Trusk'our

Awesome! Welcome to the Shard friend! What books from the Cosmere have you read thus far?

Welcome to the Shard! Yes, indeed, adding Firesoul Feruchemy to a steel Compounder would be quite potent. You may want to introduce yourself on the introduction Forum to let us get to know you better

Technically, those original Mistwraiths would have died out relatively quickly unless transformed into Kandra, as Mistwraiths' natural lifespan is only about 50 years. This is possible, but I believe most if not all of Rashek's knowledge over Hemalurgy came from Ruin's whispers, not directly from Preservation's expansion of the mind. As such, the Koloss, Kandra, and Inquisitors were probably tailored suit TLR's needs, yes, but only so that they would ultimately be exploitable to Ruin's own benefit. This would make sense for Ruin, as instead of just giving Rashek the knowledge of making a fully fledged Kandra from a human, he gave a deliberately unfinished blueprint so that they would have an exploit for his influence. I think that there is an added influence to Hemalurgic constructs from Ruin specifically, as they not only have cracks in the Spiritweb, but are Connected to that Shard's Intent. Other Shards' influence would be milder, at least without additional Connection, I think. Honestly, I've wondered a ton about what specifically makes Kandra so special: they can shapeshift into almost any biological form, are nearly ageless despite not being super Invested, and they have an uncanny level of vulnerability to the Flaw despite their high intelligence. My current best guess is that Kandra have flexible Spiritwebs, maybe having a special shapeshifting "attribute" in their Spiritual Aspect. It seems less likely to be physical to me, as Kandra are likely able to mimic DNA (and while the most recent WoB on the matter says they can have children with humans, they would be a hybrid of some kind, perhaps in a similar fashion to how Allomantic and Feruchemical sDNA is transferable regardless of the Kandra's new physical DNA's structure). This "shapeshifting attribute" would mimic what Hemalurgy does to transform others, but is innately part of Mistwraiths. This might also play into why they can't replicate bones, teeth, hair, or nails as it isn't a matter of physical chemistry, but some kind of spiritual ideal they can't change. As for why Kandra are so vulnerable to the Flaw, I think it might be that their Spiritwebs, being so flexible, are also easier to mess with due to that lessened rigidity. These are all hypothetical though, so take them with a pinch of copper. I think this is fairly plausible. As long as you can find a way to breech that blockage, you're good. More likely I think they'll just find a way to manufacture Hemalurgic spikes in a cleaner fashion, but other alternatives should be possible, I believe. Very interesting ideas Dux, thanks for sharing!

Yeah, that's probably true. It would make for a cool scene, where a person is supposed to die but they cheat and come back anyway, but it's rather unlikely, I'll admit.

Possibly. Identity and the Hemalurgic Flaw do seem to have at least some overlap, so boosting Identity might help with that (though I think the main issue is has more to do with pathways being made by Hemalurgic spikes to transfer their power to the Hemalurgist's Spiritweb, which can then be hijacked by other beings). Though, I personally am rather hesitant to believe aluminum Feruchemy would be useful for this, as aluminum cannot conduct Investiture. I think a Feruchemist could blank their Identity, yes, but actually storing and later tapping that charge would probably not work, at least as I understand it. Good idea though.

Ooo, that makes me wonder, instead of relying on being able to use a Hemalurgic spike with only the resources of the Cognitive Realm, if you are mortally wounded you could maybe spike yourself into something capable of surviving, as you would get a boost to your electrum sight. Maybe something that's just really, really physically resilient. Wouldn't be human anymore, but it might work to survive. Also, I agreed: if Hemalurgy can staple a Spiritweb to a body, it can be used in some way to plug a human consciousness into a machine.

Agreed: Atium steals any power, not any attribute. I believe Brandon in the WoB I provided meant to say that Atium can copy any Inquisitor spike, anything that takes a power. Though I do maintain my stance on Hemalurgy's flexibility, so I think it's probably possible with the right expertise to fill a spike with something it may not be originally intended to hold. I suppose that's possible. Marasi is an in-world information source, and those can be wrong. And Brandon is being a bit dodgy in the WoB too, so I wouldn't discount ReLuur's Blessing being of a different metal, but personally I still err on the side of pewter being what it is made of- it just feels too direct based on how it's presented in the book, and straying from that feels less like a clever twist that Brandon is known to pull and more deliberately frustrating.

