Oltux72

No. Do I believe foreigners with allegiances to a hostile power should be free to immigrate? Also no. Short of not splintering, in which case they will have to be taken up or become sentient, this is unavoidable isn't it? That looks like chosing a certain immediate danger in order to avoid a lesser potential danger. We know next to nothing about his commands. I presume you are referring to the one known Dawnshard. Adonalsium had components whose Intents clash. Drawing conclusions from that do not work. People own drills. That does not justify the conclusion that they want holes in everything. Adonalsium's political attitudes are a mystery. The Dawnshard was merely a tool.

The problem with that is that it turns atheism into a dogma. The absense of gods is no longer falsifiable.

Not as a full time organization, but Harmony has servants to whom Harmony wants Hoid to report to when he enters Scadrial the next time. Well, if you really believe in Trell and Trell calls for rebellion, then what? Put the corpses onto spasely populated worlds. I'd say that anarchism conflicts with common sense by leaving out a mechanism to maintain itself.

I'd say that their mission statement is right there in Secret History where Kelsier states that their ignorance already almost cost them everything and he is not going to let that happen again.

I doubt that, for using Fortune makes you specifically not see the future. The oddity of Hoid being somewhere without knowing the reason or an assassin being sent for Hrathen without knowing that he will turn traitor pretty much precludes seeing it. Odium also referred to futuresigt and Fortune as two distinct things. Sanderson needed a way to introduce precognition in general. The problem is that you have two effects you cannot distinguish that way. Do you win the lottery because you knew the numbers or were the numbers drawn because you picked them?

He is. As long as you stay on your world. He is happy to stay on his. He cooperates with Hoid, but he'd still be much happier if he went through "customs". Very well. I'd see him having less of an issue with a republic plainly overthrowing and executing their monarch than with a figurehead monarch. His reaction to the former would likely be to state that the weakling has gotten what he deserved. Survivorism (which we see hints as being the majority), Pathism, on the borderline Sliverism. Yes. I am not saying that Shards are unjustified in being territorial. I am plainly stating that they are. But they do. Allowing people on your wold to give allegiance to other Shards would give those Shards agents in your home base. You cannot allow that. The former, yes, the latter, no. No, for they did not have that power. The armed forces of the country had (and have) that power. No, for none of these miracles are specific and personal to those who create them. But as far as we know there are things only a Shard can do, like changing the Initiation of an Arcane Art. No and I had actually considered that one of the centerpieces of the Cosmere. Gods then are part of a multiverse, whose different parts have different laws of nature. That merely makes laws of nature be not fundamental. We merely would invent a new natural science concerned with understanding what determines the different laws in different parts of the multiverse. That is the key difference. In the Cosmere they are verifiable. Yes. Not fully. They do powerful things that you verifiably need to be a Shard to do. I must confess the my thoughts on this were a bit unclear and I did not formulate the point well. That I am afraid is a fallacy. Let's be honest. If Odium ever takes over Roshar, Venli and her people will be toast, just on general principle of eliminating traitors. Her neutrality means that she lets other people do the dirty work she benefits from. Not very honorable. That is a perfectly rational response to a difficult position. Her Intent is against giving up autonomy to join an alliance. But her survival depends on allies. So she goes and makes allies, literally. Personally I'd say the "Selish Solution" is preferrable to having the Cosmere ruled by Shards. Common sense I'd have said. The same Sazed who refuses to help even innocent children?

