Honorless

Regarding the representation of Ranette and Drehy, my issues are: Them being gay has, so far, only been shown in how it affects other characters We don't see Drehy being gay, not even once, and sexuality is very much an integral part of people, it's not added in, it's part of the whole. We don't see Ranette being gay either, just how her being gay, and thus unattainable, affects Wayne. A part of her character is dedicated to fleshing out the character development of another character. Drehy being gay comes out in a context which just serves to show how the other characters are cool with it. We are told they are gay, we don't even get to see it. It may not seem important to you, but it is to us. Some of you even said that you didn't even realize that Ranette was gay? Is that good representation? That even after all these books, all these characters, these two are the only canon gay representation. That there's no indication that homosexuality even exists outside of these two characters. We get the information that we have from WoBs, we don't see any Vorin gay couples in the background scenes. We don't see any conflict arising due to the differences in opinion between Pathism and Survivorism. We get two points of light, and all I'm saying is I would like them to shine brighter, not just to illuminate other things, and that other motes of light join them @AonEne, @Bliev I found something: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1roLOB8OZm34XjzVyDmH5fyWiPKGYy8i9EzRuhBMZauo/htmlview#gid=0

@king of nowhere, going by what a lot of what you and others here said, but you are the one who put that tag on it, so I'm addressing this to you, why does it seem like I'm shoe-horning an agenda to you? Thank you

I think a lot of you might have issue with what I'm about to say here, but here goes: You are lucky to be straight. It's not a great feeling to be gay. Anyone you think might be beautiful could turn out to find the very idea that you think they are beautiful disgusting. Even the most positive thing that could happen to you, is that some people might get together and put in their votes on whether or not you deserve equal Human Rights, to love, to marry, to have kids. Understand this and be kind. I'm sorry if it looks like I'm being an chull from your perspective but trust me when I tell you this, you have no idea how this feels. People seem to have moved on from debates regarding these kinds of issues now a days, citing how heated they get. This one did get heated, thank you to those of you who still showed up and spoke

Thank you for the book recommendations, those who took the time to make them. A lot of the time I and many others like me are stuck with reading fanfics to get to read the kind of relationships that I can relate to. So thank you @Karger, @RShara, @robardin, @AonEne Thank you those of you who stated their support & understanding for my frustrations, all of you @Bliev, @AonEne, @The Awakened Salad, @Koloss17, @Nuatoma, @Renarin Kholin, @The Dude That Wore White

Are you only judging by certain criteria? Plot relevance? Screentime? How much it affected these couples' character arcs? If Vin & Elend count to you, then why don't Siri & Susebron, Sarene & Raoden? Shallan and Adolin do count, as do Dalinar and Navani, Wax and Steris. They fulfill the criteria I listed. As I originally stated in response to Pathfinder, I'm aware of his overcoming his past biases and striving towards more. I do like him for it, there's no disagreement here

Hey there! Welcome to the Shard!

Welcome to the Shard!

You have problem a problem with one gay person liking you, on a virtual platform, who's not even a real person? Your comment regarding gay adoption rights, just wow, gay parents exist you know? And their kids are doing just fine "i am campaigning against gay discrimination - well that is good. go do it where there's actual need" - first of all, you and people like you are creating this need On a related note, @Pathfinder, thanks for that info, it is relevant in this context, in my opinion. Though you might recall that I mentioned that I was aware of Brandon's former stance regarding this and inspiring change for the better, this was on Parallax' controversial thread? @king of nowhere, you were saying? It's not about you knowing about someone's intimate details? Did the presence of any of the hetero couples bother you? Why should this? I'm not asking you to buy books featuring gay characters, you won't, I get it. No I'm not shoe-horning any political agenda here, a person would not need your approval to want to be represented in media and express that A gay main character is what I'm asking for, I'm not sorry that someone rearing their heads up to ask an author that they've loved to write about people like them seems completely uncalled for to you The fact that anyone would write up such drivel, knowing that it could be up there for posterity, knowing that other people would see this... that just goes to show why I needed to write this in the first place @AonEne, I hope you don't mind too much that I'm dragging you into this but well, looking at the state of this thread, can I ask you to read the whole thing and lend a little support? Because that last one was really uncalled for, to say the least, and congrats, you've successfully hurt me from miles away, hope you're feeling proud of yourself I thought I could respond coherently to what you wrote, but just lost my energy halfway. I've tried to address things logically but just what the hell

Reminds me of one of Brandon's non-Cosmere works ⚠ non-Cosmere work major spoiler ⚠

This one might be a bit more difficult than the prev rounds So violent! Hunger

It was probably similar to Soulcasting, where your body is in the Physical Realm and your mind is in the Cognitive Realm, wholly or partially The Spiritual Realm is more than just Fortune, which is just one aspect of it. It is where Investiture comes from. It houses all beings' Identity. Another aspect of it is Connection, which we understand the least and still have a lot of divergent theories on. It probably was futuresight stored into the vision, as you guessed but we don't know how any of this actually works We don't know much about the circumstances during which Tanavast recorded them either

Enlistment

Here you go:

@Quantus, Lyn and Rlain's issues were developed slowly throughout the books. We have Shallan providing us insight into Vorinism affecting women, though ironically she fails to understand Lyn there. Same with Rlain, the Parshendi-human divide was explored well with Eshonai and Venli and Kaladin's journey with the Listeners before Rlain's chapter. Drehy being gay was handled in one chapter. And that was it. You are misunderstanding the point I'm trying to make here, which can be tl;dr'ed as: A ) these characters are all the indication we've gotten that homosexuality even exists in the Cosmere within all of the books B ) How the characters' sexuality was handled and revealed in the books: We don't see, we are told. These revelations also serve to depict that the main characters are cool with it, though Wayne bumbled here majorly, which was part of his character development. That's my point and complaint regarding Ranette. But really I broke down what my issue was quite clearly here: I stopped watching Arrow after Season 2 so I can't comment there. Comics depends on the creator, even with the same character. I do like Constantine though, and some issues have really handled him well, but most and the most popular ones still simply depict him as a chick (and demon, and demon chick) magnet.

