Trusk'our

Nice to meet you! Welcome! Seeing as you've read Mistborn, which of the three Metallic Arts is your favorite? What do you hope to see from each one in Era 3?

Welcome to the Shard! What are your thoughts on Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy? Which is your favorite?

I know this horse has been beaten to death, eaten by a Mistwraith and then beaten senseless again, but I just had an epiphany that I think would reasonably tie it all together. We know the Malwish Consortium wanted the Bands, seeing them as an artifact from their god, the Sovereign. With them, they could probably expand their Unsealed Metalmind tech enormously. You can't do that if they're drained though. Plus, we know from Steris that things seemed off with them. That there was a practiced air to their interaction with the Bands' seeming uselessness. I think now that an Allomantic grenade was used in conjunction with the power of aluminum, temporarily preventing anyone from tapping the Bands, but leaving their power intact. So, I think we will see the Bands again at some point and their impact on Southern Scadrian Metalmind tech. Thoughts on this take?

It seems possible to bond Cognitive Shadows as you would a Spren. I'm curious as to your reasoning in this. A bond between Kelsier and Spook to grant Feruchemy. Kelsier was a Mistborn, but never bore Feruchemy, at least not that we've seen on screen. Even if such a bond would grant Spook access to his Investiture, I don't see how this would work. Personally, I think it's most likely the Bands were created through the use of the leftover Inquisitor spikes, with either Spook or a follower of Kelsier bearing them and their own Investiture to mesh all the powers into the Bands. We know Kelsier was involved somehow, despite his current inability to access his Allomancy. I think he probably used his Connection to Spook to give him Sliver-obtained knowledge to push the construction of the Bands. There's probably a lot more to it, like Kelsier involving Khriss perhaps, but as of yet we don't know for certain.

I think that this is mostly a cultural perception from TLR's influence. Some Compounding is certainly quite dangerous, but only a few types I'd think. Iron could let you squish metallic structures easily, but it's riskier than a Crasher's abilities. Pewter is powerful too, but even if they could figure out and Compound raw Allomantic strength instead of muscle power it's really not world shaking. Tin would make you more sensitive, but equally susceptible to overestimation. Bronze just lets you stay awake indefinitely. Copper isn't really known, but it's probably just another memory hack. Brass would let to heat things up a lot, but a simple gun is already way more dangerous in most situations. Zinc could let you figure things out very quickly, but it doesn't seem to inherently boost intelligence. Plus, the more you tap the more it strains your body's resources (like calories). Electrum's determination could be interesting, but probably not extraordinarily dangerous. Bendalloy lets you stop eating or drinking in exchange to ingesting a very expensive metal. Cadmium just lets you go without air. Aluminum probably straight up doesn't work for Compounding. Steel, gold, and probably chromium could be quite dangerous, but I think they're the only seriously risky Compounders, at least directly. Nicrosil and duralumin might have some dangerous potential too, but I think it's more theoretical in nature. It depends on whether they can gather enough Cosmerlogical information to develop further uses for their Investiture.

Hmm, starting in Era 1 Mistborn is quite tempting, maybe a few hundred years before the events of TFE (I'm removing any morality from this strategy, so it isn't one I'd actually want to do). I can't rely on chance for becoming a Metalborn, but I can become skilled at bureaucracy and become an Obligator (I'll name my avatar Oswald) and try to weasel out secrets of Hemalurgy from the canton of Inquisition. Assuming Oswald can get that information, he can then attempt to leverage his influence as a government agent to get underground favors, set up traps for Allomancers and maybe even Keepers. He could then conceivably grow a customized repertoire of powers, differing somewhat from what true Inquisitors have based on availability and utility. Becoming a Worldhopper is key to advance Oswald's influence much further, as Rashek isn't going to be an opponent a smart person would want to face and Ruin's influence on Scadrial mostly leaves that world as a dead end for ultimate power for the next couple centuries. I think it's somewhat plausible for Oswald the Hemalurgic Obligator to discover Perpendicularities while hunting Atium geodes, as grabbing the Godmetal would already be a must. After popping through a Perpendicularity in the Pits and snatching a few Atium beads, Oswald could try to use Emotional Allomancy to help convince a Worldhopping merchant to take him with them, likely to a popular location- like Nalthis. During that travel he'd continue to Soothe and gather information on the wider Cosmere. After stopping at Nalthis via Perpendicularity the Obligator would use his Hemalurgically acquired powers to find a position of political and financial power (likely in Hallandren) by Soothing superiors and contractors, and by assassinating those who wouldn't be swayed in the night. Investing money and purchasing Breath over time plus adding some stolen Breath from Mistborn escapades and he'd obtain functional immortality, great wealth, a position of political power, a little Atium, and the abilities of a fairly powerful Awakener and Inquisitor. Oswald would keep tabs on Worldhopping activities, and learn tales of Shardblades and Plate (if he didn't already know), so he'd eventually want to make his way over there. Not sure how the chronology lines up though, so he might have to wait a while for actual Surgebinding to become a viable option. I'll probably add a part 2 later, but for now Oswald the Obligator is sitting comfortable on a pile of Nalthian Breaths while slowly growing greedy for more power.

