingested reserves. This is the far more awesome explanation2 because it implies that there are ways to "cheat" Duralumin... to gain a burst without burning up all your metal reserves. For example, if Inquisitors can burn their spikes while they are still in the body, it suggests that someone could burn an uncharged steel earring3 or some other metal source separate to the particular reserve in the digestive organs. Note that these answers are not mutually exclusive. It could both be true that location/disassociation separates metal reserves, and also that kinds of charge separates reserves. For example it may be true that an Allomancer-Feruchemist-Hemalugist burning Duralumin and Steel, who has also ingested a Steelmind and Steel Spike, would lose only the 'blank' Steel; but it could equally be the case that that same Allomancer-Feruchemist-Hemalurgist would not lose their uncharged Steel earring, not because of a difference in charge, but because the earring represents a distinct reserve of the same metal. FOOTNOTES 1 I can see there being four flavours of "Hemalurgic Steel" based on the power the Steel holds... but there are other threads discussing the interesting, and usually unhealthy things which happen when you burn a Hemalurgic spike, and so I won't discuss this further. 2 Which is obviously not a measure of its truth value, but still... 3 Unless of course the digestive organs provide a sort of spiritual gateway which is mimicked in the act of spiking someone (which is essentially spiritually stapling), and it is this connection to the spiritual which uniquely allows for the burning of metals.

I too started out thinking along the lines of installing metal 'nodes' throughout the body, but from what I read (googling 'metals in the body') the metals would degrade over time, is that not the case (you sound more knowledgeable in this)? Or are there places in the body, or ways of treating the metal that would prevent this breakdown?AoL and Mistborn Spoilers. I wonder if the metals being invested Feruchemically prevents this breakdown in the same way I assume being invested Hemalurgically prevents breakdown for Inquisitor spikes. Afterall, Marsh has been hanging around for 300 years, I would have imagined his spikes would have corroded somewhat.