Oudeis

1. While I'm all for technical accuracy, a lot of people skim these threads, especially when they get to be as long as we've made them, and a lot of people will glance at what you wrote and believe it's solid evidence that Elhokar cannot Surgebind. For this reason, when I feel compelled to point out trivial details, I try hard to make it clear that the underlying point I'm "arguing" against remains entirely valid; I suspect you think that saying "I'm being pedantic" covered that, and my only point is that I think you'd be more clear if you used words that more people know. 2. Yes, it seems obvious that he sees Cryptics. So does the entire crew of the ship Shallan's on; Pattern doesn't appear able (or willing) to hide from humans. I'll grant Elhokar's case is slightly different, but most of the people we've seen in the series so far have been unique. Rock, for example, can see all spren. Kal sees the bindspren that Sigzil cannot. Lift's stomach extends into the cognitive realm. Perhaps Elhokar's eyes do. Perhaps seeing Cryptics is an aspect of his (presumable) Honorblade; maybe he bears the Blade of Shallash herself, the Herald associated with Cryptics. Actually... I really like that theory. I'm gonna go ahead and suspect that now. 3. We've seen that Szeth's Blade changes his eye color. Taln's eyes, when he wielded his Blade, did not glow or turn light. Because he's a Herald? Because he just got back from Damnation and boy are his eyes brown? Because each Blade is a unique work of art, and since that was Kalak's viewpoint maybe he didn't mean actual forged metal-working; maybe, familiar with the capacities of the Blades themselves and the process that made them, he means they're works of art in the abilities they grant, the traits they manifest, that sort of thing. (Note: Just re-read the passage. After saying "works of art" he immediately follows up with "flowing of design" so it does imply he's talking about how they look). 4. When my eReader stops acting up and lets me turn the page, I'll check on this "instant summons" thing, but that could easily be the difference between a Herald and a not-Herald. Remember, there's something unique about the Heralds if they've survived all this time without their Blades, and the Blade does bond to a person. Syl gets something back from Kal in exchange for what she gives. Presumably, the Shardblade bond works in a similar manner; perhaps a non-Herald does not have to give whatever it would take to let Honorblades be instantly summoned.

Yes Susebron did it with no formal training.

I realize you thought you were being clear when you admitted it was pedantic, but in the face of people actually believing that the lack of evidence is proof of lack, you might have sown less confusion if you were more careful to express that my central point, the fact that this entire issue is made the next thing to meaningless in context, was still valid. Whether Elhokar can Surgebind or not, we would very likely never have seen him do it. The fact that we haven't is as insignificant to the question at hand as my personal lack of seeing a rhino is to their existence.

If you're sitting indoors with no way of knowing whether or not it is raining outside, that is not evidence for or against rain. It's simply a lack of information. I have never seen a rhinoceros; is this evidence that they don't exist? We've barely seen Elhokar, he's frequently in Plate which, even if you don't accept that Szeth has an Honorblade, is still a thing which we know may interfere with some Surgebindings, and we've never had a first-person perspective on him. He could be surgebinding left and right, and we'd never know; literally everyone we've seen with access to Surgebinding keeps it as secret as possible (up until they are commanded by a non-surgebinder to kill everyone in fabulous, spectacular ways). Something can only count as evidence for one side of an argument, but not everything has to count as evidence for either side. Let's say I can see that it's raining outside: Is this evidence for or against the existence of rhinoceroses? A man walks past and he's chewing gum. Which brand of gum would make it most likely that he was born in Nebraska?

I'm not sure we know why, but 10 and 16 have been huge numbers for him in most books. 10 might be even bigger. All of Surgebinding, the original Allomantic Chart, number of Shardworlds, there are a few others.

Oh. Yeah. That one's got nearly 200 posts already. I do not have so much free time that I'm going to read all that.

It's possible you're overconfident? Syl is guessing at the name of something, Venli is trying to translate old words remembered by the dim-witted, and from that you're making wild assumptions. Stormspren resulting in stormform is an easy connection to make, but 1. we don't know that they're stormspren, and 2. what's easy or obvious isn't always right. Why would stormspren show up when Eshonai was angry? There wasn't a storm in sight. When you feel victorious, you don't get lightspren or awardspren; you get gloryspren. Rainspren show up when it rains, not when you're sad or worried. In addition to which, we know almost nothing about how the listeners change form. We're guessing that it has to be done during a highstorm, it seems to have something to do with spren, and it impacts their songs. That's about it. Starting to claim that you're an expert, that certain conclusions are obvious or easy when you've got nothing to base it on, is premature.

How long was Kaladin able to Surgebind before he actually did? Shallan? Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. We've never had an Elhokar viewpoint, that I know of. Maybe he's been plagued with spheres going dun and bizarre phenomena related to surface tension all his life and just hasn't made the connection. There was a main thread? Which was that? Sorry I missed it. There were ten Honorblades. Szeth, I suspect, has Jezriens. Taln, I think we all agree, has Taln's. That leaves eight others which Elhokar might have.

