therunner

Perhaps, could be an option. Or the nature of being Kandra and being tied closely to Hemalurgy renders them more susceptible? Yes, but not all Connection is equal, see e.g. Kel in SH, he was much more Connected to Ruin then to Preservation. So there is variation even among Scadrians. I think to take control/influence you need more than just regular Connection, it must be deeper or at least very encompassing. But it would leave them open to control by Autonomy no? Since it is Autonomies Investiture in the spiritweb. From what we see in Era 1, Intent is absolutely necessary when trying to control Hemalurgic construct, so it would be the same for the controlling Hemalurgist. I think I do agree with you that Trellium does grant protection, but I would say that instead of filling in the cracks, it is just repulsive to other Investiture, just like it does as metal. So it could be overpowered, however it would be more difficult, or it would shift the threshold required for Shard to take over. Someone should ask Brandon, or tell him to release more books quickly

Huh, that is much more of an advantage then I imagined. ... So Since spears are better for a fight then swords, Shardspears are even better then Shardblades. Sylspear for the win

If neither has their powers activated prior to 'start', and both are proficient with their powers, I would say Bondsmith wins even considering F-steel. First move of Fullborn will be to tap F-steel as much as possible, since otherwise they don't stand a chance. But Bondsmith can also slow down time (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15849), so they could at least partially counter that (e.g. bring down relative difference from 1:80 to only 1:6 or lower). So do that, and also open perpendicularity, slip into CR, find representation of Fullborn, and manipulate Connections from there however you want, e.g. to steal Connection to metalminds, rendering Fullborn just Mistborn. That should be possible.

So, in the numerous vs. discussion one topic comes up repeatedly and that is Stormlight and its physical enhancements (most relevant in Radiant vs X discussions). The typical line of argumentation is that Stormlight does not enhance strength, since it 'perfects' and most characters don't note increase in strength, counterarguments typically listing various feats that are beyond regular (as in, not holding Stormlight) abilities of the Radiant in question. However, I think RoW pretty clearly proves that Stormlight does increase strength, and considerably even. On pg. 542 Kaladin fights Stormform Regal, and the following happens: He later on notes that Regal is stronger than him, however he still held back Regal swinging an axe at him, and Regal had to struggle to try and push it into him. Note that Stormform are stronger than Warform, and Warform are already stronger then baseline humans. Warform jump across the chasms on Shattered planes, and Stormform do it without running start, and those chasms are around ~10 meters wide. I think this safely puts Stormform at 2x the Rosharan human at minimum. (Sidenote: I think there was some mention that already Warform are about twice as strong as human, however I cannot find it. If so, it would put Stormform comfortably at 3x human strength). So how to reconcile this with the statement that most Radiant don't feel increase in strength? I would suggest it works exactly as stated i.e. it perfects, and human muscles can already allow for far greater strength, they just get damaged in the process. And since Stormlight can heal this damage as it happens (and also strengthens the body against damage a little bit), then it can let human body operate at that capacity. So Radiant with Stormlight would not be 'stronger' in the sense of multiplier that A-pewter burner experiences, were their strength is actively increased, but instead Stormlight lets them reach higher highs than usual. Similar to hysterical strength, except without the damage TLDR: Stormlight lets Radiant do feats comparable to hysterical strength, without incurring the damage. As a result, while not getting strength enhancement per se, their peak strength is in fact increased. So basically their 'strength range' is extended higher, so they can exert themselves beyond their non-Invested peak. But same exertion still results in same strength as non-Invested. Whereas A-pewter multiplies the range as whole, so same exertion leads to greater effect.

