Truthwatcher94

Maybe because Thaylens are mostly merchants and sailors, their ancestors had a deep connection with the spren that supports the movements of chasmfiends and the santhids. They were seen in the Physical Realm as small glowing arrows and they are considered by sailors to be lucky omens IIRC. They are also used as mounts in the Cognitive Realm, pulling the intelligent sprens’ ships. I don’t know, maybe they had more interactions with this type of spren that their eyebrows started to grow similar to characteristics of an arrow. Honestly I’m just reaching for something here but as peoples of Roshan goes, aliens and not, their long eyebrows seem to be unique only to them. I can’t recall any animals from Roshar sporting this uniqueness either.

Yes, and correct me if I’m wrong but the sprens of Roshar and its inhabitants before Honor’s and Cultivation’s settlement were already there. It’s safe to assume that the Unmade before their unmaking were also one of these natives. I’ll go as far as to say that they were once important sprens similar to the Stormfather, Nightwatcher and the Sibling before they were heavily Invested. They were beings that weren’t heavily influenced by both Honor and Cultivation during the switching of gods to Odium by the natives. They were most likely obligated to go with the Singers and their cause, whatever that may be at that time. Thus, unmaking them to further support Odium’s efforts to defeat Honor and Cultivation. Corrupting them in a way of inverting their original powers or some sort of a twisted yet still similar and amplified effects. I’m sure they played important roles during the Desolations and to assume the powers of those we haven’t heard of yet is fun yet counterproductive. Anyway, I mostly agree with the assumptions above.

Comparing the occupation of the people from Ashyn of the inhabitants of Roshar to our real world’s long list of colonization record is, in my opinion, spot on. These histories, if for the lack of specific details, tell us that solving and compromising from both sides will never be easy and black and white solutions will never do good without hurting the other. Aside from influencing the future of one country’s, or in this case one planet’s, culture and identity compared to letting their development run its natural course, the peoples are bound to eventually interact with the other without the prejudices of their ancestors. Although there will always be cases that will be remembered by as “unforgivable”, some, especially those with mixed ancestry, will always look for the middle ground and pursue what’s best for both parties. In the case of Stormlight, since several millenia have already passed by, with each Desolation forcing them to go backwards as a people, everyone before Jasnah’s a tad late but brilliant discovery of their true history has always assumed that the way things were had always been it (with the exception of the few immortal beings present). This is one of the many things I love about this series - the way Brandon navigates through all the social problems mirroring ours seems well-researched and thought out. Until we know what happened during the years where the switching of gods took place, we can really never understand why everything turned out to be what they are now. Knowing Brandon’s books, these revelations will never disappoint. Until then, let’s hope and trust Brandon to give the most realistic, albeit not what we expect, ending to the Rosharans, both the settlers and the natives. PS: I’m also from a country with a history of being colonized. One thing I’ve learned throughout the years is that no matter how much you know about your own people’s history, no matter how pissed you are for not witnessing what would have happened when we were left to our own, no matter how up to this day we want to change those, we can’t and we never will. Sometimes it sucks to feel so helpless, I know that very well. Sometimes I daydream of the what ifs and it feels good to give your patriotism a shot once in a while. Therefore, just like the Rosharans of today, we can only do what’s best to move forward and be the best versions of us we can be.

Maybe. We can connect this with their Orders’ resonances just like with the Windrunners’ version of spiritual Adhesion with their number of squires. Their Surges or rather the combination of one Order’s Surges affects their “extra” ability. Then they also have their generally acceptable “characteristic” of their members. Like for the Elsecallers, most of their numbers were scholars (probably people who think logically before acting out), although with a few exceptions. IIRC, Lightweavers’ were described as, aside from most of them were artists, they were also sources of optimism or inspiration to the other Orders. It’s just like their thing. I can’t really remember the reference for this, but I believe this was either written in the in-world book of WOR or carved on those gem thingies in Urithiru. Windrunners have their extra number of squires (resonance) and are considered to be militaristic to a fault (character). Lightweavers have mnemonic abilities (resonance) and are inspirational (character). And so on… The Surges’ Physical “version” is obviously their power to influence the natural laws of Roshar. The Spiritual side might be their Resonances? And their Cognitive would leave us with their characteristics as part of one specific Order?

