Underwater_Worldhopper

You're confusing identity with Identity. One is just a Cognitive phenomenon, a sense of self, and the other is the imprint your sense of self makes on your Investiture. A Feruchemist storing Identity doesn't stop being a person, it just means their imprint on their Investiture has been removed. Liyun can still Cognitively be Liyun the person without having her Spiritual Identity, which was evaporated when she died. I think what I said. Nothing in that entire scene, even the part you bolded, stands out to me as something more than just Painter doing specific mental exercises. Nightmare Painting isn't an Invested Art, it's a clever application of how perception affects Cognitive Entities in a way that looks like an Invested Art. It's just Painter holding a specific image in his mind and convincing himself that that's what the Nightmare looks like, that that's what the Nightmare is.

Don't have to be bullets necessarily, they could be larger and built to stop. Fracturing I don't think would be an issue here, in fact it might count as multiple Hemalurgic spikes and thus cause even more pain. I disagree about needing to be placed in a bind point to cause pain. The pain is precisely caused by not being in a bind point. We see spikes for the same powers in different bind points, so I don't think there's any difference in effect on which bind point you receive a spike. So long as the spike is not in a bind point, pain should be caused

I don't think a Connection is being formed. Nightmare Painting is all about perception and fear; the Painters are trained to remain calm because the Nightmares feed on imagination, and especially fear. That's why they ignore them while their "mental protections" are up. That's why when Painter "fixed a shape in his mind—a central powerful image", it draws the Nightmare's attention. It's an intentionally noticeable thought coming out of the blue from deliberately uninteresting ones. That's not him Connecting to the Nightmare in any way. Because Nightmares are Identitiless and formed without the oversight of a Shard, they're particularly vulnerable to other people's perceptions. Take Returned, for example. They physically change to match whatever the conventional beauty standards of society are, despite not being Connected to each and every person in said society, or even to the land itself. The same goes for Nightmares, but on a much more extreme level. By forcing himself to perceive a Nightmare in a specific way, the Nightmare itself changes to fit the perception. The perception has to be very clear and willful though, which is why Painting is used as a focus, because it takes elements from the form a Nightmare has already taken and forms an actual picture for you to look at, which makes it easier to also see the Nightmare as such.

It's a fun idea, but it's gonna be insanely hard to spike someone in the middle of combat with a gun, because the bindpoints are really precise. Then again, Hemalurgic spikes in the wrong place cause immense pain, so maybe you could create bullets out of a Spike and then shoot someone with it to set their soul on fire for a bit.

That's not right. I explained the Shardpaintbrush thing on a different thread already. Design specifically calls out that Painter isn't Invested any more than a normal person on his planet, artist or not, should be. Yumi, by contrast, is incredibly Invested, which was done to her by the Hijo at her birth, or soon after it. The artistic excellence in stacking rocks wasn't the cause for her power, it was her way of channeling the power she already possessed. Edit: Nikaro was never in the CR either. He was a CS in the PR.

He didn't make a Shardbrush. The form of Cognitive Shadows is determined by how they view themselves. What happened there was Painter making a paintbrush out of the same essence he was made of, because he viewed it as an extension of himself. He didn't create something new (he didn't have anything to create it from), he just views the paintbrush as part of himself, almost like another limb, which allowed him to manifest it. It was basically the same thing as if he sprouted another arm. Not something external, just an extension of the Cognitive Shadow state he was in. A better way of thinking of it is this: The Nightmares don't have bamboo leaves on them before Painter encounters them. Yet, with his training of visualisation and perception, channelled through painting, he manages to imprint that idea onto the Nightmare, and they begin sprouting leaves, eventually becoming bamboo entirely. The bamboo stalks and leaves weren't there previously, but through the power of perception, they were manifested onto the Nightmare. The same goes with Painter and his brush. He views it as so important to him, to integral to who he is, that it's literally a part of him (so far as Nikaro is concerned), which allows him to manifest one out of himself.

They're two different things. Shades and Nightmares are instances of Corrupted souls, which have a tendency to turn black. This is also seen in Nightblood, with his Breaths and other Investiture that he absorbs. Midnight Aether meanwhile is something completely different, it just happens to be the same color. As for why Re-Shephir can summon/control it, we just don't know.

