Karger

He is technically not a cultivation spren.

Don't think he is a helpful type. Besides. As an Edgedancer he could literally have sticky fingers.

I do have difficult expressing myself. I also have a bit of an issue when it is mocked or otherwise made to sound ridiculous. If you have questions about my meaning please ask them. This implies that you. They are being cultivated theory. Is likely wrong. At least our in world heroes think so. Yes which is a large reason I dislike your shards determine how people think ethical theory. It is a theory and if I happen not to agree with it(which I don't) that section of your argument breaks down. They have the Tec, it is confirmed that they have the magic, they currently have no problems at home, they are the most wealthy and technologically advanced and Brandon said he is not trying to pull a "got you!" on us. To me this all says Scadrian. To the best of my knowledge. Your counter argument is. There ethics sound more like this to me. Would this be an accurate summary of our discussion?

The two possibilities are not mutually exclusive. We don't know much about Autonomy's avatars.

Relevant WoBs.

I meant a hasty generalization. I miss copy pasted from my fallacy list that I keep while righting to stop me from making mistakes or to check if someone else is using faulty reasoning. I was making several different points and traveler thought that each time I made one point I was apply that some point to several other points on my argument. Please point as many out as possible. I want to correct them. A bit. Not quite the assuredness movement. Where? If they want to theorize that established beliefs are wrong they are free to say so. I gave an example that was clearly much stranger. My point was that you should not ignore evidence contrary to your theory. Which ones. I sight specific instances and quotes from the book multiple times. Yes and it should be. I recognize that I may not be likable. That my writing is often forceful. That your are a polite person. However heated arguments can when productively channeled be useful. If you have a problem with what I am saying point out where say why and ask me to edit. Same goes for you @Traveller

Bad phrasing also that is out of context. I meant that in their home world they have people concerned with ethics and doing right by others. These people are obviously not. Also you are now no longer attacking my argument you are attacking my rhetoric Ad hominem. This is not something permitted in formal debate. I think you are totally wrong and Dusk says that he agrees with me. The ones above are trying to advance them to quickly so that they can be treated as an adult civilization. "We will be childlike still, ignorant, but the laws from above will let the visitors trade with us. And then they will take this land for themselves." I seriously hope that by the time Roshar has FTL they outgrow the idea of empire and conquest. Also who on earth(or Roshar) would decide to put into a legal code. Go to war with people only after they have gained the capacity to do a bit more damage then they could otherwise do but will still inevitably loose. Please stop taking my posts out of contexts and actually read them. I never said or implied it. I was attacking two separate parts of your argument. Attack on Part 1. Laws about ethical treatment of others = Honor(not true) Attack on part 2. Harmony would not approve. Neither for that matter would Honor. However a shard does not determine its people's moral ideals. Also according to several in world characters in the Aha moment of the novella. Aha moments generally reveal truth. In Mistborn the Aha reavealed that you could combine two magic systems. This is true. In Warbreaker the Aha was about the 5 scholars. In SA 1 the Aha was Sadeas motivation. At the resolution of a conflict the readers should understand and be able to make sense of the conflict. If you want to put forward your own theory about the Ones above being secretly good guys feel free. I have one myself. This is all a test. The Ones Above are secretly monitoring everything remotely. If the people on the ground choose to take apart the machine and be lead along by them they leave and destroy the tec before they go. If they do what Dusk is doing then they keep playing the game as a way to make the ones below suspicious and innovative. However you can't just say my theory goes against the established narrative despite no evidence and you certainly can't use this to support another unrelated theory. Based on what we actually know/believe right now. I think Scadrains are the most obvious choice. You can disagree but please keep the established beliefs when you do so.

When her sister accuses her of knowing before hand what the forms of power do to you mentally she does not deny her. I don't think anyone wants to argue that young!Dalinar was a good person. Nooooooooooo!!!!!

That is not what I said at all. Roshar has people concerned with ethics but so does literally every other place or planet on or off earth. Few things are more important then ethical decision making. The fact that these people choose to do right by others does not make them Rosharan. I hate to say I am deeply troubled that you don't think the ones above are engaging in unethical behavior that the law is clearly designed to prevent. A lot of people have done some terrible things by claiming they are helping to develop those backward people over there. Modern examples include China's belt and Road initiative which is going to hurt a lot of people down the road. I am going to paraphrase but "the purpose is Harmony. Making a future in which the maximum number of people can have free will." Is literally a quote by Saze. But we can see the effect of their intents on their magic systems. Elantrains are highly devoted individuals and their power is region locked. Ethics is not a place were you can state objective truth but I am going to go out on a limb and say that I don't care what about the opinion of anyone who thinks if they can justify causing hardship and suffering to a group of people for personal gain. Even the cutthroat sees his actions as ethical after a fashion. See my above statement. Honor is dead we know practically nothing about Cultivation and I have difficulty understanding why you think that changes how a group of people would act. It is not like everyone on Threnody is supper ambitious. Sure but that is not what they are doing. This is actually more similar to entrapment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment I am not advocating for the execution of minor criminals or people who don't pay speeding tickets or do creative tax forms. However as I have been trying to point. An entire world will be considerable worse off as a result of these people wanting Aviar. These people obviously have laws designed to prevent colonialism which means they have experience with it. If that is a case they know how bad it is and they are likely willing to go to extreme lengths to prevent it. This indicates extraordinarily high penalties for those who break the rules or try to circumvent them. I said this in response to your. Brandon is not going to be obvious about it line. Most of those kinds of Transportation won't work for worldhopping. Spren are Roshar locked. Hoid himself is actually going to have trouble getting them off world.

