Windrunner

Magic System Similarities Illusion Magic - AonDor (Aons that change appearance), Lightweaving & Surgebinding Transformation - AonDor & Surgebinding Enhanced Magic Powers/Connection to Shard - Aon Dor (Aon Rao) & Allomancy (Duralumin) Block Connection to Shard - FjorDor (Dilaf's power) and Allomancy (Aluminum) Instantaneous Travel - AonDor, FjorDor, & Surgebinding Magic Obtained From Other People - FjorDor, Awakening, & Hemalurgy Healing - AonDor, Feruchemy, and Surgebinding Can anyone think of any others? I had another idea. We know that magic systems are the result of a Shard's intent interacting with the planets they're on. The way magic is obtained has to do with intent, and the powers all have their root in Andonalsium, because all the powers work the same. So what determines the physical aspect of a magic? My idea is the planet is what determines the physical part. I don't know how exactly but it makes sense to me. I know for sure that the Aons are based on the shape of the planet. Also Roshar naturally has a lot of gemstones, because its animals have gemhearts. Maybe Scadrial has a lot of metal? Nalthis naturally colorful? Another major question is what determines the focus of a magic system, and why is it sometimes the physical part, and other times its the cognitive part?

Hmm, interesting theory... I have to give you kudos for an original idea, this certainly isn't an idea that I have heard anyone speculate about. Personally, I doubt that Szeth became Truthless for refusing to sacrifice a child for two reasons. One is that Truthless seems different to me then how you've explained it. I always saw Szeth as disagreeing with a teaching of the Stone Shamans, something they saw as true, and being punished for it, thus "Truthless". That however doesn't mean you're incorrect as it is only my opinion. But there is one thing for sure. Szeth's punishment is related to the Voidbringers somehow. When Szeth assassinates Gavilar, he thinks about how his punishment says the Voidbringers aren't real, but his Honor demands they are, or something like that. This does fit well with Szeth denying something his people do or teach, but it also has to have something to do with the Voidbringers. My own belief on why the farmers of Shinovar are so rich and respected has to do with Cultivation as well. Firstly, famers follow Cultivation's intent perfectly. Who better for the Shin to revere? My other point has to do with the way magic systems work in Brandon's books. The way for anyone to obtain magic from Cultivation, would be to Cultivate something somehow, which leads to my theory that the users of Cultivation's magic system are the farmers of Shinovar. It would explain their wealth and respect quite nicely, I think.

Well chicken was obviously thinking outside the box when he wrote this theory! I like the fact that it explains why the Parshendi are so honorable. But I do see one potential problem. What can Gavilar the Parshendi do that Gavilar the King of Alethkar cannot? He has all the armies of th most warlike nation on Roshar under his command. If the Parshendi want the Voidbringers defeated they don't have to invoke the Alethi's wrath to get them prepared for war. The Alethi are already in a state of constant war between highprinces. All the Parshendi have to do is give the Alethi a heads up about the Voidbringers and then they'd be good, wouldn't they?If the Parshendi wanted Gavilar to lead them, all they had to do was wait. The treaty was going to fold the Shattered Plains into Alethkar as a subject nation. This might not have an answer because if lack of information, so this theory could still be correct. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bashing this theory or anything. On the contrary I rather like it. I'm just hoping that someone else can help me think of a Parshendi motivation for wanting Gavilar to be one of them, that I haven't thought about.

The one thing I don't get is why Preservation chose to only snap 16% of the people of Scadrial. I doubt that exactly 16% of the population were those low power Mistings, there must have been more that weren't snapped since this mist doesn't create Mistings. I know it was a sign of hope to people, but I'd prefer more soldiers to an obscure sign of hope. But I guess that maybe the people would never have realized that the mist was snapping people unless it was 16% of the population. Anyone have other ideas?

