Trusk'our

I was thinking the other day of a Team Fortress 2 style Mistborn mercenary team, and fun characters to put in it. One character just had to have a Hemalurgic eye-spike, of course, and I thought comically what it would be like if they tried to use a spyglass, as they don't see with light, but Connection. Then I wondered, what if they could? What if, kind of like a Lifeless, you modified the physical structure of the spike so it had the mechanical components of an eye, then you Invested it with a Hemalurgic charge? That's kind of what Awakening does- Investing a physical and bringing it to life (and Lifeless especially rely on cheap Investiture usage, using the body itself to do most of the work). Since you're taking pre-formed Spiritweb pieces, you might not even need to change the Investiture too much to match it. Beyond just copying Awakening, there's also the supporting fact that it's kind of the opposite of getting a Blade-dead limb: instead of losing Spiritweb control over a limb, you graft a new functioning piece on. Moving onto more exotic uses, if you got the correct Spiritweb fragments or could program them into place, you could use Hemalurgy to graft completely new cybernetic devices to your body, like added neural capacity through a computer, heightened senses with specially crafted eyes or ears, or mechanical limbs you can feel and move. Basically, it would be a new way to use Hemalurgy, instead of just stapling on Spiritweb pieces, it could add physical and mental cybernetics as well. What other uses might Hemalurgic cybernetics have?

Hemalurgy's got some strange mechanics at times, such as how the genetic potential of Invested powers granted via spikes do not pass down to a Hemalurgist's progeny. Simultaneously, some things like a Koloss's change in biology can be transferred, though only partially. I have a new hypothesis as to why this may be, and the consequences of such. Hemalurgy is destructive, both to the donor and the recipient of the spike. It's inherently about change, but a destructive type of change. When a spike is implanted in a person, it forcibly changes their anatomy to plug in, rearranging the Spiritweb to make room for itself, which is reflected in the Physical Realm by changing organ placement and such. However, my thinking is that some of these changes are more permanent, warping the underlying true Spiritweb of the Hemalurgist, not just stapling on Investiture with the spike itself. A bit like Savantism, actually, having the Investiture change the Spiritweb to better fit it. These changes to the Spiritweb can be transferred, as they aren't part of the spike's Spiritweb fragments and Identity, but the Hemalurgist's own. Hence the reason Koloss can have Koloss-blooded children: the warping (and possibly expanding? It is caused by an introduction of extra Investiture, after all, like how Slivers get more expanded from holding Investiture temporarily) gets transferred, though the power of the spikes themselves (which are part of a full Koloss's spiritual and physical form) is distinct enough to remain separate. These changes could also explain why Steel Inquisitors can have children with no extra Allomantic potential, but can have "complications": the physical and mental transformations can be passed on to a lesser degree, but Allomantic potential is not (the first WoB says Allomancy can't be transferred, and it's from 2019 vs the second from 2012, hence the reason I trust it more). Now I know an argument can be made that Koloss are unique due to Sazed's direct meddling and therefore can't be considered a reliable source to determine how Hemalurgic genetics work, but I have a hypothesis for that too. I don't think Sazed did change their species directly, but changed the system a bit, much like he tweaked Allomancy's required trauma for Snapping. Modern Hemalurgy is far less "aggressive"- it refuses to grant more than a certain number of powers (probably due to excessive Spiritweb damage) and can't override Identity contamination. Ancient Hemalurgy may have rendered Koloss sterile due to the extra Spiritweb damage it caused, but modern Hemalurgy may not do this due to its lessened capacity. I think that this is what Sazed changed (and probably fixed up previously existing Koloss like he did Spook so they could function as modern Koloss). In any case, moving back to the original topic, I think that there are ways we could see this permanent Spiritweb transformation be relevant. If a Hemalurgist tried to swap power spikes, I think that there would be a slight residual change each time, possibly making the Hemalurgist continue to be Invested with Ruin's Investiture and Connect to it as well as become slightly less "human" each time. These changes would be small enough to be pretty much inconsequential most of the time, but I think would technically exist. If a Koloss were to have their spikes removed and tapped sufficient F-gold (no, I don't think removing the Linchpin spike would be an issue. Yes, I do have a good reason to assume this and I'll make a separate post about it another time), I think that their would be a residual change, maybe making them into a Koloss-blooded person instead of a regular human (though perception may screw with this). Thoughts?