I’ll stick with my first guess: Keeper of Words. We’ll finally see Shinovar in this book, so the keepers are obviously the Shin stone shamans.

As with all the Orders, including the Bondsmiths and the “enlightened” Truthwatchers, all of them are still bound by oaths, right? I think, it’s just that simple, people. Spren that can bind people with oaths and ideals, together they can be Radiant. I can’t recall anything as of this writing as to Sja-anat accepting oaths just like the Stormfather and the Sibling. We can assume that this is how the Nightwatcher operates, as well. As for Sja-anat, with her limited scenes, I can only remember her corrupting or giving enlightenment to other spren. Although, this might make her rather superior to others of her kind, she hasn’t bonded with anyone or, at least, implied that she can, IIRC. Assuming the Unmade are once of Honor/Cultivation, then unmade by Odium, then maybe, there are still parts with H/C in them, which makes them hybrid spren. But does that make them Bondsmith-spren/godspren material? I don’t think so. Bondsmith is the only Radiant Order with no equivalent group from the Fused. I believe there was a WoB about this, and this has a lot to do with the surge of Adhesion, which is believed to be purely of Honor and their obsession with Connection. Also, what abilities will the Fused’s Bondsmith have? Each type has only one ability and Adhesion is viewed with prejudice. So, I just strongly disagree that there would be a Bondsmith from Odium’s side. I would rather entertain the idea of a hybrid Bondsmith like the Sibling with Honor-Odium or Cultivation-Odium combos. At least, with this, if there ever is a possible spren, then it would still be bound by oaths. If the Stormfather or the Nightwatcher might have “mingled” with one of the Unmade, produced an offspring like the Sibling, then maybe. Sja-anat will definitely play an important role in the future, though. If your theory was “maybe Sja-anat is an offspring of Honor/Cultivation and an Unmade or some other Odium spren”, then maybe she can be a Bondsmith spren.

I kinda agree with this. Brandon, so far, has been giving us two climaxes from the SA books. One for the present timeline and one for the flashbacks. Kaladin’s for being a slave, Shallan’s for her resolve in stealing Jasnah’s fake soulcaster, Dalinar’s in forgetting his wife, and Venli’s/Eshonai’s calling the Everstorm. Szeth’s climax, for me, would be the reason why he was named Truthless. I’m hoping SA4/KoW builds up to this moment. This would also mean more screen time in Shin and their culture. Suregbinding training with the Shin’s Stone Shamans, discussing the difference between the Surges and possibly their Heralds/Orders is pure bliss.

Can I just also add something for the spren issues above, we know that the Nahel bond is a symbiotic relationship for the Knight and the spren, right? The humans get Surgebinding, Shardblade/plate while the spren get what? Sapience in the Physical Realm is it not? God, I hope I’m right. Feel free to correct me. Kindly, though. Anyway, because humans with all their eccentricities and unpredictability they provide a stronger bond for the spren. IIRC, this was said by Syl. While I don’t have anything against the Listeners, which will probably be the base for our new Willshapers, I don’t think Timbre, Venli’s spren, will ever talk like human’s do. They can communicate, sure, with their rhythms and the mutual connection between both parties. But never like Kal and Syl, or Shallan and Pattern or any human-spren partnership. I’m not saying which is better because both mediums of communication work just as well as the other but I’m saying the spren chose which is better for them or at least, whichever they thought can give them the stronger bond. And the WoB mentioned above with Brandon explaining some events from the past why the spren chose the humans over them strongly disagrees that any Singer-Radiants were created. To answer OP, since maybe we have established that Singers were never a candidate for a Bondsmith or any Radiant bond, the Sibling’s more-than-a-little reluctance to bonding humans again, and all the testimonies of the spren that humans’ betrayal caused the genocide of 8 sapient spren races, we can probably agree Melishi was human. And the strongest proof would be Honor and Cultivation chose the humans as their “people” or was it just Honor? Anyway, by doing this, it would be logical to say that the spren were endorsed to the species that their Father and Mother chose, right? Was it also Honor who controlled or limited Surgebinding to avoid abuse and eventually destroying Roshar? Can he also maybe, I don’t know, control where or who gets these privileges? That’s maybe why humans get exclusive seats to Radiancy. With him gone now, the spren can choose whomever they like. By the way, aren’t Aimians already heavily Invested because of their strange abilities and all? If they are, then maybe they are bad candidates for the Nahel bond. I know Heralds are also Invested of some sort but they are special cases. And besides, Aimians are weird, I can’t think the spren would want any more questions to solve when the humans got their hands full.

