Child of Hodor

Taln didn't have a choice to abandon the pact like the rest because he died and his never having broken was critical to getting the other 9 to quit and essential to Odium's plan to get the long peace. They quit because he was the one that never broke and he died and was already back there giving them an excuse to abandon it. Unless Odium wanted all 10 to live and quit so that the Oathpact would fail immediately. Which would mean he didn't want the long peace and that was the backup plan because Taln screwed it up by martyring himself as he tends to do. He's not that mad at the Listeners because they saved his plan. If not for the Listeners abandoning Odium they would have been slaveform like the rest and Odium would have no Parsh to summon the Everstorm. Like Taln being "awesome" and never breaking helped Odium because it gave the other 9 an excuse to quit. He shouldn't be so mad at Taln if Taln played right into his hands and enabled his plan. Taln screwed something up for him, maybe not the long break. Alternate theory: Odium likes 9 because the Braize number is 9 (or Braize is 9 because Odium) and Stormfather confirmed Taln was the 10th Herald. He just hates the # There will be a twist, for sure. I fear he'll be book 10 since he spent the most time on Braize and his flashbacks would reveal the most about Odium. Alternate, Alternate theory: Taln never broke because he wasn't tortured ... in any of the Desolations! Odium had the Fused spare him, so that the others would think he was so resilient and then they'd abandon him. Couldn't Odium destroy a cognitive shadow or at least corrupt/hijack it? He can destroy a full shard and he's not part of the Oathpact. Maybe what trapped Odium in the system was an agreement for a proxy war where the Shards aren't allowed to directly attack the others "pieces".

That's a good way of putting it. Tien being a proto-radiant irks me just a bit. It's not a reveal that really tells us more about him and we really don't need to know anything more about him. Maybe in time Kaladin will realize Tien wasn't as happy as he seemed and that will mean something to Kaladin, but he already learned that about Shallan who he associates with Tien on some level. Gavilar proto-bonding the Stormfather and getting the visions goes a long way to explaining his character motivations. Tien is just Tien he's not cosmically important. He's important to Kaladin and he got killed and that's it. I'm biased because Tien never worked for me as a character. He just seemed like a symbol of innocence more than a person. /Anti-Tien Rant

No matter how many times you bring this up, I'm still not going to see how is relevant. Hating is what he does. Hating something doesn't mean not using it. Just look at the listeners It's not that he hates Taln, it's that he seems to hate Taln more than the other 9 Heralds. If the entire 4,500 year break was Odium's exact plan and Taln played right into his hands why would Odium rage at Taln's temple more than the Temples of the other 9 Heralds who all have temples in Thaylen City? Yeah, the Oathpact was designed to keep the Fused in and it didn't take into account the idea that they would just not try to get out for thousands of years. It didn't prevent the Fused on Braize from capturing and torturing the Heralds amd it wouldn't protect them from getting captured by the Fused and then not tortured for a long time. I think it took longer for him to break then Odium would have liked. Taln is the only one that didn't break between Desolations they could have misjudged how long it would take.

The old Ben Kenobi "From a certain point of view". I would be curious to know the exact wording, "interfere" is interesting. I wonder what mental gymnastics Odium and Autonomy are doing. Sazed wasn't part of the original pact, so the other Vessels can meddle with him all they want, but the Vessels of Ambition, Devotion, Dominion and Honor were. "Splintering isn't interfering!" "You broke the pact first!" "I promised not to interfere with the Shard, didn't say anything about killing the Vessel. Now that the Vessel is dead the promise no longer holds so I can splinter the shard and shove it into the cognitive realm"

Haha! I like this idea. *Honor pushes up glasses* "Well actually, we're common law married. Technically, in a legal sense we are one person/Shard."

We have some new WoBs from the Legion release party. One concerns the pact the Vessels made to settle on the same world together and why Honor of all Shards would disobey it. Is it as simple as Honor technically "settled" on Roshar first and Cultivation came after (maybe RIGHT after), so Cultivation was the one technically breaking it? I think generally the WoBs have indicated that H&C settled on Roshar together, but one may have come just before the other. We don't know the exact phrasing of the pact in order to determine what violates it or why they could break this one when Oathbringer stresses how Shards can't break their word. Maybe they made it before they held the Shards.