We don't know the relationship between Connection and Honor, that part's true. And the Shardic nature thing is inherent to all the Shards, also true, but there's no reason why that couldn't be tied to Honor, who is, after all, part of Adonalsium's very nature. Regarding the Dustbringer part, their eyes turned red, which is the colour that signifies Corruption, so there might be something there...

@KandraAllomancer, we have confirmation that the Shards' powers are spread throughout the Cosmere. The Vessels' minds though are mortal, that's why Shards seem concentrated on their Shardworld. In the Cosmere, Ruin is entropy, and as such his Investiture is everywhere, even though his attention isn't. This WoB regarding Nightblood having Ruin's Investiture puts it best: Looks like Shards too need to do some Investiture hacks (and Autonomy is already on it with her Avatars)

The Well of Ascension?

Asexual

Hermaphroditic

Yearning

Hmm, lemme try to list them out: 0) You mentioned Trelagism, the religion of the Nelazan, a dualist religion named after the god Trell. Trell's opposite was Nalt, and the two were believed to be brothers. Trelagists believed that night was beautiful and daylight was profane. During the night, Trelagists were able to see the "Thousand Eyes of Trell" (the stars) watching over them. Jealous of the worship given to his brother, Nalt would shine his single eye (the sun) on the land during the day, blocking Trelagists from seeing Trell's eyes. Despite Nalt's attempts to outshine his brother, the Trelagists believed that Trell continued to watch over them during the day. Their beliefs concerning the afterlife are described by Sazed as "almost whimsical," and their doctrine in general was left intentionally ambiguous on many issues in order to allow followers to "discover truth for themselves." Adherents were encouraged to pray to Trell, and believed that their god would respond to petitions. Their star charts allowed Sazed to restore the planet's orbit. 1) There were a group of people before the Ascension known as the Astalsi. They claimed that each person was born with a certain finite amount of ill luck. And so, when an unfortunate event happened, they thought themselves blessed—thereafter, their lives could only get better. The Astalsi followers mixed religion with science. They developed a detailed scale to express different colors, and thought that these different colors were indications of different kinds of fortune. Sazed preached this religion to Vin stating that she'd already been through a lot in life 2) The Dadradah believed that there was only one God, and that practicing art was the only right way to draw closer to that God, being an artist even was a higher calling than being a priest. Dadradah followers had a fascination for color and hue, and were fond of poetry that described this. Sazed tells Clubs about Dadradah, noting at the end that this was the "last religion he ever taught", and used it to put everything back to its natural color. 3) It focused on discovery and knowledge—to these people, the making of maps was a reverent duty, describing the Bennet religion, Sazed uses their maps to rebuild the continents to their original forms. 4) The Cazzi or Canzi people followed an unnamed religion that focuses on the form of the human body. Sazed uses it to restore the nobles and Skaa back to their original biology from before Rashek's Ascension. Sazed mentions this religion early on, praying over a dead body using a Cazzi prayer. Rashek modeled the lives of the skaa after Cazzi slaves. 5) Larstaism is the religion that Kelsier's wife followed. In HoA, Sazed mentions that of all the religions he knew, he spent the longest time considering if this one was "true", because there were no inherent contradictions in it. It had focused on art, not the sacred in the usual sense, and had centered around donating money to support monks so that they could compose poetry and paint and sculpt works of art. 6) the Terris religion - were aware of Realmatic Theory to some degree ~Emperor's Soul spoilers~ This is the religion which carried Preservation's prophecy 7) Duis, a god once said to watch over wearied travelers. Sazed prayed to him when he got caught by the Koloss army 8) HaDah, a southern religion with an agricultural diety. Sazed performs a HaDah funeral for a Skaa that was killed by the Deepness 9) Valla lasted a long time, including long after its leaders died out. Kelsier often asked Sazed to talk about this religion, claiming that he wanted a reminder of their perseverance. 10) Jaism was founded by a man called The Ja by his followers. Jaists believed "that they earned happiness proportional to their overt devotion, and they were known for frequent and fervent professions of faith". They also ended most of their sentences with the phrase, "Praise the Ja." Jaism was destroyed shortly after the ascension of the Lord Ruler; its adherents were not difficult to find. However, every last one had to be killed, according to the Steel Ministry belief, as not a single Jaist would accept the Lord Ruler as a deity. Sazed told Kelsier about Jaism when the latter asked to hear about a religion with power This was a rush job so I might've missed some of the religions, so please point them out Why isn't there already a list somewhere? I had to look for them individually

So you're afraid that it would widen the divide between two sides of an argument? I mean, wouldn't these people already express their side of the argument in their posts? Seeing who agrees with them in responsibly written reaction posts would be better than just seeing your opposition seemingly being the more popular one, wouldn't it? Most of us on here are already hiding behind the anonymity of our usernames, I think making upvoters visible would only contribute to more conscientious upvoting, which would if this change goes forward transform that into supporting, in the long term.

I've seen this issue discussed elsewhere, here iirc: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/66588-discussion-about-forum-moderation The mods suggested bringing in reactions to replace the upvote system but wouldn't it make much more sense to make upvoters' names visible? Wouldn't bringing in reactions recreate the problems that occurred with the downvote system? Knowing that other people would be able to see who's supporting what, rather than anonymously giving support to things they agree with would encourage more thoughtful responses, would they not?

Does Tarson count? I mean he's a Pewterarm but he's also Koloss-blooded