Snakenaps

I disagree and I think you're rad. You did give good evidence. I'm proud of you. This is exactly what I wanted. Readers connect to characters because they can relate/not relate to them. You explained that, with words, using your own "funds of knowledge." Funds of knowledge is a teaching term that refers to everything you know, you've experienced, and you love/hate. You used that as evidence on why you reacted that way. And you did it well. You've given me a lot to think about, even if you don't realize that. Thank you.

Ultimately it is up to you, but if you feel so strongly about this, this might not be the writing group for you. What works for one person may not fit another, and that's okay. There may be another match out there that suits you better. It's kind of like dating, no? There's no harm in realizing there is no chemistry and that you can find your perfect match elsewhere. Again, up to you, but I compiled a list of writing groups that you may be able to better suited audience at: Absolute Write Water Cooler Critique Circle Chronicles TheNextBigWriter DestructiveReaders (and other writing groups on Reddit) Scribophile Critters Writers Workshop The Internet Writing Workshop There's also a million Facebook groups as well. Happy writing!

You know how to read a story. Therefore, arguably, you know everything, even if you don't yet have words to describe what your gut tells you. Lemme push you: why does she feel younger, and does it add/detract from the story?

I've been a bit busy to respond to everyone's comments but...you demanded, so I answer. This was a HUGE problem in Draft One/Two that I haven't fixed correctly yet in the opening of Draft Three. You may have already noticed this. There are three types of creatures: Civilized - Any talking creature capable of feeling compassion and able to invent. Humans, unicorns, griffins, talking cows, most of the cast. Mundane - Any animal incapable of talking and advanced speech. A typical animal like on Earth. Insects, fish, dolphins, and whales are always mundane. Fey - Any talking creature unable to feel compassion and unable to invent. Trapped in the Feylands. Sphinxes, baku, fairies, and trolls are all examples of Fey. Hated and feared, regarded as demonic monsters. There are civilized - talking - cows. There are mundane - -non-talking - cows. These are seen as two completely separate creatures, as taught by their religion. So a human eating a mundane animal? No big deal. A human eating a civilized creature? Essentially cannibalism. That's essentially the really short version without getting into the religious aspect. I've been thinking about shifting biological aspects slightly (for instance, horses have a pretty limited diet that I expand upon for copious food descriptions) that would be fairly obvious beyond behavior (extra muscles for smiling and such, maybe a slight difference in size). Either way...is there room for some really freaky murder where a restaurant unknowingly feeds a civilized creature to unexpecting guests...yes, yes there is. Is this one of the major foundational cracks, along with the governments and Sue's inconsistent personality? Yes, yes it is. Twenty, yup. She is about to turn 21. Something I need to sneak in is that - as with many earlier cultures - she's actually been drinking watered down wine since she was 10-12 before moving onto the real stuff. Possibly even earlier considering the culture of the restaurant. Drinking water wasn't always safe (especially during wartime), but wine is. I should have her kiss him on the lips. You're right. I'm just a coward and rushed this entire chapter because I was running away as much as Ir.