Exactly. When it comes to magic systems, we can't really say one Shard copied another, since they form more based on the nature of the Shard than the Shard's direct wishes. Another thing to note is that Virtuosity wouldn't have existed as an important aspect of Adonalsium, not any more than any of the other hundreds of possible attributes a God-Like being could have. The 16 Shards aren't 16 fundamental parts of the Cosmere, they're random attributes of Adonalsium that were polarised against each other and separated in the Shattering. We know this because had things played out differently, a different number of Shards could have been plausibly produced, with different Intents.

Lightweaving originated on Yolen, before Shards existed. But it does align with Virtuosity's Intent.

I personally like the idea that Virtuosity Splintered herself in imitation of the Shattering, it lines up very nicely with the 16 maximum Yok-Hijo, but I just don't think it's likely. The Yoki-Hijo are entirely too UnInvested to be holding an entire sixteenth of a Shard, and there are the Hijo, which are made of Virtuosity's Investiture, something that wouldn't have happened if the Yoki-Hijo held the entirety of Virtuosity's Shard. Not to mention what would happen to the Investiture while there weren't 16 Yoki-Hijo. It could still be that Virtuosity Splintered herself into 16 pieces and one of those pieces landed on Komashi, becoming the Hijo (and Yoki-Hijo by extension), but the entire Shard couldn't have ended up there. I'm more partial to the theory that 13 is Virtuosity's number. 13 is a Fibonacci number, which is repeated all throughout the book as artistic and important, the 14 Yoki-Hijo being Yumi + 13 others, 13 Connections Connecting any given Yoki-Hijo to the others, the Nightmares needing "over a dozen" feedings to become stable. Not for nothing, there's also this WoB:

She can definitely do that. Apparently, there are worlds with entire pantheons that are just Avatars of her. It helps if you can quote the exact passages where that's being said, context matters a lot

Me too Looking forward to seeing what you make, I have some interesting ideas for this one.

WoB says it's from Yolen specifically.

This is awesome, but I'm just about ready to keel over and die right now, so I'll talk about it more in-depth tomorrow. Still, definitely amazing enough to warrant a quick post saying that I'm in love with your worldbuilding.

I agree. We know that Yolen has really weird astronomy, which could possibly have resulted from Adonalsium's Shattering. That, or the hypothetical Corruption, could be (in part) responsible for why Khriss can't locate it. I do find it interesting that Khriss can't find Yolen, yet Mraize has somehow acquired a branch from a Yolish tree.

I'm most interested in Cultivation+Ruin, Honor+Odium and Honor+Dominion seem like they'd be more militaristic Shards, and we've seen some of that already. I can't remember if it was Whimsy+Ruin or Whimsy+Odium, but that one's been done on the first page, we called it Sadism. Zeal was done too, though I don't recall if it was specifically Odium+Devotion. They're interesting avenues to explore, Whimsy+Honor especially. Lovely maths, always a delight to calculate.

It would allow you to burn constantly without getting the effect of hearing pulses, so you could constantly be filling a Tinmind without always Seeking, but yes, it wouldn't actually accelerate the rate of Savantism

Day 51(ish): A-Bronze/F-Tin (Detecting Allomancy/Feruchemy + Store/tap senses) Another good one. A-Bronze is plenty useful for tracking or hunting Metalborn, and Tin would no doubt help with that a lot. Given how versatile F-Tin is, in that you can measure and precisely control exactly how much you magnify your senses, it would be a great tool in the hands of a Roughs-style bounty hunter, or even a 90s lawman. All this to say, they work very well together. That's without mentioning that you can store Bronze Sense in a Tinmind. What doors does that open? Reverse-compounding Bronze sense is hardly difficult, so you could fill whole Tinminds with it very quickly, maybe even becoming a Bronze Savant by doing that, which is one of the less detrimental strains of Savantism and only serves you heighten your ability. Becoming a Savant could maybe let you pierce Copperclouds all on its own. Then tapping huge amounts of Bronze, you could basically become a Bronze radar, able to detect an Invested Art being performed from miles away, let alone through a Coppercloud. Heck, given how easy it would be to reverse-Compound, what if you stored up giant stores of Bronze sense, say for a decade, then begin draining all of them within a month, maybe you could become an F-Tin savant, and see what that's like. Resonance: Maybe heightened sense while burning Bronze? Name: Pulsar Rating: Functionally, another solid 9 for it's excellent synergy, but given how specific it is and it's relatively small impact on daily life otherwise, maybe more of a 7 or 8.

