TheoreticalMagic

I'm wondering if his homeworld is the planet Brandon talked about developing a long time ago, where lightning sparks up from the ground and is sort of an ambient Investiture. At the very least, the way Starling thinks of Zeetzi's homeworld - describing it as a place of cities made up of constantly moving parts - has me convinced more than ever that Canticle (the planet of Sunlit Man) was one of Invention's previous Shardworlds or a place he either created or had a big influence on, as there are very clear technological parallels IMO. And if that's true, then I picture Zeetzi's homeworld having an Invested Art that operates similar to Canticle....except where on that planet, Investiture is absorbed via sunlight and stored in batteries, on Zeetzi's homeworld maybe it's atmospheric static/electricity that's Invested and the "feathers" of Zeetzi's people are an evolutionary adaptation that has something to do with their bodies being kind of biological batteries for absorbing and storing ambient electricity and then manipulating it in various ways. I think it would be interesting if the evolutionary adaptation was specifically meant to take advantage of the INVESTED lightning/electricity on a specific Shardworld, and use it for an Invested Art....but then as a complete side-effect, it would also effectively make Zeetzi's people able to interact with or manipulate normal/unInvested electricity as well. Like a non-magical/physiological superpower that derived from making use of Invested electricity and ironically could end up being just as useful (if not more) even without Investiture present.

Well Uli Da, the Vessel of Ambition, was a Sho Del, and that species is a form of fainlife, right? So it would make sense for Splinters of Ambition to have fainlife characteristics like the one and only Vessel to ever actually hold Ambition.....

Oh I personally do not think Hoid would be a good choice for God at all, (right NOW), but I could see it thematically. Plus its worth noting that Hoid does seem to become incrementally more self-aware as the cosmere storyline has progressed, and we've seen POVs from him but yet to follow him as a main character - though its all but inevitable that he will be centered more as a main in later cosmere stories.....SO for me, speculating this far into the future goes hand in hand with my implicit assumption that Brandon's deliberately saving the lion's share of character development for Hoid til stories where he is centered as an actual protagonist. So when I (somewhat tongue in cheek) talk about seeing this kind of ending in the future, I'm coming at it from the angle that Hoid is deliberately NOT intended to be Decent God material as he is at this stage in the cosmere, but if Brandon has that fate in mind for him, there are storylines yet to come, that'll revolve around leveling Hoid up in morality and responsibility before he and the cosmere arrive at that narrative point.

I think it could be, but to clarify my personal hunch is it was manipulating Honor's perpendicularity but not because that's how the Long Trail ALWAYS works, but rather because Cusicesh's nature is to temporarily adapt itself/mold itself to the latest home of the Iriali in order to utilize the natural mechanisms/magic systems of each world to send the Iriali along to the next world. So it works differently on each world, changing in such a way as to exploit the existing infrastructure of the world to do what it needs to do, rather than just unilaterally bringing a static worldhopping mechanism to each new world. Thus even though Lumar has no perpendicularity and isn't considered a major Shardworld, it was still able to send the Iriali on along the Long Trail from there....most likely by utilizing the aethers in some way. (I do think its particularly noteworthy that each of the Long Trail stops that we know of happen to coincide with worlds which have access to one of the magic systems we know enables interstellar travel, as referenced in Isles of the Emberdark. Scadrial, Roshar and Lumar....which while not part of the system the aethers are native to, does have aethers, which we know have been used for interstellar travel). So using Honor's perpendicularity IS part of how Cusicesh sent the Iriali on to their next world, but ONLY because that was the most convenient way for Cusicesh TO access the Long Trail while on Roshar. The many comparisons between Cusicesh and the three major Bondsmith spren....while still being notably distinct from the three and not quite fitting into the same category as them....is because Cusicesh's adaptative nature molded it along the lines of how the Rosharan magic systems would achieve the end goal the Protector needed to achieve.....turning it from whatever it had been before, into a spren-like entity akin to one of the three Bondsmith spren who could open Perpendicularities and from there use the Spiritual Realm's Connection-to-Everywhere to power a massive Elsegate sending the Iriali on their way, via Shadesmar. (Which is also a key point for me....we know Elsegates can be used to just send people through the Physical Realm from one planet to another, which is what happened during the exodus from Alaswha to Roshar. BUT given that Sigzil joined up with the Iriali caravan in Shadesmar, with it noted that many spren had joined up with the caravan on its way across the Rosharan Shadesmar landscape.....it seems pretty clear that the portal the Iriali went through just transported them from Roshar's Physical Realm placement to its Shadesmar equivalent.....which is so far distinct to Rosharan Elsecalling, as we've seen Jasnah's version work).

About the end of the cosmere....given how prevalent the theme of "the best people to entrust with power are the ones who least want it" and the lengths to which Hoid has gone to avoid holding a Shard, I'm half expecting the cosmere to end with Adonalsium reforming in some way or to some degree and Hoid ends up reluctantly holding its power and being like "and I suppose that makes this the grandest joke in the history of the cosmere, but I for one, am NOT AMUSED."

