SirNoSell

56.2% bondsmith!

Maybe each ideal just doubles as an oath and a form of personal growth. So no real need to have ten when you 'honor' honor and cultivation in each ideal.

It's hard to explain, Stormlight is a form of gaseous investiture as it can manifest as a vapor depending on the circumstance. I'd say the easiest way to describe it is half light/half water vapor.

I do like the sound of this but last I checked spren are only native to Roshar, not Ashyn.

I don't think it would be too far-fetched a direction for him to take. Plus paired with the knowledge of his mother's death at his father's actions and the brutal engagements with the Fused, I could see him turning into a slight anti hero.

A strong part of me doesn't think this theory is accurate cos of stuff surrounding Jasnah. But I committed to it and I understand why a lot people think this detracts from the achievement but I don't see it that way. My theory does include Radiants still being able to summon and dispel armor at will as well as Honor and Cultivation's respective godmetals. I mean, if they didn't have so much attention from Shadesmar, they wouldn't be worthy right?

It can arguably make the quality of the character better, but that isn't a rule. A lot of people say that the best villians are the ones that think their heroes, Hence why Thanos is one of everyone's favourite MCU charater.

Just a small little tweak to what you put in your opening statement. I think that you're spot on with correspondence of males and females being with Honor and Cultivation respectively with the exception to Dustbringers and Willshapers. Cultivation's orders tend to focus more on growth of some kind, which is commonly manifested in scholarly pursuits, hence Willshapers and their innovation. Honor's orders tend to focus on oathkeeping, which is manifested in some directly physical and/or authority pursuit, hence Dustbringers and their guardianship.

Fair enough Ah I'm aware of that possibility but I personally believe that that was a new ability from her Transportation Surge. As the surge is of Motion and Realmatic Transition as well as the fact that I can't think of a genuine reason with the information we have that she would dismiss plate in a battle against Voidbringers. I think she's just really close like Kaladin, Dalinar and Shallan are. We can agree to disagree with this one I think.

I think your referring to Stormfather's observation of Dalinar resisting Odium rather than creating a perpendicularity. Whether the ability was a fluke or something readily available is still up in the air. Well we know plate is Radiant specific and my theory banks on needing the specific radiant to attract their spren and the bond is necessary and not their abilities. So that's also kinda why I don't think transferable plate could be passed down even if they wanted to nor what would the point be, unless the material they make it from is scarce. That was a big eff up on my part, I think I might have to do an amendment and propose a side theory that doesn't include a Bondsmith as I'm a bit more knowledgeable about the lore. If you've watched FMA, it's the part of transmutation that shapes matter. It's a pretty cool ability: https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Strong_Force_Generation That's a pretty accurate estimation and I'm possibly overthinking a few things but I feel like there's enough to make this theory work. Plus they're my current favourite order. Thank You. Your right, I got that confused. The quote was very ambiguous and you're possibly correct but could you perhaps elaborate on a scenario where there could be a Surgebinder in plate? The best I can think of are Skybreakers and while you said Willshapers didn't do anything in those books, that doesn't dismiss that they did at all. Not everything that happens in Stormlight is gonna be written. If not some random Willshaper then I think they just get Kalak to make their suits. As for Shallan, I don't really even wanna touch that tbh. I'm guessing that Lightweavers are one of the exceptions to the "Fourth Ideal = Plate" and when you consider that Shallan is even more inconsistent a character, there's no clear basis for me to form an proper opinion because if it was as clear cut as that, Brandon, wouldn't have done a RAFO.

Why? Do you have evidence that directly contradicts this or just personal doubt?

I chose dustbringers as my fav order, sort of have a thing for anti-heroes and they seem kind a like that. Would want to be a Willshaper though, they come off as enchanters to me. So like a fantasy Iron Man.

I really like this theory as it would coincide with how the Heralds returned. We know Taln came back not just in what remains of Alethela(Alethkar) but in Kholinar, the country's capital. That may be a huge coincidence but I don't think it'd be far fetched to say that each Herald might 'respawn' in a different Silver Kingdom.

I'm indifferent about it to be honest. I think it could be interesting either way depending on how it's written.

Your Order’s name: Saintwalkers Your Order’s spren: Willspren Your Order’s subspren: Joyspren Your ideals: Life before death, Strength before weakness, Journey before destination I will bring hope where there is despair I will uplift those who have brought low I will uplift those who have been brought low, as long as I think it is possible(as long as they benefit) I will not let disappointment overshadow my hope Your Surges: Illumination & Disruption Disruption is the surge of Electrostatic Force, they can manipulate realmatic objects allowing them to be distorted. Other Characteristics: They are kind and almost idealistic people, they strive to be beacons of hope and restore it to those who have lost it, especially Parshendi and Humans who are Voidbringers or considering becoming them. Saintwalkers can use Disruption and disrupt Odium's hold on his victims for a brief period of time, essentially giving them a second chance as long as they have the potential to change. Think of them as a combination between lightweavers and windrunners. Your Order’s name: Doomslayers Your Order’s spren: Corrupted Willspren Your Order’s subspren: Doomspren Your ideals: Death before Life, Strength before weakness, Journey before destination I will eradicate the Voidbringers I will eradicate the Voidbringers but will give some a chance to repent I will bear the hatred of the Voidbringers but never let it define me. Your Surges: Corrupted Disruption & Corrupted Transportation(They go to Braize instead of Shadesmar) Other Characteristics: They are a volatile order that are most prevalent during the Desolations and hardly like to interact with the others or even one another. They are Voidbringer hunters and eradicate everything related to Odium. Their very being is as volatile as their shardblades thanks to Corrupted Disruption, literally their fists and hands have the same destructive capacity of their weapons and ignore density allowing them to destroy almost anything. Effective against thunderclasts for example. They can also draw voidlight from voidspren and slain Voidbringers. Their version of disruption also allows for permanent destruction of the Fused through a static expansion effect expels . They are a sort of combination between StoneWards and Dustbringers.

