bmcclure7

Let me propose a solution to this predicament with a theory of my own that I think will work with yours. What if the wind and BAM are the same person? What if the wind is what’s left of preunmade BAM A splinter created right before she was unmade? Would explain why BAM seems to have similar abilities to a bondsmith spren

1.Well, if so, clearly their desire for freedom wasn’t very strong enough to make them act against their honor. Clearly the touch of the unmade increased it. 2. Yes, but those are overall exceptions analogy, still holds people naturally still encouraged to protect and care for children, especially their children. Yes people have free will so we don’t have to necessarily follow our national urges. But nonetheless, you get my point. 3. a desire to help someone does not equal a desire for freedom I don’t know why you keep bringing this up. 4. OK now you’re just nick picking. If someone doesn’t think like a human, then he doesn’t feel like a human fealings are product of your thoughts. Different thoughts different feelings. It doesn’t take me a rocket scientist to figure this out.

1.Yes That’s exactly my point, honor binds not some person or Spren but their own nature as splinters of honor and cultivation. I’m glad we finally agree. 1.since you missed my quote, I’ll give it to you again. “However, the Wind did not think like a person does. This should not surprise anyone who has familiarity with a spren, though such things are less common now than they once were.” 2. at this point you’re pretty much agreeing with me as you admit that was stopping them was there honor not some outside force. Same way a mother is bound to her child for by the nature of humanity.

1. It is frustrating how much you misunderstand what I am saying. I didn’t say they didn’t understand how freedom works. But understand how something works and having a desire to have something or different things. For example, I can understand what attracts someone of the opposite sex to my sex without being same sex attracted 2. I literally quoted the book where it said Spen are not people you might as well be arguing with Brandon at this point. 3. As I have already said many SPREN ARE NOT ALL THE SAME!!!!!!!! Just because one type of spren has an desire for freedom does not mean that applies to all Types of spren so please stop arguing that x is true for all spren because it is true for the sibling. @LewsTherinTelescope 4. What they want freedom from is irrelevant I repeat IRRELEVANT it doesn’t change the point that if they wanted to freedom they could’ve easily had it. They could just as easily have the same policy that have now They would simply have to announce to everyone that they would no longer would be stopping anyone from coming through. They didn’t because according to them, it went against the fundamental rules of their nature. Now their nature has been changed, allowing for them to contemplate other options.

I’m confused since when were the Soren ancient fabrils trapped ? don’t call them ever saying that was the case at all. And be quite honest it makes no sense for them to be trapped. When a spren becomes a shard blade it doesn’t get trapped in that form. It just switches back to its original form. So presumably a soul caster or a oath gate could do the same thing at any time. 2. we heard the sibling be concerned about humans enslaving spren. She does not speak for the spren as a whole, how could she? The Spren are nearly as different from each other as they are from humans. 3. The oath gate spren we never slaves to humans because they never serves humans they served the sibling. And sometimes in its absence the storm father. When they say that they are free, they don’t mean free from humanity, but free from the sibling, and by extension the war between honor and odium

1. yes, you did by saying that they couldn’t get free on their own. You’re implying that someone or something is holding them there. 2. That just goes towards my point it is the nature of ink spren to follow the rules unconditionally. They don’t think about freedom because that’s not in their nature. They are not by nature free. Any more than I am by nature a squirrel. This is not a bug gets a feature. For them to suddenly be all about freedom they would have to be changed fundamentally.

1. I think we’re talking past each other at this point. My main argument was that what others had said this change and sprint isn’t the result of a conversation but them being fundamentally changed by the unmade. that is to say they have been enlightened or corrupted by the unmade, and not merely had a conversation with her about freedom 2. I assume that we have chosen freedom wasn’t about being corrupted, but about leaving the gates open. 3. I’m not disputing that she doesn’t change intelligence sprint without their consent. 4. Your analogy is faulty. It assumes that the spren Were somehow forced to be Oath gates that is not the case certainly sibling is not forcing them to do this. And if they already wanted, treat them then why would they have to be changed? Remember the unmade didn’t do anything to change their circumstances, but instead to change them. Your analogy also implies that there was something wrong with them originally that they were somehow sick or unhealthy that is not the case. A better analogy would be someone going to a doctor. To remove their sex drive, or perhaps if they were asexual to boost their sex drive. The analogy also implies that they went to the unmade instead of the other way around, which is not what we see

1. I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying. I’m saying that they were indeed changed by the unmade. This is not a change that happened with mere words rather They were fundamentally changed by the unmade using her powers on them. If you’re not disputing that fact, and then we pretty much agree. 2. you’re assuming that what they wanted was freedom they could’ve simply wanted to change. And then desire for freedom came after the change. If they just wanted freedom, they could’ve been free at any time. It’s not like they were being held hostage. More likely what they wanted to was to want freedom. Like a man with no artistic appreciation may want to experience the world to the eyes of a great artist.

Now I’m confused are you saying that they are sick or that someone is holding them hostage? regardless, I think you’re only demonstrating my point something had to have been done to them. A doctor doesn’t cure your cancer by trying to persuade you not to have cancer. I think at this point we’re saying the same thing but with different words.

Because if they did, they would be no need to corrupt them. In fact, there would be no need to get the in fact there would be no need to there would be no need to get the unmade involve that all. Clearly, “they just wanted to. “ It’s too simple and explanation. Even if it is part of the answer.

