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Quintessential

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  1. Quintessential
    *rubs eyes* okay so I was essentially a spectator this game, and didn't pay much attention to it after the first few cycles, so I originally thought I didn't have any opinions about what happened in it. And I guess I don't as to what happened in the game, but as someone whose primary interaction with the game was through the spec doc, I would like to say this: The problems with this game were just as present in the spec doc as in the game itself. A lot of the doc was devoted to discussions, often heated ones, of the players in the game. Now, the discussions part was normal, but I found some of it problematic for a couple of reasons. The people in the dead doc were often judging others without looking at things from their perspective, or without having all the information, and they were doing it in a space where the people they were talking about couldn't see the comments or respond to them. That's how dead docs always work, I know, but it was worse than usual this game. That's likely due to the second thing. Probably because of the additional temporary layers of perceived anonymity, people were far harsher than in typical dead docs. I've had some less than kind things said about me in dead docs before; usually they were at least somewhat merited but they still hurt to read, were far stronger than was actually needed to convince me I'd made mistakes, and they still weren't nearly as bad as what I saw in this dead doc. This probably belongs with the previous point, but not only were the critiques harsher, they were more universal. My experience with dead docs is that if I screw up somehow, someone whom it affected strongly will point it out vocally, a few others will agree, and then discussion kinda moves on. That didn't happen here. Everyone had a strong opinion, most of them negative. That's a lot to deal with at the end of a game, and if I were Illwei or Ventyl then reading what was said about me would leave a sour taste in my mouth and I probably would reevaluate the whole game, not just in an "okay I should have done things differently" kind of way but a "why did I play this game in the first place" or an "I don't want to play an AN again" kind of way. Look, saying things in the dead doc for future players to reflect on in the future is all well and good, but it doesn't change anything about what's happening here and now. If there's a serious problem with how someone's playing the game, if the way they're playing is ruining the game for you or anyone else, that should be brought up with them first. Tone doesn't carry over text very well, so it's easy for someone to be joking or just having fun and someone to take it as harsh or insulting or to be hurt by it. And that's not something that should garner the reactions of a. ignoring it or b. voting the person in question off, at least not without first letting them know what's going on and giving them a chance to respond to it. Obviously dead players can't do that, but the GMs, the IM, and the living players can and they should. Some of this has already been said before, but some of it hasn't so I wanted to put it out there. And honestly, after this game I'm not sure I want to play another AN either. I didn't survive past D1 this game, but I can't help wondering what I would have found waiting for me in the dead doc if I had.
  2. Quintessential
    If only I hadn't died C1... Out of curiosity, who were my fellow elims? I know Plum was Ash and I'm pretty sure Taupe was Lotus, but who were Scarlet, Fuchsia, and Coral? Also, @Condensation now that all the votes are in I suppose it's fine to say that my original guess for you was Pearl Chameleon, but I have no idea whether that's actually right lol
  3. Quintessential
    Er... am I allowed to say before the reveal? idk if that's against the rules or not
  4. Quintessential
    I think it's more that anonymity wasn't maintained among the newest generation of players (myself included). I guessed who several people were right off the bat because I've played with them a lot recently. Also. I had a guess for Connie. I assumed she'd be playing, since she usually does. I'm... not sure if I was right though XD
  5. Quintessential
    yeahhhh I don't have much to say about the game for reasons that are obvious if you know who I was XD
  6. Quintessential
    @TJ Shade (instead of quoting because that's a long post and I'm responding to all of it) I guess I didn't think about any of it that way, but that makes a lot of sense. I was the dead elim who didn't mind if Breaker went ahead with it, but in retrospect that was because a. I'd more or less checked out of the game after C2, before I even died and b. after I died Breaker and I had an OOG PM going where he told me his plans and I smiled and nodded and said nothing because I was dead. So I already knew about the plan to gamethrow when it came up as an actual issue, and I'd been told in a setting where I didn't feel like I could argue with it, at a time when I didn't really want to. That being said, having checked out of the game I wasn't thinking about the other players as a whole, so I... yeah, I want to apologize for being fine with the game being ruined for you guys, I guess. I spent a little while being pretty frustrated with other aspects of the game, which on the one hand wasn't a conscious reason that I said I was fine with Breaker's idea, but on the other hand I should have realized that other people might be similarly frustrated with something like this... So, I'm sorry.
