Trusk'our

That's true, it would take a lot of health to fully regenerate, and it very well might take years to store up enough health, at least initially. What about option 3, in your opinion? If you could, say, use Harmonium to transfer a Pewterarm's health over to the Bloodmaker, maybe even add in a duralumin Gnat for speed, do you think it might be more economic? What if you try to tap at higher percentages? Do you think that stronger Feruchemy might be able to reduce compression loss? Feruchemy gets exponentially less efficient when you need to compress a lot of attribute at once, so increasing its efficiency by, say 80% could mean tapping at the rate Wayne needs to recover from injuries in seconds could take significantly less time, in my opinion. That's fair. This is looking more like a 3$ idea than a 300$ idea What if Miles knew what he was doing with Hemalurgy and decided to do this strategy, but with his Allomancy to increase his total Investiture per unit of gold burned? Do you think that the positive feedback loop would be worth it? His baseline of personal Investiture would increase as well, so he would be more resistant to aging and such too. Plus, since the Investiture all holds his Identity, he could use a single large spike to stack the Hemalurgic Investiture.

Boodmaker + Hemalurgy = Bloodhacker. Good, bad, or great idea? Since Feruchemical gold can repair spiritual damage done by Spiritweb theft, a Bloodmaker could act as a donor for the creation of their own Hemalurgic spikes. Basically, convert Feruchemical Investiture into Hemalurgic Investiture. Now, health is particularly difficult to save up, especially since it takes a lot to make a difference when quickly regenerating from injuries (Wayne needed about two weeks of heavy storing to heal from three gunshot wounds in AoL, if memory serves right), and spiritual damage is likely to be a bigger deal. Miles would apparently need to Compound a lot of health to reliably produce Hemalurgic spikes containing F-gold, so there's that to take into account: This definitely limits your ability to self-charge Hemalurgic spikes, but I see a few options: 1. You accept the cost and primarily use your Feruchemy only to fuel your Hemalurgy. A dedicated Bloodmaker could get at least a few spikes this way (especially since attributes are likely to be cheaper than powers), perhaps duplicating your Feruchemy to give to others, augment your own destiny via H-chromium, or perhaps cheat your way into becoming something akin to a Connector Ferring with careful H-duralumin to remove, regrow, and stack Connections. 2. You make significant upfront investments (literally) and choose to take, regenerate, and add to your own natural Feruchemy, increasing its base strength. I believe that this would increase its efficiency (as weaker Feruchemy results in greater inefficiency), especially when tapping at higher rates, perhaps allowing you to spend less time later feeling sick to get the same results. It might even allow a positive feedback loop to further increase its efficiency for expanding its power by re-spiking yourself to further Invest the same spike. So, say it takes a year to scrounge up enough health to regenerate your Feruchemy once and staple it back on. The second time you spike yourself you may only need to spend 8-10 months, the third 6-8, etc. You'd eventually reach a level of maximum efficiency, but I suspect that the extra base Investment would be worthwhile. 3. You cheese the system even more by getting extra health, perhaps via Harmonium/Pewter Allomancy (which if I understand correctly should be storable), or using other Hemalurgic spikes to grant A-pewter and maybe even A-duralumin for extra speed. This requires even more dedicated resources, but could aid a Bloodmaker in creating more Hemalurgic spikes. It's also worth noting that any spikes you make from your own Spiritweb will share an Identity, making their Investiture stackable and perhaps allowing for other unique shenanigans.