Me too! Amara in book four, if memory serves right. Personally, I would prefer all these to be how they worked. They fit thematically and have a much clearer range of ability (if I ever GM a Codex Alera game, I'm lifting these ideas for personal use). Unfortunately, I don't think the metal or watercrafting works like that canonically- watercrafting was used by Max to convincingly copy Gaius in book two. That requires the ability to alter bone structure, I think (if TenSoon has taught me anything). Metalcrafting is more a "sixth sense" I think, but I don't know how that would increase physical speed enough to stop windcrafted weapons. But again, maybe I'm just being too picky in a story that's truly great overall. It is pretty powerful. Wonder if a firecrafted light plus a windceafted lens could laser through your enemies, or if relying on artificial lighting is just too cost intensive to be practical. I think it's her actual nails, since making ice is firecrafting's thing and I'm pretty sure Odiana was able to change her hair with watercrafting too. Glad it wasn't just me who felt that way. I kinda felt like their reputation was a bit too inflated given the other Furies' abilities. Still, being able to cut through most things that aren't reinforced with another's metalcrafting is pretty useful. So realistically, if they can get in close they're probably the best of the crafters in combat. Except maybe for windcrafting's speed. True, he did kill that colossal Vord, so there is some example of that with Earthcrafting. I guess the scene with Amara sticks out to me more, since speed is always super busted. Sounds like a good bet to me. Maybe it could also use some kind of direct Fury-assisted attack, something else to negate Furycrafting protection? Given how the Icemen were all watercrafters, I'd say this theory has real merit. I wonder what the other civilizations the Alerans wiped out could do? Marat have animal bonds and Canim have blood magic. Others were mentioned, but I don't recall any specifics.

Honestly, a lot of people have chosen Feruchemy over Allomancy. It's just too convenient to beat. Plus, building up power over time is intrinsically pleasing. At least that's how I see it.

Look forward to seeing your theories! Welcome! Given that you've read Mistborn, what are your thoughts on Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy as magic systems? Which one is your favorite?