Shardplate is fairly good against bullets but it will eventually crack. Two or three shots I think it was. Shardblades will kill lifeless. An awakener might be able to reuse the corps but they would need much more breath. With no alliances Scadrial wins hands down. Soothers and rioters should be able to take down lifeless no problem, Elantrains are nasty but aluminum bullets should kill them fairly easily and their are not that many yet. Also those that exist are not well trained. Finally they can only go so far from their power base. An opponent can just wait around outside for as long as they want. The Rosharans could be a problem but they only have about 100 people with Radiant abilities. Scadiral's population data indicates they will get about 2000 metalborn(I am not going to count fused they seem a bit to single minded to be useful and if Roshar brought any they would loose). Taldain's sandmasters can just be shot with snipers no need to get fancy.

Bondsmiths have Combos with everyone.

She willingly took choice away from here people not caring about the consequences provided it let her get what she wanted.

Not social law. Codified legalities. The fact that they follow the prime directive is an indication that someone on their home world did has a high level ethical framework and managed to get it codified into their legal code. I do not think that ethics are in any way exclusive to Roshar. Sure many people there are concerned with ethical decision making but the same is true for every other shardworld. This is almost certainly illegal. It is an attempt to circumvent the law unethically and I am fairly certain that if people at home found out the perpetrators of this scam would be in deep trouble. Or Endowment who wants to give everyone an equal chance. Or Devotion who wants to make everyone happy. Or Dominion who respects the boundaries of others. Or Harmony who wants to give everyone their own chance. Or Autonomy who wants everyone to live their own way... Think about it this way. What would the likes of Sadeas and young Dalinar do if they were the ones above. Just because a shard rests on your world does not mean that you will have similar ethics to that Shard's intent. Scadrains. They are actually close to figuring out how their powers work. No one on Roshar questions the surges or how they are related or what they do. Scadrians are also more wealthy, they are not in the middle of a desolation, and they have industrial centers. The Rosharans don't know how to build an oathgate. They just happen to have a few. Also Oathgate travel is just between two places. It will not build you a spaceship. Shrugs. Why not make it less obvious and have them be from threnody then? We know nothing about their magic system. Also. What the Ones Above are doing is highly unethical. They are also clearly trying to circumvent the law. Law is not a game. If I were a Rosharan lawyer I would have most of these people executed for what they are doing. The consequences of colonialism are terrible.

She almost exterminated her people!

Or for lack of a better word. A civilized way of thinking. It is generally speaking not possible to build and maintain a complex high tec society without some kind of laws and judicial processes. If you look at the world's most successful empires of the 18th century. You will notice that they all had some kind of law and that those laws were enforced. Britain became a predominate world power in large part because they could organize themselves on a large scale. This cannot happen without law either. Even today you will find that the countries with a strong rule of are considerately more technologically advanced and more wealthy then those without. The Scadrians possess the magic system easiest to use off world. They also are rather limited in what that magic system can do with only 32 powers available. The Scadrains are also the most technologically advanced and we know they will eventually figure out FTL travel. The Rosharans can probably make fabrails capable of doing almost everything the avairs can. They have laws against doing what they are doing. Trading with a native culture is forbidden. Dusk figures out that they are purposely being careless and leaving behind the things that they need to push them forward. This way they can be charged with negligence rather then a serious offense if ever caught. In this kind of conspiricy if one of them is caught "leaving" something for someone else to find they are in deep trouble.

She died because she testified at a trial that she knew was risky. She was murdered afterward and gained the name Blushweaver the Honest.

Just thinking about the real world though I am kind of surprised that Reshek's survival has not been exaggerated even more. However my point is that knock off lord ruler having magic and him having an overinflated ego and a propaganda mill are not all mutually exclusive possibilities.

I am thinking of this one. It is not really a force push. That is like getting hit with a wave. It is more like getting catapulted. Your speed instantaneously changes to a different speed the same way your position changes to a different position.

I feel like Cal!

TLRs assassination survival stories.

In theory the spren could be doing calculations. We know that there are two of them and that they are huge. That was my interpretation. Elsecalling in this section likely refers to the specific to and from shadesmar travel that gives Elsecallers their name(they are known to be the best at this). I theorized that this could be due to the fact that the relationship between both realms is not one to one. As a person who has studied physics to closely I would like to point out that velocity and position can sometimes be considered the same thing. I believe Jasnah added a few m/s to those people and that is what sent them flying.

Which we know to have been exaggerated. I am not saying that I don't believe I am just separating fact from theory.

Or just good reflexes and a well trained security force with a flare for the dramatic for propaganda purposes.

I think we are at a high derailment point. To get us back on track. Peacetime Dustbringers could make excellent craftspeople.

I know where it is but I was confused by the acronym. Thanks. I do in fact believe that all we have confirmation of is his longevity because it is true. Baon claims that he does things that no one else can but we have no idea what those are, what Baon means by that or that Baon is not being fooled somehow(not much of a possibility but still). This does not keep me from making theories. Also Autonomy if she wanted to could in fact probably make an avatar that was just long lived.