MarcieIsForager

Tbh i was kinda going between the two the reason i didnt think Valor was, whatever Nohadon was it was more subtle than i kinda expect Valor to be to encouragr Dalinar to bravery. And did more of Hoid thing of kinda getting Dalinar toward the right questions and answers which seems like more of a Reason rather than Valor thing to do but im guessing it wrong.

This just occured to me reskimming chapters could Nohadon be the Vessel of Reason hidden on Roshar the 4th Moon. Hence why Dalinars soul belonged to another.

Possibly because Kor spent so much time actively not partifcipating in God business, she mightve just missed the exact events and so sent Dalinar in for details she wasnt sure of.

El talks like super familiarly of the herald, which kinda leads me to believe hes one of the dawnsingers around for the human conquest. I think he might have written the Eila Stele

Do we know how old Hoid actually is, cause even like a spren of Adonalsium calls him "the ancient one"

This kinda opens up a cool question, do we think theres multiple colors of inkspren

Just curious is there WOB on this ive heard the thing about the Heralds more than once

Tbh i think this might be where the Death-Rattle: Would come to apply, i think Kaladin next to Dalinar might be closest character to Honor left to be able to decide a champion. Iirc Kaladin would also have the Letter of succession which i think is notarized too

Ah no its not that specifically its that the Eila Stele mentioned powers "of spren and Surges", i took that to mean that by the time the Eila Stele had been written that humans had managed to figure out Rosharan Surgebinding. So maybe this also has to do with how i read the Eila Stele because i honestly didn't read the first sentence as a history of humans, i read it as like a foreboding description, like "they are off-worlders and figured out rosharan-surgebinding which was forbidden from us" rather than "they are off-worlders that came here by Ashinite Surgebinding, which has been forbidden from us" Which then kind of messed up my internal timeline because it would mean the Honorblades predate the first cycle of Desolations. Mostly because i assume the Eila Stele is a Pre-Desolation writing.

So i kinda toyed with timelines and Rosharan history these past few days and something stuck out to me again. So theres a WOB saying the Heralds are the ages they appear as, and are all originally Ashynian. Which would mean the Heralds wouldve come about pretty much just after humanities arrival on Roshar. But before the Eila Stele was written, the Eila Stele speaks of what i interpret to be Spren-Surgebinding "of Surges and Spren" rather than Ashynian Surgebinding. And Rosharan Surgebinding was essentially Spren imitating the Honorblades. If Heralds in that case predate the conquering of Roshar by humans, they would also predate the Fused which could mean two things They received the Honorblades seperately from the Oathpact, or the Oathpact was originally different. The Stormfather spoke about breaking the Heralds if that was Tanavast poking through could it be forcing the Heralds into a role they didn't want during the initial conquest of Roshar.

When i made a timeline for theorizing i guessed 8000 years pre present, cause Taravodium said something about 8000 years. I assume might be when they got to Roshar

Hey do you by chance have the citation on it being the false desolation i dont have the book with me rn i just went off the coppermind article on relador that just used the word "desolations" with that i tbh just assumed that meant desolations proper and not just the false desolation. And tbf on the point of radiant noticing the change only prior to the recreance, Leras also took super long to like fully unravel so it wouldn't be weird for him to only show fraying millenia after the event. His death-event then by my estimation wouldve happened some 4500 - 5000 years ago and the actual death at the recreance or just after. I wouldn't be suprised if he managed to hold out those 2500 years and only full frayed just at the recreance. Leras death was also kind of exponential. A lot of centuries of minor unravels and then a few years of completely fraying. I think its in line with long shard death

So i just followed a thought tangent and got some really weird results. This is based partially on revelations by the sibling. It started out with me trying to place Nohadons lifetime cause i really liked the theory of Nohadon being the cognitive shadow in the SF and not Tanavast so i layed out the timeline as i understand it and there some really interesting stuff in there. So first off Honors death preparations must have happened before Aharietiam not just before the Recreance Cause Syls Radiant actually fought in the desolations. This could also add to the Stormfather saying he broke the Heralds cause by guess he wouldve been around close to his current form from likely before Aherietiam. And mightve played a part in the Heralds abondoning the Oathpact. Then at least some of the herals had to have been ageless prior to becoming Heralds Ishar was probably a dawnshard i would guess. Then if Nohadon actually lived (my guess is it would be some centuries after the siblings birth) to see thunderclasts during his lifetime (Dalinars extra vision), the singer souls must have fully deteriorated in a span of some millenium and a half i guess: This would mean Odium arriving with Human 7500 years ago -> Humans conquer all of roshar (i gave that some 500 years but it couldve been quicker) -> sibling is born 6000 years ago -> again i guessed 500 year gap for urithiru to gain the notoriety it has and also place Nohadons lifetime somewhere around there. Im sure i missed a lot of implications if someone with a bit more time on their hand could look over the timeline and add thing this could be really interesting cause im pretty sure the timeline we got now is mostly wrong or at least doesn't add up at all

The accelaration isnt the problem its mass and im like semi sure there no at least known way rn to fully negate mass unless you possible storm with connection enough to achieve negative mass.

