therunner

Kandra are not humans and are shapeshifters. With the same spikes they can look like human, or like horse, or like dog, and adjust their strength within certain bounds. We never see them receive human spike for any effect, so they are not relevant. In addition, Kandra spikes are not just ordinary hemalurgic spikes but there is a special procedure to create them. Chimeras are hinted at to be created by splicing animal attribute on human soul. We never see anyone lessen any deformations, so I don't think we can make definitive statement it can be avoided entirely.

I disagree to some extent. Basically I think that what happens is that the stapled on spiritweb effects both physical and cognitive representation, it kinda has to. For powers like Allomancy and Feruchemy, there is no real impact, because the powers fully reside in SR. But the attributes, effects of those are primarily visible in PR and CR, we see this with Feruchemist (tap strength, and their muscles actually grow). So when you staple on attributes, you deform physically, because your soul is basically telling your body 'this is how you are supposed to look like'. This is why I think Koloss are the size they are, the strength from 4-5 people asserting itself. (if they are just 2 the size of human, their muscles would be about 4 times as strong due to size alone). I think you could limit it perhaps, but you would get deformation every time, because the deformation is the attribute having an effect.

Raboniel does not say she wants to kill Odium when first proposing anti-Light (ch 76), she mentions that Honor was killed and engages in speculation on how it could have happened. Navani on her own then extrapolates that Odium could perhaps be killed in that way, which motivates her research. Nowhere does she trust that Raboniel wants to kill Odium. The mistake she makes is thinking that they could make enough anti-Light to hurt Odium, which Raboniel points out, and not in believing that Raboniel wants to kill Odium. Though it is possible that perhaps they could make enough to harm the Vessel at least, seeing what Nightblood did. Theoretically, it could kill the Shard too, but they would have to somehow convert gigantic amount of Investiture directly in SR. She knew there is a notebook, and she did not have chance to destroy the notebook. Rhythm of War as whole was shared yes, but clearly the last notes on anti-Tone and speculation on anti-Light were not part of it, because Navani was intentionally hiding it, since, you know, the notes are described as hidden. Of course it matters! You say she should have thought more about, but she already had a lot of other things on her plate, that are a bit more important. Not to mention she did not even start direct research into anti-Light, she was focused on anti-Tones, and it is 'luck' that the first approach she proposed actually worked. And I acknowledged I was wrong. Question, how can you simultaneously blame her for not realizing that anti-Light can kill spren, but at the same time acknowledge she did not even make connection to killing Fused. Ehm, Raboniel is also commander. Saying Odium is commander is like saying 'Dalinar is commander' in reply to the fact that killing Mink would be useful. Raboniel was the one that pushed for operation to take Tower, it was her plan. She was the primary commander on the ground. And sure, Odium could send someone, but that someone cannot corrupt Sibling, which is the entire point of killing Raboniel. No, Raboniel does, and cannot share that knowledge for several days. In the meantime, the only one who knows about anti-light is Navani. I doubt that Raboniel remembers exactly the process. And again, it was a gamble to protect Sibling and Tower. Yeah, and Navani was working towards liberating the Tower. Sibling would not have to talk to Navani at all, just to Kaladin or Dabbid. After removing Raboniel, others can take initiative. No I did not. You were saying that Navani should destroy the notes after discovering anti-Light. I am saying that Navani at that point had no idea if the anti-Tone would work to create anti-Light. So of course she would not destroy the notes yet. Discovery of anti-Tone is not the same thing as discovery of anti-Light. No its not, she can still continue to do research, just only theoretical like she was for multiple days. She cannot take notes though, so she would be slowed down somewhat. Yes you did I know. But the problem is that we are discussing Navani's actions and behavior, so the fact they had reason to kill her is beside the point if she does not know that fact, which she does not. She has no reason to burn the notes yet! Anti-Tone discovery is not the same as anti-Light so using it interchangeably is a poor form at best. She did not discover anti-Light, she had theories only at the moment. And since she did not know it would kill Fused or Spren yet, she had zero reason to. She spent days focused just on making anti-Tone and researching Tones, she was only starting to focus on anti-Light itself. Even on that day she was focusing on learning to create the Tone without the plate, not on making anti-Light. That happened only after Raboniel forced her to. The fact that her first idea on how to make it worked out is both great luck and horrible luck. No its not, don't be disingenuous. You expect guard to not pay attention to her? You keep claiming how she is prime suspect and they would treat her with suspicion, but at the same time the guard is not paying enough attention to notice her hiding the notes? The guard was not distracted at any point after the explosion, the first thing they do is grab Navani and drag her in the room. I am sorry, did you miss the part about notes being hidden? If the notes are hidden, she had to have hidden them. It is not that difficult. If she hid nothing as you say, why are notes hidden? Who hid them if not Navani? She gives them to her because she knows they would be found during in-depth search, so she would only delay the inevitable. Perhaps you should read the quote again. Yeah, she improvised on that day, and did not know she would make anti-Light that day. So why do you keep blaming her for not hiding the discovery? Navani did not 'accidentally' free the Tower, it was her goal the entire time. She cooperated with Raboniel to get access to equipment and information, which she did get and was crucial for Kaladin. She cooperated on research into Light to hopefully learn how to purge Sibling of Voidlight, which she did learn and did after bonding Sibling. She was doing everything she could in her position to work towards freeing the Tower, and she succeeded. Yeah, the end was kinda lucky, but so was Kaladin swearing 4th Oath at basically last few seconds, which was almost literal divine intervention. At least what Navani did with Sibling was the direct results of actions she took until that point. You don't know nothing would change. What Navani knows, is that unless Raboniel is removed it is entirely possible they lose on that very day, because of the nodes. Every day Raboniel is there is a risk, and every day she is not is another day Tower is safe. What would you do? Wait until Raboniel corrupts the Tower? Is that your suggestion? No she did not think that, don't make stuff up. Re-read the passage where Raboniel has her make anti-Light for the first time. And Navani does not know that Odium would overrule them in that specific way, so why are you criticizing her for that? Is she supposed to just know what the enemy is planning, and the rivalry within the Fused? Why would they return her the old way, when they have no idea on what she knows? Good thing that: She did not work on it longer than necessary, and was instead learning to hum the tone. She did not leave the plate in the open, she hid it under several different ones. It was not the request for equipment that drew Raboniel's attention, it was primarily the fact that guards outside felt the effects of anti-Tone, something Navani had no way of predicting since to her the sounds are exactly the same (since they actually are the same on physical level).Why do you think she left her alone for days and came basically at first opportunity after Navani created anti-Tone? Gives her the notebook only after realizing that Raboniel will find it anyway. Notebook which at that point contains primarily information on anti-Tones, not anti-Light. So exactly as you say it was not gift for Fused. Glad you see it that way. But seriously, at least criticize her for things that actually happen in the book. No, that was not something she came up with on the spot, they theorized that earlier. You were denying it: Different Spren have different standards, and Sibling is clearly quite fearful of bonding anyone. Sibling accepted her words, so Navani is worthy then. So I don't know why you say she is not, considering the above quote suggests that 'worthiness' is simply spren accepting words. To summarize: Navani does not believe that Raboniel wants to kill Odium, because Raboniel never says that. So that criticism is invalid. She is wrong in thinking they could create enough anti-Light to kill Odium, however she lacks the knowledge to realize that (and has no way of having or obtaining that knowledge). This criticism is not valid, because it rests on something that never happened. Navani does try to hide the notes on anti-Tones and is intentionally hiding her work from guards, including hiding the plate that produces anti-Tone among several others that are useless. Criticizing her for not doing these things when she does them, is rendering that argument invalid. Navani has only several hours between making anti-Tone for the first time, and trying unproven experimental method to try and create anti-Light. She succeeded for good or ill, however to criticize her for not destroying notes on something that is not itself dangerous (anti-Tones) is disingenuous. She did not even know that anti-Tone has unpleasant effect on Fused/Voidspren, so she has no reason to think that anti-Tone alone is dangerous in any way. Once she learns any of that, it's too late. She spends vast majority of her time during occupation working towards goal of freeing the Tower, and her cooperation with Raboniel is part of those efforts (to obtain knowledge to reverse Siblings corruption). She succeeded in that, and without those efforts Tower would have fallen to Odium and Sibling would be Unmade. So yeah, she did not achieve perfect victory, but she stopped Odium from winning the war (because that is what would have happened if they took the Tower). The only thing that marres the victory is the fact that Odium's forces obtained knowledge on anti-Light. However, even if that did not happen, once Coalition would start using it to kill Fused permanently, Odium's forces would figure it out. So at worst she just hastened the inevitable.