Just gonna spitball this one but does anyone remember the creature that was with Nale when he hunted Lift. The creature has the ability to extract stormlight from her. so that got me thinking. What if at the fifth ideal was some sort of familiar-like creature. I mean an order that's dedicated to upholding law, especially in the organisation of the KR would definitely benefit from a method that would forcefully extract stormlight from a target.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

Isn't that what Kaladin, Shallan and Jasnah did?

Ah yes, I understand. But if you look at the statement it seems like it hasn't happened or rather there's no evidence yet. I however am leaning toward the former, so I think we can agree to disagree on this one.

We know that opening a perpendicularity is possible with Transportation. Are you referring to another Surge? Also I think being a complicated theory on a complicated magic system is a good thing. Yeah the Elsecallers could for Transportation and Windrunners could for Adhesion but I felt the 'Spiritual' Adhesion is solely a Bondsmith ability. No proof to back that up though, so just speculation from me here. As for why I chose WillShapers over Elsecallers was because even though Orders may share surges, they pursue different things. I also base this on one Taln's rantings about Kalak teaching Smithing for the recent Desolation. Elsecallers are spren-human diplomats and Willshapers are craftsman(I think). Other than that, nothing else to really back it up with. The enter through the perpendiculatiy?(Don't hesitate to let me know if I'm being stupid) Not if you have unlimited investiture from Honor's Perpendicularity, I sure that's where a Bondsmith would come in. I don't understand this point. Dramatic and Sudden can still be achieved by creating and bonding with the plate off-screen and then manifest in a critical moment. It's been done with how Surges work, I don't see why this would be any different. Rosharan human's can?

Hi all, this is my first ever forum post, glad to meet you all! Intro As the title suggests I believe that Willshapers are the ones that create shardplate for the Radiants, or at least I believe my theory is pretty solid. I've been thinking alot about the Willshapers lately and Kalak and from the brief descriptions we have, they seem to appear as very finicky tinkerers. So I basically picture Kalak as the Iron Man of the Heralds who designed the shardplates(maybe some 'Honorplate'). There has also been alot of speculation that shardplate is comprised of subspren and comments from Brandon Sanderson's Q & As and subspren appearing around certain characters(Dalinar, Kaladin & Jasnah) point to this. I also believe that Bondsmiths might play a part in this process, I get more into that later on. How I think it works Since the subspren aren't able to make nahel bonds, therefore only able to manifest in the physical realm for a brief period of time. I think these spren are so drawn to the Radiants and their increasing connection to their sapient cousins, but can't bound because of the laws in place. So Kalak, being the inquisitive airhead decides that if they have shardweapons why not make shardarmor from other spren since Radiants can only have one bond per sapient spren. I imagine that in order to make this happen, the Willshaper will blend their surges together like how Dalinar blended Cohesion and Adhesion to repair the ruins in Thaylen City and somehow bring the spren from Shadesmar into the Physical Realm and use Cohesion to reshape them into shardplate(perhaps involving some sort of Godmetal, not too sure I'm not all that knowledgeable on that topic). Now where does the Bondsmith come in? Well that's simple, they use Spiritual Adhesion to identity key the Plate to the Radiant. I also think maybe another way to look at it is that perhaps a Bondmsith would open a perpendicularity that might affect the process in a way or something? Here is further evidence to back my theory(some speculation): Dalinar was capable of using 'Spiritual Adhesion' to communicate with others of different languages. It would lend credence to their Order's name, perhaps how they even got it like Windrunners and Skybreakers are best known for their flight abilities but can do so much more. The radiants takes the subspren(Will) and shape it into the best form for the knight(Shaper) There's been a convenient lack of information on the Order and their Herald and I'm sure we all know our favourite author has a penchant for leaving omitting delicious information for the sake of storytelling. We know Venli is probably on her way to become one and how she interacts with Dalinar's Radiants could be a big thing in the fourth Stormlight book. In Taln's ramblings about the latest Desolation, he talks about training and leading armies, Jezrien teaching men leadership and Kalak teaching them to smith Bronze. Kalak was probably the Herald of Craftsmanship and this translated to his Order as well. Anyways let me know what you guys think, I'm not that knowledgeable on the magic system in Stormlight, so technical and complex but I still love it. Let me know what I got wrong, or missed out. Cheers!!!