Thoughts as I go: Pg 1, "'Get to it,' she snapped" I worry that this new POV character is going to be as abrasive as Q, but I'll withhold judgement for the moment. I mean, I'd be annoyed if someone woke me up from my nap too. Pg 1, " his irises were pure red instead of his entire eye" Confused. Does this mean species P have solid red eyes? Pg 1, "You’re not even trying." Trying what? To scare the employees worse or to pretend to be happy? Or something else? Pg 1, " I barely have a week of time off" V's motivation: to actually relax. What's going to do wrong to prevent that? Pg 2, "we would just bring C in and hunt him again?" Who? What is C? Some kind of spiritual tracker? Pg 2, "Didn’t want to waste the souls." Powers supported by souls? Nice. Where do the souls come from? Random people, criminals? If she didn't want to waste them, that hints at a touch of humanity. How many souls does it take to fight? If Q was so important, why was she unwilling to use souls on the risk of losing Q? What is she willing to use souls for, then? Pg 2, "He’ll be executed publicly" Lies Pg 2, "Now I believe we are almost at your quarters." Rather on the nose, unless they've never been on this ship before? I mean, I never say to my best friend, "Gee, we're almost to my apartment!" when we've both been there a million times. Pretty sure both V and E have been here before. Pg 3, "I see you only a few times a year." Talk about a long distance relationship. Pg 3, "Her skin color went back to normal" Normal as in chocolate colored? Confused. V is already more intriguing and empathic than Q. She's hard on the outside, but soft for her wife. Assumablely, she's good at what she does (fight?) but not perfect (got beat by Q). She has a weakness (her wife) that is relatable (most readers have felt some kind of love) with a good, if-temporary motivation (have a good time with her wife). Pg 4, "I’ve explained this before" If you've never heard of "maid and butler" dialogue, this is a perfect time to learn. A quiet chapter. Not much happened, but it was a rather breath of fresh air compared to action action action. Plently more allusions with no explanations, but at this point I think proper re-introductions might be in order for many things. Having a reader intrigued and wanting more is good. Having a reader confused and feeling like everything is happening around them without involving them is not good. Points for giving description on setting. If I'm rooting for Q to hang, then I'll be disappointed if C dies. Pg 7, "She quickly wore her mask" Wait, hold up, I thought the mask earlier was metaphorical. Apparently she actually wears a mask. Why? What does it look like? Pg 8, "his space powers" With all of your creativity and vivid imagination, I know you can do better than "space powers." Pg 8, “Morning requires the sun to be up.” Okay, this chapter is moving incredibly slowly. I'm skimming now. You've shown understanding (although maybe not intentionally?) of "In late, out early" but not here. Pg 8, "your break is ending early." Something is happening? Finally? Pg 9, "It’s just a small resistance. Nothing the local forces can’t handle." Resisting what??? The only thing I've seen worth resisting is a bit of poverty (the beggars) and Q, who is a thief anyway. And if the local forces can handle it, then after 400 years you'd think V knew when to shut the door and say, "Shove off, I'm on break with my wife." You don't call in the special forces for a protest the local cops can handle. I have no clue what the scene with RB was supposed to signify besides, "Look, V's mother-in-law is also a god and wants to be called by her first name." I can already hear Kais going on rants about