|TJ|

Yeah tbh, one of the reasons I voted in the end was I could prove it. Szeth Err, I know my vote doesn't mean anything but well, it's an indication that this is where it'd go.

Okay I'm achieving nothing with this but Szeth. There's no danger of three way tie now. If it lands back on Szeth it's 4-3. On others: 4-2-2 If I die, SEND SOMEONE TO TALK TO ME okay pls? And keep an eye out for activity if someone comes to kill me. And note that Quinn did not want to tie it. And aaaaa no time note Illwei/Szeth but not so much cause Szeth has been trying to kill Illwei. Okay? Possible bai.

Like the way you're saying with confidence what your past self might have done if you had read the previous cycles. Your making your past self look good by saying you would have done x y and z.

See - I don't like this. I don't like how you're painting your past self in good light. @Quintessential, up for a tie? Edit: Explanation - like the way you're saying in a 100% confident way that had you been more active your thinking would have been the way and followed the same path as it did this cycle when you retracted.

It's not the tunnel for me, it's the retraction, retracting and voting on a totally different kind of target and especially the retrospective "I didn't read them elim". Can we have a tie between them?

3 out of 12 which is 1/4 :P. Edit: 1/4 chance of a 4 way tie and yeah 1/12 chance that I'll die.

Mkay thanks Szeth Paraphrasing GM PM - TJ: How does my random voting works? Can it land on me or the person I am already voting? GMs: It's random to all - It includes you and the person you originally voted on

Okaaaay I believe this is close enough to the rollover to inform y'all of this and I wasn't planning on doing this in this cycle if the votes weren't so close. I'm the Navigator and now that Airship Bridge has been destroyed, henceforth, my vote is random. Vote randomization works this way - this random vote can fall back on the person voted and it can fall back on myself. Basically everyone alive is fair game. As such, as of now, there's a 1/4 chance that if I keep my vote as it is, it may land on me, Illwei or RandBy creating a 4 way tie. So I'm kinda confused as what to do, cause if I retract my vote (it doesn't vote randomly then) it's a three way tie between Szeth, Az and Devotary, 2/3 I'm fine with killing. Optimum move for me would be to wait if there's any further changes and then retract my vote in the end when I'm sure there won't be any changes. If things stand as it is, I'll be retracting my vote in self-preservation (never thought I'd be hearing that sentence from someone, much less saying it xD) at the end of the cycle.

What?? I'm attacking an argument which I found flawed for all the reasons which I've given? I've asked questions here for everyone who suspects Devotary questions to ask themselves here and here Why can't I attack an argument which I find flawed and defend someone who I believe is village? Why is that seen as pocketing and how do you, specifically, differentiate pocketing from a villager defending someone who they believe is village?

Okaaaay well. Here's the OoA meaning... ...elims should have known or anticipated that Jon would be revived as 'all other actions' are before 'attacks'. In that case, it still doesn't make sense for elim!Devotary to revive Jon because elims could have happily kept him in the hospital 'cause that counts for their wincon, and gone for another target meaning then they'd have reduced 2 villagers as compared to one right now. Devotary, did Jon say anything of note in the doc?

