Underwater_Worldhopper

Okay, wow. The entire idea of a doomed planet mid-catastrophe, burning fields of heat and lava, a shattered moon raining down, and evil, hostile Splinters is amazing. It's loud, it's bold, and it demands your attention. I liked the concept of invasive bonds especially, it's something we know is possible thanks to Spore-Eaters and Re-Shephir, but nothing that we've seen in effect before. The fact that they rend tears into your soul to create accommodations for themselves is uniquely unsettling, and I love it. The religions, in particular, were a great touch, I love the different ways lore and legend from the original event developed into similar but differing ideas. However, I do have some nitpicks What is the axial position of the planet? You say it's "just a few degrees", but is that just a few degrees off from an upright position (like Earth), or from a horizontal position (like Uranus)? I first thought it would be the second one, like Uranus, as you mentioned that the axial tilt of the planet, as well as the ring system, keeps the Moonfall Ridge area completely blocked off from the sun. If Vantlar was just a few degrees off having a horizontal tilt, that would mean that half of the equatorial ridge would be in the dark thanks to its own shadow, with the ring system blocking the light coming from the star-ward side. This creates problems, like a year-long day-night cycle, but I thought that was just how this planet works. Later, however, you say that there are no polar circles and no polar day-night cycles. Which one is it, and what does that mean for the Ridge and the Poles? Secondly, what does the orbit of the Core of Ortagon look like? It's the primary source of light for at least the Ridge, and I presume for quite a bit of the equatorial region too. Does its orbit match the rotation of Vantlar, and it only illuminates one part of the planet perpetually, or does it orbit at a different speed, illuminating different parts of the ridge, but only one at a time? What is the origin of all the Valorium? Creating a God Metal is a deliberate process, and it's hard to make one without the Shard itself (WoB frustratingly unavailable at the moment). The only known time God Metal was produced not by the express will of a Shard was the Pits of Hathsin, which Preservation made specifically to do so, and even that kind of doesn't count because a Shard was still involved. So was all that Valorium already on Ortagon and it's just now raining down on Vantlar, or did Valor intentionally turn it into a God Metal as or before it escaped? How often does Valorium land on Vantlar? Is it sporadic or constant but slow? How is Valorium recovered from the boiling depths? How quickly does it decay? How much sheer Investiture is falling out of the sky that enough of a metal that disintegrates with heat survives the heat and destructive friction of entering the atmosphere, then the impact, then boiling hot water to be used in making ships and Weapons? If chunks of that much Investiture are just flying around, and can sometimes form Perpendicularities when/after entering, does that not mean Vantlar is surrounded and orbited by Perpendicularities in space? How does Valorium hold its shape while it's being integrated into a ship or weapon, if it's that malleable? How do Valorium Ships survive the heat? What are the Ships made of anyway? Is there wood on Vantlar that can survive the heat of boiling water for so long? Following from that, you said that the Valorium is in a closed system, with it reforming in the Rings to come shooting back down. Why? Should the Investiture not be returning to the SR, and to Valor, as it's used? A possible solution for this could be that Valor made a Pits of Hathsin-esque way for Valorium to be produced on Ortagon, and that process is still being carried out in whatever's left of the moon in the rings, but I'm sure there's a reason already. How did Spirits come to be? Did they exist on Ortagon, and were dragged to Vantlar by their Connection to the chunks of Ortagon that landed there? What purpose did they serve on Ortagon? Or did they form after Valor left, from the suddenly unoverseen Investiture? Why is there so little life in the oceans? Hydrothermal vents get up to 371 degrees C in temperature, but there's tons of life around them. Would the water not be colder the deeper you go anyhow? If there is next to no axial tilt, and no seasons, why are the conditions on poles less extreme? Anyway, I also have some questions about Vantlar and Ortagon. If ancient Ortagon was inhabited, why wasn't Vantlar? How long has it been since Ortagon got destroyed? What do the Spirits look like? Why are they so eager to bond with humans? What do they gain by entering the CR, and what do they do there? What did Vantlar look like before Valor left? What was the name of the catastrophe? We have Desolations/Returns, The Recreance, and Aharietiam from Roshar, the Catacendre from Scadrial, the Manywar on Nalthis, and the Reod on Sel. Something as dramatic as a moon tearing itself apart should definitely have a cool name. How do Vantlarians know what a Dragon is/looks like? Was there a Perpendicularity on Ortagon? Did anyone living on it previously survive? If a Fearless got access to something like Unkeyed Dor, how much more powerful would their powers become? What do Spirits look like when they're summoned by a Fearless? Can a Fearless summon one as a Shardweapon, and will it work like a Shardblade? I feel that if it's possible for them to become physical, they shouldn't be able to cut like Shardblades, but maybe you've prepared a reason for why they can. Loved this entire concept, so cool! Edit: Just saw the map, that's awesome. How did you make it? Also, is the Moonfall Ridge a ring around the North, or is it an equatorial ridge? Edit 2: I just now realized that I didn't write down any of the ideas I had for dealing with the heat and whatnot. Oh well, I'll add it to the next post.

