andyk

Just read through the story and realised how many 'ain't's McKee uses. Now they're all going.

Does anyone have any tips, from WE or elsewhere, on giving characters distinctive voices? I've been relying on accents in some of my recent writing, but that isn't always appropriate, and it's easy for it to slip into clumsy. So, other ideas?

Thanks folks, a bunch of useful insights as always. On the voice thing, I think the problem may be with Cooper. Her accent, and that of the troops, is meant to be a bit Yorkshire, while with McKee I aimed for a fairly broad American (I don't have much of an ear for more specific American accents). I put some 'ain't's into Cooper's dialogue based on a Yorkshireman I know, but I think it undermines the written accent, so they'll have to go. I may tone down the accent on both a bit, given how much that stood out. Because if I have to explain my intent then clearly it's not working. As a wider point, I think I need to look for tools other than accents to give characters distinctive voices - I've leaned on that quite heavily in my last few stories. If anyone's got any thoughts on this I'd love to hear them. Interesting point about gender from Guru Coyote. I had made a deliberate effort to achieve gender equality, but that goes against some expectations in this sub-genre, and I don't want it to pull people out of the story - if it doesn't feel natural it'll be counterproductive. I'll try to think of ways to make it fit better. Going to try for a more immediate external threat as well. It was interesting that this drew differing views, but on balance I'd like to draw attention away from the McKee conflict, make my intention less obvious. Given how positive you folks were, this has given me a boost and become my easy edit to start the day. I should be tidying up my submission for today, but that needs way more work before anyone but me sets eyes on it.

I'd like to submit another story next week.

China Mieville's New Crobuzon books probably fit the bill - Perdido Street Station, The Scar and Iron Council. The politics is different in each one, as they are to varying extents set in different parts of the world Mieville creates, but there's not much lords and ladies in any of them. The technology level is largely Victorian - there are steam trains and guns - but it's definitely fantasy rather than steampunk, with strange races and some interesting magic. His take on elementalism in Iron Council goes to some particularly interesting places. Maybe Stephen King's Dark Tower novels as well - I haven't read them yet, but I hear good enough reviews that I've got them sat by the nightstand. And if you're after Roman fantasy then, in a moment of self-interest, I'm going to point out this story I had published on the Wily Writers website this month: http://www.wilywriters.com/blog/live-by-the-sword-by-andrew-knighton/

That would be great, thanks. Despite being English I've only ever made it north of the border once, so my attempt to write Scottish accents is largely based on Garth Ennis comics and episodes of The High Life - I'm under no illusions that that makes my dialogue convincing. I'll see if I can attach the file to private a message.

This week's submission from me is a military scifi short story. Looking forward to seeing what you all have to say about it.

Wow, that's quite a challenge. Well done on sticking with it so far.

Thanks folks. I've tried to improve the accents, mostly by toning it down., taking the words and grammar approach. Guru Coyote - thanks for the suggestions on other sections. I submitted the story to a market last week, but if it gets rejected I'll look at fixing those bits before it goes out again.

It's almost a cliché to say this at the moment, but Tyrion Lannister from George R R Martin's Song of Ice and Fire is one of my all-time favourites. His background is a weird mix of extreme advantage and extreme disadvantage. He's smart, insightful and entertaining, and cuts through a lot of the nonsense other characters weave around him without turning into the sort of manipulator so common in those books. I also have a soft spot for Logan Ninefingers and the other ageing barbarians who are a regular feature of Joe Abercrombie's books. They usually have a nice mix of cynicism, determination and grim humour to them. I have to admit that the only one of yours I'm familiar with is Thomas Covenant. I found him really interesting, though not very likeable, and he made a refreshing change as a lead character. But I didn't really like the prose style, so didn't get past the first book.

I'd like to submit something next week.

Oh, and I really liked the title. It intrigued me from the start, and it's mix of menace and whimsy fit brilliantly with the Montague part of the story.