Fair. I think people are judging her overly harshly, and frankly misremember the circumstances. And I would say she succeeded as scientist and more than proved her worth. Measure of scientist isn't 'thinking through all possible political, military and real life implications' because that simply is not possible. Job of scientist is to discover and understand the world. She did that, and she did something no one else ever did. If that is not success worthy of a scientist then nothing is. Her failures have nothing to do with science. What? She did question Raboniel! At first she cooperates solely because Raboniel is threatening her scientists, and she intentionally has her scientist (and herself) do meaningless work. She used the fact that they still had access to fabrials to supply Kaladin with crucial equipment (the glove and working gemstones) without which Kaladin would have died. Used it to prepare traps before the Pillar room, which helped in the end give her enough time to bond Sibling and save the freaking Tower. Then the research into Lights is intentionally done so she can reverse what happened to the Tower, and she did succeed in that and without the research she would not (because she would be unable to attune Rhythm of Tower). Without Raboniels knowledge, and idea that Lights can mix, she would have ever succeeded in time. Application to kill Odium was secondary to her research. Navani never believed that Raboniel would leave the Tower if she did as asked (RoW pg 767), she reasoned (logically I should add) that Raboniel knows more than she does and so she could get more out of the interaction. So yeah, Raboniel manipulated Navani and got anti-Light out of it. Navani manipulated Raboniel and got anti-Light, knowledge of merging Lights and saved the Tower. One side got more, and it ain't the Fused. Ehm no, Navani was hiding the notebook: She gave it to Raboniel simply because Raboniel would have found it. Sure it is easy, when you are not under siege, trying to figure out a way to save the centerpoint of your side (the Tower), supply the one remaining soldier (Kaladin), and protect people in your care. Navani had a lot on her plate. On top of that, it is not that easy to let go of preconceived notions, scientist or not. For us it is easy to see that hypothesis, because we have no emotional bond to any of those concepts, nor did we live with them for ~50 years. IRL it takes decades before revolutionary theories are accepted and taken for granted. She literally just discovered the Light. It's not like she had days to think about it. She does not know that Fused are made out of the same stuff as Odium, and she only sees Raboniel's reaction to the anti-Tone not even minutes before Raboniel kills her daughter. Navani had no evidence and no reason to make that conclusion. We do, she does not. Why is it stupid to kill enemy commander and the only one capable of subverting the Tower? Alright. That still leaves the point that she used it to try and kill Raboniel. Alright, so she is locked and can continue to do some minor research, and she bought Tower a few days. How is it worse than her current position? You underestimate how easy it would be. Sure they would do it eventually, but honestly, eventually they would figure it out anyway. Once they would see Fused being killed permanently someone would realize what is happening, and they would either use spies or research to get that knowledge. At most, Coalition would have a few months were they would kill Fused and they would not be able to kill spren. Sibling could communicate what happened to Kaladin, and Kaladin could come up with a plan. She would have bought them crucial advantage, it is not her fault if they would be unable to exploit it. She discovered anti-Tone in the middle of the night, and the next day Raboniel came to her, shortly after Navani just started thinking about how to use anti-Tone to create anti-Light. The sphere Raboniel made was the first anti-Light made! How could she destroy the notebook after she discovered anti-Light, when she only confirmed the discovery with Raboniel?! And the notebook only contained notes on anti-Tone and perhaps some speculation, if even that considering she was only thinking about it when Raboniel arrived. Seriously, how can you miss that? Ah, true, my memory betrayed me. Though I will point out that those plans possibly include him becoming immortal servant of Odium, with little provisions of how that will affect freaking Stormfather. That is concerningly large hole. And after quick interrogation of her and others, they would find out that accident like that happened once before and they don't know the cause. So, Navani would be perhaps under more suspicion, but there would no evidence. And she cannot control what Fused would do to her. Do you blame Kaladin for endangering Lirin, Hesina and all the Radiants in infirmary because he is fighting back? Because that is worse than Navani possibly putting herself in danger. How would she liberate Tower without knowledge of merging Lights which she got from Raboniel? And how was Navani supposed to know that? She cannot act on information she does not have. Again, those notes were not even day old. She did not have any opportunity to destroy them, until she and Raboniel created anti-Light Navani did not even know her technique with anti-Tone would work. And re-read the chapter (around pg. 1048) with anti-Light discovery, Navani has no opportunity to do anything