But Fullborn can fundamentally still only do what regular Feruchemist can, they just have more stores to do it with. So they can heal quicker (not caring about loss), and more grevious wounds, but if there is some fundamental limitation, then they won't be able to bypass it (e.g. limit on storage rate, F-steel and friction, etc.). Magic and its limitations is still the same, they just have more fuel to do it with. Whereas Radiant healing + Regrowth is stacking two different abilities, making each other stronger, sort of like Mistborn with Spike can do things the same Mistborn without spike could not do. Radiants already heal Shardblade wounds, the key is whether they could heal having spine severed (which presumably severs connection to Physical realm). Additionally, we don't know how Nale used the Regrowth fabrial, or how it works. Perhaps he needed to infuse both the body and soul to heal him (and the healing was not fully successful). I don't F-gold is necessarily better, and I agree it can heal Shardblade wounds. What I dispute is that F-gold can heal Shardblade death. The burned out eyes and loss of color in general suggest that whether happens is more comprehensive then just dying. E.g. if it does sever connection to the body completely, then Fullborn cannot heal that, since their Investiture comes from Physical realm, from the Metalminds. Right now it seems to me based on what is actually seen in books, is that Sharblade to spine/head is fatal to basically everything/everyone, and only external interference can be used to save someone killed in this manner. Does not matter, metalminds on limbs cut with Shardblade cannot be accessed, so someone killed via Shardblade would not be able to access any metalminds, no matter where on their body. Feruchemists/Fullborns soul is no longer in the body, so metalminds are no longer accessible to them. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/91/#e813)

Kaladin in RoW states that Fused die when hit to head, spine or gemheart with Shardblade. That is despite them having Voidlight in system. Could you find the part with Regrowth Fused? Or at least general location in book? With Shardblade/Honorblade? Possibly. Edit: Thought Regrowth could heal that possibly, and Radiant healing is superior to Regrowth (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/451/#e14448). Though I think in this particular case the issue would be that Connection to body and Physical realm is severed, so healing has nothing to heal.

Heralds in fact do heal worse than Radiants, because the bond between Honorblades and them is shallower, E.g. Szeth cannot heal Shardblade cut. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/116/#e4788) Heralds themselves had some other powers, but presumably the healing came from Honorblades and Stormlight. So they would be able to heal repeatadly (infinite stormlight from Honor) however there were wounds they would be unable to heal (but Radiant could). Also, healing of Radiants is very spiritual based, and likened to Hoid healing here (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/7/#e6435). So I would expect Radiant healing to be superior to Compounded Gold, even when both have infinite supplies. Additionally, Shardblade to the spine kills even Fused, and severs on all three realms. Since Fullborn is dependant on mainting connection to Metalminds for his healing, severed spine/head could probably kill them. Of course F-steel renders this line of attack moot.

"Bit more" in this context is still something like ~100 atoms per m^3, since most of the material is bound up in the comets and asteroids. They would need quite a while before they would gather enough to actually move anywhere Human body has ~7 octillion atoms, ~10^28, so even if they could reduce their weight to 0.1%, they would have to gather all atoms within 10^25 m^3 of space to be able to effectively push (as in, move themselves and not the dust cloud). Assuming range of their pulls is 1 km (10^3 m) then they would have to travel for ~10^17 meters (circa 10 light year) before gathering enough material to push off of. Fullborn is dead in water in space. And this does not even consider that most of the free atoms in space is hydrogen, followed by helium, neither of which would count as metal most likely (since Mistborn or Fullborn cannot push on water), so it would take even longer to gather enough metallic atoms. Edit: Using their own metalminds is possible, but they would not be able to break off atom sized bytes, so they would be far less effective. Plus, the fact that metalminds are presumably as Invested as possible in this case limits Fullborn since they would not be able to push on them effectively.

Not going to get into details of this entire discussion, however there is a lower bound on how much attribute you can store (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105/#e1096) That is an area where Fullborn is just as limited as regular Feruchemist, so they would not be able to push off ions, or even dust particles, they would not be able to get that light. Additionally, space is reeaaaly empty, and range on Pushes/Pulls is 'small' (as in dozens of feet for Lerasium Mistborn) and BoM (if they can be taken as example) don't really showcase that range would increase to millions of km (which would the bare minimum you would need in space). E.g. Kuiper belt (relatively 'dense' part of Solar System) has average space between two objects ~ couple of million of km. So if Somehow Windrunner managed to get Fullborn into space and fired them in basically any direction, Fullborn is doomed to die (if they have finite resources). Not to undersell Fullborn, but in space they are pretty much helpless as far as mobility goes, simply because there is nothing for them to push on.