Well we some bits and pieces, and have theorized about a bit more. Facts The major thing that all cosmere magics have in common is that in order to obtain use of the magic system you have to follow the intent of the powering shard. The three we understand for certain are these: Allomancy-Snapping occurs when you need to "Preserve" your life Hemalurgy-You have to cause "Ruin" by killing someone to make a spike Surgebinding- You gain powers by being "Honorable" and swearing oaths Speculation Following those patterns, further speculation is simple, but still unverified. DakhorDor(made-up name)-You gain powers by "Dominating" someone, potentially by killing them AonDor-You must be "Devoted" (a synonym to Aona's shard) in order to be taken by the Shaod Cultivation's Magic-Gained by "Cultivating" things, such as plants. Possibly controlled by the farmers of Shinovar Voidbinding- Almost certainly Odium's magic possibly obtained through acting "Odiously" , to parallel Honor's magic How balance magics, such as Feruchemy, and presumably, ChayShan fit into this pattern is still unknown, and probably has something to do with how the intents interact. As you said above, I think the Three Parts of Magic Theory, by Cuair, is one of the biggest pieces.

Sorry, ha, I didn't mean there are more planets then comets in the universe. I forgot some words there. I meant it's not feasible to name planets after their discoverers like we do comets because there are far more planets in the universe then there are named comets. We can still name comets after discoverers, at least for now, because there are so few in our area. If we started trying to name every pre-comet in the Oort Cloud we'd run into the same problem. Could the Shattered plains be connected to a Shard arriving? The people of Roshar aren't native to it, and are almost certainly of Honor, so Honor must have went to Roshar at some point. If theories are right we may actually see a Shard arrive on Roshar, because some people, myself included, believe Odium hasn't arrived yet. I am certain the arrival of a Shard is going to be pretty dramatic. Just because Scadrial was barren when Ruin and Preservation arrived doesn't mean there weren't people there first. My original belief that Scadrial had Pre-Shattering inhabitants hasn't changed a all, because I have yet to find something that makes more sense, at least to me personally. In my opinion there is no doubt that more worlds then Yolen were populated Pre-Shattering. I can't think of any credible reason why there are planets with no Shards, except that they were already there. Does anyone else have a different belief or interpretation?

I was showing their differences, not similarities. They really don't seem the same at all to me. Divine Breath is mindless, it just reanimates someone dead, personality and skills remain the same. The Splinters of Aona's Shard have their own unique personalities, that have somehow been created, people just as complex as us, bound to humans through love. I don't think that Seons are created has been stated anywhere. It was just my assumption, using the best logic I could think of. The users of AonDor all die out, and the magical creatures that are tied to AonDor mysteriously stop being created. However I just had a new thought. The Elantrians were made sick through a damaged Aon. Maybe Seons are created by another Aon that also has to be fixed now. No one knows where this Aon is though, so it has yet to be repaired. This Aon would somehow give mindless chunks of Spiritual power a personality.

This is a possibility, but what would could it be? I just always assumed that during Andonalsium's time the whole cosmere was populated with people and the Shards just ended up on some of the worlds. This is supported by the fact that there are planets in the cosmere with people on them but no Shards, remnants of Andonalsium's time. (Likely where the people in the third Mistborn trilogy will be exploring)I mentally decided that Scadrial was one. But I still can't explain what would have happened to the people there if I'm right. Andonalsium's Shattering couldn't have done it, because all those other worlds weren't killed off. If you read some of my other posts in this topic, you'll see why I find it unlikely. In short, there are too many planets to have unique names, so there must be something going on with Scadrial having a name. There are way more planets then comets, and unless they have technology like we do now, they wouldn't be able to detect exo-planets. And anyway even if they sold them to people to be "named" after themselves, it's not like that's official or anything. Whether it was populated or had some other trait, we haven't decided either way.

To snap at least in the past, the nobility would beat you, then you would swallow various metals to see if you could burn them. Now this bothered Sazed when he ascended, so he changed the way snapping works. We don't know how it works now but it has to somehow follow the intent of Preserving something, because it has to follow Preservation's intent. We asked Brandon what snapping is like now but he RAFO'd it.

Sorry, I didn't really consider the Mist-Spirit, I haven't read that in a while. You kind of stumped me there but I might see one difference. Both Aona's Shard, and Endowment have splinters, the Divine Breath, and the Seons. However it appears that Seons required someone to create them, likely because their was no Shardholder. (even if there weren't Seons before Aona's death) There isn't any any human interaction necessary for someone to Return. It seems a little bit of a contrast but is by no means definitive.