I would say that Kelsier is the likeliest head of the "splinter them all" camp (Harmony aside). The Ire may also hold that attitude. Technically that is likely correct. However, every other Shard would fit that description to him. So ... Yes I am afraid you are misrepresenting young Dalinar. He does not argue for absolute monarchy. His brother is an absolute monarch. Dalinar supported that position because it suited him. He saw no need to justify it. Indeed he likely saw a need to justify a form of government as a weakness. To him this is like discussing the moral aspect of putting pineapple on a pizza and he is one of those disgusting people who see this act as morally irrelevant. Yes Yes, but that does not preclude calling it a state. As folklore basically. Every serious religion acknowledges Harmony. They just see his role differently. I'd say Shards are territorial rather than in need of worshippers. Only in a single aspect. I, wielding an AK-47, am more powerful than a bear, while I have ammunition. This is because I am sapient allowing my species to create tools like that. Yes, I left out the requirement of sapience. But other than that, what but power can define a deity? Miracles. And those boil down to extraordinary abilities. Which in turn you may call a specialised form of power. But miraculous abilities may be a better definition. True, but imposing the other woud amount to denying gods or causality. Once gods are a part of the universe they must obey its laws or you sacrifice causality. Yes, but thereby you deny the veracity of part of the claims. What if he really resurrected the dead, created food out of nothing and healed the sick? They would claim power for themselves, but not all power. Elantris will always rule Arelon. That does not mean that the Elantrians will not be ready to grant the muggles in the satellite cities the right to make some regulations and elect mayors and respect their decisions within their limits. But Arelon still won't be a democracy, but neither will it be a tyranny with Elantrians lording over slaves. You mean the same Venli who brought doom on her people by acting without and against the wishes of her government and promised to not repeat her past errors?

He also came to the conclusion that knowledge and power are good things to seek. You will not get classical liberalism from him. Well, he will not look on as another Shard moves in on Scadrial. Yes. Anarchism is problematic as it has trouble saying how anarchism is to be maintained against people who oppose it and why people should not seek to unify to impose their will to their advantage. Dalinar used to be a nihilist. See his comments on why people go to war shortly before he got engaged. Related, but not the same. That is indeed a political goal some in the future of the Cosmere may pick. It does. Being weak implies that you better seek strength in numbers, which in turn implies that you need rules and enforcement. There is a good reason the few places which do have something close to anarchism are called failed states. They do claim divinity based on verifiable facts though. This question has an extreme likelihood of decaying into semantics. The same Sazed who works to keep the competition out? What else? What other objective attribute would define a divinity? Just a divinity, not a divinity worthy of worship, mind you. They make worlds. They exist outside of time and space. Just to list the obvious candidates. That is talking around the thing. You basically say that his basic claim was false. Can you deny the reality of god once you accept that he has a son? Tyrants? No. There is a regretable tendency to divide politics into democracy and tyranny. It is just that one man - one vote is unrealistic.

Yes, people becoming dependent on each other to make their group more autonomous. How shall I put this? Autonomy seeming to be the oddest among the Shards is no accident.

The Arcane Arts kind of hinder anarchism by undermining the equality aspect in the ideolgical underpinning of anarchism. I guess what you will get is a kind of independence movement, which Kelsier stands for. It would seek to emancipate man from the Shards, but that is not real anarchism. EDIT: I am afraid the term you are looking for would be secularism. In the Cosmere religion is partially a matter of empirical and natural sciences. They cannot have what we would term freedom of religion. If you pray to Odium on Roshar, if you are human you are a traitor and the other way round. But while the existance and commandments of the deities are a matter of science, the question whether humans should heed Shardic commandments is political. The key difference between us and the Cosmere is that the consequences of sins to us are either highly debatable or deferred to an unverifiable afterlife. That is just not true in the Cosmere. Cosmere atheism is not the same as our atheism. You may refuse to worship or obey Shards, but if you say that they do not exist, you are just wrong. However, these considerations do not tell you which men you should obey. And here the question of relative power arises. Basically how is a government supposed to work against people who have the powers of demigods and potentially god on their side? Sanderson's answer is basically in White Sand and it is bleak: You cannot. They could move against the Sandmasters only because somebody had assassinated most of them, even though Sandmastery is one of the weaker Arcane Arts.

All men are born equal. And there is the problem. The Metallic Arts refute that sentiment. It is just obviously and empirically speaking not true. And the difference is not gradual as with other capabilities. You are either metalborn or you are not. And secularism is also obviously impossible on Scadrial. It is clear that deities exist and do have a will. Separation of church and state is a joke or nonsensical on Scadrial. The ideological background of democracy as we know it cannot exist. While the ideological background of something close to classical communism, socialism or syndicalism can exist. I cannot resist. All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. (Mao) We just see demonstrated that groups with combat power cannot be discriminated against in a certain manner.