There've been other WoBs that say that the Connection isn't necessary, so it's uncertain whether it's required. There are differing opinions on whether Regular Mistings can burn their adjacent God Metal Alloys because the WoBs have been really unclear about it, but I personally think they should be able to.

Oh my GOD am I excited for whatever you're cooking up. We really should engage more of the Sharders in creative writing, I feel like with so much theory crafting and knowledge some of the people on here have, we could end up with some seriously cool ideas. Can't wait! I'll see what I can make in the meanwhile, but I'll wait till you post yours so it doesn't take away anything from yours. Probably won't be able to come up with anything worth comparing to 6.5 pages' worth of Alder genius anyway in a day or two anyway, so we'll see. Looking forward to reading it whenever you end up posting it!!!!!

That's an awesome dream. I love the idea of evil Crimson Splinters that can and will physically harm you. I'd like to see if I can develop this idea, if you'll allow it. Not sure how similar it will end up being to whatever @alder24 is cooking up, but this combined with the idea of a Shard leaving a planet behind is really inspiring me.

Day 50(ish): A-Tin/F-Zinc (Increased senses + Store/tap speed of thought) Lucky combo for a first draw. These two have pretty obvious synergy. Increased senses, plus the increased speed of thought to sort through and glean as much information from those senses as possible. This would be great for a spy or criminal (as a lot of Twinborn are, to be honest). You can be far more aware of your surroundings than an ordinary criminal, and able to think much faster to get yourself out of situations, or to come up with lies on the spot. But they're also very useful for a detective, able to find clues and evidence at crime scenes and connect dots quickly. Not only that, I think it has great synergy in a fight too. We see from Spook that Tin can help you fight by literally sensing the way the wind changes around you. Obviously, Spook was a Savant, so he was more sensitive to that kind of input when others might not be, but F-Zinc makes up for that, and you don't necessarily have to reach Savant level before you can replicate things like that. The additional F-Zinc boost just takes it a whole league further. Resonance: The ability to know when they are being watched, not foolproof of course, but like a worse version of Life Sense. A sharpened sixth sense, if you will. Name: Vigilkeeper Rating: Not the best, but definitely leagues above most other combos. Solid 9

That works too, it makes for more detailed storytelling. I'm really looking forward to this one.

Sounds pretty cool! Hope to read it soon If you need help with the magic, I'm always here to help I immediately fell in love with the idea of A Shard having Invested in a planet and then left, leaving Investiture behind. It's such an obviously amazing setting that I'm mad I didn't think about it. It would make the perfect setting for a horror magic system, like Threnody or For. Real. Whimsy made it himself, so that's pretty much it. Magic do how magic do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I did some research into whether a larger planet could have lower gravity but a thicker atmosphere, and it was surprisingly feasible. The only problem was density, which I'm not entirely sure about, so I'm gonna chalk it up to how Whimsy made the planet. Maybe it just has a lot of Lithium instead of the denser elements. It attracts all Investiture and provides it with an Intent. You can indeed change its cohesion and tension, as well as its state of matter. You can't turn it from one material to another though. But speaking of Soulcasting, something I forgot to mention in the original post was that things on this planet, contrary to the general rule of "Invested things are harder to Soulcast", Invested things on M-T-N are actually easier to Soulcast, because the Investiture already wants to affect change, it actually ends up helping the Soulcasting process. One other thing I forgot to mention was that clouds on Melech are actually iridescent because of the way the Investiture streaming off the Sun, moon, and rings scatters through the clouds. It's based on an actual phenomenon: Anyway, what Shard should I do next?