arc and purpose from when my chapters have fallen in this same hole. Pg 11, "The shuttle opened to a rain of plasma fire." Good getting in late. Pg 11, “Um, what’s your rank?” What??? He knows her name, shouldn't he know her rank? I mean, shouldn't everyone know the AoD's rank? Why does it matter anyway??? Pg 12, "she walked between the now slow-moving bolts" So she's willing to use souls to speed up instead of finding cover, but not fight Q? Aaaaaand nothing is a struggle. Again. You've lost me. There's nothing satisfying in watching a character I have minimal emotional attachment to just wipe out enemy soldiers fighting for...????... with complete ease. I'm skimming, because this is just a play-by-play of her destroying everyone with no worries other than how many souls it takes when people are constantly dying around her. I mean, when I think finally she's at a disadvantage, she just...heals. Pg 15, "Pretty sure the local forces can handle that without you." So why are either of you there???? I'm struggling to figure out why whatever M is hiding must be important. Like, why should I care? Doesn't threaten anything as far as I am aware. Despite M's rudeness, V isn't worried about M or the J overthrowing her command. Haven't seen any hints that she doesn't trust her government. Well, pay close attention to this reaction: the only reason I am critiquing this is because @Mandamon guilted me into one last try. Right now, I think you've got your walls up so high that we can't truly help you, but I also believe you have the strength and intelligence to improve if you stop treating this writing group like "them vs me." There's a difference between letting people walk all over you and violently swinging any time someone tries to help. Changing the little things won't fix your big issues. I did not want to critique more, because, as I have mentioned before, I believe that your time (and mine) is better well spent fixing the foundations on this open gushing wound rather than continually sticking brightly colored band-aids on it. I don't want to help you slap on band-aids, I want to help you learn how to stitch up this story until you have something so gorgeous that there won't even be a scar. Instead of asking, "Why should I listen to this person?" maybe you should try instead of, "How can I improve my characters/plot/pacing?" I know you are already doing so - you were trying to listen to Sanderson's lectures, even if they were anxiety-inducing. If someone has a problem is XYZ, why not ask (whether you believe they are right or wrong), "Do you have any resources that can help me learn to get better?" Because no matter how good something can be now, it can always be improved. Look at Sanderson: a $6 million dollar author who is continually fighting to improve himself and his work, even though all he would have to do is pump out the same old things to continue making the big bucks. I'm willing to help you with resources, with education. I replied to the Lounge with some alternatives to Sanderson's lectures, remember? When it comes to @Robinski, @kais, @shatteredsmooth, @Mandamon, and @Silk, when they speak, you take notes. Why? Because they have the experience to actually know what they are talking about. Because they've lived in your shoes, and mine, and have more experience than either of us have in our pinky finger combined. Does this mean that they are always correct? No. But 98% of the time they are, especially when they are all saying the same things. I am not saying worship them, I am saying to be mindful, because the last thing you want to do is alienate the best teachers here. I am here to learn. You are here to learn. Let's learn together, yes?