Scadrial never developed the idea of one man, one vote. Even Elend Venture with his ideas based representation on class, not numbers. They will not come up with a simple majority vote.

They are talking about accent in the book. The explanation was that he still knew that he grew up on another continent, so his mind figured that he should have an accent. Apparently Identity is also a property that determines the degree of influence of personality and experiences on Arcane effects, for storing Identity would presumably not blank his memories.

Or the reverse of Iyatil. A Rosharan who has spent a lot of time elsewhere and has returned with foreign tastes and manners.

Scandinavian. The one verbatim sentence we got was very Scandinavian. That is likely "Hann er konge". He is king. Not German at all. But even farther from Scottish.

Well, Waxillium Ladrian is presumably still wanted in New Serran for murdering a local noble woman. So him not starting a civil war is a dubious position. And that is what we would primarily see. We have a brewing civil war. And it is not clear on whose side Waxillium would stand. He has expressed certain sympathies for the Outer Cities in terms of trade policy. But what does that mean if they march on Elendel? (And they would have to. It is the transport hub of the Basin. The possibility of secession and a peaceful resolution does not exist at that point.) Now we are facing the awkward question of how such a deal acceptable to the outer cities would be implemented. (I hope we agree that the Outer Cities are basically making just demands). It cannot be in a democratic manner. No starving worker in Elendel would vote for a reduction of protective tariffs. It looks to me as if the Basin needs a new Emperor, but one who rules against majority opinion, if a civil war is to be averted. The question what is the right side of history is not so clear, except that it won't be a peaceful and democratic future.

The Southerners mean that the Basin now needs armed forces. If these are to be effective it does not need armed forces, but an armed force. That is not a stance Northern Scadrians can afford. To put it bluntly the very first ships that came over carried bombs. The Basin just underwent its version of the Sputnik Shock if you like historical analogies. The conflict of rich versus poor is an issue in Elendel. But the really pressing conflict in the Basin as a whole is center versus periphery. That is on the verge of causing a civil war. Given the population advantage of Elendel the solution to this would have to be less democracy and more centralisation. Add to that the need to form armies. The only people with some form of military forces are the nobles. You are entirely correct if you see the Basin in a prerevolutionary state. But who ruled France in 1790 and whole ruled in 1810?

The present state of the Basin cannot continue. They have no common government. With the contact to the Southerners and opening up the wider Cosmere this has to change. Hence the idea that the political future of Scadrial could be determined by its internal conflicts and clashing interests has just gone out of the window, I am afraid.

Very well. This is obviouslyy true and would preclude the identification, save for one aspect. Are we really sure that Ati's last words are recognition and mentioning the place he is reminded of? Or do we need to look at the idea that Vax was the last place he remembered as a conventional human being, hence Adonalsium was shattered in the fain part of Yolen, and he really expressed puzzlement at no longer being on Vax?

Kronos, Baldur, Osiris, ... Human mythology is full of dead gods. A definition of religion and deities that rules out most of man's religions and arguably the default by definition, which is polytheism, isn't really productive.

He is tall for a Rosharan. That pretty much rules out a Scadrian human.

Well, for whom? Odium was eager to make a deal that would allow him to leave. He would have spared Roshar. As for the ethics, well if you give your own money to charity, that is laudable. If you give money you hold in trust for somebody else, we call that criminal. It seems to me that Honor was closer to the latter than the former.

What did Honor think Odium was going to do? Learn to play bagpipes, write keteks and have tea parties? You chain a Shard wit a record of three dead Shards to your system and expect a peaceful future. If that is indeed true I must question Honor's basic mental functions.

After multiple wars with overall death rates over 90%? That is a peculair kind of win.

Who betrayed whom? Now, you may see Honor's action as the honorable thing for the greater good of the Cosmere. But he also unleashed hell upon Cultivation, the Ashynites and the natives of Roshar. The latter two he certainly did not ask for permission.