Invention: I'm tacking Whimsy onto this post, but that sounds like an amazing idea. I'd love to hear more about it, if you're willing. But seriously, why do the best ideas only come late at night? I spent all day racking my head trying to figure out how to incorporate the magic system I had in mind with no result, and then come 2 am everything just clicked while I wasn't even thinking about it. Anyway, (finally) Whimsy: And there we have it, Whimsy's magic system. Thoughts?

The specificity is indeed a little suspicious, but so far we have nothing explicit.

The page itself says that it does not affect the gemstone. Silver could affect Fabrials, but so far as we know, it does not.

I've been spending a lot of time thinking about the nature and synergy of different Invested Arts lately (mostly because I've been creating some of my own for the Combined Shard Names thread) and I'm a bit confused. A-Copper is rather cut and dry in what it does. It blocks Allomantic Pulses, and it makes the Smoker immune to Emotional Allomancy. But when you consider it, what is is doing to cause those effects? It also blocks Life sense, can presumably block a Singer from accessing the Rhythms, and can block your thoughts from detection (presumably). How does that work? I'm having trouble following what exactly it's doing, Realmatically. Thoughts?

No new posts on this thread for a while, Should I take over posting for a bit, @cometaryorbit, @Koloss17?

Magic, the ultimate answer. But I'm tempted to leave it as is and then have the Nirans and Verdasans deal with a Bi-planetary crisis Suppose they still count as Planets then, if small ones. I liked the idea of just two tiny moons orbiting each other, but my handle on physics is shaky at best, so I'm not gonna mess with it because two small planets work just as well. Sadly, we'll just have to make do with media I went back and checked, I indeed did not. I put so much thought and effort into this one, I drew out spiderwebs of spiderwebs to link all the random ideas I had together into a single magic system and planet. Some things, like Chromium and that particular tidbit slipped through the cracks. Great, everything works! I wanted it to be more the animals than the bacteria themselves, but it achieves the same general effect, so I'll take it. a bit of both. 50/50, I'd say. Just to be clear, I mean half of them are saltwater and half are freshwater. The idea I had was to have some sections of the deeper caves just be entirely flooded, with tons of hydrothermal vents made specifically by Invention to allow for life to grow there. This would solve both the heat problem and allow for life to exist down there without any specific light sources, though some of the caves I had devised had giant mushroom-like fungi and plants that glowed brightly. It was part of why the Dwellers have eyes (I call them eyes, but they aren't really. It's more like photo-sensitive sensory organs that can tell when luminosity is increasing like we detect temperature. Not as anything visual, but an innate feeling). As part of their life cycle, growing fungi release spores that carry on the wind and infect Dwellers. Once a spore gets inside, the unique interaction between the spore's specialized structure and the inside of the Dweller's body allows the spore to access the Spiritual Realm and use Investiture to grow enough to take over the body of the Dweller in a matter of minutes, kind of like what Cordyceps does. It compels the Dwellers to seek out where the fungus is, and then just lie there until it decomposes. The fungus thingy then uses the decomposing carcass to fuel its growth. Once two or three carcasses pile up, the Fungus has enough food to allow it to grow fully. The "eyes" are so that they can stay away from the natural habitats of the Mushrooms. There are certain areas that have developed life (independently from each other, or at least having branched off evolutionarily a long time ago), but the caves, especially the higher ones, are indeed devoid of life except for the Dwellers, who only roam those areas. I'll keep it just for you then, but it sounds too much like moonshine for my tastes. Precisely. That's just how I interpret Invention's Intent, I like that it's a little dangerous. The figures aren't exact, but I want it to scale quickly, so that there's a steep price for the more impressive Inventions. It also means that while you can still get away with big Inventions on Nirah and Verdas (there really should be a collective name for them) due to how easy energy is to come by, you're not going to be able to use Inventions even near that scale elsewhere, which keeps it from becoming overpowered in the face of other planets. Fair, I run out of ideas quickly too Edit: Update on the Whimsy one, I've consolidated my ideas into a coherent thread, and all I need to do now is post it. That'll probably have to wait till tomorrow though, cuz it's late at night for me. Should I work on a Valor Magic system next, or go back to Hybrids? Leave any Hybrid suggestions if you have them, I'll see what I can do.