I think its something along these lines. I'm reminded of the fact that in the Sunlit Man, a big deal is made about how much Investiture is needed to power huge worldhops, though of course the mechanism there is much different from the portal that opens here. But given that we also know that enough Investiture, given enough time, eventually develops its own sentience, I do suspect that there is a standing mechanism for the Iriali worldhopping along the Long Trail, and Cusicesh is the sentience it has evolved into over time and multiple worldhops. My personal suspicion is the changing faces Cusicesh is noted for is a reflection of all the people who come within its "range" and are left feeling drained after witnessing it, same as Mattel noted the Stormfather has an effect on people......because my hunch is that this is a) connected to the Iriali belief in the One and that all people are aspects/part of it, as reflected by a myriad of faces being worn by Cusicesh, and b) this is the fuel that POWERS the Long Trail. Just like sufficient Investiture has to be built up between jumps to worldhop as shown in the Sunlit Man, the Long Trail requires that every time the Protector guides the Iriali to a new land, expending massive Investiture in the process, the Iriali then have to stay in that new land long enough for their worldhopping mechanism to slowly, over time, absorb enough trace Investiture from people that bring themselves within range of it, that it can eventually activate and open the Long Trail again. With this possibly happening differently on each Long Trail "stop" as the mechanism isn't for worldhopping per se, but rather for hacking/hijacking the most convenient mechanism ON THAT SHARDWORLD, for enabling mass worldhopping. And on Roshar, that just happened to be hijacking Honor's mobile perpendicularity, thus making it behave oddly. At some point in the distant past, either on Roshar or one of the stops before it, this process had been repeated enough that the Long Trail mechanism achieved sentience as Cusicesh, and became the Iriali's active Protector rather than just a passive part of their nomadic culture and relocation process. The reflecting faces thing that Cusicesh does is I think incidental, or rather symptomatic of Cusicesh absorbing trace amounts of the Investiture present to some degree in all living things. Its not the POINT of Cusicesh, just a fringe inevitability.....my theory is that the Four Aspects of Adonalsium are Investiture, Connection, Fortune and Identity, the Spiritual Bedrock of the Cosmere, through which all existence is one and the same. Because Cusicesh's nature requires acting as a sponge for ambient Investiture in order to regularly refuel and reinitiate the Iriali worldhopping, that process makes Cusicesh also "soak up" trace amounts of Identity, Fortune and Connection from all the people it absorbs tiny bits of Investiture from.....which is where the changing faces comes in, a byproduct of it absorbing these Spiritual Traits in tiny degrees as well. The absorption I think is so minimal that it doesn't really rob anyone of their Investiture, Fortune, Connection or Identity to any meaningful degree....I imagine that how long the Iriali spend on each world is relative to how populated that world is, and thus how long it takes the Protector to soak up enough Investiture to recharge (thus more advanced Shardworlds that more easily support larger or growing populations would lead to shorter stays, with the Iriali having spent longer than usual on Roshar because of how much the Desolations set back population growth and ease of travel within range of Cusicesh, despite Roshar's large size). Likely the reason it takes so long though is because the Protector, by design (though whose is the question) isn't meant or able to absorb more Investiture/Identity/Connection/Fortune from individuals than they can afford to lose without being noticeably affected. Like whatever Cusicesh takes is more like 1/1000th of a Breath, even.

That's more than fair, but I consider that an issue with how the storyline was executed, versus a blanket "it would've been better to enable Szeth's abuse-modified behavior and beliefs than even attempt to pushback against them as long as pushback of any kind can be qualified as over-riding his ideological autonomy as well." The resolution didn't wholly work for me either, in large part because I do think its overly ambitious to try and pack a radical mental health paradigm shift storyline into a mere ten days in-universe, and the timeline was always going to strain my suspension of disbelief. I'm a big fan of the series and there's a ton of things I love, but just because I would rather certain things have happened for the sake of the story/characters than not happened at all, doesn't mean I believe they were necessarily done as well as they could've - or SHOULD'VE - been, IMO. You don't even want to get me started on my aggravation with Words of Radiance and "Dalinar being a more decent guy than most others of his caste does not remove his complicity in all the times he does not make exceptions for dark-eyed individuals who haven't personally saved his or his sons' lives" and other such trains of thought, lol. And no in-joke intended, OP in various other parts of the web is just a way of saying Opening Poster and a shorthand for the poster who started a discussion. Sorry for not making that clear, I thought it was a more common usage than it apparently is.

You mean the book that showed Szeth literally led a revolution against the other Honorblade-bearers and was in the end upheld as having been right to do so, its just that the literal voice in his head revealed itself to be one of his religious figures and had him thrown into slavery which for a time made Szeth doubt himself and his convictions to the extent that he refused to make any further choices himself because people he trusted convinced him that every choice he'd made on his own was disastrous and wrong? Yes, I read it. Again, I'm not arguing that Kaladin's approach wasn't flawed and he made no mistakes in his efforts with Szeth. I'm simply arguing that the intent to get a guy who has been used as an unthinking weapon to assassinate leaders and foment global chaos to think for himself is not inherently more immoral than just telling him what to do because this guy insists that his belief is that he is incapable of deciding things for himself so its better for everyone if you just tell him exactly what to do no matter the consequences. Yes, Kaladin messed up at times with Szeth, but as OP acknowledges, he recognizes this and course corrects at times as well, which is part of Kaladin's storyline not being Infallible Perfect Protagonist Man Rides to the Rescue. The process was not without problems, but the direction Kaladin came at things from and the source of his belief that Szeth's worldview had been subverted and exploited at his expense comes from a wholly different place from the paternalistic self-righteousness that characterized a lot of the people who were perfectly comfortable exploiting Szeth's self-doubts in order to wield him as a weapon. That is my point.