Like Trizee, I really liked the prose and characterisation, especially of Montague. I thought the conflicts and tensions the king brought up for him were well done. I found the king himself a bit inconsistent. For example, why did he make a fuss about payment? If Montague can afford to charge that much, surely a king can afford to pay that and far more? If this is the king's way of punishing the baker for the earlier behaviour, I think there should be some sign of that. The magic system was intriguing and well demonstrated. I loved the way it worked through the artistry of baking, and htere were some nice descriptions of the food. I could have done with a bit more description, both of the locations and of the characters. A couple of times the lack of earlier description led to things that confused me, like the princess turning out to by a young girl a whole page after being introduced, and the patisserie, which I'd taken for a shop, turning out to be a cafe. I also had a bit of a problem with the structure. It may just be because I've been thinking about this a lot lately, but for me the shifts in point of view didn't work. A story that seemed to be about Montague and his conflict with the king completely changed focus half way through, and though we saw the outcome of Montague's plan we didn't see him being challenged in achieving it, struggling towards his goal, whether he changed, or how he felt about the outcome being a girl's death. It almost felt like parts of two different stories - one focussed on Montague's mission of revenge, one on a family sliding towards tragedy. I was really interested in both, but even though they're part of the same set of events, the emotional pay-off for one isn't the same as the emotional pay-off for the other. Hope I've managed to explain that last bit properly. So two well written halves with characters I was interested in, but they didn't feel like they fitted together.

I liked the start of this, it was very evocative, although I could have done with a little more description to picture where this was happening and who the people were. I also liked the descriptions of the dreams, though like jParker I was confused about the jellyfish. But there didn't seem to be any progress from one dream to the next. They were just things Brion experienced, without changing or gaining any insight into what was happening to him. He wasn't fighting against the things happening to him, or against the invasion of his mind by the storyteller. That would have been fine if the dreams had just been one page, but they took up nearly half the story. I didn't get any sense of conflict or of a character struggling to overcome something, driving the story. Though Brion makes a change at the end there doesn't seem to be a reason for it, and I didn't know enough about what life he was leaving behind to feel the significance of this. Overall, I liked the writing style, was intrigued by the idea, the title and character of the storyteller, but think the structure needs some work.

Re archaeology, there's a big live roleplay campaign that's just started in the UK, Empire by Profound Decisions, in which exploring past lives and old memories looks set to be important in the religious plot. Essentially, past life visions and archaeological expeditions could shape what's regarded as religious truth and what remains heresy. You could play with similar themes in your setting. If the first person to touch the fingerbone of a long dead saint or prophet gets some of that person's memories, they might be able to prove a point of religion, claiming a particular doctrine as proven truth. Of course, if they're the only one who gets to see those memories then they could lie afterwards, raising all sorts of religious politics and intrigue.

The pacing on this seemed solid, and it felt like it was moving the plot along. The fact that the attack on Arlon was a distraction was an unexpected twist, in a good way. Like Mandamon, I liked that the priests were more resistance here, though I thought that they could have been even more challenging. Mahau and Neda persuaded the priests to let them in last time, and it would have been more interesting if they had to do something else this time - use trickery, or sneak in, or use magic to view the place, or... I don't know, whatever fits your setting. As it is, it feels a bit repetitive. The thing I didn't like about the priests' reaction was that they didn't seem to be doing anything themselves about their missing god. I would have expected them to do something when the centre of their lives vanishes, whether their own investigation or some religious response, but instead they just seemed to be waiting for Mahau to turn up and investigate. Just a small sign of them being active in this would have made them seem more real. As with the previous chapter, I could have done with more description. I didn't have any idea what Anroe's temple looked like, except a few details about his room, and I'm still very vague about Arlon's place. I also didn't know how the characters felt about things. Adding more of this to their PoV would have helped draw more me in more. I got confused when they started talking about sitting on the broken chair, especially after Arlon had fussed about how destroyed it was, but that was a minor detail. And again, Arlon's my favourite. He's the character with the clearest, most distinct voice, and in my opinion the most interesting personality. He added a spark to the conversations that made his parts the most enjoyable.