I can see where you're coming from, but naming a child after Reen just seems like forgiveness and a final acknowledgment of everything he did for her. Reen was still young when he had to deal with the responsibility of protecting his sister from criminals and thieves, not to mention trying to keep her from being tracked down and brutally slaughtered by the Inquisitors. All his abusive behavior pounded incredibly useful instincts and habits into Vin, and he left even comfortable or profitable situations to keep her safe when the Inquisitors came close. He could have abandoned her time and time again, but though he threatened it to keep her on her toes, he never did. Even when he got captured by the Inquisitors and tortured for days on end, he never gave up that she still lived. The instincts he instilled in Vin helped her a lot. He saved her from their mother, took her safety upon himself, and never failed her. Given his age, lack of resources, and the burdens he was bearing, he did an unfathomably good job.

That was my first instinct as well, but it just seems weird to me that there's this extra cost of being extremely tired when you stop tapping on top of all the other time you spend comatose. It adds an extra negative to what should be a balanced system, and it triggers my OCD. It feels more Ferchemy-like if you return to whatever state of consciousness you were in when you started tapping, which is what @Shadeshadow227 was getting at.

It doesn't have to. The moons of Roshar are unstable too, they'll crash into one another or something after a while. And god only knows what's going on on Lumar. so long as it remains stable for the current moment, it should be fine. They orbit each other, as well as orbiting the star and blackhole together. I suppose they would just count as small binary planets, I just call them moons to get the idea across that they're small. There are some engines that can do that, I think. It's really trippy. I sidestepped all of that in my head by just assuming Invention liked the idea of binary planets and created Nirah and Verdas around a preexisting system with a circumbinary sun and black hole, which I swear I mentioned somewhere in the original post. I think we'd have to mess with the scale of the system a lot to allow for the black hole to have formed from a collapsing star, so let's say that it was captured. The sun would be far enough away from the Black hole's accretion disk to remain unaffected, without getting so far away as to affect the general orbit of Nirah and Verdas. In my mind, they orbit the star and BH as if they were one astronomical mass in the center. I like the idea of gravity being low a lot. I'd used up all my brain cells coming up with a magic system that worked so I was just trying to make the rest of the planet as basic as possible. But the low-gravity environment requiring magi-tech for offworlders works really well. We can augment that into it, so the bacteria need iron to exist and the local life is adapted to the high concentration of it, like you said. That'll also make it just impossible for the bacteria to start propagating in the Verdasan oceans. I thought of that. I've scaled up basically all of the marine animals and plants to allow for this, and the ones that can't be scaled up will just be really abundant. I figured, but I really liked the idea of a planet where bioluminescence is insanely common in the water, so much so that it's visible from the shore and surface, so I'm gonna fudge the physics here and say that just by nature of having been produced from Investiture, the light is able to pass unobstructed through the bacteria. They were recreations of Yolish species by Invention. Small ones, surrounded by land on all sides, with the biggest maybe as big as the arctic ocean. I wanted there to be more land than water on Verdas, to contrast Nirah. That's what I was getting at, that it was created to have a way to generate a strong magnetic field without tectonic activity. Although, because what I was really after was a lack of plate tectonics, there just as easily could be regular tectonic activity to produce the field. It definitely goes deep, enough to hide several different ecosystems and 2 whole families of giant animals (As of what the Verdasans have discovered so far ) so well that they're mostly regarded as myths or folklore. I have several different ideas for what the caves themselves are like, differing biomes and microbiomes and such in the different caves and the like, but I haven't given them much analytical thought. I know, but evolution just took them down a path that allowed them to develop highly light-sensitive eyes, which they can coincidentally use to stop themselves from straying too far near the entrances of the caves, plus it helps them avoid humans, who undoubtedly always bring light with them into the caves. It's why they can evade humans so easily, along with their incredible sense of smell and hearing. Autonomy cheats anyway. Not to say that Invention doesn't whisper ideas into the dreams of particularly bright engineers and Inventors that earn his interest, but the Nirans just have such easy access to energy that makes their rise to industrialism astonishingly quick. I had originally just thought it would make interesting political intrigue, and the kind of family dynamics that would rise from some children literally, intrinsically being more valuable than the others, not to mention siblings killing each other for actual magical powers. But now that you mention it, I really want to see a separate thread all about how different individuals would fare against one another with the magic systems we make here. Kaladin vs a Chosen, a Sadist vs a Lightbearer, a Mindgrappeler vs a Delegator's Squires, etc. They were rich, yes, but they were also bound to morality and justice through the nature of their oaths, not to mention they had two Shards presiding over them. Not to mention you could become a KR by going to Urithiru for recruitment and becoming a Squire. ELantrians were generally benevolent, and anyone could randomly become one, so they were morally balanced. There's nothing like that here though. It's the same families in control, their wealth, power, and influence accumulating with generations. There isn't even a randomness factor to it, with Lightbearers popping up among the lower classes, it's predictable and regular, and replaceable so long as you can have more children. If the Lightbearers agree amongst themselves, they can go on strike and essentially grind the economy and industry to a halt. I'm gonna say no to Niran Fabrials, because I want the two planets to have to work together, so Invention (the Art) provides the real Fabrials. Technology won't be Earth-like, but there would be some similarities. I want it to be dependent on the Lightbearers, so I'm gonna say they produce the electricity themselves, though they can convert enormous amounts of Seashine (maybe I should change the name, it seems a little clunky to me) into lots of electricity very quickly if they want to. They would have batteries at the very least. Inventions can be made to replace Lightbearers in the Investiture-energy conversion, but depending on the type of story you want to tell, that hasn't been deduced yet. It was a deliberate choice made by the rich and important families to ensure that several Lightbearers were absolutely going to be among the first to contact the Other-Worlders, so that they could scope out what the planet was like and begin making preliminary constructions and make sure they profit off of the new planet. Yeah that's a much better idea. Yes. The more advanced applications require Intent, but the beauty of Invention is that it's entirely mechanical and built around the natural quirk of Venium, so the basic Inventions can be made by someone entirely by accident too. Technically, if you put a chunk of iron right next to a small piece of Venium and leave a sufficiently hot lantern next to it, it will count as an Invention and begin attracting Investiture. If you want an Invention that can convert Haze into light, heat, or electricity though, that'll require Intent. No. It is very difficult for an Invention to affect another Invention. Even outside of that, Pewter could not supress another Invention, that's something only Aluminum can do. Also, I'm so stupid, I just realised that I never added the effect of Chromium on Venium on the list. It undoes Corruption. Did you mean End-Neutral the second time? And yes, it's the heat that's being converted into Investiture. The Venium is not used up at all. Note that the conversion only ever happens at a specific temperature, which is linked to the size of the Venium. So if a 5cm³ Venium cube converts heat into Investiture at 70 degrees Celsius, a 10cm³ cube of Venium would convert at 140 degrees, and so on and so on. It means that the smaller Inventions aren't very powerful in terms of Investiture but are very power efficient, whereas the large ones can produce incredible effects but require insane amounts of energy to use. Heating Venium up faster than it converts heat into Investiture will make it surpass its specific temperature requirement, at which point it will stop producing Haze and can instead be forged. Thanks :3 Also, I'm ironing out an actual planet and Invested Art for Whimsy, but I need to figure out a new mechanic that will use Investiture to decrease a person's weight. Any ideas??

