ShardlessVessel

Not exactly; here's a quote from my Kindle copy: It's somewhat ambiguous what happened here. Did the girl lose Breath, or did her Breath simply weaken for a moment before bouncing back to normal? I still don't think this would be "unkeying" a Breath if the girl had transferred it to Vasher, as that is a basic BioChroma ability ("My Breath to yours, my life become yours"). Unkeying would be if the girl had put some Breaths into a rope and then Vasher took those Breaths from the rope.

I disagree, but that's because I see this differently from you, I think. There are two requirements for using a metalmind: Identity and Investiture. If you are a Feruchemist, you can use any metalminds that are compatible with your own Identity. If you are not a Feruchemist, you cannot use metalminds at all. An unkeyed metalmind lets anyone that already has the ability to use Feruchemy access it, regardless of Identity. An unsealed metalmind is an unkeyed metalmind that lets anyone use it, regardless of whether they have the correct innate Investiture or not. Anyone can use Breaths. In this sense, they are already unsealed. However, when they are used for Awakening, Breaths become keyed. But again, we can see this differently. All terminology is arbitrary, anyway. I don't think this is quite the same thing. Vasher told the girl a Command so that she could erase her own memories.

I wouldn't call that "unsealing". Breaths aren't sealed in the first place, as you don't need to be specially Invested to use them. I think "unkeyed" would be a more appropriate term in this case. Pedantry aside, I believe this should be possible. The obvious answer is aluminum Feruchemy; assuming Breaths are keyed by Identity, like metalminds, then by filling an aluminum-mind at the same time that you Awaken an object, it should be possible for another person to draw them out. That said, I also think it should be possible to do with BioChroma alone. Breath can do more than just Awakening, as we've seen it mess with memories. Brandon has implied that it can do more than that, and I believe unkeying Breaths should be possible with the correct Command, or perhaps by wording a regular Command in a specific way.

I know all of that, my question is in how the lines between Selish dominions are divided. Kingdom borders, or geographical coincidence? Perhaps a bit of both?

That's a good point. I guess another angle would be to consider whether a geopolitical change could also affect the Dor. Again, because Cognitive Realm and Perception. It's probably entirely geographical, however.

I was reading a few topics on this forum and came across this thread from 2020. Not wanting to raise it back from the dead, I am making a new thread to continue the discussion with my own suggestion regarding why the number of Elantrians is limited. There is one Elantrian for each Aon, like happens with Seons. There is a limited number of Aons, and so with one Elantrian representing each Aon, the number of Elantrians is also limited. I have no idea how Elantrians are chosen, but we know from WOB that it's not completely random. I initially thought that it might even be the Aon in their name, but a quick search through the Coppermind yields four different Elantrians named after Aon Rii. Speaking of which, it's been asked, and apparently it has more to do with Connection.

The title is actually a red herring, as I hope the tags imply. The discussion I want to start is regarding a question that I've wanted to ask Brandon for a while, but I don't think I'll ever get the opportunity - so let's discuss for ourselves, yes? What exactly determines who gets which magic system? We know that being born in a given territory gives you a Connection to the symbols of that territory, but what classifies as a territory? Is it geographical or geopolitical? Is an Elantrian an inhabitant of the kingdom of Arelon or an inhabitant of the surroundings of Elantris? If the borders between nations were to change - that is, if an empire were to annex a kingdom, or a kingdom were to be split into multiple nations, would the magic be affected in some way? If the Fjordell Empire annexed Arelon, would AonDor still work? And if it did, would it work in the same way? My gut instinct is yes to both of those questions, because we know that both the Fjordell and Rose empires seem to have multiple magic systems within them, but I'm not certain. The Dor exists in the Cognitive Realm, so it would make sense for it to reflect perceived distinctions between locations rather than spatial organization.

I don't think so. Harmony is conflicted because he's incomplete. Ruin objects to saving lives because it doesn't understand Mercy. Preservation lacks Ambition to grow, and allows stagnation. If you had all Shards together, I think they would balance each other.