I mean, I agree with some of what you're saying here OP, but I do think some of your interpretations are not totally made in good faith. For instance, you can certainly criticize Kaladin's methodology as heavy-handed (it is, but a lot of that is due to the fact that the book's plot and timeline demanded packing years worth of therapy into a ten day roadtrip), but its not exactly an assault on Szeth's agency to try and impress "you are a person" upon a guy whose personhood has been battered to hell and back not because of a lack of intelligence or inability to understand this himself, but rather due to the fact that everyone IN Szeth's belief system had systematically gaslit him for years. Like. Countering that with "no, you don't have to listen to what the people who very much did not have your best interests at heart had to say about your personhood and morality" is not like. Actually a bad thing, y'know? LOL. I just mean Szeth's worldview (over the past six years prior to this) was not natural or organic to him, it was willfully subverted by people who abused the trust he'd put in them once upon a time. I don't think this can comparably be put on the same level as Dalinar or Navani who I do agree DID at times bulldoze past the Stormfather and Sibling's own preferences and beliefs out of a bullheaded conviction in their own righteousness....which in their cases, stems at least in part from their history as high-ranking nobility within a literal in-world oppressor caste. Which is.....completely at the opposite end of the spectrum from Kaladin, a longtime victim of an oppressor caste and slavery system trying to reach out to somebody he - with validity - sees himself, his own past and his own struggles to regain his personhood reflected in. A former slave helping another former slave to recognize "hey, how screwed up is it that people owned us and told us they were right to because they said God told them it was okay" is orders of magnitude different from a king and queen used to upending society on the basis of "God told me I had the inherent right to do what I want because My Eye Color Is Popping" like.....having the confidence of self required to listen to the objections of the last remaining pieces of that God and then go "yeah I'm not gonna do your plan, we're gonna do my plan instead." Characters paternalistically imposing their belief systems over other characters they regard as less sophisticated or informed is regrettably a thing that pops up in various cosmere works IMO, but in this particular instance that is not actually the issue at hand. Szeth's entire storyline is about him REGAINING his belief system/personal morality and finding renewed strength and conviction in what he ALREADY organically believed in the past, based on his own interpretation of the world and his culture.....after having those things deliberately misrepresented, twisted and used against him by bad actors who happened to be literal religious figures in his culture after they went and got high on Odium-juice. And like....Nale and Ishar's previous thought patterns were quite literally magically corrupted by said Odium-juice. You can't honestly equate trying to dissuade them from listening to magically-induced intrusive thoughts with telling them not to listen to their own NATURAL minds and beliefs. Their minds and beliefs were not wholly theirs anymore and hadn't been for centuries, and this wasn't even a neurodivergency issue so much as Ishar accidentally downloading magical cosmere malware and infecting the group chat.

Yup, I think this is exactly what happened. I agree, that similarity in descriptions for Bo-Ado-Mishram and the Nightwatcher that you found seems way too deliberate for her not to be the Night.

Yeah I'm not convinced that the Roshar and Scadrial of the space age (that we've seen thus far) retain much of the cultural identity that shapes the current hero casts of each planet. The seemingly dominant forces of each planet being callous conquerors and predatory hyper-capitalists doesn't IMO mean that the heroes of "modern" Roshar and Scadrial that might have opposed such predilections end up dying or defeated.....not when worldhopping is a thing. I do think Retribution (or an even worse Shard Intent or combination that somehow replaces it) will still be the driving force behind Roshar by the time of Isles of the Emberdark, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Taravangian is still in the driver's seat by then, nor does it mean that anti-Retribution forces like the Azirish, Venli's Listeners, the Urithiru Radiants and the Unoathed are subsumed into Retribution's war or defeated by them. I could definitely see the Heralds (more of them replaced by other modern-age Rosharans, even, like Shallan, Renarin or Adolin), still being an immortal vanguard of the opposition to Roshar centuries from now, after having helped lead Retribution's enemies from Roshar back to Ashyn or somewhere else. This is only a little bit because I want to see a Kaladin and Sigzil reunion centuries in the future. Okay fine, its like 90% because I want that. (Also, I do really hope that Kaladin, Adolin and Shallan finally get to have that drink at the end of "all this" like they promised each other before they parted ways, but I could definitely see that being fulfilled via a Brandon twist that places that drink together once all of this is over....on a distant planet centuries from now. He's like "still counts!" But I mean, if it meant I get to keep some faves around longterm throughout the greater cosmere conflict, that's worth not getting them having that moment by the end of Stormlight Book 10, specifically. Personally, I'm here for the cosmere longhaul rather than just Stormlight - though I get that's not true for everyone and I respect that - so for me, I'd rather have more faves sticking around longterm than shorter/finite narratives for them that definitively end in the next five books. But that's just where I land).

Now that I think about it, with the speculation that Syl will replace the Stormfather as the Storm Queen upon the Return, and with us having seen her grow up and mature much like humans do for all that she's a spren, its actually suddenly very easy for me to picture a young Bo-Ado-Mishram as being to Ado what Syl was to Honor (especially now that we know Tanavast for all intents and purposes basically IS the Stormfather, who in turn has always regarded Syl as his Ancient Daughter), and The Girl Who Looked Up being a much younger version of that ancient spren kind of parallels Syl's youthfulness when she first returned to the Physical Realm in the modern era.

I think Battar is going to surprise a lot of people. And I don't think its accurate to say a lot of them got mental illnesses and Battar got greed, I think its more that Ishar's Connection to the others and to Odium's power enhanced each Herald's primary vices to the nth degree, which compounded by their trauma made a lot of them PRESENT as mental illnesses. Or more accurately, made a lot of their magically magnified vices present as PART of their mental illnesses, or a symptom of their poor mental health. Mental health is of course a huge theme of the series, and I don't think Brandon spent all that time on Kaladin's mental health and recovery journey just to switch gears to the Heralds and be like now let's focus on a bunch of characters whose mental health issues are Because Magic Did It. And saying that some of the Heralds' mental health issues were due to the corrupted Oathpact risks Brandon presenting the idea that reforging the Oathpact can or should "cure" some of their mental health issues, which again, doesn't really track with Kaladin's character arc. Nor is it something I think Brandon would want to stray too close to saying. So I think the mental health issues and instability derived from the Heralds' millennia of trauma and torture is ONE issue and the Heralds' vices magnified to inhuman extremes by the Odium-corrupted Oathpact connection is a SECOND issue and I think those two issues fed into each other in a self-perpetuating and continuously reinforced cycle that left us with the Heralds as we know them in the modern day.....but the end perception we have of them isn't predicated on just the corruption or their mental health, but rather a kind of resonance created by the juxtaposition of the two in each Herald. Not unlike how Radiants have a magical resonance born of the bond with their spren juxtaposing two Surges in each of their spiritwebs, something along those lines. But IMO this means that with the expulsion of the corruption born of Odium's power, the Heralds are indeed not "healed" by any means....but the magnified vices are no longer a factor in their mental health struggles, and the resonance is gone. They're not all fully altered from how they were while the Oathpact was corrupted because that resonance built from things that already existed naturally within them, further amplified by the compounding factor of their trauma and poor mental health....but the magnification of their vices I believe has been decisively cut off at the source, has been magically dealt with just as it was a magically derived issue in the first place. Their base vices are still within them, and those vices can and I believe are magnified non-magically by their mental health struggles, but they now have the capacity to NOT be defined by those vices any more than anyone who struggles with their mental health is prone to being defined by their worst traits. So Battar might indeed still sell them out because of greed-based characteristics that were within her all along, but I think its far from a given. The Battar we met so far had no more ability to on her own withstand the magnification of her worst trait than any of the other Heralds. She's got trauma to deal with, and if she doesn't, it very well could continue to fuel her less noble characteristics in being defining traits that motivate her to sell the others out or make deals of her own with Retribution.....but by the same token, she now has the same potential as any of the others to take advantage of this opportunity before the next Return to address her mental health, begin recovering, and Return anew as more like the Herald she once was than the greedy sell-out the Corrupted Oathpact turned her into. I do think we might get one more big betrayal in the second half, with it likely to be one of the Heralds, but I think it'd be a mistake to assume it will be Battar based solely on the fact that her no-longer-magically-magnified vice is greed or susceptibility to bribery. Its a whole new game for the Heralds now that the Oathpact has been reforged, Odium's power expunged, and they have Kaladin with them to provide new resources and tools for dealing with their mental health and trauma in a space safe from further traumatization. Any of them could benefit hugely from all of this, and any of them could end up still vulnerable to Retribution post-Return because they for whatever reason didn't make the most of these opportunities or wound up not as far along in their recovery journey as the others by the time of the next Return. I don't think we have nearly enough of a look at the Heralds in general to even begin speculating who's most likely to be least trustworthy of the Heralds going forward.