Why doesn't Sazed use gold Feruchemy to "fix" his problem of being eunuch? It seems that he wants to be normal so he can be a "real man" for Tindwyl, and the Synod would surely want as many Feruchemists as possible to pass on genes. Is it because it's an old wound, so nothings really damaged anymore, and thus impossible to heal? Or would doing so somehow give the fact that he's a Feruchemist away? Another question. Can gold Feruchemy be used to heal birth defects or genetic errors, like DNA replicating wrong? Could it heal cancer in yourself? If gold Feruchemy is using your own DNA to rebuild areas of damage, then it would probably be impossible, since the guide itself is bad.

I bet you could sew body parts together and make a Lifeless. However, it would probably take multiple Breaths, because having so many unattached parts is the equivalent of an extremely damaged regular Lifeless. It would almost certainly work though. You could name him Gibletish, after Hoid!!! (WoK reference! pg 751. No spoilers here but if it's too out of place tell me and I'll put it in a spoiler tag)

Ok, I just combed all relevant sections of the Brandonotholgy and HoA annotations looking for a specific reference to where Kelsier is now, and I found nothing concrete. Since both his spiritual and cognitive aspects remain, he is now possibly in a bit of both. One interesting thing to remember is that people dying in Roshar can see a world that is almost certainly Shadesmar. So I will proceed with the assumption that whatever is left of Kelsier is in Shadesmar. I have had a couple more ideas about why Kelsier can hang around, and I remembered he is also a Sliver! That's got to have something to do with it. If I had to take a guess I'd say that he can stick around for two reasons, one of which I stated above, that him being worshiped by the people in the Physical Realm has anchored him there, making it a little bit like he still has a physical aspect. The second part is also a guess. I am nearly certain that being a Sliver implies a large connection to the Shard, in the form of an increased spiritual aspect. (Could Kelsier use Preservation's power because he was an Allomancer!?!?!) Kelsier could now be using that over-sized Spiritual aspect to compensate for having a weakened physical one, similar to what a Shard does, except on an obviously smaller scale. Shards have so much Spiritual power that having a Physical aspect is actually limiting. The one potential conflict is that Kelsier couldn't have been a Sliver until he took up Preservation, which he couldn't have stuck around to do unless he was a Sliver, at least according to my theory. However, I think I know how to solve this. I don't think you have to exit the Three Realms right away when you die. The people of Roshar are obviously going to Shadesmar first. (which is somehow linked to precognition?) When Kelsier arrived at his layaway in Shadesmar, he was already used to using Preservation's power, because he was an Allomancer. So he was to, as Brandon said, "piggy-back" on to Preservation's power, but not fully, because the Well hadn't attuned him yet. Then he gave Vin Preservation, and his nature as a Sliver allowed him to hang on. By this argument, Vin and Rashek could have hung around too, since they were Slivers and the subject of worship, but Vin at least chose to move on. Wouldn't it be creepy if Rashek was still watching too? Kelsier however, would certainly not choose to die, when there was still meddling to be done. Does any of this make any sense? I hope so, because if not I just wasted a half an hour. Regardless, in my opinion, simply not wanting to go on, isn't enough. Their are plenty of people who don't want to die and are afraid, so Shadesmar should be chocked full of them.

I read somewhere that its one of Brandon's writing groups, kind of a joke that they made up. They're llamas who eat certain grasses or something and gain super llaman powers. Anyone who has more knowledge then me, please feel free to correct me.

I do agree with you here that something interesting is going on here, but I don't think Endowment's dead. I think the most important part is Lightsong speaking with Endowment. Preservation, Aona, and Dominion, the three Shards that have had no holder haven't been able to communicate with anyone. I do agree that Honor set up those visions for Dalinar, but they seem different to me. Dalinar is just along for the ride, he can basically do nothing and the vision will unfold before him, and Honor will speak. But the most important difference is that Dalinar didn't have to do anything, while it seemed that Lightsong actually had a conversation, in which he was required to respond. Dalinar tried to talk to Honor but nothing happened, but Lightsong told Endowment he wanted to Return and he did. It seems to me that this is too complex for a mindless Shard to handle. Like Brandon said of Preservation, Endowment's Shard would understand it's tendency to give, but recognize that it was unable to act without a holder. If you want to see an alternate theory on why Awakening was just discovered, I'd be honored if you'd check out mine, over here.