There's more to it. Brandon has confirmed - in no uncertain terms, he specifically said he wasn't being tricky - that Nightblood has some of Ruin's Investiture. I believe Nightblood was made from a hemalurgic spike.

I may be pointing out the obvious here, but this is something I see brought up every now and then and wanted to discuss. There is a WoB that confirms that it is possible to use Feruchemy to support Allomancy; like Compounding, but in the opposite direction. I believe we have seen a form of this in the books already. When Wax pushes with increased weight, his metalminds are drained, consuming his Feruchemical reserves to power his Allomancy. When he drains the metalminds to become extremely heavy and then pushes, the reserves are gone in an instant, like burning duralumin on his metalminds. Why should that happen? An ironmind simply makes you heavier, which should make your steelpushes stronger as a side effect, but when Wax does that, it drains the metalminds. To me, this is an indication that what is actually happening is that Wax is converting between forms of Investiture, taking power from his metalminds and plugging it into his Allomancy, just like a Compounder takes power from their Allomancy and plugs it into their metalminds. I wonder what other Twinborn combinations could do something like this. F-Duralumin could boost emotional Allomancy, and maybe F-Chromium could enhance internal temporal metals by accessing more Fortune.

You're right in this case, but be careful about assuming that any silvery metal interacting oddly with magic is aluminum. There is at least one case where it really is just silver.

I'm talking Mistborn Adventure Game, actually.

This is for roleplaying game purposes. Do we have information on whether any poisons work on kandra?

Corruption doesn't have to happen between Shards. Soulforging is a type of corruption. I think it's more to do with the Identity of the being you're trying to mess with than the Shard to whom the Investiture belongs.

That was what I was thinking of, yeah, but it was mostly a joke. Hoid can just hum to manipulate the Light. I wonder if blowing the Stormlight through the flute would have an effect, however.

Good point. I'll have to rethink this.

No, I think he's trying to hack all the magics. Why he wants that, I don't know.

It's something of a consensus in the community that, for whatever reason, Hoid has been traveling to various worlds and acquiring their magics for some purpose, maybe for amassing power, or maybe as a hobby. Whenever he lands on a planet, he tries to get that magic system. However, I don't think he's simply "collecting" these magics. I've been thinking about Investiture and how it relates to rhythm and color, and I think I have a hunch on why Hoid has been acquiring the Invested Arts we've seen him collect, and it's for a very specific reason: converting Investiture between forms and manipulating raw Investiture. We have seen Hoid acquire very specific magic systems. He has: Failed to become an Elantrian Stolen the Moon Scepter Become an Allomancer Become an Awakener Become a Surgebinder Selish magics require their user to induce a specific waveform into the Dor to create a given effect. As an Elantrian, he would be able to manipulate these waveforms and study how they affect the Dor itself. The Moon Scepter is the next best thing, as it helps to convert between the local magic systems. Allomancers give off distinct Rhythms when they burn metals and have the ability to perceive the Rhythms produced by other Invested individuals. Awakeners of the second Heightening have perfect pitch. This helps Hoid distinguish minute details of sound. Also, though it only reaches perfection at the third Heightening, he also has enhanced color perception. Surgebinders utilize Rosharan Lights, which oscillate with light and sound in ways that reflect the nature of the Investiture that they contain. Putting this all together: Hoid has the understanding of the waveforms that power Investiture from the Moon Scepter, the ability to perceive those waveforms via Bronze, the auditory acuity to distinguish them from Breath, and an abundant source of malleable Investiture that responds to sound in the form of Stormlight. All he needs now is a musical instrument.