I can't think of anything that has connotations of passion and control, the best I can come up with is Ascendency, Autocracy, or Majesty, but I'm not sure if they fit

True. I don't think there are any words that encapsulate totalitarianism but also denote devotion of some kind in the way Devotion is meant to be represented, so in my head, I'm rationalizing it this way: Dominion doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, so really it's just Odium and Devotion balancing each other out, with Dominion making their theme center around control. Under that, something like Supremacy or Sovereignty kinda works, in a way that also lines up with what's going on on their planet.

Astronomy: Splinters: Dominion: They appear every day, but are most notable when the respective moon is visible in the sky. When the red moon is visible, it is the Night of Dominion (Akalmin Hášal mušaa), when it is the green moon, it is the Day of Devotion (Ulimmu Išinu mušaa). Relationship between the two types of Splinters are tense, they both acknowledge how necessary each other are. But at the same time don't want to interact with one another. They thus make civilizations on the Subastrals of their respective moons. This is the reason for them appearing in largest numbers in areas their moon is over, as it makes them closest to the area in question, thus less of a distance to travel. Languages: Culture: Inspirations: I am absolutely in awe of this entire thing. The worldbuilding is explicit and incredibly well thought-out, not to mention detailed to an extraordinary degree. I love how creative it all is, with the combination of Devotion, Dominion, and Odium turning into a religiously fanatical tyrant and the entire world being built around that foundation. The languages weren't as explicit, but the fact that you even thought to mention them and come up with names and meanings was insane. I also can't even begin to pronounce the words, my mouth just kinda fumbles and then stops working when I do, which makes it so much more fun. The modeling of the religion after Abrahamic traditions and Islam especially was a great touch, describing their religious practices in such detail fleshed the world out so much more. The Splinters were excellent too. I wonder what bonding them would do, even if their nature means they'd never actually bond someone. And, as Alder mentioned, what are the magic systems of this planet? You didn't give a name for the Shard, and Alder's suggestion of Abuse doesn't ring right for me, especially with all the religious iconography in this one. Maybe Supremacy, or Authority? Dominion + Odium = Tyranny, then Tyranny + Devotion = Authority, Supremacy, or Sovereignty. Also loved the little hint that the Shard is so powerful they accidentally Splintered Mercy just by trying to Invest in the same world.