Yup. I was using the WoB that suggested it for its roll in explaining my thoughts on Savantism, but since that quote it's been confirmed Wax isn't actually one himself. Probably true. I do wonder whether a Savant (especially an Allomantic or Compounding Savant) who started young and lived a while would eventually see bigger and bigger cracks, which would open them up more and more to outside influence. Interesting! I like this take, and I think I agree with it as I understand it right now: because the Investiture you use has a certain Intent and overuse makes it leak into the rest of your Spiritweb, saturating it, it starts imposing its own Intent/ideal onto your Spiritweb. Adding to this concept, I wonder if you Compounded a blank Metalmind with no programmed purpose or "power" if it could lead to a Scadrian version of Heightenings. Not sure if it would require a constant influx of Kinetic Investiture to maintain its effects or if you could actually permanently add more Investiture to your Spiritweb over time, but either way it could prove interesting. Hmm, seems like a good take @JustQuestin2004 Perhaps Savantism can be compared to the Nahel Bond in its advancement of Oaths, in that the Bond reinforces the Connection (and possibly Identity) between the Spren and Radiant, but is programmed into the system due to Cultivation's Intent and Spren themselves have sapience. The Investiture of a Metalborn power isn't sapient however, and it's more forced, so more damage/warping may be a consequence. This also fits with the fact that Savantism is confirmed to show up different in Radiant's due to their Bond, so perhaps this is what it meant: Oath progression is Savantism, as no extra Investiture is introduced, but the Connection and efficiency is improved, just as in Metalborn Savantism.

I've been wondering about the specific mechanics of how Savantism works, and I think I have an acceptable working theory. When a Savant uses their Investiture, they push it through their Spiritweb, which when taken to the extreme warps and shapes it. I believe that this is because any stress will cause cracks to appear in the Spiritweb, be it physical injury, emotional pain, or Investiture induced exhaustion, this opens a little crack. These widening cracks allow more Investiture to seep into the Spiritweb, allowing the Investiture to permeate it more, forming new Connections where they shouldn't be which in turns shapes the rest of the being (kind of like how changes made to a being via Hemalurgy are an emergent property of both the spikes' Spiritweb and the person's Spiritweb and can't just be taken with another spike- which also is probably why Savantism can't be automatically transferred via Hemalurgy). I believe that a part of this extra cracking of the Spiritweb can be compared to the Hemalurgic Flaw (and might even mean an advanced Savant could be manipulated or controlled as a Hemalurgic construct could, or at least make it easier), allowing greater transparency in the Intent of the magic user with the power. In other words, an Allomancer can communicate their Intent to a Hemalurgic construct by more deeply penetrating their Spiritweb with Investiture. Similarly, Savantism may allow the Savant to naturally pick up on the Intent of their Investiture as well as being able to skew it more as they wish (like how a Slider Savant can shape their bubble more, or a Coinshot hovering on an anchor). Thoughts and criticisms?

True, that would still be an issue. Perhaps using Soulcast feed to grow animal products could technically bypass Soulcast blandness, though it's rather inefficent.

I like the inside the box thinking But yeah, seems like it should work without too much trouble. Perhaps they eventually decided not to bring the Plate because it would be too conspicuous if they needed to sneak in? The weight of the Plate alone would drain light faster, but if they ultimately used the Highstorm to fuel their passage to Kholinar anyway, it doesn't seem like an issue. So, seems like a plot hole to me, as while there are a few slightly plausible reasons they didn't take it, they aren't very convincing at the moment.

Looks awesome! What's your favorite magic system and why? Also, what's your opinion on Hemalurgy?

Nice! Are you thinking of reading era 2 Mistborn? It's definitely my favorite group of Cosmere books so far. I highly recommend them, despite being a bit different from traditional fantasy.

Hello! What's your favorite magic system and why?

When food is Soulcast, it turns out bland. I used to think that this was due to some kind of unique spiritual component, but apparently the cause is more mechanical in nature. This means that a skilled Radiant could potentially make a flavorful meal, which is something I previously thought fundamentally unachievable without changing some core mechanic of Soulcasting. Are there other ways to get flavors from Soulcast food? What if you made alcohol by fermenting Soulcast grain? My understanding of alcohol is limited, but as I understand it with most brews yeast feeds on the sugars of grain (or grapes for wine), which then produce ethanol and carbon dioxide. This might sidestep the issue of lacking a proper microbial influence, as the yeast is introduced separately.