  7. Quintessential
    I... did? I don't remember doing that... Yet another reason to hope I get vil next time. Congratulations to Illwei and Matrim for being right about things XD Also kudos to Breaker for lasting as long as he did... I thought we would lose immediately when three of us died in consecutive cycles, but Breaker managed to hang on for quite a while. Nice first elim game! Also, apparently Ash's D1 kill analysis is, in fact, quite good--both games he's done it, the final list included 3/4 of the elim team. I'm just glad you guys didn't listen to it this time lol
  8. Quintessential
    Okay time for questions about rules: Are the Thief and the Non-Rithmatist unique roles, or can there be more than one of each? If/when a Non-Rithmatist gets a Shadowblaze, do they consume the Shadowblaze in the process of becoming a Rithmatist, or do they keep it and add 1 to the camp's defense? It says the strength of the camp's Defense resets every Night; what does it reset to? Does the Lantern inform you of how much defense the camp had every night, or just the ones that you have the Lantern for (that is, does it tell you the Defense strength for past Nights once you get it)? Can you be protected from the effects of trying to grab a Gun when too many other people also try? (if someone uses a Line of Forbiddance on you that turn, for example). Are deaths from the Wild Chalkling Hoard or from a Gun free-for-all differentiated from other attacks in the write-up? If you have a Specialization in Lines of Vigor (so your target wouldn't realize they were roleblocked) but you target someone whose action would give them information (Spring-Powered Crab, Line of Making, etc.) it... would still be obvious to that person that they were roleblocked, right? They won't be fed false info or anything? I think that's all for now. @Sart
  9. Quintessential
    I'm in! I'll play as Nicole Cooper, though idk how much RPing I'll... actually do... since it's been years since I read the Rithmatist.
  10. Quintessential
    So there are two votes on me now to Dannex's three. I likely won't be on for the rest of the cycle (scheduling two chem labs and two chem tests for the same day is not something I recommend to anyone). I would self-pres but like I said, it seems unlikely to me that Dannex was bussing Striker last cycle, so he's more or less cleared in my eyes and I won't contribute to voting him off.
  11. Quintessential
    Er... no? I was elim in MR47, but other than that I haven't been since QF48.
  12. Quintessential
    Well you just said you'd be gone for 1.5 hours but I'll respond now anyway : P. The fact that I'm more "mayory" than in my other village games is because my other village games were MR46 (where I operated mostly in PMs and ended up pocketed by an elim), LG72 (where I tried to do the same minus being pocketed but you had already set up your own PM web and I couldn't compete, and then I died C3), and QF49, the first village game that I played where I didn't have PMs, but where I died to the C1 exe. Basically, either I did my "mayoring" in PMs or I didn't get the chance. Here, there are no PMs and I wasn't killed off C1. Also, I'm still gaining confidence with the whole forum mafia thing. It would make sense for me to be less outspoken in my second game than in my sixth, right? Also, it's not like I haven't flip-flopped before; prime example would be LG72 D1, which I believe I already mentioned. I voted, unvoted, voted, unvoted Connie all in one cycle. And it's not like it was read as village then either. Everyone said it looked elim then too, iirc. Is there anything in this game that doesn't stem from meta behavior and confusion at this point? At the time I made that post we hadn't "all agreed" that those things weren't credible. I'd pointed them out individually last cycle, and each time I did a couple of people said they were decent points, but not enough to exe Dannex on their own. So, I decided that if people wouldn't listen to the things I'd noticed individually, which I found quite frustrating, I'd compile them into one post. Iirc Illwei looked into the votes and pointed out that most of the people on Dannex at the end were on him earlier in the cycle. They may have switched around a couple of times, but it was likely that at least one of the people who was vote-maniped was on Dannex when they were vote-manipped, rather than someone else. Additionally, there was still a vote-manip on him this cycle, which makes me think that someone wanted to save Dannex two cycles in a row. Obviously not fool-proof logic, but the circumstances taken together certainly made it look like someone was removing votes from him on purpose, multiple cycles in a row. I'd certainly love to exe someone based on solid evidence for once, but I didn't and don't see any, so I went with the next best thing I had, which was all the odd little coincidences around Dannex.
  13. Quintessential
    Oh! I actually haven't changed my vote yet, thank you for reminding me. Dannex. I'd argue with the rest of that but since I haven't been "telling a story" and I'm not sure what you see in my posts that makes you think I have, I don't know how to.
  14. Quintessential
    Yes, I'm a she. As for the rest, I've been "pushing a narrative", or rather a theory, that made sense to me. Given the voting patterns and the pattern of vote-manips around Dannex, I was pretty sure he was elim. But yeah, that theory just got "hammahed" as you so eloquently put it. What would you have me do, continue to maintain that Dannex is elim and must have been starting a train on Striker to clear up the suspicion on himself? I mean, if that's what it was then it worked, but I don't find that likely tbh. Especially since Dannex and I were elims last game, and he argued quite strongly against all of the busses that I suggested and carried out. It seems like a very unlikely strategy for him to spearhead.
  15. Quintessential
    No, see my previous post : P I cannot think of a single game when my tinfoil actually worked.
  16. Quintessential
    I mean, when has my tinfoiling ever gotten me anywhere? In MR46 it lead a mechanically outed elim to survive for like five cycles (hi Gears!) while I mistrusted like three vanilla villagers who were just trying to help me. In LG72 I... I mean I voted Connie, unvoted her, voted her again, unvoted her again, and then voted Dannex who turned out to be the Truthless. In QF49 I died C1 but I definitely had some minor tinfoil to munch on in terms of you being elim (which obviously you weren't). And my other past games were elim games. Basically, tinfoil has proven to be... not great for me or anyone else so I'm trying to avoid it.