First sub!!! So exciting!!! Thoughts as I go: Pg 1, "stubbornness succeeds over logic" I didn't realize my sister was going to be in this story Pg 1, " a never-ending cycle of necessary precaution." Hmmm, so what happens when you don't bury the dead, and is it a magical reason or a superstitious/religious reason? Pg 1, " started towards the decomposing houses that lay in the center of the desolate little village nearby." Dang, vivid setting for me. I can already picture them leaning, falling over. What happened? Decomposing houses doesn't scream war to me. Starvation? Plague? Pg 1, "like the earth had never been obstructed" Well, unless there's grass and weeds growing on top, newly dug dirt is obvious. Unless he used a plowed field for a grave. Pg 1, "He preferred it this way." I am definitely assuming at this point this isn't his home. Lacking the emotional punch for that. Is he some kind of priest running around dilapidated villages burying the dead? Or is there another reason? It doesn't appear that he killed all of these people... Pg 2, "sending him further into obscurity." Hmmm...does this mean he fears being forgotten? Further into obscurity already tells me he isn't some legendary gravekeeper. Possible motivation: fame? Pg 2, "A disgraceful death for a disgraceful father’s son," Depressing outlook. Perhaps burying bodies is his way of looking for honor? Another possible motivation? Pg 2, "This has got to be the nicest village we’ve stayed in yet," Dang, what did the bad ones look like then? Why are they hopping from destroyed village to destroyed village? What is destroying everything? I have a lot of questions, but these aren't bad ones. These are the ones that keep me reading, looking for answers. Pg 2, "His smirk was winsome," Since K's brother is dead, then this is either friend or lover. I'd love a hint on clothing. Clothing can tell you a lot about a setting: hot, cold, humid, which cultures it is inspired by. Names and reference to outer robes and buns are giving me a more Asian feel than Medieval England, which I am all behind. That, or I've been playing too much Ghost of Tsushima and it's bleeding over. I may be biased. Pg 2, " The village was a polished gem in a pile of fresh dung" Ooof, says something about the world if this place looks promising. Pg 2, "it had the potential to be worth something but at what cost?" Stylistic pondering...would it be more powerful as, "it had the potential to be worth something. But at what cost?" Make the reader pause. There's no right or wrong here, this is just me thinking. Pg 3, “Do you wonder what killed them in this village?” Oooh, this is good information. This is what I was wondering. I didn't get an answer, which turns this into a mystery. Is this the same thing that has happened at the other villages they have visited? Pg 3, " if we knew how they died we could learn from their mistakes" Example: if everyone died from poisoned well water...don't drink the poisoned well water. Pg 3, "the living were a whole different story." Cynical, depressed bugger, isn't he? My pessimistic, introverted side responds well to K. I can feel his numb, exhausted apathy in my bones. Pg 4, "more heavily in areas where people had lived" Not ash. Did the people disintegrate? The mystery pulls me forward. Pg 4, "more heavily in areas where people had lived" So something is killing the people, leaving black dust, but not necessarily killing the livestock... Pg 4, "Did deer migrate? " Good question. I had to Google this. Turns out, whitetail and mule deer do migrate. Huh. Did not know this. Pg 5, "But he hasn’t wielded a sword in some time." Ex-soldier or mercenary? So he could have had the ability to kill the villagers (although maybe not all of them), but it wasn't him. Still, he has the ability to defend himself. Does this mean N has the same background? Or a different skill set? Pg 5, " Curiosity is the cousin" This is a good saying. Wish I had come up with this. Pg 6, "Step." I am assuming K is taking this step and not the retreating person who doesn't seem capable of walking. Pg 6, " she was discernibly not okay." I feel like this is a wee clunky and not necessary, considering you go on to vividly describe her next. Pg 6, “Ask her what happened.” Is N still back in the tree? Why doesn't he just ask himself? Unless....I don't think N is a ghost.... Pg 6, "container of water from his bag" Opportunity for worldbuilding! Is it a gourd? A leather flask? A metal flask? Pg 6, " By something" Something with black dust??? Pg 7, "Her body was already decomposing" Is this a new twist on zombies? I am down for a new version of the undead. That entire buried village suddenly seems incredibly threatening. Pg 7, "I can help you recover" Liar. That woman is already almost dead. Pg 8, "He’d never killed a person intentionally" Hmmm, so good at the sword but not at killing? Doesn't sound ex-soldier or mercenary to me. My curiosity is piqued. Pg 9, " the black cloth concealing his skin" Fashion or foreshadowing? N hasn't interacted with the woman at all. I'm slightly convinced at this point he isn't real. Pg 11, "Yeah, probably safer that way." Agreed. Pg 12, “What if all those corpses you buried...come back?” Very valid question. Pg 12, "A smell that makes your mouth water and stomach turn." Is K a cannibal??? By intention or when forced to survive???? A repentant cannibal who hates the living and buries the dead...I can get behind this. Overall: You've got me interested. We have a bitter protagonist who may or may not be a cannibal and a definite problem: the dead are rising. I'm not sure what his motivations are yet but you've hinted that he definitely has them. There appears to be a depth to K's character. In contrast, N I am still getting a feel for, and his lack of animation and interaction with anything other than K (outside of climbing a tree) makes me wonder if he is actually a figment of K's imagination. I struggle with the setting, as there isn't enough definitive description to give me an idea of what kind of biome/technological scale I'm in. There are many different places oak trees can exist. Plus, giving us character/clothing descriptions help. I know men wear their hair in buns, but, again, that could work for any fantasy culture. I'm still leaning Asian-inspired, but still unsure if that is a bias of my current video game choices. However, despite the lack of setting, you've got a strong tone. It's gritty, yes, but isn't grimdark necessarily. I hate grimdark, personally, so that would have turned me off immediately. You've told me that there are clear immediate stakes: the dead K likes to hang around can rise up and kill him. However, you've left the mystery of what or who is making the dead rise and what the black dust has to do with it. If I was at a bookstore, I'd continue to Chapter Two. Good sign, there.

