AquaRegia

Well, obviously none of us KNOW, and we'll find out eventually... but I disagree. I feel that a big part of the reason we got to see Taravangian as a mortal human for 4 novels was so that when he did Ascend, we have a Shard we know not just as a God-level Power, but also as a person. We hear accounts, mostly from Hoid, about Rayse's character as a person, but we only ever SEE him as Odium. With TOdium, we have a Vessel we know quite well. We know where he came from, a lot about his backstory, his motivations, his flaws, what makes him tick. We also know Cultivation has had her fingers in his pie, so to speak, which I think will turn out to be VERY important in future novels... and I absolutely do mean the back 5. I think he has been set up very deliberately - and very cleverly - to be a complex, nuanced, and long-running antagonist for our heroes, both present and future.

I don't see any way Helaran's Blade can be Testament. Shallan broke her Oaths to Testament, but the Bond was not broken; she has always been able to summon Testament as a Blade, as when she needed to defend herself against Tyn. I also assume Testament does not have a gemstone fabrial for bonding purposes, which means no one else except Shallan would ever be able to summon her.

That's a good point - I watched some YouTube videos of bullets being fired while NOT in a gun, and the casings generally end up either split open like a used banana peel or blown to tiny pieces. As with many other things in the Cosmere that may look fishy, it can help quite a bit to smooth it over with "magic".

We've been both told and shown that Highspren are - to use Brandon's word - "weird". I have no problem accepting that as a rule, 1) nobody (except Skybreakers) ever talks to Highspren; and 2) Skybreakers were not on speaking terms with other Radiant orders OR their spren. Even if we assume some random Skybreaker (or other Radiant) did pick up an abandoned deadeye Blade, would "the Scream" somehow EXPLAIN to them what had happened? And would that be enough to enable that one person to convince every other Radiant AND spren to abandon the ongoing plan? I don't think it's unreasonable to say "no" to that. I did not say that. But by the time we see her, Testament has had several years of a second Cryptic bonded to her Radiant, and Shallan has been renewed some truths with her. As far as we know, this has not been the case for any other deadeye. Another very important difference: the spren who participated in the Recreance did so willingly - they CHOSE. They broke the bond from their side as well... and eventually, their Radiants died. Shallan is still alive. It appears Testament was blindsided by young Shallan's oathbreaking, which, as with Syl, made Testament "only as dead as [Shallan's] oaths." What I'm saying is that there are SO MANY differences between Testament and the deadeyes of the Recreance that it's very difficult to draw inferences from one to the other. To my eye, nothing about Testament disproves any of @Jofwu's arguments. Exactly so. That's implied in the word "radical". They took an extreme action without knowing what all the results would be, and with no thought of undoing them. Seems likely they THOUGHT they understood the results... but Maya's account shows they clearly did not.

I'm sorry, I don't understand any of these objections. Do you mean "the screaming heard by a Radiant who holds a deadeye Shardblade"? Why is it a "problem"? The Recreance took place quickly (days), as BS has confirmed. Most deadeye Blades were claimed by normal humans, and the only Radiants remaining to experience the Scream would have been Skybreakers... but I don't see the issue. Testament is a unique case - a deadeye whose Radiant is both 1) still alive and 2) bonded to another Radiant spren. It is not safe to use her to draw conclusions about deadeye Blades in general. What I'm understanding @Jofwu to be saying is that since the Recreance happened so quickly, nobody had TIME to notice all the missing spren until it was all over. There was a war on; Radiants and spren were going on dangerous missions. Even in peacetime, no police department will process a missing person claim until at least 72 hours has passed... someone missing 3 days during a war would be of no note whatsoever. After weeks, they'd start piecing together what happened.

I LOLed at this. Shallan is not Adolin or Kaladin. So much of her journey has happened offscreen, before tWoK even started. She has intentionally buried so many memories, and she's so good at lying to herself (and us), that in some sense, she is discovering her own past along with us. It won't surprise me one bit to find out that some more juicy things happened while we weren't looking, because she couldn't handle knowing it at the time. They WILL be explicitly conveyed to us, in retrospect, when Shallan is ready. Not unlike Dalinar's memories being pruned by Cultivation, then growing back later... except that Shallan does it to herself. I'm sorry to drag this old topic up again, but it's one of my very favorites, and every time someone new posts questions or arguments about Shallan's Ideals, I go back and read it again! If you are scoring at home, I'm 99% sure it was Testament she used to kill Tyn, 87% sure it was Testament in the chasms with Kaladin, and 50/50 on the Oathgate at the end of WoR.