I agree, but my question was on tapping, not storing. Let's say you have a full Bronzemind. You get an excellent night's sleep, and are wide awake and fresh. Then you tap the Bronzemind, and keep tapping for a week straight, without sleeping. Once you stop tapping, do you return to being wide awake and fresh, or was that rest used up in the background during the first day of the week and you just didn't notice because of the influx of wakefulness coming from the Bronzemind?

Makes sense, thanks! I was just wondering whether your original restfulness is also used up in the process. Like if you were well rested originally, then tapped a Bronzemind to stay awake for a week straight, would you not be tired when you stop tapping, or did that original restfullness be preserved somehow?

Not to mention that DID as a disorder is hard to become aware of from the perspective of the patient. But there are mentions of "others" that Shallan stuffs away, so I think it's implied that there are more alters than just the core trio that we see, which, although it isn't direct proof, implies that she's been fracturing for some time now. I feel like the most telling thing about the existence of other alters is how easily she just dissociates from things she doesn't want to face. It isn't a direct indicator, but the level to which she does it could mean that someone else fronted. That's only speculation though.

@Stigmadiabolicum try not to post on any threads older than 6 months, as it is technically against site rules. That said, Molly could be a wink to the fact that Shinovar is radically different to the rest of Roshar, and that it is the most earthlike place in all of Roshar. In canon, it could be that the Ashynite language happens to be similar to real world English, just like Mistborn Spoilers: And Molly is just an Ashynite name that stuck around in Shinovar while dying out everywhere else, just like how all Rosharans other than the shin call birds Chickens, whereas the Shin call them by their actual names (eg Szeth calls one a parrot). Or it could be a placeholder, or just a false cognate that developed in Shinovar independent of English.