  17. Quintessential
    It makes sense. The alternative is to believe that the whole interaction between Dannex and Striker was an elaborate bus attempt, which is too tinfoily even for my tastes : P
  18. Quintessential
    Well, but me and you and Lotus and Lum are all the same person, remember? so technically RNG put you and Burnt together by putting Lotus and Burnt together!
  19. Quintessential
    I mean, if I were to enter into role speculation I'd say that I wouldn't be surprised if one of the less powerful scanning roles, like White or Red, was only present on the elim team. But I also wouldn't be surprised if there were two of each, one elim or one village, or even if there were three of one of them. So I guess you're... probably right that this is basically pointless. Edit: and no @Illwei before you say anything I'm not going to respond to your suspicion of me, because there's... not much I can say, and really I don't blame you. I did high-key defend Striker last cycle, and I definitely tunneled on Dannex, and I was wrong on the first count and almost certainly wrong on the second count, unless Striker was a very elaborate bus which I doubt. I'd offer to roleclaim but my role is unimportant enough that I doubt it would help. Edit edit: Me: I'm not going to respond to your suspicion of me. Also me: *immediately responds to your suspicion of me.*
  20. Quintessential
    I mean, yeah that makes sense to me. Brown is... arguably less powerful (in theory) for village than it is for elims, since elims can share the information they learn with their teammates, which means it has more of an effect. Especially combined with info that said teammates collect, and what they already know about their team. Of course, now that we have two outed Browns, at least one of whom is (now, apparently) confirmed village, that's a bit different. Also I guess we know who the Yellow(s) are protecting tonight, huh.
  21. Quintessential
    Oh. Somehow I'd missed that. Yeahhhh I guess I don't really blame you. I managed to tunnel on Dannex... and then be convinced not to... and then tunnel on him again... (sorry Dannex!!!). Does this mean Burnt is an elim? I thought that was what that meant but then I also thought for sure Dannex was elim so idk how great my judgement on that is. Edit: though I should really have learned not to trust my judgement a long time ago, tbf. Just ask Gears. Or Matrim.
  22. Quintessential
    I... I'm sorry, I must have missed Illwei's post. Could you link to it or summarize it or something?
  23. Quintessential
    I think what was meant was actually "not having evidence for elim" is not the same thing as "having evidence for town", which was the state of affairs when that post was made iirc. I've been... kinda following along.
  24. Quintessential
    I... jeez I'm discovering that I don't like QFs very much. This is actually exhausting. The exe was solidly for Dannex when I left to eat lunch five minutes before the end of the cycle and then when I got back suddenly it was for Ash. Or, rather, it was tied between Dannex and Ash. This is... disturbing to me, given this is the second time this has happened. Following along with this game is exhausting, both because of the large amount of posts (which are partly my fault, I know) but mainly, for me, apparently nothing happens during the first 23 hours and 55 minutes of the cycle actually matters. I just... y'know, I actually try with my posts analyzing votes and vote-manips and what people are saying but it's getting harder and harder to convince myself it's worth it when no matter how much evidence or how strong a case I can find against someone, in the last five minutes of the cycle the vote unexpectedly shifts to someone else on whom we have nothing. I mean, I know QFs are supposed to be more fun and chaotic but I'm finding this pattern really frustrating. I'm... gonna put my thoughts on Dannex here, since I feel like if there isn't enough evidence to exe him now there never will be, and then I think I'm gonna go offline for a while. - he is one of two confirmed Brown Ajahs in this game, and we assume the elims have at least one. - both cycles, whenever it's looked like he might end up exed, a countertrain on someone with virtually no evidence against them has miraculously sprung up in literally minutes, which is just... astonishing even on its own. - after C1, two votes had been removed from Dannex, and after C2 one vote was. - there are also all kinds of things in terms of reads that people have pointed out at various times: possible scumslips, risky plans, agressiveness... idk whether those are AI, and I thought they were vil-indicative for him if anything at the beginning of this game, but the more I've seen the less and less I've thought that. None of this in and of itself is enough to exe Dannex, but when you take it all together it shows a clear pattern. Just... please, think about it for a second instead of voting off of slight gut reads again. I'm... yeah, I'm gonna take a break from this for a little while. I'll probably be back before the end of the cycle, but...
  25. Quintessential
    I mean, I kinda told him to do that lol but yeah, makes sense. I'm not super concerned about Ash atm but Illwei and Mat are both pinging me super hard for just... randomly throwing out votes with no given reasoning? and not just because a couple of those votes were on me. James I think is village, just because of the amount of effort he's putting into solving and the various controversial stances he's come up with, but admittedly that could also be a playstyle thing.
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