I don't think that it's possible for someone to come back if they're only mostly dead. The best evidence I have is Kelsier. A man who has a strong connection to Scadrial, is worshipped the world across and is a Sliver of Preservation. He also has the type of personality to keep meddling with the world, and we know he still does from Shadesmar somehow. Don't you think if he could have, Kelsier would have come back? I think that he hasn't says it all. I think it's extremely unlikely. Okay, I just had an epiphany. We know that regular people need a presence in all three Realms, Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual, to live as we know it, with a functioning body and everything. Kelsier has lost his physical form so he should pass on, but he doesn't. Maybe the fact that he's venerated or worshipped by so many people existing in the Physical Realm, is enough to anchor him and replace his own physical presence, allowing him to still live on as a Cognitive aspect/person/thing. What do you guys think?

I don't know that an Awakened Terminator would need several parts. Vasher can Awaken bones inside of stone, which seems to me like it would just make the statues crack when they move, but they're apparently holding together. I wish we'd seen the D'denir in action, do the statues have joints or what?

I'm not certain that distilling the mists would be able to create lerasium. Just because they all come from Preservation doesn't mean the mists, the well, and lerasium are different states of the same thing. The mists don't even act like real matter, vanishing for no real reason. Some people have theorized that the three parts of Preservation on Scadrial are actually the result of three different parts of a Shard's power, lerasium being physical, the well cognitive, and the mists spiritual. If this is true then it seems to me that it would be even more unlikely that the mists could make lerasium, because then they would be fundamentally different powers, even if they all came from Preservation.

The effect of lerasium is to increase the burner's connection to Preservation. Coincidentally a closer connection with Preservation is what makes you a Misborn. If you read the quote above there are some other things that it can do, but lerasium's primary function is a connection to Preservation.

I know that you don't need it, but in this case Vasher did use ichor-alcohol, probably to make it even more difficult to stop the squirrel.

It doesn't seem right that it takes certain gemstones to perform different types of Soulcasting if you have natural Radiant powers. Kaladin doesn't have to use a sapphire every time he lashes something. I always thought the gem type only mattered to those who were using fabrials. Is it possible the Jasnah called for a garnet only to keep up the charade that she was using a fabrial instead of natural powers?

Okay here are some answers to the best of my knowledge. 1.Vasher pumped it full of ichor-alcohol beforehand. The Five Scholars wouldn't have had to invent it, if ichor-alcohol was a natural part of the process of creating Lifeless 2.I am am virtually sure its impossible to Awaken anything that's alive, and I'm sure you can't awaken you're own shadow. The whole process is bringing life to some material that is dead now, so there's no need to give life to something already alive, like you're hand. And if Vasher could have just Awakened his hands and feet to give him more strength and his shadow to protect him, then he wouldn't have bothered with the tasseled clothes and cloak. 3.Well if you want to Awaken something made of stone or metal you need the ninth Heightening, and if you want it to be sapient it takes 1000 breaths. I don't think making a stone or steel Terminator would be any harder then making Nightblood, the process is the same, the shape is the only thing that changes.

I've got some more points for Dalinar being Order Eight. His Devotary is the Order of Talnelet (sp?) which is related to Taln, Herald of the Eighth Order. Also I read in a thread that I can no longer find, that Shallan feels sick when she lies, which fits with Order 6, and I think that Kaladin feels bad when he can't protect people, which would make sense for why he's so depressed. Dalinar feels sick when he's at his most destructive and unsure, (killing and worrying about his sanity) which is the exact opposite of Resolute Builder. It just seems to fit.

I agree that life was barren when Ruin and Preservation got there, it just seems to me that someone else being there first makes the most sense for why Scadrial has a name. I think my point from above still holds true. You simply can't name planets originally if you're studying them, there are simply too many, even if they're relatively close. We don't even have original names for most stars, let alone their planets, and it makes sense that any other advanced stargazing society would do the same thing. I also don't think that any Shardworlds are very close to each other, save Roshar and the Silence Divine planet, which are potentially a special case.

The only thing we know for sure about someone from Scadrial getting to Shadesmar is that it's possible. Maybe part of their FTL Travel?