LewsTherinTelescope

Fair enough, yeah. Was meaning that mostly jokingly, because it's not the first time he's said far more inaccurate things he should no better about lol. I'm still half convinced Brandon thought Bondsmiths had Cohesion when he wrote the temple scene and it was supposed to be a Spiritual version of that But yeah, thanks for the correction, wasn't sure how much was stated in the books so I was sticking to just mentioning Adhesion to be on the safe side

I don't understand how this makes Surgebinding overall Honor and not Cultivation? And Progression keeps working with Lifelight, and seems to be more effective with it, going off of Lift and lifespren. Extra capabilities that are always described by everyone as Adhesion.

Few things: Radiants are of both Shards, so that categorization leaves out Honor. Since "Surge" would thus be H&C, we'd likely need separate words for H&O, C&O, and H&C&O, at which point we've got seven words used in the fandom for what people in-world likely consider to be just one thing, and it still doesn't actually cover everything the in-world word does. You might even be able to argue that different orders belong to different "Shards" (since the spren have different Intents and we know the manifestations of the same Surge differ slightly between orders), and that they aren't the same thing. This is obviously a silly slippery slope fallacy, but I think it highlights that there's a big difference in the way we're approaching these things. Under the definition you give, neither the Nightwatcher nor the Stormfather would grant Surges, only "Lifes" and "Storms" (the Bondsmith blurb confirms the powers work differently for different Bondsmiths). It complicates entrance to the fandom, since new readers likely won't know that people are using terms defined very differently from in the books, and that seems like a conversation that will get old fast. (Subjective and tangential) I think calling them "Lifes"/"Lives" is a bad idea because I don't want to have to explain to new readers that "the Nightwatcher grants two Lives" has nothing to do with resurrection

In that case I'll blame my physics teacher, wouldn't be the first time he's not completely understood what he was teaching us (He also tried to convince us aliens built the pyramids, so I'm kind of used to taking what he says with a grain of salt, lol.) Edit: once more, hitting reply before finishing reading has screwed me up, lol The thing is, it leads to wildly different theories based on which interpretation of the word you use, and it's not always clear from the word itself what's meant. (For your "draw" example, it's not like it can mean "either painting, woodcarving, or art as a whole and it's not always clear which", most of the meanings are pretty different. Otoh, "Surge" has the usages similar enough to each other it can cause communication issues.)

I think swapping between the definitions so much mostly just causes needless confusion, especially when the meaning seems to change (I believe I recall an argument being floated that some Voids may be related to Surges and others aren't, in which case the meaning seems to be being used as the first meaning even though the conversation otherwise uses the latter). And it seems to also sometimes be taken to only mean Honor's interpretation (see: the idea of Surges, Lifes, and Voids as H, C, and O), while other times it means the interpretations of the spren of H&C - which gets even more complicated when you remember some of the Bondsmith spren are only of one of the Shards, and yet the word Surge still applies even though it's a wildly different interpretation of the power. So I don't think that usage of the word "Surge" should only mean one limited subset, considering it doesn't remotely match how the characters use it or scholars classify it.

They.... run on electricity? And electromagnetism is part of what holds atoms and molecules together.

Exactly. You don't stop calling steel "steel", nor do you stop classifying it as a metal. You just add a qualifier to clarify that you mean a different property of the metal. So I would argue you shouldn't, say, stop calling Illumination "Illumination" just because we're looking at a system that expresses a different aspect of it, nor should you stop calling it a Surge. Which is definitely pretty interesting. At the same time, her powers don't seem noticeably different (besides maybe her Progression working better), so these two things seem somewhat separate.

I mean, this feels like saying Not everything is gonna be explained by just the very basic level, you're gonna get into things interacting in a complex manner that's not easily explainable without massive amounts of time and research. Especially with how philosophical the Surges are, if something is absolutely impossible to describe using the physical manifestations you can just start using the more spiritual or abstract ones. For example, You can probably explain this in terms of Transformation or Illumination (depending on the exact nature of the concepts), acting in a more abstract role than Surgebinders can directly manipulate. Again, the Surges are not just the magic system of Surgebinding, any more than the only manifesation of the electroweak interaction is phones.

I strongly disagree with this way of putting it for a few reasons. The "Surges" are not just the effects of Surgebinding. They're a set of (often mostly philosophical) percieved fundamental forces, which the Knights Radiant express aspects of (and we see via things like Bondsmiths that other aspects can be expressed while still being considered the same Surge). So I don't feel there will be "ten Voids" or "ten Lifes", there will be different expressions of the Surges filtered through the lens of the relevant Shard(s). Surgebinding and Radiance is not just of Honor. It is of both Honor and Cultivation, which both sides agree on. So the "Surges" (as defined the way you seem to be using it, not how I defined it above) would be of both, not purely Honor's. (This seems similar to what @ReaderAt2046was saying.)