Sorry, here's the reference, which I feel fits Autonomy's situation perfectly, only between Nightblood and Ruin: This is probably due to Nightblood's Command to destroy evil, something fundamentally attuned to Ruin's Intent, which probably hot wired the Awakened sword to that Shard. It also fits that Ruin's Investiture- ruinous change- seems to be able to change other Investitures to fit its own Intent, like Hemalurgic spikes stealing Preservation’s Investiture but Connecting you to Ruin, or why Nightblood feeds on so many different Investitures but only leaks black Investiture (which is associated with Ruin's Intent).

Interesting. I wonder, since Nightblood bears Ruin's Investiture if Sazed ever became aware of its presence if he could contact or tweak the weapon, maybe use it as his "sword"?

I don't know if stabbing the heart is necessarily more efficient, it just seems that the Set's method of charging spikes non-lethally got the Bindpoints without physically penetrating too deeply. In other words, I think it's likely the same amount of Investiture was collected and damage done to the Spiritweb, just that the physical trauma wasn't enough to kill.

Welcome to the Shard! It's an interesting idea, but I think aluminum is a non-Godmetal, just one with irregular properties. It's not gathered the way Godmetals are, but collected as a standard resource, if a somewhat valuable one. As a friendly pointer to a new Sharder, it's generally a good idea to check whether a thread has been around for a while before responding, as bringing up old threads (known as necroing) can be a little disruptive- opinions and information change over time, so starting a new thread to continue discussions is usually best. Also, lots of folks (myself included) would love to get get to know you a little better in the introduction forum. Nice meeting you!

Ah, yes, I agree with that idea: if the spikes started with no Identity, they could resonate with the Kandra and eventually adopt theirs. Hemalurgic duralumin can steal Identity/Connection, which is something he would have access to. With the right set up, including his Shard-expanded knowledge, he could non-lethally spike two donors of their Identities, then spike them with the other spikes intended to become Kandra Blessings.

It could be that four is the soft limit, but it's possible that Dumad had five spikes instead of four. We don't know for certain. Plus, Telsin seemed to be careful not to give too much power to her minions, so I wouldn't be surprised if the max is actually greater than most Set members were allowed. How so? I do think something weird is going on with Kandra Blessings, as they seem to Key to each Kandra's Identity despite their contents not being taken from them (and TLR handing them over for the Kandra to use as they see fit, so they must change Identity, at least at first), but Unsealed Metalminds seem to be completely different to me.

Interesting! I think there should be far more than just 4-8 construct possibilities though, as you can mix up Bindpoints and the contents of each spike. For example, Kandra Blessings aren't just due to being used on Mistwraiths, but because different parts and percentages of the Spiritweb were used to Invest them. I don't know if copper spikes can be placed in the eyes, at least according to Spook's research of Inquisitor Bindpoints with the Hemalurgy table. That's where physical metals go. I wouldn't be too surprised if it was more dependent on the specific contents of the spikes though, so perhaps it's plausible. As for blindness from eye spikes, I don't think that this would be an issue. I made a thread discussing the possibility of Hemalurgic spikes pulling the Spiritual Aspect of an organ, allowing it to continue functioning despite physical disfigurement. As such, my belief is that any functional Hemalurgic spike in the eye should grant Steelsight as a side effect. Ooo, that's an interesting one. Really creative take on that attribute, in a good way. Maybe they could also be hyper-aware of other's emotions by reading their body language or facial expressions, allowing them to predict behavior with extreme accuracy.

Hemalurgy is (obviously) my favorite to read about, mostly because every time a new book uses it, some new possibilities are shown for its use, and it gives the bad guys an edge to and spice things up. Allomancy and Feruchemy are close seconds, as they have a lot of creative uses and allow fun actions, all while not overburdening the characters with nigh immortality (I'm looking at you, Surgebinding). I'd have to say the Investiture of Canticle was my least favorite to read- it felt too "cheap" to work with compared to the engaging challenges of Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy, yet had few interesting payoffs.