It's been a little while, but I read the Codex Alera series at one point and wanted to discuss some of my thoughts for Furycrafting with anyone willing to listen. Obviously, this will involve spoilers for all six books, so if you haven't read the series yet I'd recommend you do so before reading further. It's pretty good. I'll also reference some Cosmere magic systems as well, but I won't go super spoilery for that. Windcrafting: I've felt rather odd about this one several times, specifically about the fact that windcrafting can increases physical speed. And, of course, anything that can increase physical speed (ahem, steel Feruchemy) feels like it should be super duper overpowered without strong limitations. I think it doesn't protect your body from high velocity, but you can still move pretty fast. Plus, it speeds up your perception, which shouldn't be tied to your body's ability to move. Earthcrafting: I don't have any real questions about this one. I loved the limitation based on weight (like pewter Allomancy) and the need to touch the ground. It felt powerful, but not overly so. Watercrafting: this one, I've mostly wondered on limitations of shapeshifting. Like, how far can it go? We see Odiana completely change her figure in book one, and spies can appear as completely different people. Isana can grow claw-like nails as a weapon. So, could a skilled watercrafter change their appearance like a Returned, become inhumanly proportioned? Could a spy or gold digger convincingly appear as the opposite sex? Since hair and nails can be affected, can bones be shaped or strengthened? And, if things like height and mass can change, can a person go so far as to shapeshift into more exotic forms, like a small canim? Firecrafting: not much of note here. Like earthcrafting, I think it's usually balanced. Lots of destructive potential, but taxing and it can be dodged by well coordinated combatants. Metalcrafting: on the opposite side of my opinion spectrum from windcrafting, I really feel like metalcrafting shouldn't be as powerful as it's made out to be. All other Furycrafting types have some external form of attack, which metalcrafting simply lacks (windcrafting can blast you with hurricane force winds, earthcrafting can bury you, watercrafting can dump water on you and forcibly drown you, woodcrafting can grapple and crush you with grass or shrubbery, and firecrsfting can directly incinerate you). Not only that, but I'm left confused as to how windcrafting is outpaced by metalcrafting's strikes- I don't think speed was ever stated to be part of metalcrafting's repertoire, so how can they beat a windcrafting duelist? Perhaps I'm being too harsh in my opinion of metalcrafting, but I feel like this magic dropped a more realistic approach to the magic (like in earthcrafting's reliance on weight and touching the ground) in favor for cinematic flavor (though if others would like to change my mind, please feel free to. I'm especially curious as to what other's thoughts on this are). Woodcrafting: only thing I'm kind of confused about- how does controlling plants correlate with invisibility? Given the other powers of Furycrafting I guess this isn't farfetched, it just felt a little odd is all. Overdrawn Furycrafting: we see in book 4, I believe, Amara draw a larger portion of Cirrus into herself than normal, letting her move with ridiculous speed in exchange for severely damaging her body in order to save Bernard. I think it would have been interesting to see this with other forms of overdrawn crafting. Maybe see Bernard pull a massive amount of strength from Brutus momentarily and rip a Vord in half with his bare hands, or maybe see a watercrafter almost lose themselves learning the depths of a person's psyche to get information. Furycrafted weapons: if I remember correctly, wasn't an assassin found trying to kill Aquitaine with a "Furycrafted" dagger? Aldrick commented on it being a strong one, but what would it actually do? Metalcrafting already empowers the user's weapon, so would it do anything different? Bound Furies: gargoyles are seen multiple times, made from earth Furies. Does this mean a person could theoretically build an army of Furies to fight for them? How come these weren't used by the legion? Genetics: given that genetics greatly determine the power of a furycrafter, wouldn't it make sense for High Lords in particular to have many, many children? Basically pull a Straff and spawn an army of super soldiers from a harem. Not exactly a great idea, but it would make sense. Collecting Furies: this one's been the weirdest to me. In book four we learn from Araris that Furies can be passed to others, so wouldn't that mean they could be collected like Breath in Warbreaker? Maybe people could even buy them for exorbitant prices. In book six, we learn that wild Furies can be captured. Sure it's dangerous, but plenty of things in Alera are. So, couldn't an ambitious individual hunt Furies in the wilds of Alera, growing in Furycraft until they can rival High Lords and Ladies? Or they sell extra Furies and make a tidy- if risky- profit. How come Tavi didn't try getting a Fury through these means, maybe become a successful businessman, grow a fortune and buy a Fury from a hunter? Anyway, other thoughts on Furycrafting?

A weird musing I had- basically, you know how turning into a Koloss generally shortens your lifespan greatly, because Koloss die around 20-ish years after their transformation from growth related issues? Well, what if you had a very elderly person, maybe in their eighties who accepts spikes from a Koloss tribe and becomes one of them? Their new bone density and muscle growth should easily offset the deterioration from old age, and Koloss are extremely resistant to disease (considering that they have practically no protection from skin yet are never mentioned having infections). So, would turning your grandparents into Koloss let them live an extra two decades, and with a boost of strength and vitality to boot?

If I remember correctly, being insane makes one's mind open to Realmatic influence more, such as hearing the whisperings of Shards and Cognitive Shadows. Would this significantly impact certain forms of Allomancy, perhaps in a beneficial way? For example, let's say an Oracle Misting burned electrum while totally bonkers. Would they peer more deeply into the SR, maybe gain insight they normally wouldn't have? What about Seekers? They listen to the Pulses of Investiture, so would their "hearing" become more acute? If this does cause significant changes in Investiture use, Augers should be influence too. Maybe they'd be better at interacting with their gold-induced hallucinations?

Good to have you here! Which of the Metallic Arts do you like best and why?

Nice to have you here! Which of the three Metallic Arts do you think is best and why?

Welcome! Which of the Metallic Arts is your favorite and why?

