Frustration

Tiny cracks holes small enough the blades are all that come out. There is a people, and a region Do you think I did an accurate analysis in 20 seconds? That kills them too. The one in my pocket?

Considering it was made of souls that's a rather... Morbid image.

Do anti-investiture weapons though? I've been working under the assumption that they don't. That's when Dalinar's peace agreement comes into effect. And them, hopefully just them, but them as well, which should serve as enough of a deterrent. They retract at footsteps, the noise alone would drive them to retract. How would they catch fire when underground? Perhaps if they were completely surrounded, but how do the edges of the fire grow? Why would you use a KT level bomb for a light show? Aren't you the one that said not to bring that up? Regardless the US would be fine. The government and large cities might not, but the land and several million people would 100% still be there. They can't strike first they need a tax base in order to pay their soldiers. They need me, I don't need them.

Used responsibly it's just another form of explosive. Everyone has the ability to create toxic gases today, both the materials and the knowledge, buying everything you need wouldn't even raise eyebrows. But you don't see that happening. The vegetation that can completely burry itself underground, has literal rock for an outer shell, or some other method of not being burnt to the point that people have to specifically prepare the stuff they want to burn? The wind and heat from the incoming fire would have everything retract, the fire would put itself out. The Highstorms will put out any fires that manage to somehow sustain themselves. I don't think you get to the point where 9/10 people are dead unless the Fused are leading it. And even then they only have 10 days to do it, and they definitely don't have the time to make enough bombs for that. Do you know how many people use plastic explosives, TNT or other explosives for fun? We literally have a holiday we're just about everyone shoots explosives into the air, for fun. Disney is America's second largest buyer of explosives and all of it is for fun. My protection is an anti-investiture bomb. I don't need anything else.

100% for fun, but I don't see why that changes anything.

And that makes me crazier than doing testing? Government tests would intentionally try making the largest weapons they could, I have to limit the size for my own safety. @alder24 since posing this as inevitable will not work I will propose a hypothetical, because you are an insightful person and I value your perspective. Let's say that during the War both sides mass produce anti-investiture weapons, to the point that just about everyone knows how to make them. What do you think the short and long term consequences of that would be?

The gun that has so much recoil he has to tap iron to use it? Considering that at most some orders had a low thousand members and we know from the Reference vision that the Windrunners had at least 100 plated radiants, while the Stonewards had 200(and those cannot be all of them as Windrunners were the largest order, so the Stonewards having nearly doubled their plated radiants makes no sense) we can see that while it might not be the majority, having shardplate is not that rare, below 1 in 10 at the very least. It is but it requires Connection manipulation, and isn't something they can do naturally.

And guarding doors to where the Radiants are at, something you would assume would be left for soldiers. And those are both military positions, not assembly, and you still ignore the fact that without Raysium they aren't a threat to the Fused. And that makes me a crazy person? Which I already answered but I'll do it again. 1. They don't exist yet. 2. You can't stop them. Large city, not a Town, and it is one of the largest cities in the world. That would be like using Tokyo or New York to say that most modern cities have millions of people rather than tens of thousands. And even Kholinar has a lower population than London at the same tech level. So Kholinar(going by 1796 the invention of vaccines for my London date) would have much fewer than 575-600 thousand people, probably looking at close to 400,000 as one of the largest cities on the planet. And that was before the Singer invasion, so it's probably a lot smaller now. A few hundred in large towns, a few thousand to a city. Which is what I was trying to say, I might have been unclear. So it's probably not a good idea to live in a big city, and as I said before, live in small communities. Jah Keved was entirely a civil war because petty rulers with too much power wanted the crown, in your proposed situation those guys are all dead. Anyone outside of a major city(so the vast majority of the population) can just go about their lives as normal, except now they don't have to pay taxes.

...hmmm. I'll have to look into this again. How many envoyforms are there? A voice for the important Fused, but those are the ones who run their staff, so they can't make anti-stormlight. Other than them you have warriors. And why would that destroy my village? I would totally set some bombs off, but not in the middle of town, just like people have campfires but don't light them in their attics. You realize how low the population density of pre-industrial worlds is right? Large towns at this tech level might have a few hundred people at most. The only places you could get more than a few thousand in the blast radius you could make with without liquid or Solid Stormlight, are the warcamps, Azimir, and potentially Urithiru. And even then you would have to be really rich to get enough gemstones.

No in this context their souls are are the souls of men. Ivory specifically said: In this world men hide easily. Now Heralds souls would still shine, but this does not prove that their souls are the brightest.