I remember aaaaages ago when I read the original Liar of Partinel intro chapters, there was a reference to "the corpses of dead gods" being strewn across Yolen, and the source of some of the fainlife, I believe? But I never read Dragonsteel Prime so I don't know if those are the immortals or gods Phendorana is referencing or if these dead gods from Liar of Partinel were something else. And of course, I have no idea where they stack comparative to Adonalsium, let alone if any of that is even still canon or in the plans. But then, personally, I've always had the hunch that Adonalsium was the creator of the cosmere galaxy but not the original or only god of the universe. In fact, it wouldn't shock me (thematically) if it turned out the Shards were just the latest in a cycle of godhood, replacing Adonalsium the way Adonalsium possibly replaced older gods or was the last of a previous generation of gods, or just the one local to this galaxy, etc.....and then the cosmere cycle will ultimately end with either Adonalsium being reformed - or more likely IMO, with the rise of the next generation of gods, which might be four "Super Shards" comprising four of the original sixteen Shards each. There's a WoB that a combination of four Shards would be much more stable than either Harmony or Retribution, so I'm kinda expecting the cosmere finale to split the difference between Adonalsium and the Sixteen.....make the case that the original Vessels weren't necessarily wrong to think that too much power concentrated in the hands of one single unchecked being wasn't ideal, but at the same time, the solution was never the sixteen Shards because that made the pieces of Ado's power too contextually limited and lacking the proper framing needed to keep the Sixteen Intents from becoming obsessions bereft of nuance. So I think by the end of it all, we'll have four Gods instead of one or sixteen, and Harmony is the basis of one but will be combined with two more Shards (possibly Autonomy for one) and Retribution is the basis of another, possibly fated to combine with Reason and Valor, at a guess. And then whatever the Dor is becoming might combine the vestiges of Dominion and Devotion with two more Shards somewhere down the line, and the four remaining Shards (or reassigned Investiture of Splintered Shards like Ambition and Virtuosity) will make up the fourth God. And thus the cosmere cycle will ultimately be something more akin to the cycle of mythologies like Greek mythology for instance....with its primordial powers which gave way to the Titans who were overthrown by the Olympians, who feared being supplanted by the Giants or other children of the gods or Titans, etc. Adonalsium, his potential peers or predecessors, the Shards, their eventual final combined forms or successors, etc....they're all gods in their own ways, but they represent different generations of godhood, each being different KINDS of gods for a different era of the cosmere's arc of history.

Yeah I'm also almost positive that Bo-Ado-Mishram is the original Night spren. Too much emphasis has been placed on her being substantially different from the other Unmade to a degree that IMO really only fits if she's on the level of a Bondsmith spren OR greater....and Night seems to be the only "missing" spren that fits that. Plus the fact that she's so Connected to Roshar and the Singers to such a degree as imprisoning her had the consequences it did....at this point I'd be very shocked if she's NOT the Night. Plus, I think the Ado in her name is due to her being one of Adonalsium's own personal creations, like the Wind and Stone, and also Mishram IMO could be connected to Mishim, the name of one of Roshar's moons, which would fit the idea that the three remaining moons correlate to one of the three ancient spren. Certain lines about Night and the sky also made me think of a connection there. And all the other Unmade have names derived from Earth mythologies, with Bo-Ado-Mishram being the only one that's not an obvious reference, but there most likely is SOME significance to her name, which makes me think in her case its more of a direct in-world connection.

Yeah, this. My interpretation is that because the Dawnshards likely can't be destroyed, the one guaranteed way to expose them is to vaporize whoever's holding one since what you'd be left with is the indestructible Dawnshard. Now utterly unprotected and easily swiped up by the first person to spot it and go oooh shiny. Which in this case would of course be Taravangian. Who loves shiny new things even without an expanded Shard consciousness & knowledge base telling him "hey that thing is very special and important, we want that, get that now."