Probably, though it may not be as easy as we had once assumed where stapling your victim twice would yeild incredible power. There's probably a lot practice and information needed on the Hemalurgist's part. Yeah, that might work. Might not even need to remove your own, just add the Duralumin spike on top of the power spike. Since duralumin seems to count as a human attribute it might cause more warping in the recipient, but if you hook it up right maybe you can fuse enough of their Identity to yourself to bypass Identity contamination and not break the Preservation bond. Another possible avenue, at least.

Thanks! I appreciate it. I think forging a spike would prove easier, as it contains only a fragment of a Spiritweb as opposed to a whole Twinborn's. Plus, with the correct rewriting and a piece from an old Inquisitor's spike I suppose it's not that crazy to Forge an Era 1 spike into existence. Not easy, but crafting an extensive Forgery usually isn't anyway. Maybe. It depends on if the spike's Identity separates it from you anyway, making it act too independent. But it seems plausible overall. Same here. I usually like finding lots of different ways to cheat the Investiture, using pre-existing systems to make something new and exciting. It's fun!

I can agree with that. It might be a little like Awakening, where most of the Investiture (present in the sand's microorganisms) isn't used up by the Master, but has an effect nonetheless. An extra, kinetic input of Investiture comes from the SR as the Master forges a Luhel bond. The Investiture inside the microorganisms is depleted by the end, though given how Sand Masters can vary greatly in how long they use their power and how it seems to always cause the same level of depletion, it makes me think the PR Investiture isn't used in maintaining the bond, but may be an initial anchor of some kind, maybe a kickstarter for the bond.

Just to clarify, your proposal is to use Hemalurgic spikes to make a Soulbearer capable of making Unsealed Metalminds? Forging spikes in this way would be harder, as you'd really want a more plausible change, and not just any metal spike would have a plausible history of once belonging to an Inquisitor. However, if you took a Pathian earring with a charge, melted it into a larger spike, then Forged to to say it was never broken down but was preserved instead, then you might have a usable Forgery. You're still going to need a boost of Investiture though, as you mentioned.

I thought Khriss stated in the Arcanum Unbounded that Sand Mastery draws small amounts of Investiture from the SR in exchange for water? Coppermind: Plus, it's kind of weird that the sand can keep going as long as the Master has enough water, but immediately empties of Investiture once they release it. I think there must be some Investiture in the PR to initiate the process, but water is traded for Investiture from the SR as long as the Master maintains their control. Once the Master stops, the bond with the microorganisms in the sand breaks and they become exhausted and fall dormant until they absorb more Investiture.

This is a bit of an assumption, but I think Sand Mastery gets more efficient the more powerful you are. Like Allomancy, you trade a kind of physical matter for Investiture from the SR. Allomancy lets you grab more Investiture for the same amount of metal, so Sand Mastery would presumably work under similar principles.

Oh yeah, cause you could try to hack the Allomantic part to instantly Compound, meaning your main limitation to godlike levels of Connection would be getting enough metal? It would be pretty neat, if it's possible. Double nicrosil could be fun too, since you can probably make a positive feedback loop, using Feruchemy to improve your Allomantic strength, which lets to Compound better, which lets you tap more Investiture to improve Compounding. . . There'd be an upper limit to this if it were possible to do, but combine it with Savantism and I think it would be pretty high.

Personally, I think there's an extra step for Unsealed Metalminds. Feruchemical duralumin is supposed to be involved somehow. What's more, we know that the nicrosil portion of medallions aren't really tapped, but bonded in a similar manner to Honorblades. Now, given that the BoM could have their nicrosil tapped I think this is either optional (allowing for a more sustainable yet less flashy power, as you couldn't increase the strength of your Investiture by tapping more quickly) or that the Bands could both be bonded and be tapped (the latter I suspect is the case). In any case, I think some tapping of Connection while Feruchemically storing Investiture could imprint on the Metalmind. If it was the correct kind, such as a Blanked Connection to people in the same way there's Blanked Connection to land of birth, the Investiture might reach out to Connect with anyone holding it, making an Unkeyed Nicrosilmind become Unsealed. We do know that there is an effect from tapping Connection and storing an attribute after all, one that Brandon specifically plans to have on page eventually. This is obviously speculation though, so please take it with a pinch of copper. Loved reading your idea, and hope to discuss more later!

Good to meet you! Discussing Cosmere mechanics is probably my favorite past time. Especially Hemalurgy. There's lots of potential to uncover there. Speaking of which, what's your opinion on the Scadrian blood magic (and Allomancy and Feruchemy)?