Likely one chapter a week moving forward...

Good ol' Mr. Bill is who told me about The Elements of Style :D

There are many other resources out there if you are looking for education. Sanderson certainly isn't the only option. If you like books, I found Orson Scott Card's Characters and Viewpoints to be helpful and I have heard great things about The Elements of Style by William Strunk Jr. and E.B. White. The website Helping Writers Become Authors has good articles you may find useful. There are the podcasts I Should Be Writing and Ditch Diggers, neither of which I have listened to because I still have 5 seasons left of Writing Excuses. I suppose it all depends on if you are trying to educate yourself about something specific, or get an overall lesson in how to write to solidify your entire writing foundation (this is my path).

Going to echo @Robinski on this one. Is it the format? I struggled with the YouTube BYU lectures because I'm not good at watching television, but I can listen to Writing Excuses until my ears bleed. The only rising blood pressure I get is Oh my God, I'm out of excuses, I've got to go write! I have so many ideas!

Yes! Thankfully, I suppose, Ir's voice is like my default writing style now, so she doesn't affect me, but the BK absolutely does. If I'm reading a book with really strong prose, my brain will feel the "rhythm" of those words for quite a long time afterwards and I'll want to speak in them. Such a bizarre feeling.

Such a good book!!! I really need to reread the series. *looks at giant stack of unread books* Eventually.

May I please have a slot for Monday, November 30th?

Everything in moderation, including moderation. That being said, which is more beneficial: grinding for hours on a video game, or reading a million books? "'A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies,' said Jojen. 'The man who never reads lives only one.'" ~ George R.R. Martin, A Dance of Dragons "Books are the plane, and the train, and the road. They are the destination, and the journey. They are home." ~Anna Quindlen, How Reading Changed My Life

Trust me, if there is one person who is going to understand that here...it's me. You wouldn't know this, but Ir started out as a fourteen year old girl with siblings who had died from a drought. A farm girl of completely different looks who ran away from her aging parents to chase dragons. It was a story where the BK was only the villain, and it ended in the dramatic death for both of them with Ir's soul trapped in a bracelet forever. She was bonded to a dragon and there was a magical sword and she was a damned Chosen One. Is that the story you are reading now, 13 years later? No, not in any way, shape, or form. I have torn this story to the ground eight times. And it came back stronger every single time, even though I cried, even though I lost so many characters and locations and stories I loved. Do you know how many sleepless nights I have had when tearing things down because they weren't right? You do not have to change anything. I will not force you. I cannot force you. No one knows the story better than you. It is a part of you that you know more intimately better than anyone here. Anyone on this dang planet. What I want you to do is to consider all courses of possibility. And if this is the one you know is right, down to your soul...good. Because I have been wrong, I will be wrong again. If you know that this is it I will shake your hand and admire your conviction. Because what every story needs is someone who will fight for it. But think for a moment...what would happen if you pushed yourself father? If you pushed Q farther...what amazing, brilliant stories could you tell, that nabbed the reader from page one and never let go? No matter what you chose to do...today, tomorrow, five years from now...keep writing, no matter how many people you butt heads with, no matter what tests come your way. Keep writing. Gods, keep writing. Don't ever let anyone take that away from you. Especially not some internet stranger

Clarification desired. He doesn't understand that what he is doing puts edges him farther away from "anti-hero" into "villain"? Does he have an inability to emphasize? Or do you mean that if he thought about what he was doing, he would become a full-on villain? Either way...I'm becoming convinced our protagonist isn't an anti-hero, but just a villain. I haven't seen any redeeming qualities so far - and that is six chapters too late. The problem with having a villain as a protagonist is that readers naturally hate villains...and protagonists are someone you are supposed to root for not against. Protagonists are supposed to be someone you like and can emphasize with, even if you don't agree with them. That's what made Breaking Bad so powerful - at the beginning you rooted for Walter White, but by the end, you found you hated his guts but wanted to protect characters like Hank. It doesn't matter how awesome the other characters are if the one you start with convinces people to set down the book before you can introduce them. You won't be able to nail an agent, let alone a reader, to the floor and beg them to keep reading, that it'll get better, you promise. I seriously think you need to sit down and fix the broken foundations of your story before you spend more time building. A skyscraper - no matter how lofty its goals - can't rise on quicksand. I feel like we keep telling you this but you aren't hearing us. A writing group will do you no good if you are unable to listen to the concerns and advice of others.

I am, for the record, not proud of myself for this.

Okay, you win. I snorted so darn hard. God, you always know how to make me laugh. My first thought to this was, "Try pinching your nose and then talking." Then my brain caught up. Honestly, when I switch voices, I literally change how I sit. Writing the BK? I wrinkle my nose nose in distaste and sit properly. W? I smirk and jut one hip out. When I practice writing for J's POV, I lean back (preferably with my feet up). I think this habit comes from drawing expressions. I make the expression I'm drawing, which sometimes leads to very interesting situations when people have thought I'm losing my marbles. Little do they know I lost them long ago.

