AquaRegia

Perhaps the OP was envisioning a TRUE vacuum: a universe completely empty of matter. In that case, with no mass to produce spacetime curvature, there truly would be no gravity. Of course, there would also be no inhabitants to experience this lack of gravity.

My wife and I were talking about this the other day and she pointed out something which, to her, apparently, was obvious. Assume that Gavilar was Invested enough when he died that he's now a Cognitive Shadow; this is not really any kind of stretch. Odium now has TREMENDOUS leverage over him. "Yes, you'd like to return to the Physical Realm, wouldn't you? I can help make that happen... if you agree to act as my Champion. You'll have power, like the Heralds and Radiants of old. You'll lead an army the likes of which the Cosmere has never seen. You will create an everlasting Empire that will span the stars. You will be immortal, and every living being on every world will know and fear you. Your first task? Kill your brother. The man who swore to protect you, but who was too drunk to help you on the day the Assassin came. He was a simple, useful tool in his younger days... but now he's gone wrong, betrayed you. He sent your son on a doomed mission to his death. He gave up the Crown of Alethkar and refused my offer of partnership. He is leading the humans in a futile war that will destroy them AND the singers. But together, WE will unite them... once Dalinar is removed." Odium-as-Rayse could convincingly promise to give Gavilar literally everything he's ever wanted - power, legacy, immortality. TOdium's approach may look somewhat different, but the end result might easily be the same.

A crazy thought occurred to me: Kaladin's father Lirin travelled to Kharbranth as a young man, and little has been revealed about the family of his mother Hesina. Is it possible Hesina is either herself Kharbranthian, or the child of one? If so, Kaladin would be included in the "two generations" (iirc) specified in the agreement, and Todium is prevented from harming Kaladin without breaking his oath and exposing himself to Shardic retribution. Just a wild hypothesis... but I won't be surprised if SOMEONE very important turns out to be protected from Todium by the Kharbranth clause.

Slowly rereading RoW and came across this account of Taravangian's take on his agreement with Odium (Interlude-6, pp 572/3): I think two things are made abundantly clear from this passage. 1) Taravangian certainly views his action here - ordering the Veden betrayal against Dalinar - as the fulfillment of his promise to Odium. He knows that since he has now upheld his end of the bargain, the safety of Kharbranth is ensured. 2) He's already planning to throw a monkey wrench into Odium's plans (in the form of a certain heavily Invested Awakened sentient object)... but he sees that as COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the Kharbranth deal which has now been completed. "He needed to keep his agreement," and he did so. The terms of the deal have not been violated by either party and should still be in effect; I don't see any reason why Taravangian's Ascension would change that. Kharbranth is indeed still safe, and I fully expect that this will tie Todium's hands in some important way in Book 5. Maybe someone very important will turn out to have recent Kharbranthian ancestry...? Presumably, he could choose to break his agreement (with himself), but doing so will somehow make him vulnerable to dangers he's otherwise safe from.

A fair question, and Maya's ultimate answer might support your implication that she WON'T want a new bond. However, I think it's also reasonable that the answer may include 1) The expected "benefit" of the Recreance - somehow "saving" Roshar from the dangers of Surgebinding - did not last. The danger is rising again, and new solutions are needed. 2) The cost of breaking the bond - the Deadeye state - was both unexpected and horrible. 3) Her gradually increasing ability to listen, act, and speak is evidence that she already shares some kind of bond with Adolin, beyond that of a "normal" bonded Shardblade. I think it's entirely possible that Adolin's relationship with Maya will eventually pave the way for ALL Deadeyes to be restored.

Agreed. I think a significant number of us, perhaps a majority, feel that it's unlikely Adolin becomes a Radiant. My main reason for thinking so is purely narrative: there are already too many Kholin Radiants, and the story NEEDS at least a few non-Radiant major viewpoint characters. I also agree Maya and Adolin will break new ground (and are already breaking new ground, e.g., less than ten heartbeats) in the sense that the "rules everyone knows" about 1) how Shardblades work, 2) how Radiants work, and 3) what Deadeyes can and cannot do are certainly NOT all there is to know.

I also think those statements by the Stormfather, Syl, and Pattern all refer to the attention of Odium, not Szeth, and agree it makes sense for him to be focused on those events. Rayse does have a reputation for being not so subtle or clever... but if our guesses about Gavilar are even close to being correct, I think we're going to find that he did indeed have an excellent backup option to Dalinar. In fact, I won't be surprised to learn that Dalinar was actually the backup, Gavilar being the once-and-future first choice.