If that were the case, there would be no need to corrupt them at all she did corrupt them which indicates that the corruption was necessary on some level for them to make this decision. Perhaps she partly corrupted them and then they allowed her to continue completing the process.

as I said, in the earlier, comment the humanity of Spren varies. For all we know the same could be said for the Heralds. But regardless, this is just speculation. We can only speculate about the Heralds because we don’t know enough about their condition. They seem human enough, but they but some of them are definitely developing some Spren like characteristics (Nale). I could go on here and discuss what could be happening to the heralds my point is that we can’t compare an immortal cognitive shadow to a regular person. Could you point to a single human who can endure a millennia of boredom or torture? Heralds not withstanding do you honestly believe that is within human capabilities? 1.You mistaking being a person for being human. These are two different things. 2. Actually appearance does matter remember that Spren look the way they do because of how people perceive them. This is why the older spren have four genders while more younger ones have two. This affect more than just their body but their entire being. Put it simply if people perceive something to be more human then the corresponding spren will act and look that way. Put it another way. What a Spren looks like, gives a hint as to how it is perceived which intern gives a hint to how it’s entire being function. 3. No, I’m not saying that super inkspren don’t have feelings, emotions or desires. I’m saying that you can’t assume that those emotions feelings or desires are the same as a humans or emotions, feelings or desires. as humans we cannot understand why cryptic find numbers so beautiful. We cannot understand why Spren could be content standing in one position for thousands of years because ultimately they are not any more than we are cryptic or ink spren. Our thoughts emotions and desires are simply different from each other. The ink spren were content with their job for thousands of years they aren’t anymore given what we know from the unmade, it is because they were changed on a fundamental level level so that their desires thoughts and emotions would be different. @Windrunner22 let me let the book itself speak on the matter concerning the difference between humans and spren However, the Wind did not think like a person does. This should not surprise anyone who has familiarity with a spren, though such things are less common now than they once were.

They changed yes but not for no reason. To change, they must be changed. Or do you honestly believe that the unmade just went and talked to them? Not an example at all, for 1 the Harolds are not human. Even the spren consider them Spren. And even if they were, I would point out the nine other Harold as a counterpoint.

Counterpoint, how exactly?

As I said it varies by spren type. Honor spren look the most human so we shouldn’t be surprised that they act for the most human. Let us contrast honor spren with oath gates spren. The gate Spren have stood silently at their post for thousands of years. That right there should tell you that they have a different psychology than humans. no human could have done that even if you were immortal. Eventually, the boredom would get to him. If the oath gate spren or psychologically any anywhere close to human there would be no oath gates. However the Spren stood silently at their post without complaints without and without speaking about choice or freedom. Do you really think it’s possible for humans to go thousands of years out even contemplating the idea of being free. Very fact that they find freedom appealing now when they didn’t before demonstrates that they have been changed on a fundamental level so that freedom is now appealing to them.

As in said it depends on the Spren type. remeber Spren ARE NOT HUMAN they are living ideas. nevagation and enterprise does not mean that they think like humans syl and others have a bond with humans with as we have seen with the storm father changes them into more human. So YES she did change on a fundamental level because of the bond same with the stormfather.

We know she does more than that. We know that she changes them. Because their bodies fundamentally change. After being corrupted. They are no longer considered to be the other the same type of spren as they were before. Just look how Rinarin Spren is physically different from a mistspren enough that you can see the difference. What is happening if she’s fundamentally changing their natures which results in changing their minds. Remember that spren are not human. it takes more than just talking to them to get them to change their minds. You have to change them on a fundamental level . Additionally They don’t necessarily want or need the same things human want or needs. Things like freedom are not necessarily something spren want or understand depending on the type of Spren. it’s unlikely that the spren ever thought about freedom until after they were altered by the unmade.

I wouldn’t call them educated because for she doesn’t educate them she changes them on a fundamental level you can call that enlightened or corrupted depending on whether you think the changes is good or bad but you can’t call mere education

We don’t know it’s difficult we know that the knowledge on how to do it is not widely known. There’s a trick to it we don’t know if that trick is so it actually could be really easy if you know how. Five kids and 15 years is not hard. My own parents had more than that in less time. honestly, the families in the Cosmere are unnaturally small. it’s probably my one complaint as I feel it breaks immersion. Smaller families is a very very modern phenomenon so it feels weird to see small families all throughout the cosmere. I understand why Brandon does this as it would make the cast even larger if he didn’t, but still, it is kind of immersion breaking for me.

What could you possibly have against Sylain?

I can answer this one. We know that the returned can have children the annotations of war breaker confirm it there’s just a trick to it. So theoretically, any cognitive shadow could figure out the same trick and then have children. You’re confusing me what do you mean by she’s dead? She’s has a living body. She has a living mind. Her soul hasn’t gone to the beyond so in what way is she dead? As far as I can tell. Chana is very much alive. No spiking uterus required.

Actually, it makes me wonder if she will be starting her own faction. Now that Odium is dead, I could see todium allowing her to go free and start her own faction with her Spren not on either side

Not sure about vengeance it feels too personal, less honorable.

It seem to act like it is sureblood through

I think I’ve cracked the case I can now harmonize sunlit Man with the epigraphs, and it all comes back to chapter 10 and vorinism We know that Brandon likes to make his religions true are at least based on truth. We can assume that vorinism is no exception so what is the truth behind vorinism? In chapter 10, we see that at least some animals that bond with Spren seem to live on after they die as Spren so what if the same is true for humans what if a 5th ideal radiant can live on as some kind of Spren after death. Vorin theology teaches that if you are really good at your “calling “ you can join the heralds in to fight the void bringers in the afterlife what if originally it was that if you are really good in your order and reach 5 ideal you can become a spren after death and fight the voidbringers in the cognitive realm? what if that is the future of the knights radiant they all swear the 5th ideal Becoming Spren and go to damnation to fight the void bringers? This would explain much would harmonize what we learning about the orders in Sunlit Man, and the epigraphs in insistence that the Spren have retreated from mankind. It would also explain why back half it said to be focused around the Harolds not the knights. Am I crazy or am I perhaps on to something?