you suggest. She cannot keep the notes hidden, Raboniel knows every room Navani has access to and would found them. She cannot burn them, or throw them behind boxes because immediately after the explosion happens guards grab her and haul her into the room. Then there are guards in the room (not good opportunity to hide anything) and after they are sent away Raboniel immediately forces her to repeat the experiment, kills her daughter and ask for notes back. She could try and pretend they were destroyed, and Raboniel would simply have her person searched and notes found. Navani never had opportunity to do anything you propose. Not one thing. Once again, yes Navani was hiding the notebook: And Raboniel can't make it until she is reborn, and recreates equipment, which can take additional days. Navani will be able to make more once she is freed. And without Raboniel they would be unable to corrupt that node, so the plan would have saved Sibling for some time. And Navani would not know that infusing it with Stormlight would not counteract Unmaking, does not mean she could not try. I'm sorry, I must have forgotten the part were Navani isn't working under threat during enemy occupation, and has teams of dozens of specialist to help her do calculations and think about the problem from multiple angles. Do you see the problem here? Not to mention she only figured out anti-Tone one day before Raboniel asked her to make anti-Light for the first time. The calculation that nuke coud ignite atmosphere were done in 1942, and idea of nuclear bomb came in 1934. So, yeah, I am willing to cut Navani some slack here, because she did not have 8 years to think about it. And Raboniel would not tell them until after being reborn, and then she would still keep protective hand over Navani. Good thing the two Fused in leadership positions there are Leswhi (who won't torture her) and Pursuer (who is focused on Kaladin and won't care about Navani). And neither did she have any way of hiding the discovery at all because it all happened so fast. It wasn't lack of trying, simply lack of opportunity. But she did not ' give it ' to Fused! She discovered anti-Tone, and couple of hours later (during which she mostly slept) Raboniel asked her to try and make anti-Light using that process. Do you see any arti-fabrians assess risks or predict consequences? I mean, the levitation glove was originally quite horribly designed and it was Navani suggestion that made it practical. She discovered something no one in ~7000 years did, that is monumental scientific success. Militarily, her enemy getting access to that knowledge is failure yes, but that has nothing to do with science. It was the best plan she could make under the circumstances, better than doing nothing. You cannot bully spren into bond. And you cannot swear Oaths unless you truly understand them. By end of RoW Navani was demonstrating leadership and uniting skills for decades. She ran kingdom when Gavilar neglected it, she was connecting scientists so they could work together and reach conclusions they never could on their own. By end of WoR Dalinar was a former bloodthirsty warlord, former drunk, and failed at uniting high princes. Note: I like Dalinar, he is probably my favourite character in SA, but man, he does not have too many successes under his belt when he becomes Radiant. Good thing it is not true then. She did not bypass anything. She swore an Oath and it was accepted. Not true, Raboniel has more knowledge than Navani does, so it makes sense for Navani to try and mine her for that information (and she gets information on making of original Fabrials, Tones of Roshar, mixing of Light, Light reacting to Tones and Rhythms), while stonewalling her own side (which she does). Additionally, accepting the deal grants her access to fabrials, which she can (and does) use to help resistance (Kaladin). And you assume that Raboniel would take no for an answer, which is stupid I think. No you completly misreprensent her reasoning. The deal was about Navani working for Raboniel on fabrial design. She accepted because she notes that Raboniel would learn their functioning anyway, simply by interogatting her scholars and experimenting with existing pieces (which is true). In that scenario Raboniel would get what she wants (from the deal as stated) anyway, and Navani would have nothing. Accepting the deal, Navani can stonewall by having her scholars do busy work (which she does), and at the same time learn from Rabonial and maintain access to tools and equipment. Later on, she accepts research into Lights because that is the only way she can learn anything that could help save Tower. And notably it does. Had she refused, she would not have knowledge of Rhythms or their merging, would not be in position to bond Sibling, and could not purge Tower and get it fully functional. As a result, even if Kaladin swore 4th Ideal, Tower would be impossible to hold, because Kaladin is still just one person and has to sleep. Unmade Sibling could simply close him off in some room and have him starve. Navani bonding Sibling was key to Coalition winning in RoW, and it would not be possible without her working with Raboniel. And regarding anti-Light, I will add that death of Fused hurts Odium's forces more than death of Spren hurts Coalition, because no more Fused are being created, but spren are procreating. So over time, anti-Light is an advantage for Coalition, even when both sides have the knowledge.