DID can manifest incredibly differently in different people, so it's hard to give broad umbrella statements. But yes, it's usually triggered by intense childhood trauma. The thing is, DID is a trauma response. Once your brain does it once and finds that it works, it can do so multiple times, in response to all sorts of stressful situations. It's not like a singular traumatic event triggers your personality to fracture, it's a coping mechanism, one that can be employed multiple times. Again, it differs from system to system, and even Alter to Alter. Some alters of some systems can consciously cause a new alter to form, but that isn't very common. There's also magic and Realmatics involved, so it may not be completely true to real cases. There aren't always amnesia barriers. Some systems are entirely blocked off from one another, and in others there is only amnesia between certain alters. And again, Shallan has access to magic, so. And there is some amnesia in Shallan, when one of the alters isn't aware about what the others are doing, the most notable example being when Radiant kills Ialai. Sometimes developing alters take after existing people, whether they be real or fictional, with varying degrees of accuracy, ranging from loosely inspired by to being an actual carbon copy recreation. I think Veil started off as a persona Shallan adopts while doing criminal or Ghostblood work, and then an alter formed around or adapted to that persona, one so accurate to the original idea that it makes it look like the persona itself split off from her and became an alter. A LOT of the things Shallan does aren't healthy (and some are downright unethical). It's largely fine, and @Exotwo did a good job of explaining it as well. Though it was Radiant who killed Ialai, not Pattern.

I'm willing to start brainstorming magic systems out for them anyway, just to see. My response: Re: Mindgrappling Now, onto the new Magic systems. This is gonna be one long post. Invention first, because it intrigues me. I even did Khriss-like essays on the planets, just to be proactive. That's all for me, I was going to make one for Whimsy and Valor as well, but it's already 1 30 am and it's a school night.

I think we're banking too much on Connections and oaths. I'll sprinkle some worldbuilding into this one, just to spice it up. Seosea (pronounced See-oh-see-ah), is a planet covered completely in barren wastelands. Vast deserts stretch across the entire planet, which lacks any oceans, lakes, rivers, or other bodies of water. The atmosphere is thin and doesn't do much to protect the land from the blinding, harsh radiation of the three stars that are locked in a stable orbit in the center of the solar system where Seosea itself is found. Life exists only in the basins formed by rings of mountains, which are few and far between. In each basin, there are glowing pits of Investiture that make the surroundings habitable, creating pockets of mild temperature, lush vegetation that grows incredibly quickly and reliant only on the Investiture itself, and constantly produces steam. Due to the nature of the habitable zones of Seosea, the steam remains trapped in the basin, resulting in frequent rain over only the basins themselves. The main method of travel between basins is the pits of Investiture, which are Perpendicularities. Splinters of Loyalty called Sezonim co-exist with the human inhabitants of the basins and constantly watch them. When someone displays true, unyielding Loyalty to something, A given Sezorah can choose to divest themselves of their Investiture and grant it to the human, giving them access to Mindgrappling, killing the Sezorah in the process. The Sezonim do not take morality into consideration when choosing someone to give the ability, only making judgments based on the amount of loyalty, devotion, and dedication they show to something. Mindgrappling, the Invested Art of Loyalty, gives one the ability to drain the color of objects to charge up their powers, then release them in a burst of Investiture in the Cognitive Realm, which can be directed at someone's Cognitive Aspect, inserting thoughts into their mind, called Whispers. Mindgrappling must be done with care and precision, as you cannot hear a target's thoughts, and each Whisper risks revealing what you are doing. The Whisper can be made to imitate a certain voice (usually the target's own, but not limited to only that). Whispers can usually only be sent to one person at a time, though the number of targets can be increased with practice. A Mindgrappler can Whisper to someone they cannot see, and do not need to know the target's exact location, but must be within a hundred feet of each other. Once you get farther than 100 feet from a Mindgrappler, the Whispers start sounding quieter and fainter. A Mindgrappler Savant (or one with access to a large amount of Investiture) can take control of insane or weak-willed people, as well as Hemalugists with a sufficient number of spikes. Mindgrappling is an End-Negative Art and thus has a very high Investiture cost. When near a Perpendicularity, such as those in the basins, they will work fairly well, but when not in their presence, they require other sources of Investiture. That's about all I could come up with for this one, It's like 2 am and I've been sitting on this reply for ages. Here you go, and let me know what you think about it. @Firesong Honor + Odium isn't necessarily War, that's only the name of their Hybrid Light. The Rhythms aren't based on what the Shard would be, as evidenced by Towerlight, which pulses to the Rhythm of the Tower, something any SInger would instinctively know just by hearing it. Honor + Odium is not necessarily War. It could be, but it's far from confirmed