I think if Harmony turns into Discord in Era 3, and in a bid for power goes up against Autonomy again and this time ends up walking away with at least a Splinter of her power added to his own, or absorbs one of her Avatars, I think that actually could end up being a very good thing, and the Harmony/Discord + (some of) Autonomy Super Shard could be Balance....the Intent of Self-Regulation of Opposing Natures. The individual's ability to compensate for being torn between two extremes at different times by exercising their autonomous will to course correct their behavior rather than be ruled by their own conflicted nature. In fact, it might be a VERY Kelsier style plot twist for him to be working throughout Era Three in shady seeming ways that suggest he's exploiting Sazed not being in his right mind to goad him into going after Autonomy....with other people familiar with both characters disappointed in Kelsier seeming to be willing to even weaponize his own friend just to take out another enemy.....only for it to turn out that Kelsier (in his own mind, and his own uniquely Kelsier ways) was only instigating this conflict because he's HOPING that absorbing some of Autonomy's Intent will help Sazed regain control over himself. In a way that Discord might shy away from if he knew Kelsier's real hope, considering an Intent like Discord might find his own internal conflict and strife appealing and not WANT it to go away. Cut to Sazed-as-Balance beaming at Kelsier: This is why I believe in you. Kelsier looking at everyone else: See? God believes in me, why can't you jerks ever believe in me too? Everyone who's ever met Kelsier, looking at everything else he's ever done: Gee. Can't imagine why we ever have doubts about how far you'll go. Also what the actual hell do you mean nobody else ever believes in you, you literally have your own religion.

Ahh, gotcha. Hmmm. Well, that seems pretty definitive. Tbh, I always had some hesitation about this idea for similar reasons, that it would dilute Kaladin's storyline to imply that a divine heritage was a factor. I only settled into it recently after reading Book Five because I thought the reveals of Tanavast's clear fallibility, Kalak's own issues and the fact that Kaladin's character arc all the way up to becoming a Herald included no heritage reveal......could lead to some interesting subversions if in the back half of the series, such a connection were treated as irrelevant to Kaladin's story and his being revealed as Kalak's descendant only ended up having relevance/significance to KALAK'S storyline in the back half. With the latter perhaps finding inspiration/drive to feel worthy of being known as Stormblessed's ancestor after everything the Heralds had done (or failed to do), and struggling with the idea that this descendant who was of such more humble beginnings than he was and had so far fewer resources and advantages had risen so high while he himself had fallen so low. Its more the subversion of expectations in how that dynamic might come across that intrigued me rather than needing or wanting any connection to Heralds/Shards on Kaladin's part, to "add to his clout" or whatever, since he hardly needs it. But yeah, either way, hard to make that work with these WoBs so oh well. I do think there might still be something to the idea that Kalak is Tanavast's son, however.

There's a particular angle from which it would make a lot of sense for the Dawnshard having originally been in Kalak's possession, of all the Alaswha survivors, before giving it to Taln: I'm on board with the theory that the "Son of Tanavast" name for Kaladin IS because he's directly descended from Tanavast....and I think its via Kalak, who is Tanavast's son. Brandon's said that the Shards - while Shards - can and sometimes do have children, with Vessels being capable of making Avatars that can reproduce. He's even said that there are people in the cosmere who are descended from one or more Shard, post-Shattering. I think during the time Tanavast left Roshar and got involved with the human civilization on Alaswha, he made an Avatar that had at least one child, Kalak....and if any of the future Heralds were to be trusted with bringing as powerful a weapon as a Dawnshard during the Crossing, after human use of Surgebinding had just destroyed their previous world....who better to entrust it with than the literal Son of Honor? We also know from Chana that Heralds can have children as well....and the phrasing of how the Heralds talked about her wanting to create a family in the modern era always struck me as noteworthy. Despite being well aware of their nature as Cognitive Shadows, it didn't seem to come as a surprise to them that a Herald COULD have children. I don't think she actually was the first, just the first to raise her children and stay with them as a family. Its far easier/more likely for some of the male Heralds to have sired children at some point in the past....maybe without even knowing it. So regardless of how far back it is, I do think Kaladin is a direct descendant of Kalak, and thus by extension Tanavast, making him a literal Son of Tanavast....which also casts the Ancient Daughter of the Stormfather seeking out HIM of all people to be the first to bind an honorspren since the Recreance in a very different light. There's just too many oddities about Kalak's positioning in the narrative for there not to be a big twist coming with him. Out of all the Heralds, his POV seems oddly prioritized compared to the others, relative to their various storylines. Not Ishar, not Jezrien.....despite being neither the leader of the Heralds nor the designer of the Oathpact nor the Herald actively still guiding an Order in the modern day like Nale....Kalak just happened to be the POV Herald in the literal opening of the series, the last one to actually make the choice to abandon the Oathpact, Taln's final betrayer as it were. He just happened to be one of the only Heralds present for Tanavast's betrayal of Bo-Ado-Mishram, which led to Tanavast's Descension and death. Despite not being the one to make the Oathpact he seems to be the Herald with the greatest understanding of how it works, other than Ishar, who made it....he also seems to be the most cosmere aware and best informed on other worlds. Despite having no obvious connection to the Windrunners, he lives in Lasting Integrity with the honorspren, who seem to revere him even while disliking him, in ways that aren't reflected in how they refer to other Heralds. He's leader of the Sons of Honor, he's one of the only two Heralds whose names actually seem to reflect Tanavast's fixation on symmetrical names (he couldn't have a more Tanavast approved name if Tanavast were to have picked his name personally....wink wink), the Ghostbloods focus on kidnapping him out of all the Heralds despite his ramped up paranoia making him one of the more difficult Heralds to isolate and take by surprise, and Mraize notes him as being especially dangerous. Kalak is more significant than he appears....the other Heralds have reasons for why THEY are so tied to the most pivotal events of the series....Ishar designed the Oathpact, Jezrien and Ash are the leader of the Heralds and his daughter, Taln is obvious, Chana is the mother of one of the main characters, Nale is the only one of the Heralds to have seemed to recognize Odium's threat and oppose him from the get-go, even back on Alaswha.....but with multiple other Heralds still largely unexplored, it doesn't really seem clear why we keep coming back to the Willshaper Herald in particular....yet we constantly do. Finally, Kaladin's frequently had his name commented on throughout the series as being an unusual name for a darkeyes, not fitting the normal naming conventions, almost as if we're meant to have the thought that there's something significant about KALadin's name in the back of our minds. And for all that many of us are obviously interested in the Chekhov's Gun that is Kaladin's dynamic with Chana, given that he's so close to her daughter and killed Helaran.....there's one last tangle that I think has largely flown under the radar, when it comes to contemplating Kaladin's interactions with his fellow Heralds between now and the next Return: It just happened to be Kalak....in his guise as Restares, who literally convinced Amaram to take Helaran's Shards himself. Which directly led to Amaram's betrayal of Kaladin (mirroring Kalak and the other Heralds' betrayal of Taln, and Tanavast's betrayal of Bo-Ado-Mishram), and set in motion Kaladin's entire storyline from that point on. So yeah. I think Kaladin (and Oroden - who I think is going to be a major character in the back half, which Brandon is now saying might be set fifteen years later, which would make Oroden around the same age Kaladin was at the start of Way of Kings) are directly descended from Kalak, who is Tanavast's son and was entrusted with a Dawnshard that was brought from Alaswha during the Crossing, and that he eventually gave it to Taln, who used it to try and kill Cultivation, who then took it from him.