That doesn't say that you could locate the Heralds in particular, only that souls are easy too see and can't be hid. I saw that, and as I said the change would have been instant, and as someone who has had their vision suddenly shift(everything turned yellower, don't ask me why, I don't know) it is very noticable.

I'm not making you stay. But you can't protect yourself from the Tone. Not to mention you would quickly lose your supply of Stormlight. Too far to keep them from entering. He has a new vessel, he could. It does not. So give thousands of Regals the knowledge, but none of them are going to share? And more than that, then they aren't fighting despite being your best soldiers. And why limit it to them? Without Raysium they can't kill you. You said: "You're living with crazy people." That's not a reason, that's a hypothetical. And how do you know that? What makes these people so much better than everyone else? It did happen in the past, and she worried it would happen again. They really are. 1,000 people dead is 1,000 people dead. There are only a few places on Roshar where you could get more people into a blast radius. The difference comes in when you have multiple people with those weapons, not on the individual level.

I do not recall that. But even if they did you can tell if someone has been doing firemoss or not by looking in the CR. 1. Riini could have breath, he even asks Kaladin what heightening he is. 2. Atium being detectable via steelsight was the same way, and an in world explanation was given. Raoden underwent an instant transformation, if colors suddenly sharpened he would have noticed.

They tried They pretty much all do. We just don't care. Something that caused her incredible soul splitting pain after hearing it a single time, and was magnified a thousand times by touching an anti-voidlight gem. Even Hoid doesn't fight that kind of pain. Because those will survive an anti-investiture attack? A lot harder to get, not to mention it makes you entirely dependent on the IRE, basically turning every spren nation into a vassal state. Provided Odium allows it. No it doesn't. They can make it, but without the Raysium to draw the Fused Soul out they can't be killed by it. For all of the Fused? Not to mention all the regals are loyal. Yes because they were totally killed with no warning or way out, and none of the most successful empires were made through mostly peaceful annexation. Only the vacuum tube is needed, and as I said they are easy to make. Not to mention you are begging for an Orwellian police state. Why not? Give me one good reason why that wouldn't work. That life with these devices is undeniably cooler than without them? Yes I see that. Nuclear winter is an unproven hypothetical, one that relies on massive fires which Roshar's rock surface and weekly Highstorms could not maintain. Therefore nuclear winter is not possible on Roshar. How do you propose to keep them from knowing, you have to tell just about everyone in order to win the war in the first place. Not to mention knowledge of tones is what will propel Roshar's industry forwards. So keep people in the dark because you know better than them? Not to mention Navani specifically called out the Theylan artifabrians for keeping the tuning forks a secret. WoR 993 Navani talks about it, I do not have the chapter number, but it's during the battle for Narak when she sets up a fabrial to take water out of the air. Because the scholars are so much more trustworthy? Do you have any idea how elitist that sounds? They seem pretty comparable to me, thousands dead either way you slice it.

The ground in Kalihoto isn't as hot as it was before the machine.

Elantrians don't see color differently, or taste any better. Both during and after the Reod. At that oath level, Eshoni hadn't even gotten to third which is were they really start to see large leaps in power. There's a pretty big difference in power, and I'm not just talking about getting shards, though I feel that would count in some way as well. They get more efficient with Stormlight, and the Stormlight they use becomes more powerful. I don't think them being more invested than Heralds causes a problem, Heralds are essentially Radiants who broke their Oaths, but they would be much more invested than such Radiants. Now at their height Heralds would definitely be more invested, but right now I could see either way.