Works for me, you just have to press enter twice after clicking on the end of the part you want to separate from the rest of the quote at the bottom. Stacking isn't the only art form that summons Hijo, it's just the most efficient (presumably) before the Hion Viewer dramas: They would be, but the Hijo aren't necessary for their survival. All they need in Hion, which the Hijo are happily willing to supply so long as they're given Hion-Viewer dramas to watch. A Yoki-Hijo is needed to draw the Hijo, then bind them into Fabrials that will work efficiently for years. The existence of the Father Machine (and the smaller prototypes) proves that mechanical means can also do so. The Hion-Viewers could easily be some kind of middle ground, a mechanical Art form so enticing that Hijo are willing to come and negotiate with regular humans, which we also know they can do because they contacted the people of Futinoro 30 years prior to Yumi's escape. The humans don't have a fun time surviving the disappearance of the Shroud, but they do manage to do so, mostly because the Hijo don't make the ground boiling hot. The book was meant mostly as a gift to his wife, who wanted more romance. The story made for a natural ending with the death of the shroud, even if narratively there was more to be made for content. True, but in real life, we've sprouted trees from 2000-year-old seeds, so it's not impossible, especially if the plants were Invested, which they likely were given how the tree works. Not to mention the plants aren't rooted to the ground, so the seeds could work in a totally different way. And the sun does seem to enter the ruins of Torio city, there are shadows being cast in the art of the scene of Yumi having a stack-off with the machine. The lack of a proper ecosystem would be difficult to get around, but the people of Kilahito have created spaceships, so while it would be tough, I think they would have access to the right technology for cultivating the seeds properly. possibly, though now that the FM can produce Hion properly, it may not need every single Hijo it can get its hands on. In that scenario, maybe it only recaptures escaping Hijo to stop them from getting help and recruiting the citizens of Nagadan or the other modern Komashians, and since Design knows nothing about whats going on, it doesn't bother with her. I doubt they meant to sabotage a civilization's entrance into the Cosmere, so it would likely be a second spaceship, or at least the first one after it returns. No, it was possible to consume them. Except, now you'd have a Nightmare that's as Invested as a Yoki-Hijo, freed from the control of the Machine, essentially making a new Yoki-Hijo. It wouldn't solve the problem. That's a good point about them reforming, but if they could reform at all, then it isn't worth it, because then you're putting a very dangerous person in a situation where they're guaranteed to fight back, and in so doing risk them realizing that they're stronger than you, all while not even getting rid of them in the first place. That isn't a better solution than keeping them trapped in a prison. And any Nightmare could kill them at any point, just like how that one Nightmare almost consumed Nikaro. But then you'd end up with a Yoki-Hijo-levels of Invested Nightmare, immune to the Father Machine, which is arguably worse, since they have a more extensive knowledge of what's been going on, and now have the power to fight back. I gave reasons for why it's not just an assumption. You're gonna have to cite a quote, because I'm pretty sure that while Liyun keeps things secret from Yumi, she never outright lies to her this way. Makes sense, but if there was a Fifteenth Yoki-Hijo, there would be 14 Connections as opposed to 13, which isn't the case. So either one Yoki-Hijo is dead somehow without leaving behind a Connection, or one of the other 13 was just pulled out of her prison through Yumi's stacking.

That is exactly it. I see a lot of people on the shard mistaking this to mean that Investiture repels Investiture, which isn't the case. That kind of thing is unique to Bavadinium/Trellium, and isn't a property of Investiture on its own. Instead, it's just common sense, and basic physics, if that. You can't more water into a glass that's already full, so it's harder to affect Invested things because you're trying to add more water to a glass that's already full. It's not the Investiture repelling each other, but the inherent difficulty of forcing more stuff into something that's already chock full of the stuff already. Also, diffusion applies here too. Investiture, just like fluid matter, flows from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration. That's why you can affect unInvested objects and things easily, but once the target is also Invested, you switch from something akin to diffusion to something akin to active transport, where effort is required to achieve an effect.