Several clues were given to support that this is probably what’s best for Roshar and the spren. It was after BAM’s capture that the Sibling lost their ability to create Towerlight, or rather their production of it is not like how it was before. This was shared by the Sibling during one of their conversations with Navani in RoW. Deadeyes were non-existent before her capture. Ancient Radiants can betray their oaths before but not like the present Radiants that “kill” their spren, creating deadeyes. This is before they swear their fifth Ideal, of course. Because by then, only death can break the Nahel bond. Slaveform or the form the Parshmen wore before the advent of the Everstorm was also created sometime after BAM’s exile. There was something in Mishram that also ripped something from Roshar, the spren, and the Singers when she was imprisoned. Now, observe that all the effects I’ve mentioned apply only to the native inhabitants of Roshar. I’m not sure if there are any direct effects to humans after this event but it was theorized that Mishram was the reason why the Recreance happened in the first place. And it just made a lot more sense since we’ve found out that the supposed “betrayal” of the ancient Knights Radiant was actually a consensual choice between the Radiants and their spren. This is an indirect effect to the humans but a huge blow, nevertheless. But to answer your question, maybe because Kalak is a Herald, a crazy one I know, but he probably knows more since he’s lived for millennia already. He knows the answer as to why and, also, Brandon. But the clues are there, we’re just not getting the whole picture yet. And it starts with what or who is BAM before she was Unmade. We’ll probably find out in book 5.

Rhythm of Revolution I have read this from other topics within the forum that Rhythm of War, a hybrid of Honor’s and Odium’s tones and rhythms, can be best described as something that causes passionate conquest bound by rules and laws. An overzealous faith in one’s particular cause can be dangerous, especially when every nation of Roshar or in any world for that matter have differing beliefs/religions. This Rhythm can be why Roshar has been in a constant state of war and conflict ever since Odium has been Invested and bound to it. Meanwhile, the Rhythm of the Tower - evokes the "boundless energy of Cultivation, always growing and changing, and the calm solidity of Honor - organized, structured." (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Lights) I’d like to shorten this as something that promotes controlled growth. Honor’s and Cultivation’s lights and rhythms combined provides this effect to the Tower and consequently to its inhabitants. The effect of breathing in Towerlight, which only Navani can do, is still unknown. Maybe the Radiant can gain a sense of patience, to wait and act at the right time. Unlike Stormlight which persuades the user to move and act and Voidlight that enflames emotions. Now for Cultivation’s and Odium’s rhythm and tone combination, growth/change and passion/hatred can result to a lot of things. Currently, only Venli’s experience can be our reference. Here are some quotes from RoW: “Venli searched for something else. The tone of Cultivation. Odium’s song could suffuse her, fueling her powers and enflaming her emotions, but that tone … that tone had belonged to her people long before he’d arrived. While she searched for it, she listened to her mother’s songs in her mind. Like chains, spiked into the stone so they’d remain strong during storms, they reached backward through time. Through generations.” “The tone snapped into her mind, Cultivation and Odium mixing into a harmony, and it thrummed through Venli. She opened her eyes as power spread from her through the stones. They began to shake and vibrate to the sound of her rhythm, liquid, forming peaks and valleys in time with the music. The floor, ceiling, and walls before her rippled, and a trail of people formed from the stone. Moving, alive again, as they strode away from pain, and war, and killing. Excerpt From Rhythm of War Sanderson, Brandon It doesn’t really describe what did she feel upon hearing the harmony of the both tones. So, I made deductions same with the Rhythms of War and of the Tower. It felt like the harmonizing was something needed for her to use Cohesion. A chaotic mess of passion on one, and a never-ending progression on the other. Together, an ill-advised modification? Or something that supports a REVOLUTION? But a revolution without need can result to a broken system or people but a passionate or emotional reason behind it can be a catalyst for something better. We see this in Venli which, I have just now realized, was what she mostly needed to move forward. Something must change inside her, and something did. Venli stopped thinking of just herself, for once she stopped being selfish and became a Radiant. See, this is a change forced by her circumstances and its a good thing. It led her to Radiance and now she’s ready to start her own revolution for her people and for their freedom. Therefore, Rhythm of Revolution is my strong guess.