I have a half-baked theory that its named Elantris as in Aon Ela ("center") because its the centerpoint of the galaxy the Shards/cosmere are located in, and that's why Aona and Skai both gravitated there. Aona wanted to use the centerpoint of the galaxy as a bastion of learning, the perfect launchpoint for spreading art, beauty and education throughout the cosmere, while Skai saw it as the ideal stronghold from which to bring the rest of the cosmere under her dominion. Realmatically speaking, being positioned at the center of the galaxy could have some significant Cognitive Realm implications, allowing for the early Selish to get a leg up on everyone else in terms of understanding their galaxy. (It also could account for Elantrians seemingly finding a way to use Aon Dor on other planets by the space age.....this could be due to a global Cognitive shift from identifying as citizens of a country with a national shared identity, to citizens of a planet with a global shared identity and finally to citizens of a galaxy with a galactic shared identity as one planet partaking in a larger civilization. Thus allowing Elantrians to shift their perception of their position relative to the rest of their planet to being more concerned with their position relative to the rest of the cosmere....and by Cognitively viewing Elantris as the centerpoint of the galaxy, they can then access its magic from anywhere within the cosmere with the right coding/equations.) Also, there's still so much we don't know about the timeline of civilizations on Sel, but given how long ago Aona and Skai were killed....although we know they weren't as actively involved in Selish civilizations/cultures pre-death as other Shards with other worlds' civilizations....we're talking SO long ago that if they had ANY hand in setting up Elantris, the Ire have had waaaaay longer to learn about the cosmere than just about any of the other major players. Alternatively, the fact that Elantrian magic is so OP could be indicative of Aona just making so much more of Devotion's Investiture accessible on Sel compared to how much most Shards invest in their magic systems....which might mean Elantrians/the Ire just had more juice to power their experiments and attempts at understanding the cosmere.

I don't know that this is technically true. Its frequently been raised as a plot point that the entire reason Odium's Fused forces only use nine Surges is because the tenth Radiant/Heraldic Surge, Adhesion, is purely of Honor. Who is, ultimately, the Shard of bonds, oaths and respecting the power of connections. So I think it could be argued that the Surges are natural forces but just like existing Investiture in the cosmere was partitioned out or "assigned" to a specific Shard as of the Shattering, some Surges might equally fall under every Shards' purview, but a few specific Surges align with specific Shards, like Adhesion and Honor. So, for instance, the nine other Surges we KNOW OF could be "neutral" Surges that any Shard has access to or control over, or that some Shards have full access to like Odium. Or maybe some of the Shards could have more of a predisposition towards some Surges than others, like Progression being more aligned with or accessible by Cultivation and Gravitation being more aligned with/accessible by Honor....and then finally we might have some specific Surges like Adhesion that are purely of one Shard and either no other Shard has sway over it....or maybe there are some Surges that only some specific Shards DON'T have access to. Like maybe there are other Shards besides Honor that could grant Adhesion, but Odium in specific isn't one of them because all Odium knows how to do by its very nature is be divisive, rather than create Connections. (Which means with Odium and Honor combined now, perhaps Retribution CAN create his own version of an Adhesion Surge to make a new tenth kind of Fused). And also, this means in theory, there could be other Surges that just aren't accessible via Roshar or Alaswha's versions of Surgebinding, because all of those ten come from either Honor, Cultivation or Odium. Perhaps there are sixteen Surges in total, but the other six can only be granted by certain other Shards, because they're "of" specific Shards in the same way Adhesion is of Honor and Odium can't mirror.

I don't have any idea (its a lot), but given that being Truthful is key to one of the Orders, it seems likely it would also be of great importance to the power of Honor. Which is to say, I now picture Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow getting a petty little thrill out of every time he as the Stormfather lies. He's like "yeah that's right, I'm being deliberately untruthful and deceptive, what are you gonna do about it, kill me? Hah!" But at the same time, the Stormfather is still very much a large piece of the power of Honor shaved off before Tanavast died, so the power's like "who is that even aimed at, yourself? You know that me as in Honor is still you as in Tanavast, even if now you're just intertwined with my power as part of the Stormfather rather than all of me, right?" Tanavast: Look, I think we've conclusively established by now that I have Issues, and if Hoid had REALLY wanted to help Roshar, he should've clued me in to this whole "so therapy's a thing and you should get some" idea several thousand years before he brought it up with Kaladin. (Oh no, now I'm picturing a therapist trying to conduct a couples counseling session between a Shard and its Vessel.)