This is a sequence of thought processes that built on one another and let to some slightly crazy conclusions. I was initially thinking of Breath-based fabrials. Theoretically, it should be possible to get any kind of gaseous Investiture into a polestone (or any kind of Investiture at all), so logically if you could get Breath into a polestone and fit a metal cage around it, you could use that to power a fabrial. The question is: how do you put the Breath in there? It’s easy enough to put Stormlight into a gemstone, as you can simply leave it out during a highstorm. That wouldn’t work for Breath. Maybe you could have an Awakener Breathe into the stone, but unless they are of a very high Heightening, that is unlikely to be possible. But what about tuning forks? You can use a specially constructed tuning fork to take Light out of a polestone and move it to another. The process is simple: hit the fork to make it vibrate, then touch the vibrating fork to an infused gemstone. This produces a flow of Light that you can then push into another gemstone by touching it with the fork. Could you do that with Breath? Could it be possible to pull Breath out of an object by creating a tuning fork that vibrates to Endowment’s Tone and using it to draw Breath out of, say, a shirt and then into a gemstone? And what does this have to do with aluminum? Well, consider that to move Investiture around you use vibration. Vibrate an object at the right frequency, and you can pull Investiture into it, or through it. The question now is: could you vibrate an object at a frequency that would push Investiture out? Yes. We see in Rhythm of War that if you expose a gem bearing Voidlight to Odium’s anti-Tone, the Voidlight is pushed out of it. Most objects don’t particularly care about what Tone you input into them. Infuse a stone with Adhesion and it will stick to a wall. Command a wall to turn into smoke and it will comply. Convince a mural that it was actually painted on the lower floor and it will appear there. What if you had a material that did care about frequency it vibrates at? A material that responds to a Tone with its anti-Tone, cancelling it out? This is what I think aluminum is actually doing, and also the effect it provides in Allomancy. When you try to Invest aluminum, it resonates with an incompatible Tone, shoving the Investiture out of itself. When you burn aluminum, you are not Investing it, but instead replicating its properties, creating a cacophony of anti-Tones that cleanses all kinetic Investiture in your body. This would also explain why Invested things resist external Investiture. When an object isn’t Invested, it’s not vibrating to any particular Shard’s Tone. However, when it is Invested, it vibrates with a Rhythm that combines the Identity of whoever Invested it and the pure Tone of the Shard to whom that Investiture belongs, and you need to either match that Rhythm or just brute force your way into the object with a lot of Investiture - which is confirmed by WoB to be possible, though very difficult, to do to aluminum.

There's a planet with a magic system that only works if you don't believe in it. If you acknowledge that the magic is happening, it stops working.

Maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought. What I meant is: what if you try to steal something that the victim doesn't have? If you used steel to spike a victim, you would be stealing Physical Allomancy. But what if the person you stab with a steel spike doesn't have Allomancy at all? I wonder what would happen. I'm not sure if we have definitive information, but I want to see what the community thinks. I'm divided on whether the spike rips anything or not - you're stabbing the right place with the right metal, but you have the wrong person. Is it enough to charge a useless spike, or does it entirely fail?

Suppose you went to Nalthis with a steel dagger and knowledge of Hemalurgy. You find a victim and stab them through the heart right in the Coinshot nerve to steal from them. What happens? Does the spiking fail and leave the dagger uncharged, or does it become a charged spike that grants no powers?

I haven't formalized it into a "theory", but my personal conjecture is that the Dawnshards represent the fundamental Spiritual aspects of the Cosmere. Connection, Identity, Fortune and... Intent? I'm not sure about the fourth.

The way I understand it, when you spike someone, either spiking something out or spiking something in, the spike itself undergoes Realmic transition (which isn't a ridiculous notion - this is essentially how sand mastery works) and literally touches the spiritweb. When you extract a trait from someone, the spike adheres to the spiritweb and rips a piece off of it. When you then insert the spike in someone else, it literally sticks to their spiritweb and creates a weak point. To make the point again because I sound vague even to myself: the spike transitions into the Spiritual Realm, as if it travelled through a tiny perpendicularity, and literally pierces the soul. That's why there are holes.

Seons work on other planets. Not sure whether they can communicate from one planet to another, though.