In the Physical Realm, they see them as Shardblades, same as everyone. Eshonai owned one before she was killed and I don’t recall her saying something weird about it. Now, if you’re asking how the singers/listeners feel about the deadeye-situation, I’d say they feel indifferent since the whole spren-betrayed-us incident and maybe a little of you-get-what-you-deserve kind of feeling? I guess it depends on how much they blame the sprens for abandoning them and forcing their ancestors to be slaves of Odium.

Shallan and Dalinar for me. I hated Shallan in WoK, but I slowly liked her in the second and third book. But by the end of Oathbringer when her DID was clearer, I can’t think of anything else other than be scared for her and the people around her. Just as her arcs are not something I just read because it must be integral to the story but something I really enjoy (I really liked the thriller Brandon made with her Veil-reconnaissance scenes), she just keeps on getting more broken. And I didn’t think I can support her decisions anymore. But by the end of RoW, when Kaladin and Shallan accepted and understood that being Radiants doesn’t fix how broken they are but to keep on fighting harder, I can really say Shallan made it very far from the girl she once was. Dalinar’s story and progress had the most impact for me. Introducing him as an honorable man then breaking him with the truth of his forgotten past (credits to one dragon), then choosing to rise up back again because he needed to, really shows how Bondsmith-worthy he is. I can’t stop shaking while reading the Battle of Thaylenah and I think that was one of Brandon’s best yet. I have to admit that reading the first SA book, all I cared about was Kaladin’s chapters. I didn’t care much for Dalinar’s and certainly not for Shallan’s.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that WoB, there was a reason why Jasnah is having trouble with coming back to the Physical Realm. I don’t recall if that reason was disclosed by Brandon later on. She needed to find a Perpendicularity to cross realms, even though she doesn’t need one, right? Nevertheless, she can Elsecall and we still can’t confirm how far along she was on her ideals back then. Maybe because of how dangerous Division actually is. Even now, I can’t picture out how the Skybreakers fight with this surge while flying. I’ve read some theories on how Gravitation and Division work together but so far none have impressed me. Well, book 5 is Szeth’s book, so maybe we can see how this works. I would love to see that and every other combinations of the two surges that make one Order distinguishable. I disagree with Soulcasting not similarly regulated. We have seen Pattern warn Shallan repeatedly about how dangerous and how not ready she is when using this surge and Cryptics are less uptight than Inksprens. Its just Jasnah makes it look so easy. I still think that Elsecallers’ oaths are words spoken, same as every Order we’ve seen. Idk if there was a WoB about this or I have read this in the books, but all Orders, with the exception of the Lightweavers with their Truths, speak Ideals to progress. So, most likely, Elsecallers do, too. But, I agree that this would be consistent with how Inksprens expect more from their Radiants. I can imagine them asking their Knights to prove whatever Ideal they have just spoken with action and not just lip-service. That would be funny.