I mean, technically I think that would work. I think it would be really, really inefficent, but it could be a form of locomotion. I totally forgot about that one. Gonna use it whenever I remember The plasma (technically it's own thing, but plasma is the most comparable substance) in Sel's Cognitive Realm? I think it's that way because Odium shattered and confined two Shards with opposing Intents into the Cognitive Realm, which makes them mash together destructively as Ruin and Preservation did at the end of HoA, only constantly. The Tamu Keks? There's no book with them in it yet, though they're related to dragons and how they communicate with their worshipers, and are comparable to Gemhearts:

I imagine using keyed Dor works for them, as Elantrians don't need extra refinement normally before drawing Aons. In fact, part of me wonders whether too much "refinement" needs to be done to the Dor to take it off world. Multiple Seons have been seen on Scadrial and Roshar, so Connection doesn't seem to bind Sel's Investiture to it, possibly because there is no true Shard or major Invested entity present to act as an anchor for the Investiture (I'll probably start another threads to delve into this more later), sort of like how Shades (presumably, as the Ire have guards posted around Threnody to keep them from escaping, if memory serves right) and Yumi aren't stuck on their worlds despite their high levels of Investiture. I would guess why Dor is purified is actually just to let other systems access it, not just Selish practitioners, just as how Stormlight can't just automatically fuel Allomancy. This is an assumption though, so take it with a pinch of copper.

Aluminum can take Investiture from a Perpendicularity, so perhaps you can scoop it out from the collective mass of Invested plasma on Sel with an aluminum container. After refinement, it doesn't seem to need aluminum anymore, perhaps because the Connection is severed.

Oh definitely, Hemalurgy tweaking attributes has about a one in a million chance of not just automatically messing them up beyond recognition with no benefit. Yeah, it's probably pretty difficult to do, as complex Hemalurgy always is, but Spiritual Realm hacks like chromium Feruchemy and electrum Allomancy should make such a thing more viable (though admittedly still quite difficult, and you'd need a way to boost their power to make a noticeable difference, like Compounding or duralumin Allomancy). And powers gravitating towards a pre-determined set makes sense, which could mess with this possibility.

Yes, you do see some inherent changes to anatomy from power spikes, but they don't seem to change the use of the Allomancy or Feruchemy. True, it does seem that a power spike changes the organ it pierces so that it magically functions on spiritual rules rather than physical ones (a concept explored more on this thread), but these don't actually change how the power is used: you add a Seeker's Allomancy to yourself with a spike, you can use that Allomancy. No difference in function beyond a weakening of the Investiture or adding it to any natural Seeking power you already have. Hence the reason I think it's a bit odd, and perhaps why with some tweaking you could modify actual powers and their functions via Hemalurgy.

Of course he isn't, he hasn't had his Invested-Snickers bar yet.

My home remedy acupuncture has been acting up a little, yes

Ah, it's all good; I was actually kinda doing the same thing on my original response to @Dragonheir, I had splitting headache at the time

These are fair points, and I did jump a little for my own assumption. We probably need more information before we can be certain. This is most likely the case, but still, if one can fundamentally change a human's physiology only by stealing attributes from other regular humans, it seems likely to me that you could potentially do something similar with only powers by splicing them together correctly. Also, I wasn't aware that Kar had triple steel. Where did that come from?

That seems the reverse, actually; adding more spikes with powers usually just adds raw power, more attribute spikes will create something new like a Koloss- which is what I find weird. It does seem like powers granted via Hemalurgy should be similarly warped, but we have no examples of this yet. Savantism is more of a warping of the Spiritweb by stretching it out with too much Kinetic Investiture, but Hemalurgy adds Static Investiture to it, which can have a subsequent warping by adding spiritual DNA where it shouldn't be. This does warp the end product, but not the initial Spiritweb (Koloss don't stay Koloss after death, as seen in MSH). If one could add differing code to a power's portion of the Spiritweb, perhaps the end result could be different while the spike is in place. I think Ascension is a matter of the quantity of Investiture, not Savantism. Savantism changes how your Spiritweb is arranged, not necessarily how Invested you are. Still, seeing how a hyper-Savant handled the changes and the pros and cons of such would be really interesting to see. As for using Allomancy without metals, I kind of doubt it; burning metal to draw Kinetic Investiture from the SR is the base ability. You'd need to fundamentally change it to get such a result (which, perhaps, my proposition for Hemalurgic power modification may allow).