She doesn't have a choice, if the Coalition is going to win the war they will need everyone to know how to make anti-voidlight with how little they have. Raboniel didn't make the first plate, but she did use it, and was stunned at the results. Navani theorized that the plate just had to be made correctly. No each awakening requires Intent, if some people were incapable of providing Intent they would be unable to awaken, but everyone can. To figure out how to get a plate to create the anti-tone, nit to get her intent right. Later on Odium attempts to influence her and she hears his Tone, and can simply by choice invert it. They could try, but just like Congress declared the metric system the preferred measuring system of the US(which they did) doesn't mean people will obey them(which we don't). The only people that would actually impact are the people who obey by choice, as there would be no way to force them. So it might as well be legal for all the effect it would have. See how literally anyone who wants them can have them. Now imagine drugs could easily be synthesized by anyone with no way to tell if they were doing it or not. It doesn't matter what kind of enforcement you try you will not be able to prevent anyone who wants one from making one. Not to mention you won't be able to do any enforcement outside of big cities. How do you stop people three days journey from the nearest city from making them? No as they would do incredible damage to themselves trying to make Honor's anti-tone. Not to mention they only have so much Stormlight. You can't. They can't leave the CR, and the area around Cultivations perpendicularity is an ocean. How do you stop anyone who wants to from just walking through? It's not the interstellar trade, it's the Stormlight. They can't get it in the CR, and they need it for everything from weapons to furniture, to changing their appearance, to healing themselves. They need Stormlight. A reasonable point. The suppression was added by Honor and Cultivation, I don't think you can improve on that. Raboniel spent thousands of years trying, and her latest attempt was much weaker that the Sibling. Simply don't give them voidlight. It's not like they give them Raysium anyway, and that's what would be needed. Anti-Stormlight on the other hand every fused will need, and I can't see a world where they make it themselves. I'd note this won't happen for a long time, the rise in suicide and random indiscriminate killing is incredibly recent IRL, driven largely by the isolation the internet brought. However let's say this does happen immediately, we've already established that these people don't care about the law or human lives. How do you stop them from making these devices? Infinity easier than trying to regulate something so easy to make, is just to not urbanize, live in small communities, and be really nice to everyone as you never know what might set them off. You're right I totally would do that, that sounds awesome. For? No you can't, think about the demographics of Roshar for a second. Kaladin grew up in a town where there was only one real 'police' figure. And they were the only authority for miles. How do you keep those people from making anti-investiture weapons? Your premise relies on high population density, and a lot of law enforcement, neither of which exist outside of a few very specific areas. Do you have any idea how easy they are to make? I've got several, you probably do as well, heck Kaladin and his dad have some. All you need is a simple syringe, or even just some rubber, or whatever Roshar's equivalent is and some time on your hands. Now they would be harder to use, but substantially easier to make. But not anymore. Let's talk about all the useful applications of the anti-stormlight tone actually. What happens when you make a fabrial, let's use the water attracting one as an example, and it starts pulling the blood out of everyone nearby? And I use this example because it happened. Simply playing the anti-Honor tone would force the Stormlight out of the gems and turn it off. Do you really think Navani wouldn't let others know about this? And not to mention Roshar has had WMD's for millennium in Shardblades, such destruction is considered normal. It's just about the illusion of separation or something. It's perceived as separated and that works. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either but it works.

They were asking for the first time a Shard did it. The first CS likely predates the Shattering.

Odium with the Fused is the first we know of. Then Honor with the Heralds. Then thousands of years later Endowment does it.

A saw. You know, for cutting wood?

She really is. She's intelligent don't get me wrong, but she is stupid. She already gave the secret away once and to her enemies. And the Fused would definitely share the knowledge. No you don't, simply having an instrument that can play the right tone is enough as we see with Raboniel. And anyone can provide intent, we see this in awakening. And beyond that the tones are the same as the notes in one of the major music theories on the planet, most instruments will be able to play them, and as Navani showed shortly before bonding the Sibling you can invert Tones by intent if you can hear them. You can make breathing illegal, people are still going to do it. The only things that are truly illegal are the things that are enforced, and enforcement here is just about impossible. You might be able to limit the size by limiting the size of gemstones, but then you make every fabrial that relies on them weaker, not to mention that gemhearts can't be regulated, or that they can easily get around that by using multiple smaller gems. How do you block access when they can drop actual anti-investiture bombs through? If someone wanted to kill a spren they very easily could. Not to mention their economy relies on constant access to the PR. If everyone has one so do their victims, and we're back to Mutually Assured Destruction. I would be beyond stunned if it wasn't the most powerful though.

She preceives color and taste better, but she doesn't glow or magnify colors. The Stormlight ran out before she died, and I know the Stormfather intervened, but note how he specifically says minutes not hours, that's the same thing Leras says to Kelsier Nothing explicit that I recall. On Roshar there is a spren called Cusichesh the Protector. Axies does an explanation of it, but when it rises from the bay people feel drained watching it, the description is almost exactly the same as Yumi describes when she manifests spirits. What Yumi is doing with multiple spirits Cusichesh is doing with multiple people.

Thank you. How? It's a vacuum tube and an instrument. Not exactly something you can track. Not to mention Raboniel going out of her way to make sure everyone had it, and Navani's dedication to open knowledge. Staying in the CR won't save them, and it would actually in my opinion make them more vulnerable as their mobility is significantly decreased, and as shards they are protected. Would it? After the first two uses no nuclear weapons have ever been used again, they might threaten it, but how many organizations would actually risk it? That isn't possible, as even under the Siblings suppression Stormlight/anti-stormlight reactions could occur.

@alder24 I have come to the conclusion that nothing I say will convince you, and nothing you say will convince me. And as this is not the conversation I wanted to have I have decided to adjust the topic of conversation to where accessibility is not up for debate. SA

No worries They can seal the eye-slit if they want to, Jasnah does so in RoW.