I love this theory, and I commend you on your exhaustive research. I don't have an overwhelming feeling that it's RIGHT, necessarily, but parts of it make a ton of sense: The idea that Amaram had an Honorblade in his hands - but didn't know it - is exactly the kind of delicious irony Brandon loves to lay on us. I completely agree with your assertion that PERCEPTION is critical in bonding and using any Shardblade. We've already discussed the fact that Shallan "knows" that it takes ten heartbeats to summon her Blade, so of course it does... even though we now know her Blade had to be a bonded spren, Pattern or Testament, every single time. I have no doubt we will see more "bending" of the rules, simply because the rules we and the characters know have never REALLY been the true rules. I also have little doubt we'll learn more about Helaran's mysterious and largely unexplained appearance in that battle. Well done!

I wish we could make a bet. One of us will just have to settle for a nice big "I told you so" in 2023. ;-)

This is a good point. However, as a Shard, Odium knows all about the nature of physical death, Investiture, and Cognitive Shadows. It's certainly possible that Gavilar "dying" was part of Odium's plan all along. Ulim is a tool, and an unreliable one - if I was Rayse I certainly wouldn't trust him with all the details of the plan, I'd simply manipulate/coerce him into doing what I want. Not convinced of the logic here: even if we stipulate TOdium knows something Rayse didn't, that doesn't mean EVERYTHING he knows and does will be different. It could be something completely unrelated to the Gavilar plan. We do know that Rayse-Odium was watching Dalinar very closely for most of his life. Odium knew about everything he ever did, and, through Nergaoul, had a hand in shaping many of the events of his life. Is it unreasonable to think his brother, the king, was also under similar surveillance and influence?

What makes you assume Rayse didn't consider it? I'll bet money that Dalinar was his SECOND choice, after his first choice got himself "killed". How do you think Gavilar not only knows about but actually POSSESSES both Voidlight and Anti-stormlight years before anyone else? Odium was definitely grooming him. From what we know about Gavilar, he was obsessed with ruling as much of Roshar as he could, with his legacy, and with immortality. Odium can offer him all of these, and more. "Out of the blue" implies that Gavilar's return hasn't been foreshadowed... as if being the central figure in every single prologue - and the single most important influence on Dalinar, Navani, Jasnah, Elhokar, Venli, and many other people - is all simply to be ignored. I'll agree Brandon is guilty of bad writing if Gavilar DOESN'T show up in book 5. From what I can tell, nobody has yet asked point blank about Gavilar's status. But every time someone asks about what Gavilar was up to, the answer is along the lines of "you'll learn a lot more soon." A few examples:

1) We did this already: 2) I don't understand how anyone who has read the first 4 books can predict anyone other than Gavilar as Odium's Champion.

There have been several threads about this already, including a poll: My opinion is that if you somehow still think Gavilar isn't the obvious Champion for Odium, you are not paying attention.

My browser recommended an interesting article today which I thought might help in this discussion: https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/06/gender-neutral-pronouns-arent-new/619092/?utm_source=pocket-newtab Of particular note: "Likely the oldest gender-neutral pronoun in the English language is the singular they, which was, for centuries, a common way to identify a person whose gender was indefinite. For a time in the 1600s, medical texts even referred to individuals who did not accord with binary gender standards as they/them. The pronoun’s fortunes were reversed only in the 18th century, when the notion that the singular they was grammatically incorrect came into vogue among linguists."

Are you saying that El is an Avatar of Odium, so that Trell is really just Odium? Or are you saying El is some other Shard, yet is somehow subordinate to Odium on Roshar? Either way, El being a Shard doesn't make too much sense given what we already know about both El specifically and Shards in general.

I agree that it's extremely likely the elders of the Shin have fallen under the influence of an Unmade. Also, I agree with @ScadrianTank on this point: Szeth is very clearly speaking about the fact that Taravangian somehow knew Neturo was dead. He's OBSESSING about it, as demonstrated by all the other quotes. Dalinar, who has no knowledge of that conversation, misinterprets Szeth's mutterings to be about Ishar.

Rusts. Now I'm imagining Moash with Steelsight, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy and Allomancy. Thanks a lot. :-/

It's an interesting question, because obviously some characters have used the Cognitive Realm to move from one solar system to another. If their physical bodies are made of the same atoms, then those atoms have travelled WAY beyond the speed of light somehow. As a science guy, lots of things about how physical bodies exist in Shadesmar bother me. But in the end, it's all just fantasy... so MAGIC, right?

