Friendshipspren

7 minutes ago, The Traveller said:

Yes I agree. At first he was struggling with Robaniel, then she created anti-voidlight rhythm which she said was really hurting Moash and caused him to stagger. 
Then when she bonded the sibling, he managed to reach her but together they created sibling light which then blinded him. 

Oh yeah raboniel stopped him too. Hmmm yeah but still it is wierd he didn't kill raboniel straight out. I mean he's emotionless and shouldn't care about her. 

One good swipe and she would be dead. He has surges too. He could have just lashed himself towards navani , dragging raboniel behind or slipping off her . 

Huh ? The song paralysis I can understand but not killing raboniel or using surges on her is wierd 

Although perhaps he didn't want to kill a good tool and an important figure too. Heh. 

15 hours ago, Harfyn said:

 

Re: Leshwi having access to Odium's investiture, I think Brandon has confirmed via WOB that a shard can't choose to turn off their magic system for a particular person - its a law of nature at that point. So I think Leshwi would need to do something that would put her more in his power to actually be affected. Like once she dies, he will have power over her again, but until then she still has access to any powers she normally would. 

Oh good. Also perhaps it's possible they can use stormlight now. I mean if Venli can use voidlight to perform surgebinding , surely the opposite could be true too 

Rayse would have frowned on it since he likes to keep the fused emotionally agitated and with voidlight.

So perhaps it was possible but they just didn't have any reason to do it but now do.

Or perhaps navani could find a way for her to use stormlight or towerlight

On 11/18/2020 at 7:46 PM, The Traveller said:

True that. 
One of the best things about Brandon’s books and also the worst thing is that I can not put these books down and finish so quickly!!

And then the awesome ride is over all too soon. 
you can re read but it is never the same! 
I remember that I had decided to read wheel of time in 2017 and it took me from jan to august to read till book 11. Last three books I had planned to finish by November end and then I was going to start SA, thinking that atleast by then I will surely have OB. 
But by the time 1st nov came, I had read last three wheel of time books and Wok and WoR and ended up waiting for OB for 2 whole weeks!! 
Brandon has a way of ruining all my plans! 

Oh wow 

1 hour ago, GameOfGroans said:

Oh yes    When reading that part, it felt like he was standing there waving that sword over Navani for at least 5 mins while she had quite a discussion and even a sing-song with the Sibling. I don't like that kind of time warps, but BS seems to love them.

Wasn't it the anti-voidlight rhythm navani sung which paralysed him ?

15 hours ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

This is clearly hemalurgic incorporation. 

 

Idk . It could just be a art thing . El is a refined killer , like Hannibal Lecter. He likes aesthetics.  I think he includes metal to express himself and  make himself look more aesthetic or perhaps to copy human armor without actually wearing it. 

It could be hemalurgy but I really doubt he could have kept it secret for so long from odium . Odium could probably sense the investiture esp since he's connected to El directly for millenia .

And if Odium knew about it he would have already used it in the most widespread manner. Esp on moash perhaps. 

I think perhaps they have new nations in space. O'Neil cylinders and Dyson swarm. Heck u would be surprised how much surface area an O'Neil cylinder or  other larger variants can have. They can have centripetal force mimic any planets gravity just making the cylinder spin. 

Millions or even billions could live on one big cylinder or in a swarm of smaller ones. 

I think it's not just reduces to the planet but that you have artificial habitats. Some are colonies of the planet. Others are independent nations with a population as numerous as any planet. Perhaps to escape the influence of Shards. 

As for the gemstones losing Light. Just wrapping then in aluminium should work. 

Also  it's now possible for Venli and I assume others to power surgebinding via voidlight. Could this not become more common and expansive over time ?

Esp with Taravangian ending Odium's policy of aloofness and Taravangian and Cultivation buddying up. 

Also I think perhaps the Knight actually was a machine. A robot or android. With sentiance but not emotion. 

On 11/25/2020 at 10:24 AM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

He’s indicated that Prudence may be a Shard name though, and they would be two very different things.

Isn't invention being prudent by hiding for so long ?

24 minutes ago, The Traveller said:

I think it is too risky for sazed to think that he can find someone else for his two shards. 
these are two shards!! One of them is probably the most destructive shard ! How can one ever place that much faith in someone to vest them with the powers of two shards. 
 

I think this letter is before mistborn era 2 and he has found his way out. He has found his champion Wax

It isn't two shards anymore. To Sazed it seems to be but to others it's Harmony.

He needs someone who can look at it as Discord perhaps. 

As for wax bring his champion. I...idk ... But I don't think he would be it. I think Harmony is playing a longer game . 

I think it would be Crusade and would ally greatly with Taravangians aim.

Honor : To bind the Cosmere with laws and stop chaos .