Hmmm. I can't say where I fall on the "maybe he did it subconsciously" side of this, but I definitely don't think he ever had any initial thoughts or intentions regarding eventual replacements for the original Heralds. As you said, Ishar was uniquely driven to pathological belief in his being a deity, because that was how his corruption-via-Odium presented itself. Just as it magnified Battar's greed, Ash's self-loathing, Kalak's indecisiveness.....Ishar's manifestation was his hubris and self-assuredness magnified to an exponential degree. Even back in the earliest visions, he definitely (to me) came across as one of the most....egotistical Heralds. That's harsh, probably, as I don't deny that he definitely did tremendous things for humanity and endured terrible torture as a result, but its more that I just mean he had the most clear savior complex of the original group. Even Jezrien, while arrogant at times, seemed driven more by the responsibility he felt was bestowed by his kingship; Ishar seemed to feel driven by a need to be the one to fix things. There was more than likely a great deal of guilt built into that, especially since its implied he was the one who initialized the cataclysm on Alaswha, but any way you cut it, I believe Ishar always thought a great deal of his footprint in the cosmere compared to everyone else's. He was "bigger" than the average person, even as a mortal. His actions had greater import, his choices greater significance. And the other original Heralds were IMO the only ones he (initially) viewed as being on his level, or close to it. I believe he genuinely cared about the people under his protection. But I think he did so in a decidedly paternalistic way (not unlike Dalinar's core character journey and his repeated belief that it fell to him alone to fix everything and it would be for the best if he could be the one making all the decisions). I'm actually very intrigued by the notion that this is a Bondsmith trait in general, similar to how Windrunners struggle with self-care and are prone to self-sacrificing martyr tendencies, as Navani IMO also displays this trait, (albeit to a lesser degree, and with her evolving past it earlier in her character journey than Dalinar. Also, in her case I'd say it also could be overcompensation due to struggling with her insecurities about others not viewing her as a 'real' scholar....then again, perhaps the same could also be said about Dalinar and his earlier comparisons to Gavilor, who frequently used criticisms of his intelligence, discipline and honor to keep him under his thumb. Hmm. Maybe its more that all the Bondsmiths have a tendency to go big in the other direction in response to struggling with insecurities they feel they should be 'better than.' Must contemplate more. Food for thought). So actually I think I may have changed my mind here and talked myself around from the start of the post. I was initially saying I don't think it was intentional and MAY have been subconscious, but following the train of thought above, I think actually a strong case could be made for it being subconscious. Where I was originally going with this was the fact that Ishar didn't seem to have any thought of the Heralds needing any kind of replacements, successors or even support system until around when they started talking about abandoning the Oathpact, so it wouldn't have been likely IMO for him to prepare or even consciously influence the development of the Radiants towards cultivating them as potential successors or replacements. However, I also think that Tanavast was not particularly....particular, in the development of his magic, or his role in things. At least not compared to a lot of the other Shards. I think he had a broad overview of how he wanted his power doled out or represented, that he was intentional in wanting checks and balances on the Surges, but I don't think his mindset was particularly geared towards creating a meticulous framework himself. He seemed pretty comfortable letting Ishar handle the heavy lifting in regards to the shaping of the Oathpact and figuring out the details, and just lent his power where and when needed in order to actualize it all. Similarly, the spren mimicking his granting of the Surges via Honorblades was something that happened organically, based on the intentions of the tiny split off pieces of his power gained sentience....the formation of the Knights Radiant caught even him by surprise and was not part of any grand design on his part. Thus, given that the Nahel bonds in general most directly mimicked and drew upon the nature of Connection, the unique power of Bondsmiths and Ishar....yes, Ishar potentially played more of a role in shaping the HOW of Surgebinding on Roshar, than even Tanavast himself. But even if we find it unlikely that he would consciously set out to build in contingencies for potential successors at the start of the Oathpact, or the formation and early structuring of the Knights Radiant and the progressive nature of their bonds with spren.... If we look at Ishar (much like various Bondsmiths, even including Melishi) as a figure tasked with the enormous burden and responsibility of acting as the lynchpin for the Oathpact just as Bondsmiths act as such for the Orders as a whole....and we factor in these individuals perhaps having a predisposition towards insecurities that uniquely make them able to relate to, understand and connect to other individuals en masse, while at the same time feeling a pressing need to overcompensate and present themselves as larger than life figures capable of bearing the weight of such a responsibility.... Then it actually makes a lot of sense that even from the start, Ishar might have wrestled with fears of not being equal to the task before him, failing to live up to what everyone else needed of him and believing that others might be better suited for his role, even if he was never willing to admit it out loud because he also attached much of his self-worth to BEING in that role. And thus, its actually pretty plausible to me that subconsciously, even thousands of years before he started TALKING about looking for replacement Heralds, he was always hoping for someone to relieve him of this burden, take over for him, or even just viewed it as a necessity due to a deep-rooted belief that he would ultimately fail....and so without even realizing it, when drawing the initial blueprints for the Oathpact - and the Radiant Orders derived from the Heralds - and just basically getting Honor's approval before being given the greenlight and access to his power to make it all happen....he absolutely did build in a potential road to elevating later Radiants to Heraldic status. (I've also been mulling the possibility that however things go after/during the next Return, whatever new role the Heralds end up taking in this new, unprecedented cycle, we might end up seeing at least a few more of the Heralds replaced by successors over the next five books. Especially given the possibility that Retribution's influence might extend at least for a few centuries, judging by the glimpses we've had of Rosharan Knights in the space age. I would not be shocked to find Taln and Ash as two of the few remaining original Heralds by the end of Book 10, with the Heralds still around in some fashion by the time of the full cosmere space age, but now including more of the "modern day" Rosharans - Shallan, Renarin, Rlain, Jasnah, Venli, Szeth, Navani and Lift all being potential prospects. Adolin's the real wildcard for me. With Bo-Ado-Mishram released and Maya potentially restored enough for him to finally swear Oaths, but also the new nature of their bond being predicated on not saying Oaths, he's simultaneously both the most and the least likely to someday join the Heralds IMO....it depends entirely on how much and in what ways the Heralds' role and nature of the Oathpact evolves in the next five books. I could see it going either way).