I agree with some of what the others said. This was an interesting idea, but the ending was abrupt and predictable. If we'd known more about Robert and his motives that might have helped. I struggled to empathise with Alan. I couldn't find much to like about him, and so many of the views and feelings he expressed early on were negative. There also weren't many details about his experiences - specific examples of bad dates, how he got into sexbots, happy memories and details of his sexbot days, anything to make him feel more substantial and likeable. That said, I liked the shift in his emotional state when he got access to a sexbot - he really seemed to come alive. I liked the hints of menace you put around Robert. There were also some good details that helped build the world up, like the self-parking cars and the ban starting in Japan. I think there's also a problem matching the ending and beginning. For most of the first half, the story seems to be about Alan's internal state, but there's not much sign of this facing conflict or change in the conclusion. The strand that becomes the finale, with Robert and his uncertain motives, isn't introduced until nearly halfway through. I'd have liked to have seen the early focus match the ending, one way or the other. Is the main drive of this story about character and a change in Alan's internal state, or about the event of his encountering Robert? I'm sure there are some episodes of Writing Excuses that'll help with this - look for stuff where Mary discusses Orson Scott Card's MICE quotient.

I think there's lots of interesting stuff you could do with this around identity. If someone keeps experiencing other people's memories, will they start to get confused about which are there own? If they absorb lots of memories from the same person, especially someone with a very strong personality, could that start to take over, either literally or because the recipient believes that person is taking over? On a grimmer note, what might users pick up just while eating lunch, if they're not careful (like the memories in the Chew comic books)? Could you even poison someone with bad memories? You could also make some really interesting plot twists where people pick up memories that don't necessarily give them skills but do lead them to learn things about others that they shouldn't - a woman learning about her husband's affair, politicians trying to touch each others' objects to gain memories for diplomatic leverage, battle plans imprinted on the table they were written on.

Morning all. Hope you had a good weekend. My submission today is a scifi short story. It flags for all the content tags, but the sex is indirect references and apart from cigarettes the drugs are metaphorical. My special concern with this is one of voice. Where I've tried to portray accents in the dialogue do they work? Is the central character's swearing too much? And as always, any comments you have on any aspect of the story will be appreciated. Thanks.

Really interesting idea. And I like that you're talking about using this for stories in different time periods. I think it would be cool to see how this magic fitted in with different historical periods and parts of the world, and with different attitudes to madness and hallucination in those different settings. Maybe the plant didn't grow well in aboriginal Australia, but what little they could get was used for dream walking, rather than being stamped on by the authorities. Maybe some of the outbreaks of madness we now attribute to ergot poisoning, and which were historically attributed to all kinds of things, were actually this drug and powers going awry. All those legends of vampires, werewolves and fey in the forest? Clearly folks with magic powers. Something else that occurred to me - how does this power affect people who suffer hallucinations for other reasons? Can they tap into the magic space and be affected by it? Or maybe they're passive observers, unaffected and unable to affect magic battles but able to bear witness? Even if other hallucinations are totally separate, I think that there's a great theme to be explored around madness, magic and the way the two have been treated over time.

I'd like to submit a story on Monday.