Usually, I make a post talking about a new possible way to utilize Investiture or some Cosmere phenomenon, and I suppose that this thread will do the same, to an extent. However, more to the point, I wanted to make a character that would be in the Mistborn setting but have cognitive benefits in a similar way that a Koloss-blooded person has athletic ones. Basically, if a Koloss was made with copper spikes instead of iron and had a kid, what possible ways might that person be like? Any fun ideas how this cognition could manifest itself, or how it would look if roll playing? Raw "intelligence" seems a bit amorphous (I suppose you could break it down into the different types of intelligence though, and say only one or a few are improved), so more specific perks would probably be more engaging.

Rlain has never borne Slaveform to my knowledge, but has used Dullform. They're similar, but Dullform maintains a level of Identity and Connection while Slaveform does not. True, but even Parsh can potentially gain Connection and Identity under the right circumstances and adopt a new Form. They still have the evolutionary equipment for that function, so I feel like these WoBs could be similarly applied to them. That's fair, I suppose: just having the Investiture present in the Singer's body doesn't mean it will be programmed in the necessary ways to bond it properly. Still, Breath does mold to the bearer more easily than any other Investiture, can shape an artificial Spiritweb (as Lifeless themselves are viable to charge Hemalurgic spikes, albeit weakly), and given that Singers have a natural ability to plug Investiture into their Spiritweb, I wouldn't put the possibility of the Breath filling that gap out the window. Valid points. What about Hemalurgic spikes though? They're pretty close to what Singers already do with Spren, taking another piece of Investiture with a Spiritweb and plugging it in, though Singers are specifically adapted to it.

There's a few WoBs that talk about whether or not a Singer can gain sapience from Bio-Chromatic Breaths. The first is from the Chicago Firefight signing in February of 2015, while the second is August of the same year, and as it's on an online platform Brandon had more time to think it over and respond clearly. So, I'm thinking that a Singer with in Slaveform would adapt to the Breath and gain a proper Form along side clear thought. This has made me wonder though, could an Awakener give Breath with a specific Command to change what Form this would be? Perhaps a Command to be protect others would copy Warform, or a Command to heal gain biological regenerative abilities. Another question might be whether other types of Investiture could grant Forms as the Singer adapts to the Investiture. For example, perhaps since Singers are specifically adapted to changing form to fit their Investiture they could more easily bear Hemalurgic spikes. Maybe an iron spike would give them a Form with additional size and strength, but be more merciful in its transformation than with a human, leaving them with more cognition. Or, perhaps a Singer who burned Lerasium could gain an Allomancer Form. Maybe bonding an Aviar or an Unsealed Metalmind could grant Forms. Thoughts?

Ascension doesn't cause actual death to the body though. If you descend via death as Leras and Ati did, your body reforms afterward anyway. Even temporary Ascension as in Rashek's case doesn't leave your body destroyed afterwards. As such, I would consider the evaporation of the body into Investiture to be more like a transference of states than truly destructive. Indeed, Steelpushing without pewter Allomancy or gold Feruchemy should leave one utterly devastated (and dead). That isn't caused by the Investiture though, but the environment. A Steelrunner is basically immune to the Gs placed on their body from moving so fast, but the environmental factor, the heat, isn't. Similarly, no Pewterarm bolstered by a Nicroburst would die if they stood still, though if they tried jumping they'd probably get seriously injured when they fell back down. Or, if a Skimmer taps enough weight to break through a floor they are left unscathed- unless they impaled themselves on some wooden shrapnel in the process. Also, as a side note, I feel curious as to why we need several Nicrobursts in these situations? While I do feel more Nicroburst Investiture could help widen Allomantic cracks more if you're trying to get lingering aftereffects, with actual super-flaring it's the amount of metal burned that counts toward the effect. A single Nicroburst should just as easily crush a Coinshot as ten working in unison, I would think. That's an excellent point. I had forgotten about Straff. With that in mind, you probably can actually do some permanent effects when flaring enough Emotional Allomancy. I think Marasi might be the more unique example for resisting the aftershocks then, as she had already worked through shame before and come to terms with it, while Straff had no such advantage. I wonder, could a bad guy brainwash their followers by repeatedly blasting them with loyalty via duralumin/zinc Allomancy? Or, maybe you could help someone with depression by occasionally blasting them with positive vibes? That's true, but this is a result of the Investiture of Allomancer's own power, not the duralumin/nicrosil's Investiture. If forcing a Tineye's Investiture through their Spiritweb long and hard enough causes certain changes, a different Investiture should cause different effects. There would probably be some overlap though, as the Spiritweb is still being warped by Investiture, just as any Savant would have. So, I suppose I'm proposing that powerful duralumin/nicrosil can create a Savant with their Investiture, but that this brand of Savantism is different than what the power they're boosting would be. Specifically, that it might let you burn your metals a faster naturally, maybe Invested your base power slightly more. Yeah, that helps a bit. There's a lot we don't know for certain yet, but discussing differing viewpoints with nice folks is always fun