And all Cryptics call themselves Pattern, and it takes proding for them to take another name. Testament was named that way in RoW only, it is entirely possible (and even probable) that when Shallan bonded them, they called themselve simply Pattern, like Cryptics do. So Shallan calling for Pattern could still summon Pattern-Testament, not Pattern-Pattern.

I like this theory, though not sure about the implications on the 'powers' so to speak. But to this I would like to add, because it fits very well: Windrunner: Protecting -> Leading Kaladin stars as very protective, and through Oaths learns more responsibility (to protect 'equally' on 3rd Oath) and that he has to let go/delegate (4th Oath) Skybreakers: Just -> Confident Szeth is very lawful person (so we could call him 'just' for given meaning), and he is slowly learning to be more confident in his choices 5th Ideal being 'I am the Law', could be interpreted as full confidence of Skybreaker in their own understanding of justice, without need to rely on external crutches Dustbringers: Brave -> Obedient Not sure on this, we have not seen much Edgedancers: Loving -> Healing Lift is loving/caring in her own way, and wants to help others The Oaths also seem to start with noticing the forgotten (caring for them), listening to ignored (and you have to listen to he able to heal and help), so I would expect 4th Ideal to be about acting on the knowledge gleaned from the forgotten and ignored ones Sidenote: Adolin fits with Edgedancers very well: Caring for Maya (who is forgotten deadeye even by other spren), Listening to her (paying attention to her bevaior, literally hearing her name), and helps her get voice (RoW) Truthwatchers: Learned -> Giving Renarin and Rlain do both seem to be learned and inquisitive, but they are also Corrupted truthwatchers Stump not sure how she fits honestly Lightweavers: Creativity -> Honesty All Lightweavers are very creative even if in different ways, and their Oaths literally force them to be Honest with themselves and others, so they fit perfectly Elsecallers: Wisdom -> Care Jasnah could be called wise (if maybe a bit sheltered from some practicalities), and the scene with Renarin where she most likely swears 4th Ideal afterwards does suggest that tempering 'wisdom/logic' with care is crucial in progress Willshaper: Resolute -> Builder Both Eshonai and Venli were/are resolute Singers (one determined to explore lands and then defend her people, the other to explore their history and heritage and bring gods back, then to free herself and others from Fused), will it lead to building is a question Stonewards: Dependable -> Resourceful Little information, so cant tell (though if Taln becomes Radiant, he would be dependable like no one else) Bondsmiths: Pious -> Guiding Both Dalinar and Navani are quite religious people (Dalinar's obsessive reading and ruminating on Way of Kings, Navani often thinks of Allmighty and burns prayers etc.), and Dalinar definately becomes a guiding person (leading by example) where Navani guides by nudging people and putting them in right place (her coordination of scientists) So since 6/10 Orders show this pattern quite strongly (Windrunners, Skybreakers, Edgedancers, Lightweavers, Elsecallers, Bondsmiths) I think you are on to something there.

I can get behind that interpretation of F-steel enhancements! They would be sufficient for what F-steel does, while also not stepping on F-zinc toes (that we saw in BoM) too much.

Point is that the powers are not designed to be combat useful, hence there is no a priori reason why F-Steel should include mental enhacements. F-Steel stores physical speed, the fact that actually using that speed in urban environments is difficult does not mean that Feruchemy should change somehow. Now, F-steel does include some measure of mental enhancements, but I think they are most likely not 1-1 (based on my prior arguments). But there is no multiplication there anyway, it does not make sense to think of it like that. There are two perspectives, Ferring's and their oponents: Ferring is sped up 2x physically, and by some measure mentally (<=2x). If the mental enhacement is equal to gained speed, then from Ferrings perspective they move as usual, and everything around them is slowed down to 50%. So no 4x advantage. From outside perspective, Ferring is moving 2x fast, again no 4x advantage. From Bleeder (and Marasi in BoM) we see that somehow they can interact with objects as if they were 'just' moving as usual, so somehow F-steel does not include increase in kinetic energy or momentum (otherwise Bleeder would be breaking doors everytime she opened them, and Marasi would break vials with metal by interacting with them, or her shoes, or really anything). So similarly to how F-Iron does not let you punch harder, neither does F-steel let you hit harder or throw objects like that (seemingly).