When a person dies in the Cosmere, they pop into the Cognitive Realm briefly before passing into the Beyond. If they're Invested, such as if they bore Hemalurgic spikes, they last longer. So, what if you were a Hemalurgist who died, but wanted to continue living? Could you pick up the Cognitive Aspect of one of your corpse's spikes to bind yourself to the Physical Realm? Maybe similar to how Kelsier regained his body. Or, maybe if that doesn't work, could you take the Cognitive manifestation of a non-Invested spike on your personal to spike a Spren or Shade (nearby in the Cognitive Realm) and give yourself their Investiture or Realmatic anchor to become a Cognitive Shadow? Assuming option #2 can work, what if a Shardic Vessel decided to visit the Hemalurgist as they faded, then the Hemalurgist made a snap decision and stabbed them with a spike, ripping off some power to staple onto themselves, kind of like what Taravangian did to Odium with Nightblood. I know Sazed likes to visit those on their way to the Beyond, which would make him particularly susceptible to this tactic (though admittedly banking on being able to spike a literal Shardic Vessel seems unwise in general). Most interestingly, I wonder, if a Hemalurgist died while flaring electrum (probably hoping to avoid death in the first place) if they could use the extra burst of vision (kind of like Kelsier when he died to Rashek) to forsee these possibilities to make such attempts realistically plausible- it's unlikely that they'd intuitively know any of these on their own, so having a nudge from the SR would be helpful. If they decided to spike a Vessel, they'd even get some brief protection from their future sight, making that plan more viable. These plans all count on being able to charge and use a Hemalurgic spike through its Cognitive Aspect alone though, which isn't confirmed to be possible. So there's a jury still out on that.

It's possible for any Coinshot/Lurcher to see with the lines, though this isn't widely known. So, if they're properly motivated- like a Coinshot or Lurcher who's lost their vision- they could most likely learn to see as an Inquisitor does. If the Allomancer is instead born blind, I think they would probably be more likely to learn how to accurately sense the world around them through their Allomancy, but it wouldn’t be true sight, similar to a blind Oracle or Auger.

I mean, ReLuur's Blessing is made of pewter, which steals physical Feruchemical powers. Plus, Paalm was able to create functional Trellium spikes for herself that could keep her sapient (though not fully sane) while simultaneously granting powers. As such, I think that Atium could be used as a Blessing. Though, using Ruin's pure essence as a Blessing might Connect the Kandra to that Shard more, potentially making them more vulnerable to its control or influence (unless Preservation's severing of Connection prevents that, seeing as Ruin can't even track it in Era 1). I'm not so sure about this. Atium is a wildcard, being able to steal any power with the right Intent and placement. I think that Trellium is similar in its abilities- it's been seen granting powers to Set members, though like with pewter being usable as a Blessing, it's been used to twist people into Chimera as well.

Thanks! It's nice to be appreciated as the resident piercing expert Yes, at least, those who have been seen on screen using it extensively do (like the Set). The Hemalurgy table states that a person needs a linchpin spike in order to have more than three in order to avoid potentially deadly side effects, so Dumad's existence as a wannabe Mistborn pretty much confirms this (as he is seen with Allomantic pewter, steel, duralumin, bronze, and chromium, so at least four must be from Hemalurgic spikes). I don't recall it being explicitly stated that four spikes are necessarily the new maximum. It's possible that it's higher and Dumad simply wasn't allowed more so as to not pose too serious a threat to his peers/superiors. It's still totally possible that four is the new max, it's just not 100% guaranteed right now. Possibly, though I don't see a lot of direct evidence for it yet. Personally, I think linchpins are mostly there to coordinate multiple sources of Investiture, probably like with what a natural Mistborn has inherently coded into their Spiritweb. This is also probably why you can bear multiple spikes with differing Identities and have them still function just fine, but multiple Unsealed Metalminds are a no-go: the spikes have a natural coordination ability handwritten into the system, but Unsealed Metalminds don't yet have this advancement. I have some other theories on linchpin spikes explored further on this thread. Glad to see someone else other than my own crackpot self posting some Hemalurgic theories for a bit

I know, right? The Investiture of Scadrial is by far my favorite in the Cosmere. Can't wait to see how their magi-tech evolves! Personally, I think I grew to love Era 2 more, as I was a lot more invested (pun intended) in the world by that point. Plus, all the cool little connections I could pick out that tied back to Era 1 were so neat. I really hope Era 3 is like this, only better

Welcome to the Shard! What magic system from the Cosmere is your favorite, and why?

Possibly. I always thought that an Alloy of Atium and Lerasium would do the trick. Maybe add the basic metals to the mix and you get Ferrings based on the metal type. Here's a WoB on the topic, if you're interested:

Hey, that's my favorite Cosmere world too! Mistborn was my first Cosmere book, and it's always held a special place in my Gemheart. And I especially love how the setting is evolving- can't wait for era 3! It's one of my favorite magic systems, probably tied with Feruchemy and Allomantic coming as a close second. I'm very curious as to what else can be done with it and how it will show up in later books. Parks and Rec is great. I often watch clips of the best parts on YouTube, especially of Ron- he always cracks me up Anyway, welcome to the Shard!