Hey is it just me or was did Rushus interaction with the Sibling read in any way like Brandon actually confirming Rushu as Non-Binary

I love the addon of Tanavast actually having written TWOK rather than Nohadon. Lirin being Tanavast has been a pet theory of mine forever and i love that its becoming more and more plausible as time goes on. The thing that actually really sold me as of this book is Szeth actuall calling Kaladin by a patronymic something he usually doesn't do for Alethi characters afaik, and Kaladins only other patronymic epiphet being 'Son of Tanavast'

It would explain something ive been wondering about for a while, mainly the shardic alignment of surges basically only aligning with Honors Bondsmith and other Bondsmiths seemingly being out of place in the chart, now if they actually werent true surgebinders or at least not a true order that would explain a lot of thing.

The last shame still gives hope to my pet theory that Lirin is the descended Tanavast in hinding

No idea if it was intentional foreshadowing but in Dalinars first vision we hear the exclamation 3 Gods for the first time. A scene with a WINDrunner and a STONEward fighting MidNIGHT essence

That was my bad on wording thats what i was actually referring to.

Do we have an actual mechanical explaination why shards cant break oaths. Like i considered a few angles: Intent as in it would go counter to the Shards Intent to break an Oath, tho tbh i can only see that apply to Honor, Preservation maybe, Autonomy too perhaps, but not really Odium, Ruin, Cultivation. Then i thought it might be an incantion like something that purposebinds the power with a very specific command, but those require intent and if you full intend to break the oath anyway that wouldn't do anything im pretty sure. I dont think its just peer pressure from other shard, like maybe for some agreement but like surely not all. And then my pet theory, the shards dont have perfectly pure intent but actually have other shardic intent inbuilt as failsafes, like an Honor component that kinda gives an autoimmune response the moment a shard directly breaks an oath, which then gives other shard oppertunity to attack you, tho thats also shaky cause presumably you could excise it if you do it right.

I do actually hope we get into how Oaths bind shards the way they do. I assume there has to be a way shards fight other than just launching full power assaults. This could be really cool and kinda reminds me of "The oldest game" from Sandman

Way long ago i had a crackpot theory that Lirin is some aspect of Tanavast with how he basically foreshadows Kaladins oaths, is prolly the most principled character in all off stormlight etc. But these sample chapters basically confirmed this to me. When Szeth called Kaladin Kaladin Son Lirin for like no good reason other than being Shin and even then he i dont think weve seen him call Alethi by patronyms Especially when Kaladins only other Patronymic epiphet is Son of Tanavast. I think ill die on this hill

Like say Harmony were to during like Cosmere endgame invest Roshar and create like Ruin/Preservationspren and maybe a mix. Say Harmony/Discordspren. Could they be bonded and create a Radiant. Like maybe if the Honor component is strictly necessary for a nahel bond you could have like 90% Preservation 10 % Honor. Do we actually have something on that?

d So ive been looking at the Surgebinding chart way longer than i should and was bouncing around ideas for wind and truth and kinda wanted to write them down. So what kinda stuck out to me is the relationship lines between the orders which are beginning to look like three types of relationship: Shares a Surge: Windrunner/Skybreaker Skybreaker/Dustbringer Dustbringer/Edgedancer Edgedancer/Truthwatcher Truthwatcher/Lighweaver Lightweaver/Elsecaller Elsecaller/Willshaper Willshaper/Stoneward Stoneward/Bondsmith Bondsmith/Windrunner Those are the Obvious ones Every order has a relationship with the Order opposite them on the chart Windrunner/lightweaver Skybreaker/Elsecaller Dustbringer/Willshaper Edgedancer/Stoneward Truthwatcher/Bondsmith Im not actually fully sure on these ones, i was thinking there might be push and pull and internal/external dynamics going on here. And then theres the last ones Stoneward/Lightweavers Windrunners/Edgedancers These are the ones i really can parse: Whats kind of apperent is: Stone/Wind: Something about the Old Gods of Roshar Another idea is that capital L Light and capital E Edge might also be some highly relevant spren like stone and wind Tho tbh i wouldn't know what Edge would tho something to do with Rhythms is my best guess rn Spiritually Adjacent orders lightweavers & edgedancers to truthwatcher stonewards & windrunners to bondsmiths Shardic alignment Edgedancers and Windrunner are most diametrically shardicly aligned Lighweavers and Stoneward might also have a cultivation/Honor dynamic Stoneward(cultivationy) Lightweaver(suprisingly honor adjacent) Im honestly not sure at all anyone have some thoughts for that last group