We don't know if that WoB still holds, later on he simply says that Mistborn could burn pieces of Shardblade with no caveats, so there is conflicting information. And even then, the WoB says that you need valid Connection to the Shard to burn their Godmetal, not just Tanavastium. So even if it holds, it is not argument against my theory.

Yes, and I am saying that I think there is just a single ability 'Burn Godmetal'. Not burn Lerasium, burn Lerasium + Atium etc. Spiritwebs won't suddenly grow new part when new Godmetal (like Harmonium) emerges, that makes no sense. So the only way anyone can burn any Godmetal works is if 'Burn Godmetal' is single ability that does not care about what specific metal or alloy it is.

Ah, good point on Wayne in TLM forgot that it specifically mentions 'an instant'. Welp, in that case A-Pewter+A-Duralumin is even surer bet. This is kinda odd though, because if it is instantaneous, and since metals have set burn-rate (including Duralumin), then you should not have to burn more Duralumin to burn more metal.

I think A-Pewter would be better, simply because it also strengtehs the body. F-Pewter grants strength, but your bones would still shatter trying to get through the door. Note on A-Duralumin, I don't think it burns everything in an instant, i.e. I don't think you could swallow 10 kg of metal and burn it all at once with A-Duralumin. Reasoning is that A-Duralumin, A-Nicrosil, A-Chromium and A-Aluminum are all in the same quadrant and have broadly similar effect. But we know that A-Chromium (and by extension A-Aluminum) is not actually instantaneous wiping of reserves, it's just that the amount of metal in Allomancer is typically so small they don't really notice it takes some time. So I think A-Duralumin and A-Nicrosil will have similar limitation, and there is maximum burn rate that is achievable even with these metals. After all, if A-Chromium takes a while to burn piercing and rings, what sense does it make that A-Duralumin could burn out kg's of metal in less than a second?

Why? There is no evidence that some powers require larger piece of Investiture than others. Spiritwebs are from Spiritual Realm, and there is no time or space there, so in a sense everything is the same size. You can fit entire soul in spike or gem, you can fit entire Allomancy in one spike, you can fit single Allomantic power in one spike. Why would you not be able to fit 'burn Godmetal' in one spike? And does not have to be 'Burn ... ', the power can be simply 'Ability to burn Solid Investiture'.