Thanks for this! Kelsier - good, he can sit out the front half of SA. The Fused - Interesting, I was sure the Fused were looking for an imprisoned Unmade like BAM or more black spheres. Did they want to corrupt the cryptic with Re-Sephir? Cognitive Creation - Maybe the Heralds were made Cognitive Shadows in this less invasive and less traumatic way. Infused with enough of Honor's power to "petrified tree" their Cognitive aspect while still in their bodies. Seems more Honorable. 9-centric Braize - this was one I was thinking of asking him if I go to a signing in November. I'll cross that off the list.

This recent thread got me thinking that it's plausible Taln still has his blade, he merely dismissed it and Hoid gave him a dead blade for the Alethi to steal, so they wouldn't get his Honorblade.

Broken One = Odium. Broken in the lesser used definition of broken. Despairing, hopeless, defeated. Odium is often associated with the void and an emptiness within. Moash feels hopeless, empty and resigned the more he falls under Odium's influence. It could also be subdued / defeated. He did get himself trapped in the system and his forces lost every Desolation so far. He got a W when he killed Honor, but he's racked up a lot of Ls since he came to the Roshar system.

He actually hated rocks He was trained to be a surgeon and a soldier, but had zero aptitude for or interest in either. Those aren't convincing lies, because anyone who was around him for five minutes could tell. But he was still living these lies every day.

Especially with Harmony unable to act as much as other Shards due to his power being the recombination of two Shards with opposing intents. Harmony would have to act to influence human behavior either through a reward or punishment system, to encourage or discourage what he wants or an intentional splinter like The Thrill which essentially riots certain feelings in humans. Even if he does gain greater ability to act, the way Harmony talks in Shadows of Self chapter 7, indicates he thinks he made it too easy for humans in the basin. From the progress the southern Scadrians have made he sees long term value in letting people struggle and solve their own problems even if there is conflict and suffering. @Quantus You're right in that he does send his agents to help avert the worst from happening. World war is less likely here than others. Unless the red space haze has its way.

Either Mistborn Era 1 or Warbreaker. Warbreaker has more direct major character connections, but Mistborn "The Final Empire" is a better book (Warbreaker is good though) and Era 1 eventually dives into the nature of the Shards a lot. I would go to Elantris last as it has the fewest overt Cosmere references and Brandon's writing has grown a lot since then.

I never said it was an entity ... I said the Stormfather was CONNECTED to the perpendicularity. Because he is connected to the remnants of honor now that honor is dead. I never said the Stormfather had been a perpendicularity pre-shattering ... I said he is connected to a perpendicularity because he absorbed Honor’s cognitive shadow. The cognitive shadow could only be absorbed after honor died.

Yep, you're right I was thinking of when she left the ship. I'm not saying the perpendicularity is within the Highstorm, always. The Stormfather isn't only within the Highstorm, as Brandon said he is more omnipresent than other radiant spren. My theory is the perpendicularity is connected to the Stormfather who is within the storms, but also other places at the same time and where the perpendicularity manifests may have to do with where he is focusing his attention at the moment. Sometimes within the highstorms and sometimes not.

She created her own. Her Surge of Teleportation is geared to do that.

I think Patji supports this idea. First of the Sun has a perpendicularity without having a Shard "in residence" or having ever been "in residence". It does still have enough investiture concentrated on the island Patji to create a perpendicularity, Patji's Eye. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Patji's_Eye Adonalsium's investiture could have been significant enough and concentrated enough on various planets to create perpendicularities even if the being Adonalsium was not hanging out on those planets.