Cultivation : To encourage ppl to grow but that can only occur in peace and stability.

Odium : To use the wrath to level the ones opposing u. 

Honor and Cultivation would temper Odium's destructive tendencies .

While Odium and its focus on emotions would stop Honor from growing too restrictive . 

Hmmmm I wonder if this is what Cultivation is planning. To unite the three Shards under Taravangian and aid him in the Crusade. 

No idea how things would work following the end of the War for the Heavens tho. 

Hell yeah. Sigh makes me wonder what a beautiful Radiant he would have been. 

18 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

Do we think the other Heralds had moments of lucidity when Navani bonded the Sibling, too? Or was Ishar special for one reason or another?

If they did, I hope we hear about it.

No that wasn't around the same time. Dalinar accepted kaladin's words. Navani had bonded The Sibling before that. I don't think it meshes with the timeline

The Kings of Worlds.

What Taravangian is aiming to be 

What the Ghostbloods are kinda aiming to be too.

It could refer to the 2 realms of Roshar or the 2-3 planets in the greater Rosharan system or  the Cosmere

On 11/25/2020 at 8:12 AM, Karger said:

No.  Sazed's entire philosophy is to react to keep balance and let people live their lives as they see fit.  He would not be OK with meddling even through another on such a vast scale.  It basically means he knows better and I don't think he is that arrogant.

Oh yes he did not at all interfere secretly in wax or Marasi's lives to bring them where they are. Not one bit. 

Also I don't understand ur argument. As of now he's unable to use his shard to defend Scadrial properly or to bring greater prosperity or avoid conflict. 

If he can choose someone even  better suited to it , someone who can both attac and protec as the meme goes without leaning too much over to eiter side. Someone who can see theconsequences of say creating the elendel basin and making it super fertile , better than he did. 

Someone who's better at war strategy or whatever. 

Someone who also believes in the same philosophy as Sazed but with added virtues. 

Why shouldn't Harmony not give up the power to him ?

Esp if that means he can actually put his philosophy to greater effect and bring more freedom to make choices to more ppl while protecting them 

On 11/26/2020 at 6:35 PM, GameOfGroans said:

I'm curious, what exactly makes you think Veil is more "real" than the others? Do you feel that different types of characters and temperaments are less real?

I never said she was more real. Only that she was real . Radiant is real too. Although I don't have a crush on her. 

On 11/26/2020 at 6:41 PM, TiaOmi said:

Shallan is healing, she is coming to terms with the different sides of her personality and getting over the traumas of her childhood, and you would rather have her splintered and broken?

She could do that without killing Veil and Radiant. Or having them commit voluntary suicide.

I see it as something positive. Not Splintering but diversifying. Not broken but expanding. 

I understand that they were originally created as tools to help her get over her childhood traumas but like they grew to be more.

It's one of the themes of the book. How created beings whether they be human children, Spren or Unmade all can grow into thier own person.

Sja-Anat :

Quote

She rose up, taking the form of a woman of streaming black smoke with pure white eyes. Shadows and mist, Odium’s pure essence. If he were to know the deepest secret parts of her soul, he would not be surprised. For she had come from him. Unmade by his hand.
But as with all children, she had become more.

Kal and syl :

Quote

Humans thinking about the wind, and honor, might have given you shape from formless power—but you’re your own person now.

As I’m my own person, though my parents gave me shape.

Heck even Harmony tries to break free of the two Shards making him up  :

Quote

I find this difficult to do on an intrinsic level, as although I am neither Ruin nor Preservation, they make up me.

Shallan could have healed and the Three could still exist. In Harmony and Balance, stronger due to thier unity.

They might have been relegated more to the background .Or perhaps , though they share the same soul , could have ,  like Bavadin , done something new. 

She didn't need to be unmade at the least. And with so little mourning .

12 minutes ago, agrabes said:

 

So take comfort that Veil didn't die - she lives on as a better integrated part of Shallan herself.  

I recognize you (OP) probably viewed all this very differently from me and I respect that, but I think we should only view this as a positive.  The Veil personality itself wanted this event to happen.  If anyone wants to debate about whether what happened was medically accurate relative to real life DID, I'll leave that one up to the experts.  Personally, I was very happy with how this plot arc turned out.

 

Hmmm I don't know about the accuracy but veil felt real to me. I liked her more than I like Shallan.

And yes shallan will have her skills at cloak and dagger techniques but Veil had a completely different personality than Shallan. We won't see that again. 

But yes Veil herself wanted it. I hated that even more. 

Legion spoilers

Quote

Spoiler

 I had come to see her as one of Stephen's alters who view themselves as different from Stephen and are horrified at the prospect of death or integration

 

Huh but thanks. Still I am very very unhappy about this. I would have liked it if the Three were left untouched and if Veil and Radiant were able to exercise more autonomy .  