The first point I grant you, that was naive. The rest no. She had no idea it would be harmful to her side, and Raboniel had little idea Navani's discovery would be actually useful. No one ever made anti-Light! Some experienced Cosmere scholars even doubted it was possible! Why should Navani know more than they? You expect unrealistic things. And she did manage to hold some secrets from Raboniel (explosive nature of interaction, hiding her notes for weeks), so she was not naive in that way. She kept fewer than she wanted, because her enemy had more tools at her disposal. If the explosion was as large as the first one (the only example she had on hand), the plate and gem would be destroyed. Possible extrapolation true. Of course if you don't know that gods are made out of same stuff (Investiture), then it is a bit greater stretch. I do think she would have realized it eventually, but at the time she was tunnel focused on the fact it could kill Fused, and could help them in their situation. Remember that if Coalition looses Tower, the war is basically over. So protecting the Tower is the biggest priority, and everything else is secondary. She needed her to verify anti-Tone has effect on Fused. (and to test making of Warlight later on) And she explicitly lured her in by feigning need for her to try and kill her. And Navani did not know for sure Gavilar's sphere held anti-Voidlight, she assumed it but until the explosion she could not be really sure. Why would Fused and Regals punish her? Rabonial has been established as a bit of a maverick by Fused standards and more feared than liked, and there is precedent for such accidental explosions. So no, Navani would not be punished. Raboniel would return soonest during next Everstorm yes, which still grants them 9 days at minimum without her. 9 more days where Sibling cannot be further corrupted. And it would be possibly longer, depending on where the willing Singer would be. And while enemy would have knowledge on the fact that anti-Light and Light can make a weapon, they would not have notes or plates because those would be destroyed in explosion or hidden again by Navani, as afterwards no one (outside of Navani) would know of their importance. I explained the benefits of killing Raboniel already, feel free to re-read them. Please read the sentence immediately after the one you highlighted Without those notes, there would be no anti-Light. If you ever tried to research something, you know you won't be able to make progress without making notes. Then they would try something else. Do you raise same criticism to Kaladin when he was defending the nodes (as they would also only buy few days). Or Dalinar when he made the deal with Odium? Peace for 10 days and then what? It would be 9 days during which Kaladin could get a small break to gather strength, and equipment. 9 days to signal someone. 9 days for Dalinar to notice and send help. Guaranteed 9 days where Sibling would not be further corrupted, and during which he could be convinced to bond someone which they thought could help. During siege every single day counts. Sure they would interrogate her. And she would simply tell them she has no idea what exactly happened (kinda true) and that they had similar accident few weeks earlier, fact confirmed by independant interrogations. Fused and Regals would have no way of knowing what happened there. If they did refuse her to continue her experiments, she could still continue theoretical work. Why would Pursuer or Moash kill her at that point? Pursuer does not care about her at all, he is fixated on Kaladin. Moash was also fixated on breaking Kaladin. He could have killed her at any point during occupation, but he did not care until after Kaladin was taken care of. So they would have no reason, yet. Why does that matter? Those notes probably don't contain sentence 'this will blow up when mixed', or any hint that it is a possibility. Raboniel red them, and if that was in there, she would not try what she did. Yes a great plan, considering the situation she was working in. So which is it? Navani is stupid because she handed over her notes to Raboniel, or that she took them back? Because if her plan works, knowledge stays with Navani and no one else. She was successfully hiding the notebook for days or weeks, she could keep hiding it for few more days. She can make more, she is the one who figured out how to make the plates. And she can continue her theoretical work, which is what got her so far. And loosing the ability to make it for a while, but giving Kaladin and Sibling several days of peace to plan is a worthwhile trade. End game for Navani isn't 'make anti-Light and use it to fight', it's 'protect Sibling', because if Sibling is Unmade they are screwed. Her plan was working towards that goal, and she got relatively close. No that is obviously dumb thing to think would happen. But Coalition gets more time. Sibling gets more time. And during that time, things can happen, like Coalition noticing the issue with Tower (and they were already suspicious by then) and sends help. Or they find the rest of nodes and figure out a way to seal them off or better protect them. Or how to infuse them with Stormlight to at least partially counteract the Unaming in progress. There is a lot that could happen. Yes she had plan (buy time to protect Sibling), and yes she did. She did not think all the consequences of her discovery, but frankly no one ever does. See Oppenheimer and Manhatten project, they detonated first nuke not being fully sure (just pretty sure) it would not destroy the planet. That is faar riskier than what Navani did. Yes there was favorable outcome, killing Raboniel protects Sibling for a time and gives them space to figure out better tactics. It is not so difficult. Don't straw man her actions. She made the discovery to try and figure out a way to destroy Odium. She used that discovery to try and kill Raboniel. She let Raboniel read her notes to lure her in her trap, but she took the knowledge back immediately. If the plan work, enemy would not have knowledge at all. Why would they immediately torture her? They know she cooperated with Raboniel, they would learn quickly there similar accident happened earlier and Coalition does not know why the accident happened. They have no reason to torture her or suspect Navani or suspect that the explosion was caused by such a monumental discovery. Not sure why you are highlighting that. That is clearly her inferiority complex talking. Do we take Kaladins thoughts about how he is useless and should kill himself seriously? No we don't, because we understand it is not true. And the above is not true about Navani. She is scholar, probably among the best in Cosmere. She understands a lot about her work, but not all because she is not perfect (and she was working under non-ideal conditions). Frankly I don't mind that people criticize Navani, she is not perfect. But I don't like how people ignore her intentions and plans to make her look dumb, and don't give her any credit for her successes or benefit of doubt that perhaps she had a plan (which she often does and it is actually said in the book!). Ending hot take: Navani at the end of RoW is more worthy of being Bondsmith than Dalinar was at the end of WoR.