Gears, this whole theory stands on the fact that you are assuming what the elim team will or will not do. Since you're arguing it from your point of view, I'll assume you're village for the whole argument. You do not know the elim team composition. You don't know the way they think or why they did what they did. You cannot assume they follow what you believe is the ideal path for them to follow, and hence it's not a good idea to vote because of what you think the elims should have done. We can speculate sure, and base hunches of our expected elim team moves but here you base the whole argument that elims noticed Devotary being inactive, presumed she was the doctor, and optimally should attack her despite them noticing she might have a Sak. Why not go to the opposite end of the argument? Why would elim!Doctor!Devotary heal Jon? You may say that it might be to earn village cred - you know, Doctor healing a villager is easy village cred. BUT why would elims then attack the same person she was healing? It's a waste of the previous cycle kill, which they cannot afford to waste because they did not kill in C1. Also, your elim!Navigator theory falls short because they just sabotaged the navigator's place and they have no reason to do this if there was a Navigator on their team because a. according to you they are using to target their teammates to clear them and they could have continued to do so and b. if not, target information are important to them too. [Aannnnd I just read your sidenote but I'll keep this anyway ] So my main argument against Devotary elimination -> Why would an elim Doctor go to heal an elim kill? Why would the elim kill be submitted on the heal target? Why would an elim doctor heal in the first place? I get trying to obtain village cred, but they've already missed one cycle's kill. Explain these questions and I'll entertain the ideaof elim!Doctor!Devotary. In the meantime, I should probably go back and check Devotary's posts in relation to the doctor argument to see if she was pro-heal or anti-heal. Also, why aren't we checking to see who else was completely inactive during the cycle, cause that's possibly the person to have submitted the elim kill right? Or can elims kill inside the hospital without...entering it? I'm sorry I've been a little passive during the game, I'll be honest I was feeling a bit meh, but seeing something I've got to argue perked me up a little :P. Reads: Only village reads are Quinn and Gears. Slightly village lean on Illwei. I was leaning elim on Mat but my elim team composition guess (will talk about this later) doesn't make sense with Mat in it. So I'm either wrong about the composition guess or about Mat :P. Elim reads include Szeth and Azmine (I still haven't heard how I was talking without seeming useful at all), and Biplet (hey, you've been agreeing with me a bit and it's making me side-eye you :P) Elim team composition is, according to me, made a majorly or wholly relatively new players. This is because of the sabotage and kill choices mainly. I've almost hard clearing Quinn here because I don't see how a team with Quinn on it would have chosen the tie thing as the C1 sabotage target as she was clear she found Navigator and... Biologist? way more important, and a team with her on it would have target those first. Same thing with Mat, I'd assume he would have noted their importance and targeted them earlier. Edit: I don't think this is true. @DeTess/ @StrikerEZ?

Retrospective "I didn't feel like they were an elim" is an elim indication imo. And the retraction from Illwei after tunneling on them hard for the first three cycles is too quick and too easy for my liking, especially when the next vote is on someone who is inactive. For comparison, on one side we have Illwei on whom they made compelling arguments to find her suspicious and now we have....the opposite of that with someone totally inactive. I find it weird that they voted for someone they built a case with at one time and then voted for one without any reasoning, it lacks consistency and shows Randby as an easy vote. Szeth Pancakes

Yeaah, this really ain't it. It really reads like what Illwei says below. That line of thinking is very much self preservative in the season that it's likely to have come from an elim mindset. You aren't thinking of catching elims or finding suspicion. You seem to care more about how you look when someone flips and it definitely feels like a vote to make you look good. Tani also fits the profile of a team that might go for the tied vote thing to sabotage rather than going for Lab or Brig or Navigator in C1.

Well, you always like souvenirs from games so I figured you'd grab yourself a couple of birds :P. Defense it itself is not suspicious but I found it weird that you were willing to go back and forth in her defense, so early in the game. It was like you were defending yourself. QF51 part is basically reading Illwei as village and trying to pocket her and trying to act like you're sheeping her like you did in QF51. That sentence about Archer was me disagreeing with the reasonings for Archer vote and disagreeing that that would be seen as elimy and basically saying that I'm not interested in Archer elimination. Why do you think I feel like QF51!TJ? Can you give an example for this? I'm trying to be a bit light-hearted this game but I feel 'not saying anything useful' is harsh because the Gears-Quinn discussion was spurned by my vote on Gears and no one thought on mentioning Devotary's visit to Aviary.

Hmm, so Mat bluffed about the 99% or he did not visit the Aviary in the first two cycles. Interesting.... :P. Hey hey, this is a pretty good reason: Shoulda just told it when voting :P. By the way, how are the Kukupa Twins? :P.

oh huh @DeTess/@StrikerEZ, you cannot choose the bird you want? :/

Mat re: last cycle, last post. Shoulda given some reasoning smh :P. Okayokay so there's a 1/3 possibilty that Devotary went for.... the thing that prevents tracking. In that case, I think it'd be good for Navigator to target them again to see if she's able to be tracked because going for the tracking preventable burd is sus and optimally, villager should not go for it unless they're Trapper but there's no evidence of a Trapper (and Connie's not playing the game :P) And @Quintessential, I don't suppose there's a way you could let us know if your scan worked without revealing if there's Brig fella who protected you? Mainly asking if you scanned Gears and got to know his alignment.