I believe there's a quote somewhere, something about trying to "cleanse" a metalmind, which said that if the metal of a tinmind were alloyed into pewter, the change in feruchemical "signature" would wipe it clean of stored senses. Presumably, changing the atomic structure would have a similar effect. I could be mistaken, or I could even be remembering the original quote wrong.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not positive we're not just debating matters of degrees here. Sarene had a moment when she suddenly realized that first engagement was a sham, and that she would never find love, and it changed her life at least as much as Raoden's mother, whom he never mentions, changed his. And my point is simply... these crises of personality are what authors have been giving readers forever. I'm not sure that I buy that "a trait that functionally everyone has" is this super-special thing. What about that random housewife Raoden recruited into New Elantris? Or the spoiled little girl? Did "needing a wig" really fracture her very soul?

Adolin fought in Ironstance. The eighth essence is Foil, aka metal.

Darkness acts very oddly all the time. I agree with you that he's acting oddly in this scenario, but your extrapolation from that is, "therefore, it's the way a rational person with all the facts would act," and I don't think I agree with that assessment. I like at least 90% of the oddness of his interactions with Lift comes from how odd her personally is, not from a greater truth about Radiants/Heralds.

Exactly. Not to mention, the Plate that Salinor wears is physically described, and is entirely different from Elhokar's Plate.

We're allowed to discuss the chapters released today, yes? Spoilers just in case. Yes, this was exactly my point. People saw Eight Base Metals and Two High Metals, and that raised flags for almost no one. It seemed to make perfect sense. It just wasn't right. I wouldn't be surprised if Blades prove to be the same thing: everyone thinks they know how they work, and everyone will be proven wrong. Same spoiler warning as above:

But you're ignoring my basic point; "something tragic" has happened to almost every major character and an enormous number of minor ones, not just in every cosmere book, but in just about any novel ever written. By this definition, "a broken soul" is more-or-less the baseline for a person living in a novel. It begins to strain credulity that anyone could ever have spent any time unSnapped, if that's all it took.

Meh. "I lost my mom and my dad is distant" is... I mean, obviously less than ideal, but not exactly "irreparable trauma." Every protagonist, antagonist, or half-way interesting minor character will have some kind of sad event in their past. I don't know that this really proves anything. Raoden's father is clearly deeply insane; why doesn't he get magic? Sarene is Teoish, very devoted, and has the lifelong trauma of her bad relationships, punctuated by failed betrothals. Why isn't she taken by the Shaod (for real)? I'm just saying. Sure, everyone who gets magic has had something tragic happen to them. So has... almost every other major character, with or without magic.

Do you have a quote for this?

oooooh.... I suppose I was basing it partly on the fact that Mr. Sanderson has flat-out confirmed that Bloody Tan was not a Seer, rather than RAFOing it. I thought that meant, for sure, no more naturally occurring Seers. I was over-confident. Back to my original point: So there's no reason to assume there aren't Seers today, which means there might very well be atium ferrings who simply don't realize they've got this power. In fact, someone could be an atium compounder and not realize.

Oh thank God you went this direction. I saw these four words and was afraid we were in for NSFW fanfiction. That that stuff belongs on the tumblr.

I... thought we did? I'm sure there's a WoB saying that Leras swapped it out so that Atium and Malatium mistings would Snap and Cadmium/Bendalloy ones would not, and I swear there was one saying that Sazed changed it back. Maybe I'm mistaken.

(sic) Thank you, Aztec.

More thoughts: Adding hemalurgic spikes to mechanical allomancy gives your machine "The Flaw," allowing you wireless access (i.e., you can use emotional allomancy to take mental control of it).

There's a website called "Theoryland" which is apparently not terribly easy to search, though easy enough to browse. If you think you recall a particular quote, I personally just google "theoryland <relevant words from the quote>" and hope I luck out. Or, if you do want to find a specific quote, there are a lot of Sharders who excel at searching that site, and love reputation, so I usually just post, "upvote if anyone can find this quote" and they've typically found it while I'm still trying to sift through my google results.

ooooo... interesting. So perhaps you notice if you're Soothing with/against someone? A fascinating second example. Thank you, Tarion!

What you're referring to is what is known as The Flaw. Ruin deliberately built it into hemalurgy so he'd have direct control over hemalurgic creations; the "resistance" and the weakness are all part of this system which was made for the express purpose of letting Ruin control these beings. Most people who "resist" emotional allomancy don't do it through force of will, they do it with intelligence. They realize their emotions are being manipulated, and so deliberately make decisions based on logic, as devoid of emotions as they can. It can be hard to focus through powerful emotions, but doesn't require "inhuman feats of will," just a rational mind. Also, I think it's far more likely that "determination" is the feruchemical trait that would have the effect you mentioned on emotional allomancy. When you store determination, it's probably easier for people to influence your emotions. When you tap it, I would suspect it's harder for people to change how you feel. Just one man's opinion. Keep thinking!