I believe it was the lack of stormlight that detained her in Shadesmar, not the inability to use the surge of Teleportation, IIRC. And we can’t just assume that the use of the second surge equates to swearing the third Ideal. Kaladin can already use the three lashings before his third. Venli, I think, has been using Cohesion several times in RoW and attempting a lesser version of Teleportation before her second. Dalinar has also demonstrated the use of both Tension and Adhesion before his third. Shallan’s progress is a mess, so her experience as a Radiant is unreliable. The only Order that has said that their second surge can be utilized after their third Ideal are the Skybreakers. I’m too lazy to quote their references, so just feel free to correct me. This lack of information from other Orders frustrate me, too. Elsecallers and the other four Orders are to be discussed further in SA 6-10. I’m just hoping that the truth they will uncover in Shinovar from book 5 contains detailed information on all the Orders so we don’t have to wait five years for them. Anyway, happy waiting everyone!

1. Rlain should’ve been a Bondsmith or just a regular Truthwatcher. Navani being the Sibling’s Bondsmith made sense, I know. I just didn’t like that Rlain was made into a corrupted Truthwatcher. He was made more of an outcast than he already is. He saw and he “sees” both sides now. A very important requirement for the Thruthwatchers, understanding humans and Parshendi, with or without prejudice and all. A regular Truthwatcher, Brandon, from a semi-main character’s POV, is what I’m asking for, since Renarin’s too different and you want him to stay that way. Sighing heavily* 2. Dalinar-Kaladin climax scene is a bit too convenient for me. I know that the Kaladin-superhero comeback was something Brandon had been cooking in the back of his cosmere-vast and marvelous brain for a long time. Dont’t get me wrong, the scene was epic and one of the most awaited from Kaladin - his fourth Ideal. It was expected, we all saw it coming and we loved Brandon for it. But Dalinar’s involvement was a tad unnecessary and off, I don’t know, one moment he was flying to the other side of the world, the next he was forcing the Stormfather to do what he wants and help the poor boy. Boo-hoo. It was…easy? I was hoping that Kaladin resolved it with Syl and Tien (his intervention could be something he makes up in his mind from seeing his father falling?), on their own. 3. Shallan’s arc just got messier and messier with every book. With the addition of a new Cryptic (would it be more appropriate to call Testament old?) all the calculations of how further along Shallan was with her oaths just went out of all my windows. I love my puzzles but the Davar heroine is testing my patience. I used to hate her in the first book, loved her in the second and third but by the fourth, I’m worried that Brandon may have overdone it. 4. Just kill Moash! I don’t want any redemption arc or even a possibility of him having one.

Right? Brandon if you’re reading this, please put it on record that I called it first! Seriously, it might be something the Heralds or Ishar wrote for the Shin, which is believed (correct me if I’m wrong) to be an Ashyn-town for Roshar. They were entrusted to guard the powers that once destroyed their previous home planet after the Heralds left. Maybe that’s why they have all these rules about treating stormlight as holy and give more importance to preserving life than taking it. IIRC, they are also trained the use of the Honorblades but within controlled environment and supervision. They respect the Heralds as gods and maybe this book is like the Bible to them. Between the end of RoW and the beginning of book 5, which was set within days, I don’t know how much information our main characters can get from Shinovar and will it have the weight to affect Dalinar’s decisions moving forward. But I guess, Brandon wouldn’t squeeze this in if it wasn’t or maybe the Shin storyline will happen after the showdown of champions. This is probably for another thread. Anyway, that’s my theory, an in-world book of guidelines made for the future residents of Roshar but made into laws of a country. And don’t get me started on the real world similarities of persecuting someone who asks questions that undermine the authenticity of a holy book. PS: I’m new to the forum, so please be kind, thanks!

Idk if anyone already guessed this but how about Keeper of Words? Since the Shin probably know everything and probably wanted to stay that way. Words for the ideals and all. Edit: Keeper of the Words, maybe?