So per WoB, speedbubbles interfere with most forms of Investiture (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/3/#e78), so you most likely cannot push/pull on anything outside bubble (I don't think Wax ever does this, despite it being useful, though that could be due to Identity as well). So possibly emotional allomancy is a bit outlier, since it effects Cognitive aspects primarily? Seeking would probably be distorted, since the pulses would be perceived by Seeker as slowed down, if they could reach beyond the bubble. A-Electrum would probably not be affected much, since it shows you future as you would see it externally kind of? So shadows that would step outside of bubble would be frozen there I think.

But you can use F-steel even without any mental enhancements, you just have to be careful. Nothing stops you from moving. So from that perspective there is no need for mental enhancements. Ah, argument could be made for that. Yeah, but phrasing it that way is misleading, since you always store some percentage of attribute, not 'fixed' value I think. So e.g. after one day of your storing, he has enough to become ~140% as heavy for 16 hours. Or 180% as heavy for less then 8 hours and so on. Never will he be able to use it to become 10000x as heavy for more then miliseconds (if that). I don't want to jump fully on board with the idea that he pushed the nails out and the building fell apart because of how framing nails are designed and used. Unless he was blowing them through the wood entirely which I think would still suggest he had to have the weight to destroy the structure. But that is literally what he did, quote (AoL, pg. 296) (Sidenote: He also says he does not grow more dense when tapping). He never pushed on the building directly, only on the metal pieces used in construction, removing them from their position (which causes the building to fall apart), and the momentum of the metal helps push the building into hole over which it was built.. So he does not literally crush the building. Don't think so, it was wooden floor in relatively old building (since it was family mansion in capital). If he became ~2 tons heavy, that would be enough I think. So 20x increase. I am not disputing Bleeder was able to function, I am just saying that I don't think F-steel provides as much mental enhancements as 1:1, and that Bleeder being Kandra could compensate for that.

Question there is then 'how much Investiture does F-Steel siphon off for mental enhancements'? I.e. how much mental enhancements does Feruchemy "consider" sufficine', to not kill oneself? I mean, people can move at speeds on the order of 100 km/h in the city streets already (cars) without any mental enhancements. This is already 3x of maximum typical human speed. So, from pure suitability perspective, there is not that much need for mental enhancements? Or, they can be ~1/3 of the tapping rate relatively safely. I think the semi-simultaneous shot Bleeder does + her movements are more then ~80mph, and at very least on order of ~100 m/s. She shot what, 4-5 times quickly enough that it sounded like one shot? The repositioning would be at least ~10 meters, and she did in at most 1/10 of second. She was 'pure' Steelrunner at those points (Trellium effects, and Kandra nature notwhistanding). Bendalloys behaves very inconsistently It is said to compress typically by 10-15x fold, however that is not sufficient to see bullets move (unless the bullets are extremely slow), as even if the bullets would move at ~150 m/s , from bubble perspective they would still move at 10 m/s, so the conversations Wax and Wayne have in bubbles could not happen. Slowing down the explosion is even more insane, explosives wave front routinely move at ~800m/s, so for that the bubble should have slowed down time by a factor of 1600x at minimum. So...using bendalloy bubbles won't tell us much, because they do whatever Brandon needs them to do in the moment. Don't forget losses, he did not have 3.5 million lbs accessible, but far less from that one day, if he decided to tap at once. At those rates most of the attribute turns into the Investiture necessary for compression. And Wax did not crush the building' literally, he just pushed on e.g. the nails and metal elements holding it together, moving them out of place so the building fell down. Far less weight needed for that, it was like a big hammer hitting all the 'binding points' at once. That is not possible because that is not how Feruchemy works. Feruchemy only ever effects Feruchemist, and nothing external to them. (Southern Fabrials being Fabrials and not natural Feruchemy).

And it would mean that Kelsier and Ghostbloods are virtually guaranteed to be unable to replicate it as well, no matter how they try, because they will always intent to use it. I am now much more curious about Era 3 and the supposed Mistborn who Brandon planned to have there.