That clears it up. I think with the rings and depending on how the Ridge forms, you could feasibly say that they're entirely in the dark. That fixes that. Does it have a specific place of formation, like the Atium Crystal-producing geodes? How did they survive the destruction of Ortagon? How do they form? Dang it! I honestly thought you'd have prepared an explanation for that Does that mean that the Perpendicularities move in the Cognitive Realm too? Makes sense. That should be enough to explain it, I think. Hmmm, so there's room for theories. Is that a "I'm not telling" or a "There's no answer"? Maybe Valor is dead too. The Siberian traps killed 80% of marine life because the eruptions continued for roughly 2 million years, during which time they'd be spewing ash and lava into the atmosphere and ocean, changing all sorts of environmental conditions, including the ozone layer, like you said. Not only that, raising the global water temperature to at minimum of 40 degrees C is a devastatingly huge amount. The last ice age, for comparison, only cooled global temperatures by 8 degrees. 40~< degrees isn't the highest ever seen in the geological record, by the way. The Permian-Triassic was the most devastating extinction event in the geological record, but the highest water temperature ever recorded is actually 85-90 degrees. I point it out because despite the heat, some life did survive on Vantlar, and the temperature has now decreased enough in areas that should have induced it to multiply. The level it's at right now is good enough if we were trying to be realistic, but if there's enough Investiture that a single plant can grow to encompass an entire mountain, the marine life would develop faster too. You could make all sorts of cool, heat-resistant alien fish using that, maybe ones that use Investiture. The lavaflows would introduce a lot of those same minerals into the water. It would create much the same environment. Yes, everything collapsed in a single day, but it's been a while since that collapse, with Investiture there to speed up the process. Makes sense. Wonder what kind of horrors are lurking down there. The sunlight wouldn't be relevant to a planet with it's atmosphere being set ablaze so often, but the second one clears it up. That section wasn't meant to be nitpicking, just things within your world that I was curious about. Did Valor create them, Ortagon, or Vantlar? Is Valor canonically male in your version? I'd imagined for some reason that Valor's color would be orange, so I'd imagined them as amorphous orange light/mist that manifested a rudimentary animalistic form to attack things. Silver is interesting, as a color for them. Is that what you wanted Valor's color to be? What color is Valorium? It's unfair that you can use Khriss as a RAFO equivalent (╥﹏╥). I'd have done that instead of racking my brain so hard to figure out the little inconsistencies if I knew it was an option I'm gonna pull a Brando Sando fan and call it Detructagon. I can't tell if that's a hint of where they come from or not. RIP No special effects based on having access to Unkeyed Investiture? If they form as a Shardweapon, they would form as Valorium. Yet Valorium on its own doesn't cut like a Shardblade. Is the semi-sentience what makes a difference? Would Valorium keep its shape well enough to form a rapier? What does a Valorium weapon attacking a Spirit look like? That's what I thought, thanks for confirming. We're already handwaving the heat and ring decomposition, that's just part of what's necessary to allow for life. Anyway, a few theories: Valor's special number is 7 His color is silver Valor wasn't a coward. He didn't abandon Vantlar/Ortagon because he feared Odium or Ambition, but because the Invested Art that developed on Ortagon was so mind-numbingly destructive and/or powerful, possibly due to his Intent, that he decided that it couldn't be allowed to exist. He may have come to this conclusion either on his own or decided that it would stoke conflict once the other Shards learned of its existence, perhaps leading to a horrific loss of life and the destruction of many planets. This may or may not have been augmented by his Shardic future sight. The presence of two Shards, especially one that was going around murdering Shards and turning other Shards against them, in the neighbouring system may have exacerbated the issue. The Spirits and Valorium may or may not have been involved. Regardless, Valor destroyed Ortagon and killed everyone on it. He may have put measures in place to deal with the remains of Ortagon quickly, which is why the Equatorial Ridge formed so fast. Then, in his panic or haste (or through simple inexperience, since this was soon after the Shattering), he didn't bother pulling his Investiture out of Ortagon and Vantlar and instead just left the scene. The Spirits, now mindless and essentially dead-eyed, still try and bond other people, echoing the magic system they once granted access to that most likely cannot be accessed anymore. The magic system of Fearless was a side-effect, and maybe a weak, distorted echo of what the Ortagonian magic system was. I don't like that Valorium is basically the same as Venium. Not because you copied the idea off of me or anything, I just like it when things are clearly defined and distinct. A possible solution could be this: plants use Investiture as a substitute for light to grow. Maybe, as a precaution to ensure their self-perpetuation (as they are hell-bent on survival and seed dispersal), or even as just an evolutionary fluke, they also convert heat into Investiture. that way, these massive plants that do whatever they can to spread and survive can take care of decreasing the temperature of the environment. Maybe sailors on Vantlar frantically try to cultivate and grow these plants on board, letting them dangle their extremely long tendrils into the water to reduce the temperature in its vicinity? That leaves Valorium open to take on different properties. Leniency, Indulgence, Tolerance, or Sympathy, maybe? Something that acknowledges rules or precepts, but allows for bending or breaking them in some way. Alternatively, this could be another one of the combinations like Preservation and Ruin, which are so opposed to one another that they end up not having a combined Intent, but rather one about balancing against each other. Just how Sazed can be Harmony or Discord depending on whether he's maintaining the equilibrium, Honor + Whimsy could be Balance/Imbalance, Order/Disorder, Equity/Inequity, Justice/Injustice, or something along those lines.

Ohhh, I see what you did there now. Shardsblade fits better, technically.

A lot of Investiture doesn't automatically mean it'll cut like a Shardblade

They are ageless, but they're just a different brand of it. It's a good distinction to make, but the book calls it out as "More than a Returned", so that's what was on my mind. This one seems likely to me. Child Returned also age until a certain point, so maybe they grow roughly normally, stop at their peak, then begin aging once more when the Investiture drops. They would have had to have been, else they couldn't have pulled themselves free of the Shroud and then remained free of the Machine's true influence. I feel like that would have been acknowledged by Yumi at some point if that were the case. Plus all the "currently 14" stuff makes it sound like the number changes often, at least often in that some of them die and don't get replaced, and other times more children are blessed. I don't think I've seen a WoB that says they could choose to stop being ageless, unless you're talking about Cognitive Shadows specifically, who can choose to go to the Beyond at any point instead of persisting indefinitely. You could get rid of the Investiture to do that, like giving away your Breaths, but not while the Investiture is in you. I don't think this one is an option. Though all we have are implications, they all imply that they weren't ageless.