This is related to the thread about the best thing you've learned from Writing Excuses, but hopefully covers something different enough to have value of its own. I'm interested to hear what tool you've learned about from Writing Excuses that you're using right now. Why did you pick that, how's it working out for you, and have you run into any problems using it? The one I've been using a lot lately is seven point story structure. I used it because I knew that my pacing needed work and I wanted a structured way of building in highs and lows of tension. Because I'm mostly writing short stories, a single plot arc with a seven point structure pretty much carries me through the whole story. It's definitely improved my pacing, and helped make my story planning more effective and detailed. And I'm a planning type of writer, so that works for me. That said, after half a dozen stories done this way I'm starting to see a drawback. I'm writing a lot of stuff with similar structures. I haven't yet practised this structure enough to vary it much while keeping the underlying value, and I've wound up with several stories that have seven slightly disconnected scenes and map a little too neatly onto that structure. I think this is a limitation in how I'm using seven point, not the structure itself, but it's an interesting trap to fall into. My other big one's Mary's '500 words per person or place' lesson. I've started bearing this in mind because I'm aiming for some short fiction markets with tight word counts. It recently helped me kill a darling and tighten up a plot. I don't have so much to say on this. It's a useful guideline and has its uses in battling world-builder's disease, but I don't suffer from that too much anyway. So, what writing techniques are you folks using at present, whether from WE or elsewhere? Why did you pick them, and what have you learned?

I really enjoyed this. It drew me in with a strong opening and kept me interested. There were some great details, like the sticky teeth, that made the sensory stuff work. Like Guru Coyote, I started wondering about one or two practical details, like how immersed people paid their bills, but this never drew me out of the story and my questions were sometimes answered on the next page - like the bill paying thing. I know this isn't about those details, but referencing some of them might help to make it feel more real. I thought that the arguments got the characters across well, were convincing and sometimes thought provoking. I did think they were slightly over stated at times and a bit more direct than they needed to be. The tension I felt came from the inevitably of a tragic ending, not wondering how it would pan out. Except for a brief moment when I thought Karl might get addicted to the machine, I always expected them to break up because she couldn't let go of the simulation. If you wanted there to be doubt over this then you might want to show her almost breaking free. But like I say, the current approach creates its own sort of tension. I really liked the change of tense in principle - it added a sense of immediacy to the simulation scenes. However, in practice the shift between tenses made me very aware of the experience of reading, rather than just feeling the flow of the story. It meant that I thought 'this is clever writing' at the expense of losing some emotion. So it's got pros and cons. Oh, and I totally bought into the romance. It seemed like the best sort of relationship to explore this issue through.

I was pleased to find this chapter focusing on Arlon. As I mentioned on the last chapter, I'm finding him the most interesting character. I also liked the way we got a good insight into his mental state at the start, combined with a bit of scene setting. I didn't think you needed to move to first person and italics for those couple of sentences in the third paragraph - you've already got us effectively inside Arlon's head at that point, so I found this change jarring. Despite the initial scene setting - Arlon in bed in the morning with naked woman - I didn't develop a strong sense of what the bedroom was like. The same thing applied in the dining room scene. When you include description of the physical setting it's well integrated with action and thought, but there isn't enough of it for me to picture the scene. This became more problematic when there was action, with the attack on Arlon. There were a couple of bits I really liked that showed Arlon's character through the way he thought and spoke. First was where it didn't occur to him that his high priest might not want to pay for sex. And then there was the bit where, Forys having suggested that he go with Arlon, it occured to Arlon that he should bring Forys along, as if the idea was all his own. The appeal of this last bit may be personal - when I worked in business improvement I used to do this for real - suggest an idea to a manager, leave it, wait for them to think the idea was their own and suggest it to me. So to me it's telling about both characters. I found both scenes a bit slow. Not much happened in the latter half of the bedroom scene. Then the attack on Arlon and the conversation which followed it had potential for tension that wasn't quite there. In the attack, it was because of an extended bit of Arlon's thoughts, unbroken by any action. The conversation just seemed a bit too long for what it contained. I liked the resolution, the stubbornness Arlon showed and the way this gave him reason to work better with Mahau. I think it would have been even better if he was considering not working with Mahau, thus putting more at stake. Could you please send me the previous chapters of this? I'm enjoying it enough that I'd like to read more, and I think it would probably help in critiquing - even having read one chapter before helped me with this one.

Thanks folks. Plenty of good stuff for me to work on.