Yeah, I've had similar thoughts, but I've never managed to come up with enough details for a proper theory. But I do think it's possible, and that if it's true, that could be part of why the Sibling was especially affected, if the two were Connected strongly. (I've also liked the idea that, after their gods sided against them [or at least refused to help them, not necessarily directly took action against them], some of the Fused unmade BAM/aided Odium in doing so somehow as a sort of revenge strike, and that's why the spren finally entered the fight against them and refused to bond them, and is why both sides view it as a betrayal: the singers view the spren and Shards not helping them as joining their invaders and attackers, while the spren view the "death" and corruption of the crucial spren that was BAM as a horrific crime. But this is mostly headcanon for now, since we know so little about that time.)

I doubt it, because the Sibling probably didn't exist yet. It was created for the war against Odium, and according to the Sibling in the quote you posted was to be the common ground between spren and humans, so even if it was made during the short period between the Ashynite arrival and the outbreak of war, I don't think the singers would be terribly surprised that the Sibling sided against them. (Personally, I've liked the idea it's BAM, SF, and NW, but there's not a lot to go off for BAM to be totally sure.)

I wonder what exactly the Sibling is the spren of... Is it just raw Investiture with a mind but no concept, unlike every other Radiant spren? Is it the soul of the physical tower? Etc. The answer might be related.

I mean... they've made it their duty to go around killing every other Radiant. Way I take it is basically "Ten orders. All ended in death." "Well for one of them it was everyone else's death, not their own, but yeah, lots of death." Worth keeping in mind they did not just lose Honor's tone, they lost both. Based on what they say about how Honor could have helped them if he weren't dying, I assume the reason they can hear Cultivation's now is she did something to restore it. (I've actually wondered if this might be why Odium was able to finally land the killing blow on Honor, Cultivation overextended herself trying to repair the damage and coudn't attack Odium when he finally exposed himself during the strike.) Doesn't necessarily change anything directly for the WoB, but it's relevant for theorizing. Tbh I still have absolutely NO idea what the heck about it could be doing this. It's so weird as a side-effect. Like, does it result in the part of the spren being ripped out, more than would happen before? Or did that always happen but BAM's existence would have somehow repaired them? Why are they not affected until they make a bond? Why are even spren born AFTER her capture still effected? Like... it's just SO weird. My conspiracy brain is running real hardcore on this, and I do not like it... lmao. Stormfather would also have to not know, since he mentions learning things from Melishi, and that Melishi was starting to see the lines. And presumably most of the spren would have to not, since Dreaming-though-Awake has learned Nale and Kalak were present, and you'd think leaving out the fact that the dude doing it was Ishar would be a major omission when counting the Heralds there. So yeah, I doubt it, personally. I think that's possible, but did the other nations even know they had them? Feels like it'd be harder to keep the Heralds' betrayal secret once you start questioning why all but Taln left their swords behind.

Ah okay, thanks for the correction

Unless I'm doing the math wrong, wouldn't 21.5 be around 45% more than 15?

Main thing I know on it is the "one half-gram matter plus one half-gram antimatter would hypothetically be significantly larger than the Hiroshima atom bomb" thing, but I don't know any of the physics to say how realistic the odds of any particular large explosion would be. Was mostly making a joke about how anti-Light annihilation seems to be wayyyyy weaker and if they ever make antimatter in (relative) large quantities expecting it to turn out similarly weak, they're screwed, lol.

I mean, I would say the Stormfather holds it, not Dalinar. He just lets Dalinar use it sometimes. (But the Nahel bond merging souls does make things weird.) I don't see why that would be the case, she was still made by the Stormfather, just a really long time ago.

Well, it depends on what "defunct" means here. If the theory this post is about is true (which I don't love but think is possible), then the Heralds might've been sent back, but I wouldn't call the Oathpact defunct, just not currently in effect, and this "defunct" state may have started later on (ie when Jez died). On the other hand, it could still be referring to an earlier thing.

He was on the southern continent in the Physical Realm around ten years after the Catacendre, so a pretty long time. Interesting. Wonder if he means Jezrien's death or something else earlier.

#1 seems most likely to me, with what we know from Sja-anat, Pattern, and Venli, personally. The storm in some way seems to allow things to escape, which imo kinda renders the Oathpact moot. Lezian seems to think something similar: If all that would be required is killing a Herald and sending them back, I don't think he'd be so sure he won't be trapped again.

Fair enough lol, I've definitely thrown weirder crem out there on whims before.

I'd guess it's specifically because it's dampened, and because there's the Intent of applying it. Kinda overwhelming it. If they were both even, I could see it either being repelled or just being assigned weakly, or even just being annihilated (destructive interference that cancels to zero is theoretically how the anti-Light + Light annihilation happens, after all), but can't see it being nullified and still existing.

Wouldn't that just repel it?

I think that'd just result in it staying Voidlight, since Brandon's said it's probably just dampened in the vacuum, not blank.

Worth noting that Vasher taught her to do it to herself, whereas Odium was doing it externally and so probably has less flexibility in how he can manipulate it.