I'll assume @Celairiel is going for "lack of spoilers" rather than "red herring". Honestly, tWoK is SO chock full of worldbuilding, and there is SO MUCH weird new stuff to learn, that anyone with any curiosity should spend most of it being confused. I know I sure did.

I think it's been pretty well established that Shards can't do physical harm directly to mortals. If they could, Odium would have simply blasted Dalinar to bits a long time ago. Odium wouldn't need a Champion, or a duel, or even an army... he'd just use his own god-level power to wreck everyone he didn't like.

My goodness, this makes a lot of sense. Great idea, great research, thanks for sharing!

Thanks so much for sharing. These words of yours, in particular, struck me as extremely powerful. Only an open mind is able to say them. I have learned a lot in the past few years; I'm STILL naive and ignorant. All I can do is continue to be willing to learn. Very much agree. Look: "arguing on the internet" CAN have positive effects! "Normal" is rusting overrated. In fact, I'll go all the way and assert nobody is "normal" - we all have our kinks. I'm normal in lots of ways... and quite strange in a few others. It is mentioned that Ranette is "courting a woman", but we never get to see her. As Brandon's first try, I agree it was a bit ham-handed by his high standards... he has improved, and is committed to improving further, I think. Hugs all around - love you all!

Really neat data, @Jofwu! Is it me, or is Raboniel missing from the overall list...? Oh, now I think I see; they are word counts by POV character. Odd how some relatively unimportant characters have viewpoint chapters, while much more central (and interesting) characters, like Raboniel and Leshwi, have had none. I wonder if there is some deep truth to be inferred from that.

I love all the work you have put into this! I don't have any strong opinions about your 5 options, other than to agree that Shallan's story is messy and confusing. I think it's certain we still don't know everything... and I expect Shallan will learn more right alongside the readers in SA5. A few comments on some specific assertions: Not totally sure what you mean by these contradictory sentences, but I think Brandon's intent with the multiple "ten heartbeats" references is clear. "Ten heartbeats" was hammered into us every time anyone summons a Shardblade in the first two novels; EVERYBODY, in-world characters and readers alike, "knows" that it takes ten heartbeats. The fact that LIVING Blades DON'T need ten heartbeats is irrelevant, as no one alive (omitting spren and Heralds) had ever SEEN a living blade. Of course Shallan believes it takes ten heartbeats... and of course, as with so many other things, she's wrong. If it does take ten heartbeats for her to summon Testament, it's simply because she believes it does. Even when, in true Shallan fashion, part of her knows it DOESN'T. Brandon wants Shallan to have a way to obliquely think about her Shardblade without the image of a sword, and "ten heartbeats" is both poetic and convenient. It's also a sneaky way to tip off readers early in Shallan's story that something strange is going on. I'll also point out that during the Battle of Thaylen City, Adolin finds that he is able to summon Maya in fewer than ten heartbeats. As always, we can't count on Cosmere magic following "the rules" because we never KNOW the rules. I'd have to go back and read some old topics for arguments and evidence, but I feel confident that we've established that deadeyes summoned as Blades, when dismissed, return to their previous location in Shadesmar. A deadeye spren disappearing from Shadesmar, then reappearing an hour later, would be no surprise to anyone, and probably not even worthy of mention. We should therefore not assume it "never happened", although I agree it's likely Shallan did not summon Testament after RoW. Once she accepted her identity as a Radiant, Pattern would always be the obvious choice.

1) Testament is female, referred to as "she" in the text. 2) It is explicitly stated, near the end of Shallan's arc in RoW, that she has not one but TWO Shardblades. She absolutely IS bonded to both Pattern and Testament, and all your arguments about why it can't be so are directly contradicted by the book. 3) I think you fell into the trap of assuming that "the way we've seen it happen" is equal to "it can ONLY happen that way"; Brandon sets up these traps for us on purpose. Both readers AND in-world characters alike are are never in a position to judge "exceptions to the rule"... because we simply never know all the rules. Good memories can be closely linked to painful ones. Anyone with childhood trauma can confirm that just because bad things happened does not preclude good things happening - in fact, parents being unpredictable, kind one minute and cruel the next, is a very common pattern. The "good" gets intimately mixed with the "bad" in the child's mind, and human emotions and memories are both very messy things. I find the way Brandon has gradually unwrapped Shallan's traumatic past to be extremely interesting, thoroughly realistic, and masterfully well written. Certainly, it may not resonate with you or ring true for you; if not, be thankful you don't have the kind of personal history that would make it more relatable.