Revisiting this topic, I wondered, what does alloying Harmonium do to its Invested properties? Alloying Atium and Lerasium alters their effects in the Metallic Arts- Atium/electrum grants a shorter-range future sight that is more sustainable while Lerasium alloys create Mistings instead of Mistborn- so perhaps alloying Harmonium focuses how it interacts with Investiture too. For example, maybe a nicrosil/Harmonium alloy might function more as a long-term storage of Investiture as seen with Marasi's modern cubes, while something like pewter expends itself as fuel to directly power the Steelpushing in airships. This doesn't remove the possibility of using the mundane metals as components in Harmonium Fabrials, it just might lead to more possibilities.

Yeah, I suppose we haven't seen real evidence for that, which is a serious counterpoint. Specifically I was thinking of how Kaladin's Intent Connected him to Honor's Investiture more, making him a slightly stronger Surgebinder than others of his Oath. Though, that's not really the same thing. Man, I've got to slow down and proofread my posts more often Hmm, I had been working under the assumption for awhile that extra Connection to something meant you got a greater inherent understanding of whatever you were Connected to, but looking back I don't know if that's truly the case. Connection can, for example, let you understand a language- but it seems to just trick your Cognitive Aspect into overwriting your understanding of language. Less knowledge, more instinct? It's weird, but I suppose you could classify it as a non-knowledge based ability. When gleaning knowledge from the SR you're actually reading Spiritwebs (which I believe to just be Investiture given context by Connection and Identity), so Fortune- a method of seeing into the SR- is what would probably be used to get the knowledge necessary to understand something like Hemalurgy or Awakening. Though, like with how Connection increases one's power of Allomancy or efficiency with Surgebinding, extra Connection may still prove useful for making a Command stick better or stuff like that. Great input by all. Thanks!

Quick thought I want to get input on, since Connection seems to be at least part of what determines how powerful of an Investiture weilder you are (Allomancer's Connection to Preservation, Surgebinder's Connection to Honor, etc), do we think tapping Connection to Endowment or Ruin would improve one's ability to innately understand its use, maybe issue stronger Commands? For example, if a Connector Ferring were to store their Connection to Ruin over a week and then tapped it all while charging a Hemalurgic spike, would the spike steal more power? Would they be able to better intuit where to place the spike or issue a more refined Intent for taking more specific attributes? Or, would an Awakener who stored Connection to Endowment maybe be able to tap it to increase Awakening efficiency and intuition?

Yup. My concern before was that you couldn't Forge someone to be an Allomancer or Feruchemist because you're typically relying on Dor to achieve that work- something with no Connection to Preservation or Ruin. It seems based on the WoB that this may not be an issue at all and that the amount of Investiture available is all that's needed.

Personally I would be careful not to take any RPG content to heart, as it’s not necessarily considered cannon. But still, some interesting things might become possible with experimentation, especially considering that the boundaries haven't been well tested yet. Unfortunately, gold shadows can't actually exert physical force- it's all hallucinatory. Maybe, I think that your shadow is still limited to your own body's senses. It's a hallucination and therefore is probably intrinsically tied to your Cognitive Aspect. TSM spoilers: Sorry, it feels like I'm mostly just knocking down your ideas, but I do think they're rather clever.

Possibly, yes, which could be very interesting to see. If memory serves correctly though, it's Nomad who's saying this, and his circumstances are a little different than most when it comes to regeneration. It's possible that he meant the soul can repair lost Investiture but you need something like gold Feruchemy to do so.

True, we don't know a lot about gold's specifics yet, so maybe it is doable. I do wonder, since you can think multiple sets of thoughts simultaneously with gold, can you potentially cheat with it to process information more quickly, or at least have multiple different points of view on a topic? Or, if you're still barred to your normal mental capacity (gold shadows not actually expanding your brain power), perhaps tapping zinc while burning gold can still get you multiple points of view effectively, or allow you to function normally while under the effects of gold without so much mental stress.

This would be an epic use of gold shadows, but I don't know if actual skill is transferred. It's more limited than a similar Selish Investiture, but at the very least information itself can be transferred, so it might be more like how you can tap a Coppermind for knowledge but not muscle memory. TES spoilers: So, maybe you could use it to quickly gather analytical knowledge, maybe even store it in a Coppermind, but applying it wouldn't likely be any easier than watching a DIY YouTube tutorial.

That would be interesting. Kinda want to see gold Allomancy used more practically. True, but ironically gold Feruchemy can potentially help with that. Charge a spike with your own Investiture via Bloodmaking (spiking yourself and then healing), then use gold shadows to determine where to place the spikes on yourself. Agreed. Gold shadows aren't able to look at another individual's alternate history, so you have to be the one to having the spiking done on. That said, once you know where the spikes go, you can easily apply that knowledge to others.

Mistborn was my first as well! Gotta be my favorite series and the magics all tie together as my favorite. Maybe I prefer Feruchemy and Hemalurgy slightly more, as it feels like there's more versatility. The interactions between the Metallic Arts are so cool, and it's really fun to consider them all (which is probably my favorite thing to do on the Shard ).