So, with TLM out we have learned a bit more about godmetals. They have seemingly three properties in common Spectrographically they saturate all bands + additional band different for each metal which is 'out of charts'. They are heavily Invested (since they are Investiture). They cannot undergo phase transition using purely physical means (i.e. you possibly cannot melt them into liquid Investiture just via heating them up). Interestingly other physical properties seem to differ (e.g. explosiveness of Harmonium and it being soft, Trellium being brittle, Raysium conducting Investiture etc.) What is more interesting is that they have also unique properties, which to me seem to be possibly linked to Intent of the Shard Harmonium replicated ('harmonizes') with nearby Invested effects. Trellium (Bavadium) metal of Autonomy is repulsed by Investiture of other Intent (or at least Harmony, but I assume it generalizes). Raysium conducts Investiture, which I am not sure how it relates to Odium's Intent (though Voidlight enflames emotion, so possibly relation there). Finally, both Honorblades (made of Tanavastium) and Shardblades (made of alloy of Tanavastium) are nearly unbreakable (only Nightblood having caused damage). I propose that is a natural property of the metal, since it is metal of Shard with Intent of Oaths in the sense of binding things together, so having a God Metal that is supernaturally strongly bound makes sense. So proposal is that Tavanastium (and alloys) is metal far harder and stronger (in the sense of physical property) than any other god metal.

No, because you don't use up all your strength just to move around, and that part would also be 10x. I.e. if Wax not tapping could bench press 100 kg, then tapped 10x and if tapping F-Iron proptionally increased his stregnth, he could bechn press nearly 1000 kg. Sure there would be correction for mass of arm: one arm of adult male is ~6kg, so prior to tapping Wax is raising ~112 kg, after tapping the hands weight ~60 kg each, so he could still bench press ~880 kg, even if he was 10x as strong. Which is certainly not the case, hence F-Iron must provide much less then proportional increase in strength.

Interesting thought, so the idea is basically you can split Harmonium with Trellium and then based on both your subconcious and concisous intent, following happens Intent is to use splitting to change nothing -> Lerasium is created Intent is to use splitting to change anything -> Atium is created So if you intent to actually use the splitting to achieve anything that would change current status, you will get Atium? If so, then creating Lerasium is actually quite difficult, because you basically cannot create it on purpose, because having a purpose in mind would go against Intent of Lerasium.

I don't think it is fair to assume she did not tap Zinc. Sure she did not tap as extremely as with F-steel, else she would run out, but if tapping only 20x increase combined with increase from F-Steel could bring her up to that point, while using much less Investiture. If the stacking is multiplicative and not additive, even less would be required. Ultimately we don't know, and she did tap multiple things, so treating her as baseline is misleading. Bleeder is better example, but she is also Kandra using unusual spikes, and going only for relatively low multiples. So I disagree that Marasi proves or disproves anything about mental effects of F-steel, simply because that was not the only thing she was tapping and F-Zinc provably speeds up perception and mental processes (Wax, Sazed).

Again, strength change F-Iron does not keep up with mass gain, otherwise Wax could not store to be lighter on his feet (since he would get proportionally weaker), nor can he move as easily when tapping (he cannot even fight properly when tapping a lot, more throwing himself at enemy then hitting them). At low rates the difference won't be as large sure, but it will still be there. E.g. you physically speed up 2x, but your perception speeds up only ~1.4x

Interesting theory, but I have one main counterpoint: Bleeder. She had Trellium spike, but was taken over and controlled by Harmony when additional spike was introduced. Argument could be made that Kandra behave differently. Additionally, as far as we know, outside of aluminum no Investiture effect in Cosmere is inviolable. Invested effects can be overpowered, including Shard effects (e.g. Nightblood killing Vessel). Finally, as to why Entrone was not controlled by Allomancer, Intent. If the Allomancer did not intent to control him (and they most likely did not), then they would not even if it was possible.

Yeah, and in F-Iron strength explicitly does not keep up with weight increase. Hence, mental speed in F-steel does not keep up with physical speed, which is my point.

No, it literally says that mind-altering effects are minor. If increased speed of thought is not mind-altering effect, I don't know else what it could be. And since F-steel stores Physical speed (as in movement of body), not mental speed, than the mechanism by which this mind-altering effect happens must be temporal by definition. So, he is saying that bullet time is a thing both do to some extant, which is what I said no?