Opportunistic as in voting for someone is a very easy reason to vote on someone without raising suspicion, and elims have voted on Gears claiming elim before because he claimed elim. But your posts since this post gives me strong gut village vibes, Jondesu. C'monnn I'd be a lot more happier and chirpy if I was the Agent :P. And probably accept bid on parts to improve :P. Frame you how? :P. Reading Illwei as Agent too, and this would fit the profile :P. Exp was online 2 hrs ago, so I'm thinking he took a visit to Hospital without fully knowing the consequences? Or something? Not sure why he wouldn't defend himself if he could. Don't really have strong reads on any other than Quinn, Jon and slightly on Szeth. Elim side of things - everything about Mat looks super off to me. Archer was a very proactive elim in the Marson and not convinced talking less is an alignment indicative. Mat, particularly the defence of Illwei. Feels like my teammate Mat from QF51 :P.

Okay this is actually smart, but now I'm pondering if that was indeed your original plan or did you come up with after the slip was noticed. My thinking was, in this scenario the elims motive would be to pocket village!you by saying "hey this person is important. protect them" and when they reveal that this person is important, then that information becomes public knowledge, so them attacking you would not be suspicious then because everyone else knows you're important. Besides, anyone who tried could have narrowed your actions to roleblock, scan or elim kill tbh. My main point against Gears though, was he immediately assumed you were village and asked for protecting you, which he's now claiming to be a part of the plan. Fair enough, also, if by chance no one blocks Quinn and she survives, we can get to know Gears' alignment. Gears Jondesu's voting seems very opportunistic. I think your D1 vote was that he portrayed an elim? Gears claiming elim is NAI and I think others have stated this.

Why are y'all mentioning Tracker for Trapper?? xD Had me confused there for a while. I'm reading Tani as the Agent right now, though I don't see any reason to kill her over it until we see an uptick in the no. of improved parts. Gears uses the word "logic" here meaning he worked it out rather than the action having a visible effect on him. Interestingly, Gears immediately assumes Quinn is village and makes no indication that any role Quinn might have is NAI OR the fact that Quinn could have been the one to submit the elim kill, rather requesting that she should be protected. This reads very much as TMI on Quinn as village to me. Gears

Well, why aren't you voting for him then?

Not so much concerned with oversharing information about actions as I am with using information to appear as villagery. Exactly what TUO did in LG73 when he announced he'd be protecting the camp and we all read him village for it.

So in this case you're assuming the elims have one of their own in the hospital? Then, we'd have narrowed down the list of possible elims to the ones in the hospital. And I think forcing elims to kill the same person again is a good thing, it's like they'd have a double life which would only prolong their path to a win. This looks weird because Order says he's suspicious but makes it look like poke vote, especially with "won't stick" part. The agent ofc <3 :P. And this is what ticks me off everyone single time - being overly information reveal-y about self actions and seeming helpful just like in LG73. Also sorta like Books in the last LG. The Unknown Order As mentioned before, agreed. Hehehe I was about to say "I might do this" then realized that's actively gamethrowing :P. Engineers can repair the improved part and the improvement will be lost and have to be reapplied. So we have a way to prevent Agent victory as well, provided we have a Engineer on our side, which I think we do.

@Illwei, and I shall pass along the best [read: strongest] bottle of alcohol from Al's cabinet, both to chug when people are giving headache and to smash the bottle on top of their heads :P. Don't forget to schlur your schpeech :P.

Yellow! First game in a while and first game with the shortened name! (what is it with forums and mandatory minimum 3 character display names? -.-) I don't completely agree with this tbh. Cycles with one kill other than elimination are guaranteed to be the elim kill so we'll have an almost confirmed villager involved in the discussion. Also, it's the compromise of one cycle of silence of the doctor to get a player back to talk permanently (well, until they're killed again at least). Docs gotta be smart to choose which cycle/whom to revive and which they cycle they need to speak but writing off docs as unimportant is a no for me. Also, roles are revealed on hospitalization so players can be revived if their roles are deemed too important too. Now about visiting the hospital, I feel like dead people will have something important to say (like I would have revealed you were a Messenger had the hospital not been sabotaged in the last rerun of the game :P) but I think the best way to go about is everyone who enters the hospital to leave their thoughts until they're dismissed permanently, and for us to visit the hospital in mid-game to see what's posted so far and let the thread know. Visiting the hospital also has another use in that we can narrow the elim kill if one of them uses it to kill someone else permanently (@StrikerEZ @DeTess, rules show only Trapper kills and Doctor heals as actions to be taken in the hospital, but I assume elim kill is one too? Or is it not?)