My point is that NONE of us, not in-world characters OR readers, really know what that even means. Remember how many characters say "deadeyes can't talk"? Then - what do you know? - MAYA TALKS. As a "deadeye" still bonded to her original Radiant, Testament is likely able to do things "normal" deadeye Shardblades can't, like change shapes or open Oathgates. Does Shallan's Testamentblade have a glowing gemstone affixed to the pommel? We're better off if we stop assuming (like the characters often do) that because we've seen how some of the rules work, we know ALL the rules.

On what are you basing "dead Blades aren't supposed to work"? Why assume Testament is "dead"? None of the characters understand everything about how Nahel bonds work, and they often "know" things that are wrong, so we as readers also can't yet know what is and is not possible. Many manifestations of Invested magic are limited by the Intent, Identity, or misconceptions of the user; the only reason they can't do something is because they "know" they can't do it. "Ten heartbeats" comes to mind. I strongly encourage you to read the terrifically well-researched discussion of these questions which starts here:

I think we can safely assume she reached at least 3 Truths with Testament, given that she used Testament as a Blade to do The Deed. Yes, that Bond was damaged, but not "broken"; I, and many others, think it likely that the Blade she summons during WoR is in fact Testament. Later, with Pattern, more Truths were spoken. It's especially challenging to draw general conclusions about Radiants from Shallan, as she's such an unreliable narrator.

I don't think there is any question that some of what Shallan can do (has done) is a result of her bond to Testament, while other abilities are tied to Pattern. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the whole "two bonded Radiant spren" situation plays out in KoW. Here's an earlier broad discussion around the topic:

I don't think so. I had the same reaction as @Mason Wheeler: bullets can't work that way. Both Forch and young Wax were Pushing on the slug and casing (as a single object) already; the text clearly implies that by Pushing on the primer cap, Wax "fired" the bullet, which killed Forch. The problem is that without a gun barrel to contain the expanding gas, as well as the mass of a firearm to resist the backwards momentum, what I'd expect to see is 1) most of the energy wasted pushing air outward in all directions, 2) the empty cartridge flying back toward Wax, and 3) the massive slug dropping weakly at Forch's feet. I'd also point out that if I were in a saloon and a gunfight broke out, I'd knock over a rusting table and hide behind it whether I thought it would stop bullets or not, on the principle that if they can't SEE me, it's harder for them to SHOOT me.

I agree that the broadsheet stories must be contemporary with the events of the novels they are in, and I'm also very curious about Gentleman Jak, Handerwym, Elizandra, and Nicole Sauvage. I hope we see more of them in tLM! Reading this topic reminded me about the French inspiration of Northern Scadrial character and place names. Anyone else saying "Gentleman Jacques" in their heads now? How is the name pronounced in the audiobooks?

Fair enough, but... 1) Those WOBs are all from 5-7 years ago, pre-Oathbringer. We knew much less, and Brandon may have been unwilling to answer more fully BECAUSE we knew so much less. 2) "in-world everybody would tell you no. It's never happened." I think it's telling that he chose to make that distinction. What in-world characters "know" to be true turns out to be wrong all the time. I won't be surprised if we find that what happened in the past between Singers and spren is MUCH more nuanced than a black-and-white "bond or nothing". We know that both sides felt some kind of "betrayal", which implies the breaking of a close and trusting relationship. Can we at least agree it's possible that relationship might involve Invested abilities, but not meet the threshold of "Radiance"? Also, wasn't Eshonai a Radiant (albeit briefly) before Venli?

How do you know this? Do you mean first LISTENER Radiant, or first SINGER Radiant? ("Parshendi" is a term used by modern Alethi to describe only the Listeners, distinct from the Singer species) I ask because there has been speculation that some of the Fused were bonded to Radiant spren in the past, based on the exclamation by Leshwi that "they've come back to us!"

I understand the WORDS... but this sentence simply doesn't make any storming sense. It implies that some activity exists which is better than conversing with Brandon Sanderson, and that is clearly nonsense. Did @Jofwu suffer a head injury?

According to the Coppermind, we (the readers) know, from the text, of 10 specific sets of Plate, and 19 specific Shardblades. I don't see any reason to assume their numbers are the same when we are explicitly told there are roughly twice as many Blades as Plate. I also think the fact that Blades can be lost or hidden much more easily has greatly reduced their numbers over the centuries, and I expect we will see reasons why fewer deadeye Blades were produced during the Recreance than we might have expected based only on the number of Radiants at the time.

I literally LOLd at this - thank you! I feel the same way... not impossible and would make some sense, but unlikely.