Fair enough, I am not exactly 100% confident in it either. We'll see eventually. What do you mean?

Then perhaps the spike would not result in doubled ability, this being simple 'toggle' on soul. Feruchemy also does not get much from spikes, and yet it can be stolen. So not every ability is nicely additive like allomancy. Edit: Or the person simply gets more efficient, i.e. they get the same effect with less Godmetal. I.e. person with spike would need ~1/2 the Lerasium to become Mistborn of given strength compared to someone without spike. Similarly how Radiants get more efficient with usage of Stormlight.

It is not naivitae, it is simply that Raboniel is the first person in her life that validates her as scientist and she can take it seriously. Sure, Navani's subordinates were asking her for input, but that was something Navani was able to dismiss because of the difference in station. But with Raboniel, Navani (or her inferiority complex more like it) has no way to dismiss it, because Raboniel has no reason to butter her up. So of course she will try to do something. Combine it with the fact that they had no idea when help would be coming and they have to figure out a way to defend Sibling, of course she would try something. And she did not even trust Raboniel that much, she kept lying to her as much as she could get away with, she used pretense of experimentation on fabrials to rig up traps and weapons (which she actually succefully used against Fused and Raboniel, and without them she would die). We the readers have the perspective that spren and Fused are basically the same thing, pieces of sentient Investiture. Navani has no idea about any of that, she does not know about Shards, Cognitive Shadows, nothing. To her, spren are pieces of divinity, and yes they can be manipulated via emotions/actions and certain sounds. And Fused are 'souls' of ancient Singers possessing living ones. That sounds quite different. But to jump from that information to "Fused are basically spren, hence what kills Fused kills spren" is not so obvious. It is obvious to us because we know a lot more than Navani. That is not at all what happens. She needed Raboniel to verify if anti-Voidlight could be created in the first place, and then Navani manipulated Raboniel to try and mix anti-Voidlight with Voidlight in an attempt to kill Raboniel. How can you call that naive? She literally used Raboniel to verify her theory, and then tried to kill her (temporarily at least). If she succeeded Raboniel would be removed from Tower for a while, stopping Siblings corruption Navani would be freed from her oversight and could work out how to weaponize anti-Light without risk of being discovered. (and to cover her tracks like you suggest) Navani's notes would be destroyed in the explosion, so Raboniel would not get the information on how to make anti-Light Navani took a gamble and sadly it did not pay off, but she was not naive at all and did the things for her reasons not Raboniel's. She lured in Raboniel with honesty, and then used knowledge she kept from her to try and assassinate her.

And do you have a source for that? Because as far as I know, we don't have any information that says that. The only WoB I can find is this one Which does not say that it is because of nature of godmetals, only that non-allomancers can burn only godmetals. Since we know that ability to burn regular metals is part of spiritweb, it seems reasonable to me to assume that ability to burn godmetals is natural part of everyone's spiritwebs. After all, Invested Art typically take advantage of pre-existing underlying mechanisms.

That is saying the same thing, just differently. Any person when ingesting Godmetal can burn it, hence they have innate ability to do so.

Well yeah, but every person does have ingrained ability to burn Godmetals. So for some reason Unkeyed Investiture cannot be used as substitute there. Could be? Honestly my thoughts on this are not very clear, but this does sound similar to what I meant, i.e. there is something inherent to the Keyed Investiture which is used when using it (or its alloys). And this something cannot be emulated by Unkeyed Investiture. I'll try to summarize my thought and compare/contrast regular allomancy, compounding and powering by Investiture directly: In Allomancy I would say it is that usual effect is: Burn metal This lets you draw on Kinetic Investiture from SR This Investiture is shaped into effect based on metal+spiritweb configuration of powers? (the 'nozzle') This applies to regular metals, for Godmetals (and alloys) I would say that 2nd and 3rd steps are changed, the Investiture is provided directly from the metal, and more importantly, so is the effect of the Investiture. In compounding I would guess it is as follows Burn Metalmind with proper Intent This lets you draw on Kinetic Investiture from SR (same as regular allomancy) This Investiture is shaped into effect based on metal+Investiture. So in this way Compounding acts a bit like burning Godmetals, but only in that effect is shaped by metal, not by inherent power. When fueling by Kinetic Investiture, you would be omitting first step, and using directly Kinetic Investiture in PR. Shaping of the Investiture into effect would be still happening along what is encoded in spiritweb, providing the nozzle. If it works broadly along those lines, then Godmetal (and alloys) effects would not be replicable (since you cannot natively shape Investiture in that way), and nor would be Compounding (for the same reason). Though what I write above is basically wild-mass guess On that I agree up to a point, but I think it would require you to be able to manipulate many aspects of Realmatics mechanically, or have access to Invested Art. E.g. I think Elantrian could plausibly replicate something like that, and so could Unchained Bondsmith (possibly working in concert with Sja-Anat or someone who can touch spiritweb more directly). Without those ways of manipulating Realmatics, I don't think you could use it. And it is possible that even with it, I think a lot of effects will be next to impossible to replicate (e.g. if it was possible 'easily' it raises questions like, why are not all Elantrians also Mistborn?) Well, Feruchemy does not exactly use Investiture to power itself, not even in Compounding. Technically, burning Metalmind provides you with a lot of particular attribute, which then you can store as usual with Feruchemy. The Investiture comes in only in the Allomancy part of Compounding, not the Feruchemy part, which works still the same (just suddenly you have a lot more attribute to store than usual). So for that, I think if Unkeyed Investiture is to be used in Feruchemy it either has to be in solid form, or it has to be stored in Metalmind to allow it to be tapped.