Took me some time to think of a reply to this, because I did want to make one. I didn't think about how I wrote or designed until I came here, but I do think that it is incredibly important to learn your own personal process in creation. That way, when mistakes are made (and they inevitably are) you can look back and fix the correct broken thing instead of misdiagnosing and removing the correctly made thing. Let's take out the appendix but not the kidney, 'kay? I like metaphors, and I often compare the writing process to shipbuilding. I have been forced to sink many, many ships. But over time I've become to realize how important it is to reflect upon the process of creation. I build strong characters, but my weak plot undermined them. With the knowledge I have now, I can look backwards and know it was my lack of process towards outlining and plot building that has left me with the weaknesses I am now shoring up. I originally removed the romance, believing that to be the rotted mast, all while the plot holes were sinking my ship. Now I'm carefully patching those holes and replacing my romance mast with a (hopefully) stronger one. It's like being able to do mental math but not being sure how you're doing it. That means once you've reached an incorrect answer, you can't look back and figure out that you forgot to carry the four. Now your entire equation is screwed. It may be fun to reflect upon how you yourself make characters, which is surely different than how I make characters or how Robinski or Ginger_Reckoning or Kais or Karamel makes characters. To each their own.

I used to keep an Excel Spreadsheet of all my characters back in high school. 202 characters for one story. Two hundred and freaking two. I don't know how I was supposed to remember everyone, let alone a reader. I mean, jeez, just in NotK's outline I had nearly double the cast and I cut or combined them once I actually started writing and revising. Cut the conductor, cut the artist who painted J's cane but gave her personality to Car, cut Lemon the fast talking dragon, cut the mouse seamstress... Good characters I may reuse one day in another story, but not this one. I have too large of a cast as it is. But, dude, I love creating characters. I love thinking to myself "What am I not? What do I want to be? What am I passionate about that I can bleed over to my characters?" Just look at Ir: she's a chef. When I gave her that ability, I couldn't make anything more than grilled cheese and brown clam chowder. She pushed me to actually learn how to cook real food so I can write her well. In return, I gave her my love for family (although thankfully my sister is nothing like Sue). I don't think genius work shows up until the 100th draft XD I don't even call Sanderson's work "genius" even though I will read his books like they're crack. They're a step down in the "brilliant" category. As much I love his work, even he has many flaws and weaknesses. I think I distrust the word "genius" simply because of how often it is thrown around by reviewers. Hunger Games, Maze Runner, Twilight, The Name of the Wind, Fifty Shades of Grey...sometimes I think that the word "genius" is only applied to works that can't speak for themselves and therefore need someone to claim it for them. If your work is genius, you'll never have to say a word. Everyone will simply know.

Booooo. I can't do accents, so I'm jealous. I literally can't hear them in my head unless I am actively hearing them in real life. It's like my brain forgets what accents sound like without constant input. Which means I am always stuck in American. Californian American, I suppose, with all my dudes and rads. At least I don't say woke.

It happens. I guess climaxes just require more pages.

I'm revising as I chat with you. I'm only about one chapter ahead of submissions, but I'm hoping to quicken my process unless school goes bonkers again (which it likely will). Twelve more chapters means I should have submitted everything in time for my birthday in February...but I'm honestly hoping to have all twelve ready for submission by the end of winter break. These are all longer chapters, so sadly my time of subbing more than one chapter at a time is at an end *dramatic sigh*

Yeah, that was how I ended up giving myself a rip roaring headache after writing 7,000 words one Saturday, skipping meals and not moving from the couch. Totally threw out my back. I combat wanting to stay up all night writing by having three 2x3 foot whiteboards above my bed. They're always filled with illegible midnight half-awake notes that I then have to decipher in the morning. I wrote "yew wood" at some point and I'm still trying to jog my memory on what I meant. I miss writing highs. I don't get revising highs. I do get procrastination.

Oh my god, same. I think worldbuilding was the only think that helped me survive the dullest college class I ever had the honor of spending money. I filled sketchbooks full of ideas. Did I learn much...it was how to teach 1+1 to five year olds...so, no, I already knew how to do it. Easy A.