I can see where someone would make a connection to Kelsier or Vin. Lift has some mannerisms that remind me of Vin, how she sits on the back of a couch in OB with her feet on a cushion. She's also short and scrawny due to malnourishment like Vin. I think that is because they are both orphaned street urchin thieves, not because they are literally sharing the same soul/body. This theory is wild! Me walking into this thread:

The Highstorm is not the perpendicularity, the Stormfather is or is connected to it. The Stormfather is/absorbed Honor/Tanavast's cognitive shadow (he's complicated/special ). He has connection to the remnants of Honor. The Stormfather rides the storms, but he is also running around looking for a Bondsmith to bond. Now that he has found one in Dalinar he is both with the Highstorm, but also with Dalinar. He's "a little more omnipresent". He's in multiple places at once and where the perpendicularity shows up in the cognitive realm may depend on where he is focusing his attention or mind. For instance, in WoK when Kaladin is left to be judged by the Stormfather, he seems to travel into a different realm briefly when the Stormfather looks at him. Then again Kaladin is pulled out of the Physical Realm when talking to the Stormfather in WoR Chapter 74: The Highstorm that spans the entire continent North - South when it passes over. The perpendicularity location may depend on where within the storm the Stormfather is actually hanging out or is focusing his attention.

Yeah he definitely feels the Thrill in Way of Kings during the plateau assault where he saved Sadeas. But he will then feel sick right after looking at all the corpses which is the proto-radiant bond kicking in. I don't have the book in front of me, but here is a summary of the chapter https://www.tor.com/2014/02/06/the-way-of-kings-reread-chapter-56/

This is somewhat of an aside, but I think the Hierocracy was a direct result of the visions Honor set up. Some of those other events like the Sunmaker trying to conquer the world may have been as well. It sounds like one of the ardents started getting the visions from the Stormfather and tried to unite the world by any means necessary. Then other ardents started pretending they received visions too in order to stake a claim at power. I'm convinced Odium wanted a long break and engineered it by leaving 9 of the 10 alive. I'm not convinced the entire 4,500 years was what Odium wanted. But even Taln thinks he is late getting back this time. Now he's been gone a ridiculous amount of time, but "late" implies in comparison to when he should have gotten back. Like he didn't get back as quickly after he broke as he did the other times. In the Way of Kings epilogue Hoid rambles on about timeliness being important and then when Taln shows up and gives his warning that the Desolation comes Hoid tells Taln that he might be too late. Like his warning about the Desolation is late. This doesn't necessarily prove that Taln was artificially held up in coming back or that most all the 4,500 break was due to that, but it does fit with that theory.

We don't know that the lesser voidspren all went back. We know the Unmade did not. We don't know why the Fused go back to Braize automatically if their bodies are destroyed, maybe because that is where Odium was "in residence" and once their physical connection to Roshar is broken via the body they inhabit being killed they are pulled back to where Odium is "in residence" on Braize. It could be the same for the voidspren that give Singers forms. Once their Singer is killed they are pulled back to Odium automatically. The Unmade may have a connection to Roshar from when they were Made before being Unmade. They are enough of a hybrid that they don't get pulled back. They also don't all possess or bond bodies. Yelig-Nar kind of does, but he kind of consumes people that consume him. Post WoR enough of Odium is in the Everstorm that the Fused and voidspren go back to the storm instead of Braize.

Rayse wants to be the most powerful being in the universe which is why he is knocking off the other Shards. He's been going after the Shards he was most threatened by including ones that settled on a planet together (Dominion and Devotion; Honor and Cultivation). Unfortunately for him while he got stuck in the Roshar system to Shards combined and now hold more power than him. He's taken out Vessels that held a single shard before, so he thinks he can take Cultivation. He hasn't had to take on a Vessel that held two Shards combined which is why he fears Harmony more. Autonomy would be a good villain. I don't think Rayse will survive the back 5 Stormlight Archive books. Odium will still be around, but combined with other shards or at least held by a Vessel who filters it in a less dangerous way. Someone who is practiced at reigning in his hatred like Kaladin would be a better Vessel.

Ah, that's true. Could be the Stormlight she used in front of him. I forgot that Shallan belongs to Ash's order, may have jogged his memory.

Kalak tells Nale in WoR prologue “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I’m getting worse.” He may be referring to them already being crazy from the torture and they didn’t go back for more torture. Yet they seem to be getting crazier. The loss of their direct connection to honor may be part of it. In OB Taln snaps out of his comatose state around the time Dalinar briefly restores Honor’s perpendicularity. We’d never seen him that lucid before. Then he goes back into his comatose state.

Yeah, that’s what I was trying to say with gaining the ability to heal the soul.