It could be, but I suspect while there are similarities that they would be somewhat different, at the very least because duralumin/nicrosil's Investiture is being added to the mix. I think Savantism is more about the Spiritweb "leaking" from using a given Investiture to much, which then permeates the Spiritweb and seemingly changes it to fit its own ideal. Greater uses of power, such as duralin/nicrosil flaring could probably push this phenomenon simultaneously though. That said, I hypothesize that Allomantic duralumin/nicrosil is specifically more about augmenting the Spiritweb cracks filled with the Allomancer's power, thus regulating the flow of Investiture from Preservation to the Allomancer. So I think you're right, there would be Savantism-like consequences for doing this, though I think they would be slightly different than regular Allomantic Savantism, as would be the benefits. Probably something like regular Savantism plus an extra cost/benefit from their Allomancy suffused Spiritweb cracks getting expanded, maybe permeated with slightly more Investiture. Although, if it's truly just another brand of Savantism, the end result might make you more dependent on the duralumin/nicrosil flare to get the same end result from your metals, possibly making you weaker instead when not receiving such a boost. Investiture does protect its practitioner, so I don't know if self destruction is necessarily going to occur from a super-flared Allomantic effect. As for Emotional Allomancy leaving a harsher mark, possibly, though unlikely in my opinion. Super-flared Emotional Allomancy pushes on one's Cognitive Aspect strongly, but apparently can induced physiological responses to fight back (Though this is a pretty old WoB, so take it with a grain of salt). As such, it may prove more difficult to create lingering effects from supercharged Emotional Allomancy. Marasi walked just away fine from her Dor-fuled cousin's flare of shame in TLM, after all.

There's a fun little WoB that speaks of advanced use of Leeching (specifically as a Savant, though maybe duralumin or nicrosil augmentation could help achieve a similar result) as being capable of permanently shutting down an Invested power. This makes me wonder, would duralumin or nicrosil usage potentially do the opposite? For example, maybe a sufficiently strong nicrosil flare could permanently boost a Misting's power by opening their Spiritweb up, letting more Investiture flow in like when you Snap. Heck, if opening the Spiritweb to more Investiture is the base mechanism for these metals (which it very well couldn't), maybe you could theoretically force a non-Metalborn (Scadrian) to Snap with a powerful enough burst, though it might just make them a relatively weak Allomancer like when the Mists Snapped people artificially.

After a quick Google search, it does seem that way, yes. Still, finding a method that doesn't rely on an extremely rare, costly, and volatile Godmetal would be preferable I would think, especially since the rounds couldn't be Allomantically inert to fire with Harmonium.

Yes, that's a plausible use of Harmonium, but may I ask why you can't a more conventional gun? Yes, it can.