We have the art work here 

But well it could be slightly mangled seeing how rayse and tanavast's names are changed. 

And koravellium Avast sounds like a title than a name. 

But I think we could just call her Kora safely. 

44 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

This letter is likely written before Mistborn Era 2.  Therefore he can't chose Wax as an agent as Wax hasn't been forged yet.  It explains why Harmony did what he did to Wax, he needs him to be his sword.  I suspect we will learn a lot more in the Lost Metal, and this is likely why it has been delayed to this point.

Ok but as a champion or as a successor ?

I don't think it's wax or kaladin. It's probably someone we won't see until era 3

For those who know those highlighted words , this should be hilarious. 

I was right that Adolin won't become Radiant.

And that Thaidakar was Kelsier

And that we would get new shard names .

Veil is gone too. To Teft and Veil

So we see harmony say this . 

So is he seeking a champion or a successor to his Shard ??

My friends say he's looking for a champion /agent. 

I say he's looking for a successor. 

Now , if he wants a champion or an agent . He can choose from so many worthy candidates. Wax, Wayne , Marasi , Marsh , ten soon, re luur, Me laan, and perhaps others we haven't seen. 

There's really no reason for them to embody both preservation and ruin equally. Afterall Odium's choice of Champions in Dalinar and Kaladin seems strange since both needed to give up thier emotions and to be emotionless zombies to give thier willing consent to be his champion. 

It seems it's not very important that the Champion be of the same mindset as the Shard. 

Also , leshwi and the heavenly ones are Odium's agents even tho they are very honorable and not odious in any way.

These are  the reasons which make me believe  Harmony's looking for a successor. 

Like both Rayse and Taravangian fit Odium but Tod is more cunning and dangerous and perhaps more efficient at channeling the shard. 

Similarly I believe Sazed now finds himself to be locker into inaction due to being Connected to the shard but in the wrong way. 

He needs someone who will interpret the shard as Discord or well atleast someone who's like him but not locked into inability. 

I believe we will see Sazed give up the Shard in Era 3 to someone who he deems more worthy of it. Someone who can channel it more efficiently at war without becoming a tyrant like Rayse. 

Someone who like Taravangian or dalinar is better at planning and strategies. Someone who can kill to protect. 

Whatchu think ?

17 hours ago, Naerin said:

I liked him for how he represented Kaladin’s  struggle. A foe that keeps coming for you, again and again. A foe you can beat once or twice or three times, but which will keep coming back, until it ends you. I saw The Pursuer as kind of an external symbolic manifestation of Kaladin’s depression. Which was why the scene before Kaladin’s rage moment was so satisfying. Because he was basically saying his depression was never going to end him. He would defeat it not by making it vanish, but by fighting and winning EACH TIME it tries to take him down. 

Holy ......dang. Yeah 

As for my thoughts on lezian. Not much , I won't miss him , although I don't understand why the Fused were ok with killing him rather than some non functionally insane fused . 

I mean sure u could include lezian in  that category but he was still of some strategic use 

Ok Veil is dead . She is According to me. You might argue that she never existed , that she was just a hallucination Shallan made up but really is she ?

I had come to see Veil as a distinct individual from Shallan and she was. Now that she commited suicide and is "Integrated " with shallan , does it mean we will see shallan act like Veil ? 

Be all badass and rough and not care about propriety, hit on Kaladin. 

Wasn't Veil different from shallan ? She couldn't draw , couldn't use Radiance properly. It was more like she was a squire to Shallan rather than a part of her . If she really did Identify as Shallan she should have been able to just as good as Shallan in her radiant abilities. 

Regardless she was a different person. I came to see her as a different person and was electrified at a positive depiction of multiple personality disorder .  ( something also seen in the Legion novellas ).

I was looking forward to see Veil have a relationship with someone other than Adolin and the interesting relationship dynamics it opened up. 

But fine I guess that's tangential. But seriously just removing her like that . Integrating her as if she never existed. 

Man this is the part I hate the most about RoW. What the helll ??? I mean veil was someone . She might not have been a fully independent personality but to just brush her off like this without any form of closure or reactions from the others she knew. 

Idk seems wrong to me. 

I liked Veil and i think she's as dead as Tien . Sure she will keep on influencing Shallan just like Tien will influence kaladin but I find the suggestion that she wasn't real and shouldn't need a funeral or be missed by Adolin or the others to be extremely odious. 

Even if she wasn't real , the others she knew and we , the readers, saw her as someone different and as such I find the underwhelming reaction to her death/disappearance by both cohorts to be really disturbing.  

@Chiberty ahhh ok that works. Thanks