It varies between Shards, though its not always clear why. Preservation and Ruin had particular trouble leaving Scadrial, because they created the planet and its people together, and so they were heavily Invested in it to a degree other Shards don't Invest in planets they arrive on but that aren't OF them. I believe Harmony has more freedom to move about, but not complete, because he is the combined sum of both those Shards and so he kind of "inherited" their degree of Investment in the planet. I suspect the reason he's not AS bound to it is because of some complex Identity mechanics and him seeing himself as still being the powers that made this planet but also seeing himself as someone born of that planet much later, as opposed to how Ati and Leras saw the planet they'd created as part of their own Identity, they'd made it of their hearts and minds and were Connected to it in a much different way than Sazed was Connected to it by birth. Like, I think their Identities perceive a different degree of responsibility as Creators versus Sazed as a Created Successor of the Creators? Its unclear though. But Honor and Cultivation - and later Odium - had to make a concerted effort to make themselves PART of Roshar, and it wasn't a simple and easy thing....but it wasn't as irreversible a thing as it was for Preservation and Ruin, I think. Because those two were part of every single bit of created matter that ended up comprising the Identity of Scadrial the Planet....tethering them even to its Cognitive makeup, I'd guess....whereas the three gods of Roshar had to root themselves in this planet, adapt Roshar to them and adapt themselves to it.....but their Identities still very much were of extended stay visitors. Honor had even left it for a time to oppose Odium on Alaswha, stuff like that. So ultimately, I think the three of them could have pulled up stakes and moved on at any point, if not for the binding they'd all agreed to at the time. Since Cultivation was making a lot of plans for the future, it makes sense that she had her bags packed and ready to go, if things came to this. I suspect that she might have been more involved with the Radiants in the past - I mean, we haven't seen any Bondsmith for the Nightwatcher in what history we do know, but so much emphasis has been placed on her as one of the three Bondsmith spren and "there can never be more than three at a time" has come up enough that its hard for me to imagine that there's NEVER been a Nightwatcher Bondsmith. And I think that part of being ready to leave at a moment's notice was Cultivation making sure that her plans to try and stop Odium and then Taravangian DIDN'T require her Investing heavily in the Radiants of this period. Her help never involved her seeking out a new Bondsmith for "her" spren, she seemed to have a very hands-off approach to the Orders using her Surges, and I don't believe for a second that Lift is the first person in all of Roshar that's ever used Lifelight....I think the lack of knowledge about Lifelight and the general unavailability of it compared to Stormlight and Voidlight....is BECAUSE she'd been steadily withdrawing her Investiture for awhile, pulling up the roots she'd dug in initially so that she could get out of town ASAP if Odium did win. A huge part of me thinking that Cultivation has a grander plan than what we've seen is because I feel like she HAD to be prepared - in a major way - to leave Roshar with a moment's notice, or else by the very nature of Shards' Investing in a planet, she wouldn't have been able to do it AS quickly (or with as little damage to the rest of the planet) as she seemed to. The degree of prep work I presume had to go into her departure doesn't strike me as someone who was all that blindsided by the possibility Taravangian just might turn out to be not that great after all. This woman was ready to GO. She saw this coming, even with the failsafes we did see her try to engage, like going after Taravangian's kingdom. *Shrugs* That's my take anyway.

I don't think Nightblood runs off of Ruin's Investiture so much as he runs off Investiture, period. I'm of the opinion that the four aspects of Adonalsium referenced in an epigraph ARE Connection, Identity, Fortune and Investiture. And I think they correspond with the four Dawnshards, and that four of the Shards are indicative of them, with the other 12 Shards also corresponding to each of the four Aspects and Dawnshards, three more for each slice of the pie, so to speak. So for instance: 1) Connection (Adonalsium Aspect), the interactions and intersections between things, corresponds to the Dawnshard Connect/Bind/Unite, as well as to the Shard Honor. And there are three more Connection Shards born of this aspect of Adonalsium, the slices of him that were "pulled out" by their sympathetic resonance with the Connect Dawnshard, when it was weaponized against him. 2) Identity (Adonalsium Aspect), the form and structure of things as they are, corresponds to the Dawnshard Exist, as well as to the Shard Preservation. And there are three more Exist Shards born of this aspect, pulled out by their sympathetic resonance with the Exist Dawnshard when it was used against Adonalsium. 3) Fortune (Adonalsium Aspect), the possibility and potential for things as they could be, corresponds to the Dawnshard Change, as well as to the Shard....I'm not sure, actually, but I THINK its Cultivation. Either way, there's three more Fortune based Shards pulled out from this aspect by the Change Dawnshard. 4) Investiture (Adonalsium Aspect), that which makes things in the cosmere MORE than just what they are, corresponds to the Dawnshard whose name I think is something to do with Leave A Mark, as in how the rest of existence is changed BY the existence or presence of a thing. With how a thing changes or what it connects to also having great significance to what kind of mark is left on the cosmere. But I think this one corresponds to the Shard Ruin, the embodiment of entropy in the cosmere...the ultimate evidence of things having existed, the final mark left behind, the last bit to turn to dust. The existence of something only ends when everything else that comprises it is all used up....but the mark it made on its surroundings is still left behind. The Ruins of what once was there. The idea that without death, life doesn't have as much meaning, the whole theme of all beings in the cosmere ending up in the same place eventually, that everything dies, is what makes the choices of how you live your life, the legacy you live behind, more important than the act of dying itself. So I think Nightblood isn't running off of Ruin's Investiture so much as Ruin and Nightblood are just OF Investiture, in a way that Shards (and their creations) derived of Adonalsium's other Aspects just aren't. So there are bound to be similarities, and I think Nightblood is certainly an excellent tool for entropy, but not necessarily because of anything to do with the SHARDS, but rather because of rules/mechanisms older than the Shards themselves...having to do with how pieces born of Adonalsium's Investiture Aspect interact or mirror each other. (Also, I think Endowment is also of the Investiture Aspect, "born" of the Leave a Mark Dawnshard, since the Endowment of anything leaves things in an empirically altered state from what they were before that Endowment.) But of course, this is all just personal conjecture.