I think that Unkeyed Dor won't be able to power any effects that result from Godmetals. After all, that would imply that any Misting could use Unkeyed Dor as alloy of their metal + Lerasium to increase their strength, which is rather odd. Or even worse, anyone could burn Unkeyed Dor as Lerasium to turn into Mistborn, EDIT: since anyone can burn any Godmetal (possibly conditional on having Connection to the Shard in question) So based on that, I think Unkeyed Dor can be used solely to replicate non-Godmetal uses of given Invested Art, because Godmetal effects are powered by the Keyed Investiture of the Godmetal, which I think would not be replicable. Though how Unkeyed Dor interacts with Feruchemy is anyone's guess. I would say it does not actually do anything, since Feruchemist must 'tap' something, so perhaps it would have to be turned into unkeyed Godmetal?

Skybreakers under Nale are not a good sample, as per WoBs they are kinda straying, and they are clearly reverent of Nale to unhealthy degree. Nale himself is insane and cannot be a good guide for other Skybreakers. What note do we have that most Radiants plateaued at 3rd Ideal? I do not recall such, that however means little. I would say that 1st Oath and 2nd Oath are somewhat easier, being relatively self-selecting (i.e. 1st to commit to improving oneself towards some Ideal, 2nd to basically pick which path to follow). Then even if only ~10% reach the next stage for each additional Oath, higher Oath will be increasingly rare. I agree that this is a valid viewpoint and Kaladin even worries that in a sense it might be true (that others are ready but holding back). However, in this case Kaladin is sort of 'paving the path' he is the first Windrunner in millenia, has no guidance and clinical depression on top of that. Despite that he is on 4th Oath in little over 2 years. He kind struggled with 3rd Oath, but from what we see that did not go over to his squires. Some had more difficulty than he did (Lopen , Teft especially), others had (seemingly) rather easy time (Huio), but no indication that they believed this to be difficult because of Kaladin. For 4th Oath, we don't yet have other books, but Teft does not seem to struggle with the ideas behind the 4th Ideal at all, nor does he ever really think about how difficult it would be. Exactly! We are talking about people and their growth/readiness. How could some Oaths be generally more difficult if we are talking about mindset, one you are even guided towards? Some mindsets are surely alien, however 'I can't save everyone/I accept I will fail' are not particularly rare mindsets. Why would it be inherently more difficult to accept you cannot save everyone than to accept you must also save those you don't want? If anything, 3rd oath to me is the one that sounds more difficult. I would say this is flawed analogy. Oaths follow one another, someone who would be ready to 'Be law', could be stopped by lower Ideal (e.g. swearing to follow someone/some external thing) and never get there. 5-star chef does not have to follow preset trajectory. Two points 1) Radiants are self-selecting. They won't 'pass on it' because every single Radiant chose it. You won't be Windrunner unless you want to protect people. Windrunner would not choose to become Skybreaker, but that means very little. Also, some people here seem to view Oaths as very inflexible, e.g. Windrunner could not attack if there is even a chance innocent would get hurt, which is clearly not the case. 2) Once you are truly ready to swear some Oath (e.g. your mindset is aligned with it) then how could you not want it? Since it is something you believe in. Sure sometimes you can know it is true and right, and not want to accept it (e.g. Kaladin), but how common are such extreme trauma? I severely disagree here. Sometimes they are substitutive, e.g. in Skybreakers. 3rd Ideal overrides the 2nd (they now follow some specific code/person instead of seeking justice). And we know that 5th Ideal will override the 3rd in turn. Sometimes they are completely independent, like with Truths of Lightweavers. No Oaths to hold there, only knowing oneself. Sometimes they are cumulative, but they are not independent, like with Windrunners. There 3rd Oath builds upon the 2nd (dedicating yourself to protecting without exception due to personal feelings/blindspots). 4th does not ask you to protect less, but to accept that you are not all powerful and you will fail. Not building on 3rd Ideal, but not exactly conflicting with it either. So not much juggling necessary. Edgedancers also don't have conflicts that would make maintaining them at the same time difficult. 2nd Ideal: Remember the forgotten. 3rd Ideal: Listen to the ignored.Again, building on top of one another. First you notice/remember those are forgotten, then you listen to those no one is listening to. No juggling to be had. So I don't think juggling metaphor is suitable, Ideals are related and sometimes override one another. It is however true that based on Skybreakers and Windrunners, 4th Ideal is the one were Oaths stop directly building on the previous one.