Lol, I get the feeling- there are so many theories I've made at this point I forgot what half of them are Seems viable to me. A Gold Compounder would be very useful for this process: spike out their Allomancy, heal it back with their Feruchemy, then add the spike to their power before repeating the process. You can even recycle their cadmium spike to hold multiple Hemalurgic charges, as there is no worry of Identity contamination. Since stronger Allomancy increases the amount of Investiture you get per unit of metal burned, after a few spikings you're using far less gold to manufacture powers, and it only shrinks as you further expand the Compounder's Allomancy. After your Compounder is 20x as efficient with their gold Compounding, then you Compound with massive efficiency to spike and heal other Metalborn. It's viability depends on how much health is needed to fully replace the power, but even if it's steep the feedback loop would probably compensate fairly well. I suppose if you could add in F-Nicrosil to store your Allomancy and gain greater efficiency briefly while actively Compounding without needing to expend as many precious metals, though this is assuming nicrosil works that way and that you can bypass Identity issues. Identity contamination is definitely an issue if no natural gold Compounder exists, but there are plausible avenues to bypass this restriction on an Auger with a gold Feruchemy-granting spike (aluminum Feruchemy and as a last resort duralumin Hemalurgy).

Possibly, though @Treamayne's right, we don't have enough solid evidence yet for several factors yet. We don't know for sure whether Hemalurgic duralumin can effectively blank the Identity from powers or whether an Unkeyed Nicrosilmind can be tapped to gain extra power without any extra steps. Still, it's a good idea, and I think that there's a decent chance of this working. Those Twinborn better get a lot of health from gold Feruchemy beforehand though- permanently stripping your Identity and Connection might leave you in a state similar to a Slave Form Singer (though that's not confirmed either, just a guess of my own based off what was said in OB about their Connection and Identity being taken and wounding them).

I mean, even if you couldn't Awaken a set of Shardplate, you could probably still Awaken a regular suit of armor to mimic Shardplate's abilities and make it sapient in the process.

I finally got ahold of my personal copies of the Mistborn books again (briefly, at least), and something stuck out to me about Harmonium tech. In BoM, the Harmonium "grenades" are able to copy the power of an Allomancer briefly, and according to Allik airships' Ettmetal can actually sustain an Allomantic effect by burning itself, such as by replacing Wax's Steelpushing to run its fan. In TLM however, Marasi's cubes work a bit differently. Not only do they absorb all of her Investiture, they also hold that charge for a period of time, running out eventually. It seems to act more like a battery than a true replicant the way its described in this book, having a measured amount of Investiture it can hold onto and doll out later. This feels more like a different ability to me and less just a technological improvement: the original Harmonium cubes functioned as something of an engine, actually becoming both the power and the fuel, but the more modern cubes used by Marasi in TLM act a little more like Metalminds for Allomancy. Does anyone else feel this is the case, or is it just me trying to extrapolate too much? In any case, it's made me wonder if the way Harmonium is utilized in technology is by using methods similar to Fabrial construction, creating metal cages to program the Investiture to behave differently. For example, perhaps a nicrosil cage tells Harmonium to completely siphon off an Allomancer's Investiture to act more as a battery, while another metal tells the Harmonium to expend itself to replicate the power in full for airship engines. If this is the way Harmonium is utilized, it could be far more versatile than I previously thought. Thoughts?

Oh, in that case, yes, Miles was just trying to resist Steelpushing and Ironpulling. I worded that weirdly. What I meant to say was, what if Miles Hundred Lives knew about Hemalurgy and knew what to do with it, would it be worthwhile to spike, replicate, and expand his Allomantic power?

@Speeding Steelrunner, yup, F-Bendalloy is more like copper than other Feruchemical powers. The Ars Arcanum talks about Bendalloy storing calories and liquids to be drawn out later. You store something discrete, then draw it out later. Seems like cadmium and brass do the same, as you're not increasing the potential of an attribute, but actually siphoning off and later returning physical matter or energy. Actually, it seems to me that Bendalloy, cadmium, and brass store from the Physical Realm instead of the spiritual because of this, not temporarily diverting Investiture from the Spiritweb (which snaps back into its previous state when you finish storing but before you tap) but instead converting physical matter to Investiture and back. Copper is similar, but with the Cognitive Realm.

Mine too. I absolutely love all the connections you can find between the powers. There's always another secret.