Hemalurgy adds to the Spiritweb of the recipient of a Hemalurgic spike, increasing a given attribute or power, often adding something completely new. However, adding attributes results in a warping of the body and mind. So, why not powers? What I suppose I mean by this is, since adding strength to a person with an iron spike can change a lot more than just adding strength (i.e. alter skin composition, change the digestive tract, alter growth, and change blood composition), so why doesn't adding an Invested power do the same? Perhaps it can, but isn't done normally. Maybe a "misplaced" spike or one harvested with an incorrect Intent (maybe by taking part of another Metalborn's power to recode another) can staple the Investiture onto a Metalborn's natural power, changing what it does. Thoughts?

Probably best to start a new thread in the Mistborn Forum for this question, as this thread is very, very old now. But, technically, yes, if you steal all attributes you also take H-zinc and copper, which both grant resistance to outside control. TenSoon's Blessing of Presence was enough to roughly counter his added Blessing of Potency's vulnerability, so a properly constructed Lerasium spike could be useful for resisting control, at least compared to other spikes (though Trellium likely just does this as a side effect of the Godmetal, so that may be preferable, at when not trying to counter Autonomy herself).

A Stormlight infused object should resist Pushing and Pulled Allomantically, as it's Invested. They should resist Shardweapons too, but probably not enough to be practical, especially since those doing the Investing either have to expend a ton of Stormlight or already have a Shardweapon of their own. As for Stormlight vs Metalmind Investiture amounts, Surgebinding is generally considered a "high power" Art while the Metallic Arts are more of a lower level in terms of raw power: I also find it worth noting that the enormous Shardblades and Shardplate borne by Radiants are comprised entirely of pure, solidified Investiture. As such, Atium and Lerasium are the most comparable Invested objects you'd find on Scadrial. The difference in Investiture is insane, at least when comparing a Spren's composition to a Mistborn/Full Feruchemist's (though I'd argue a Radiant can't actually use all of their Spren's Investiture and really only utilizes a comparatively small proportion, only that which is necessary to hot wire their Spiritweb to the powers, but I digress). Now, this doesn't actually account for how much Kinetic Investiture is weilded by either when burning metals, tapping, or breathing Stormlight, but it does show that Surgebinding has a natural advantage over the Metallic Arts when it comes to the raw Investiture of their sources (though I suppose you could debate how much of their Spren's Investiture actually makes it into the Radiant's Spiritweb for use).

I was thinking on the potential uses of H-chromium when I had a thought; I believe that Destiny is just Fortune, but Fortune that specifically nudges you to take actions specific to an individual. So, what happens if you tried to blank the Identity (and probably Connection) from a chromium spike? If the Connection and/or Identity is what told the Fortune to be someone else's Destiny, then would it just be blank Fortune, essentially what a Spinner would tap from a Chromiummind? This would be comparable to blanked Connection, where it has no specific target, and thus reaches out to the nearest thing (adding to your own Fortune/Destiny). (As a side note, this would be a pretty cool hack for a Spinner to get boatloads of Fortune; store Fortune from the Unkeyed spike, letting you get insane bursts later. No Compounding required. And hey, even if someone else's Destiny doesn't get blanked into raw Fortune, blanking Identity may still allow you to store it as a Spinner, maybe even swap it with your own on occasion depending on which would be most advantageous.)

This is essentially what Unsealed Metalminds do; they possess pieces of Investiture bonded in a similar method to Honorblades. If you really want to go full Radiant and splinter off pieces of Preservation and/or Ruin, yes, this could probably work in theory, but it probably depends on whether you could get that Investiture to coalesce as you want, especially since it probably would require the Spren's Spiritweb to contain the desired power in question (discussed more on this thread). Actually, a better way to get a Radiant-esc system of Allomancy/Feruchemy might be to turn a Metalborn into a Cognitive Shadow (maybe kill them in a Perpendicularity bath?), then bond them via Connection shenanigans. I'd be willing to bet Kelsier could do this to make someone a Mistborn, at least in theory.