Well, it is difficult to say because we have basically no information whatsoever about spiritual quadrant of Feruchemy. But both Connection and Identity are Involved in making of Medallion, and somehow Medallions have measure of 'self-awareness', enough that they can provide Intent so they can be tapped when sleeping. Combined with the fact that 'Excisor' is involved in the making of Medallion, I think Feruchemist/Ferring gives up at least portion of their power (weakening themselves permanently, unless with access to Compounded Gold) which is then sealed in Medallion. Medallion then forms Connection with user and sort of becomes part of their soul, kinda like lesser Spren I guess? On Compounding Nicrosil, we still don't know what that does at all, and Nicrosil Compounder is vanishingly rare, and all they could store is ability to use Nicrosil and nothing else, so they would not be able to crank out Medallions.

He probably cannot. It seems that Odium (and Shards in general) must have some link to a being to have dominion over them. E.g. Odium cannot just waltz to Kaladin's mind, he can only send him nightmares (possibly through Connection with Moash). The only person Odium interacts with directly outside of his forces is Dalinar and Stormfather (if I recall right), which can be because they hold remnant of Honor, and Honor had bound Odium to Rosharan system. It is possible that however Honor bound Odium, also prohibits him from acting directly against Radiant forces. Alternatively, it could be the original agreement between Vessels after Shattering. (There is also Odium interacting with Hoid, but Hoid is Hoid and sought Odium out, not the other way around).

Good theory! Broadly I would agree, leaning into the direction that Rosharan life was modeled after Fain, and not directly descended from Fain. If I am not entirely wrong, I think Fain life is hinted to not be of Adonalsium, so it would make sense he would model then in 'laboratory' and see what happens. After all, Adonalsium made Rosharan system for particular purpose according to WoBs.

Because the way you wrote it, it sounded like inevitable effect of uniting Shards, which it is not. Additionally, there is no evidence that he required both Shards under his control to do it, only volition from his end. And since Allomancy is only Preservation's Invested Art, it makes little sense that Ruin would have any control over how it is accessed. It is possible he simply altered it because he did not like it, using only Preservation, and Leras did not because he was Too far gone mentally to do really much of anything for that millenium Allomancers existed in large numbers. Too subsumed by Shard's intent to be willing to actually change something.

Snapping did not become easier because Ruin and Preservation were united, but because Sazed chose to alter it to make it easier Open question is if there are side-effects to this lowered thershold or not.

It does, just see the result of the explosion in RoW. Stuff is burned, hence heat was released, hence em radiation was released. And how will quickly will they manage to replicate it? They have some notes from Raboniel, but Raboniel herself died. Other Fused don't seem to be quite as scientifically minded. You don't need to be particularly accurate when firing a nuke at a village. Not to mention, you can do other things than catapult, that was just a random example. You could e.g. send a horse ride into the village, sneak it there, etc. Point is, you cannot really defend yourself against this, not without massive resources. So the life won't go on as usual as you claimed. You don't sleep? Also, driving you away is the better outcome, keep the infrastructure but rebels are gone. Most people won't rebel, most won't even build the nukes (like in real world most people don't build chemical weapons). You won't live alone, because you would not survive. Hence you need to strike limited amount of targets. The resource disparity, warlord has far more than you.

And I am saying that had he had a minute more, he would have sworn the Ideal. And that with being so close he would no longer require healing. He was not ready for most of RoW, but he was clearly making his way there, even before facing Moash. Facing Moash was the final push that got him to the point that had he known the Words (or had slightly more time) he could have sworn the Ideal. And he did summon her as Shardblade, or as close as possible, he used her to stop Honorblade. How would that happen otherwise? Again, Kaladin was unable to do even that, so in that moment Teft was closer to 4th Ideal than Kaladin ever was up until his suicide attempt, and he clearly did not struggle with it. I am not saying it is easy, just that it is not as difficult as you are trying to portrait it. Note that Radiants are publicly a thing for ~2 years only, and they already have 2 people on 4th Oath. I mean, Raboniel is impressed with how quickly they are progressing in Oaths despite having no guidance! Because they don't know what the Ideal is supposed to be? You need Intent, and you need to know the words. Also, Kaladin was the longest on 3rd Oath by several months, there are what ~50 3rd Oath Windrunners, including him and Teft? With many of them being on that Oath for possibly as little as few weeks (we see the one get Shardblade in the first few chapters). And they don't know what the next Ideal is, they are working blind. Only 4 Windrunners had been at 3rd Ideal about as long as Kaladin, those being Teft, Drehy and Skar. So we can say that after being on 3rd Oath for roughly a year, about 50% were ready for 4th Ideal. Now, that is most likely biased sample, however it still shows it is more common then you present it as. Again, Teft shows no hangups Kaladin does, regarding acceptance of failure. The few he has, he lets go off rather quickly. That is what suggests that Kaladin is the outlier, not the rule. Kaladin swore all his Ideals in high pressure situations (2nd Ideal, facing horde of Listeners; 3rd Ideal, after being nearly killed by Moash protecting Elhokar; 4th Ideal, suicide attempt), but that does not mean that all Windrunners need such motivation to get to that point (Lopen being great counterexample). I never said that, no need to straw man my argument. I am just pointing out that there is no evidence of higher Oaths being inherently more difficult to swear.