I also find this fascinating. Inconsistencies like this do seem to require explanations; however, I find myself wondering if it's possible that we are thinking about these details more deeply than even Brandon does. He is a rusting genius... but we have WAY more spare time on our hands than he does.

CONSIDERABLE speculation. I freely admit I'm still not clear on how the "deadeye in Shadesmar vs Blade in Physical" idea is supposed to work. Isn't it one or the other, but not both? In other words, an unbonded Shardblade, hidden somewhere in the Physical Realm, cannot ALSO be a deadeye wandering Shadesmar. Am I confused?

That's funny; I remember it happening pretty much every time Kaladin swears a new Ideal. Syl: "You have to say the words." Kal: "I don't know what they are." Syl: "When the time is right, you will." Kal (literally seconds from death): *says words, levels up, kicks ass* Same with Lift in Edgedancer - she suddenly realizes what to say for her next Ideal when she truly tries to do what is right according to her previous Oaths.

This is absolutely terrific. Thank you so much for doing it - I love having all these specific references collected in one place, but I'm far too lazy to do it myself. The first question I pose: these two passages seem to imply Gavilar found a way into Shadesmar. (How else could he have BROUGHT Voidlight from Braize?) But they don't explicitly say so. How would he have entered and returned from the Cognitive Realm? And if that's NOT how it happened, what other explanations might fit? Knowing what we know about Brandon's writing, everything will eventually make perfect sense... but right now, it's maddening. I'm also confused and frustrated by the "eyes in death" mystery. I agree it's got to mean something, otherwise, why include it?

Curses! Reality once again forces me to revise my opinions. Thanks for pointing that out. There are, however, multiple other ways Gavilar might have been Invested when he died. A Radiant Bond we don't know about yet, Stormlight some other way, Voidlight somehow, Biochromatic Breaths, some other offworld type of Investiture or artifact... all are plausible, and many have been hinted at in the text. Back to the OP, while I agree it's certainly possible Amaram comes back again, I also agree it's unlikely for the reasons enumerated by @Use the Falchion. It's hard to see how he could be a more capable opponent than he already was, paired with Yelig-Nar... and he lost.

How did he have Voidlight? How did he have Anti-Light? How did he travel to and from Shadesmar? How did he know about other worlds and the larger Cosmere? We already know he had formed a Bond with the Stormfather, as he was seeing Honor's visions. Thus he was a Radiant and capable of being Invested with Stormlight. All the other questions are relevant, and I'm very confident they will be answered in SA5. I'm also confident that Gavilar WILL be shown as both a "moral threat" and, if not a victim exactly, certainly someone whose lust for power will be manipulated to serve Odium.

This is a terrific argument - kudos to everyone, especially @Oltux72 for starting it off. I'm just finishing my slow careful reread of RoW, and I'm coming up on the discovery of Anti-Light, so I'll watch for hidden clues about who knew what and when. My first thoughts are mostly in agreement with @mdross81. It seems very unlikely that any Shards would simply not know about something as important as Anti-Investiture; much more likely is that Odium 1) had no way to produce it himself, and/or 2) had no reason to assume humans would be able to produce it, thus it was not really any kind of priority. As @Use the Falchion has pointed out in another topic, once Gavilar began the process of seeing Honor's visions and bonding the Stormfather, he would have become obscured from Odium's view to some extent. I don't think it unreasonable to assume that Gavilar could have acquired his Anti-Light spheres without Odium's knowledge, nor do I see this as compelling evidence refuting the possibility of Gavilar becoming Odium's Champion. Added 7/13/21: Just read RoW ch. 86 (p. 961 US hardcover) - Venli and Eshonai discuss Gavilar's Voidlight sphere: We know Ulim lies easily and frequently to Venli... but this feels like truth to me. Gavilar and the Sons of Honor may have been planning a return of the Desolations, but they were not working WITH Odium in order to do it. I think this supports my working hypothesis that Gavilar got Voidlight (and Anti-Light) without Odium's knowledge somehow. Axindweth, a known Worldhopper, likely Feruchemist, and spy, perhaps? She was in Gavilar's confidence for some reason, and although Ulim heavily implies she's also an agent of Odium, I don't think we know enough to rule her out as a double or triple agent. I have no doubt we're going to get a LOT more of Gavilar's story in KoW... both in his Prologue AND after he agrees to be Odium's Champion.

That's a great point. I have no further arguments... but I can't help feeling there are still some significant mysteries about language in the Cosmere. At some point we may just have to accept "Connection" as the answer and not worry about the details. They are FANTASY novels, right?