Ixthos

... You tease! :-P Part of the problem is I am trying to keep this setting isolated from the meta setting, and their are certain things that tie into space that potentially could connect it too strongly too early to the meta setting. But then that might actually be helpful, especially with the ideas I have for later stories involving them climbing out from the bottom of the well as it were, and seeing what has been happening in other universes, and the purpose of the colony they were intended to found. All that is a side issue though. For myself, depending on how far towards linking to vs controlling the poll goes, if space is used there can be some fun things done involving Distance Direction, and Dimension and affecting sensing and movement. As well as the idea of drawing energy, and the impact of warped space on time.

It might be a little early to make this, and I hope this isn't cheesy, but I would like to wish everyone on the shard, especially the Moderators and Admin, a happy new year! Thank you especially to the Moderators and Admin, who help keep the shard running, and keeping it civil :-P who are friendly and warm, understanding, and show great restraint. Thank you all, I also hope you had a great day on Dec 25th, whether or not you celebrate that holiday, and I hope this time of the year has been a blessing to you. God bless, and grant you health and joy in the new year! (Also, should I tag the mods, or would that bother them? I would like them to know we appreciate them, but in the right way.) Likewise, I wish each and every one of you who reads this, whether or not you are a Moderator, also have a safe and blessed day on Thursday evening / Friday, and may the new year be a blessing to you also.

Hmmm ... interesting take. I like the idea of glowing humans for underground - and if they make it I'll name them SomSel ;-) - and I was planning on the flying type to be more like gliding, but that is still ... (upintheair) ... sorry :-P I also am trying to keep them sufficiently different from another species in another universe, but the idea of different wing types being a thing between cultures could be interesting. I like your idea of insect type wings though - I want to keep the morphologies consistent, and there are many different types of insect wing. I might use an idea from another species which has insectoid wings along with feathers, but I'm waiting until later before making any fixed decisions. The gills for the aquatic, unless I make them more like dolphins as you suggest, would be along the sides of their bodies, but I am leaning more towards them whale-like. I'm not a huge fan of a fin on the head though - I need to see how they would move through the water, and then determine where a fin would go. I am also wondering if I should bring them more along a crab route, though this is still early, and they could go either way. Because the aliens so far are fairly neck and neck, I might take the ones which don't make it and split some of their traits with those that do, so have some of the plant alien's have minds be exiles in the city, being a species that is present on a few worlds and some were forced to flee, etc. Mainly I want to integrate them rather tightly into the story, and so I'll only make a decision once I've closed the poll and mulled over the choices for a few days - until then, I don't want to speculate too deeply as the poll could suddenly change which ones are in the lead as others vote. I am planning to make another post outlining other possibilities for the poll when it is closed though, so if the votes had gone differently what other species or humans could have been the result.

Such as? :-P I am already forming an idea of a somewhat abstracted fighting style involving drawing properties from space, including sensory and movement related, and applications of redirecting enemy attacks by changing the distance, but if you have any suggestions I'd be interested in hearing them. Even if they don't make it into this system I am hoping to make another topic later which covers the other possible outcomes of the poll, including possibly linking space and time.

Good point - its already confirmed that Aons and metals function in a similar way in that the atomic shape of the metals is supposed to be like an Aon channelling the Dor, so it probably does tie to a core set of rules with BioChroma just resembling the Dawnshards because of similar mechanics that the others also posses, but a layer or two away.

:-P I am watching a playthrough of it, but based on what I know about the plot and the game mechanics (... biting off your own fingers ... and what the Practical did ... :-( ) I can't bring myself to play it. Still, from everything I've seen it is an amazingly well told story. Also, the villain was voiced by Tony Jay - his voice is one of the greatest voices in acting! Megabyte was a great villain in ReBoot too.

"Omae wa mou shindeiru!" ... not really

Though that does raise a question of how much influence she has over the magic - did she choose to make the magic command based, or is that how it manifested because, as the concept of Endowment, her magic would match the endowed dawnshards?

This theory is brilliant and raises an interesting question: does that mean the Fused are violating the pact? That the Fused are sidestepping what is allowed, and so able to use this fact, that Taln never gave them leave to return, to rebind them back to Braize? Not confronting them and demanding they leave, but rather like they are still tangled up in threads that Taln's breaking would have severed and if those threads are pulled they would be sent back to Braize?

A quick note: I haven't played DnD or a table top role playing game before, though I think some of them are fascinating. This is from the perspective of someone who has never played Planescape - or the video game Planescape: Torment - though who has looked up information on it in the past, and this is something I find interesting. This topic relates to spren, the cognitive realm, the regions therein, and the idea of the outer planes in DnD, and to a concept from 4th edition DnD. From what I've been able to gather, in Planescape in DnD, there are several types of planes. I would like to talk about a few of them quickly, being the Prime Material Plane, The Outer Planes, the Astral Plane, and the 4th edition concept of the Astral Sea. Also, a brief mention of the Elemental Planes and Elementals. And Sigil. In DnD the general ideas and beliefs of the inhabitants of the prime material plane - the physical universe, or perhaps physical universes, so not just one but many, and the different worlds and planets within them - combine and pool together into planes of reality representing certain ideas and groups of ideas, which generally reflect the alignments. So there are nine planes outside of the prime that represent each of the general alignments in DnD, being lawful good, neutral good, chaotic good, lawful neutral, true neutral, chaotic neutral, lawful evil, neutral evil, and chaotic evil, and eight planes that represent the disparity between adjacent ideas. Each is an entire world shaped by the beliefs of the inhabitants of the prime, and when someone in the prime dies they travel to one of those planes based on their beliefs and alignment. Those planes are inhabited by being which are made from the material that composes the outer planes and reflect those beliefs, being native to those worlds and thus funding the prime alien even though the ideas that shaped the plane originate there, due to the fixed nature of the prime that isn't affected by belief. Connecting those planes to the prime (and maybe to one another, I am not sure) is the astral plane, a plane that has no size or dimension but seems to itself be based on belief. It connects the outer planes of thought to the prime plane of matter. In DnD 4th edition that plane and the outer planes were combined together, in a sense - if I understand it correctly - making the outer planes islands in the astral sea, places of thought floating in the sea of ideas. DnD also has the idea of the inner planes. While the prime material is also an inner plane, there are also the inner planes of the elemental planes and energy planes. Those represent the ideas of elements that underlie reality, not belief but substance. Those are inhabited by elementals, which are also formed from the substance of the plane they originate from, and likewise find the prime strange, though in the sense that it is a combination of multiple elements rather than being "pure" like they are. Finally, in Planescape, there is a city called Sigil, which sits in the Outlands, the true neutral outer plane, at the top of a spire and connected by portals to every other plane, serving as a hub for planar travel and a place where beings from every plane can mingle without the risk of war breaking out due to the warden of that city, a being called the Lady of Pain who controls the city and can trap or kill anything, including the settings gods, if they try to interfere with the city or bother her. So, how does this relate to the Cosmere? Because I think the cognitive realm, and the idea of subastrals, is partially a mirror to this element of DnD done in a more rigorous and grounded manner. The different planets in the Cosmere have their own beliefs, but rather than forming new planes, they form the shape of the cognitive realm - the subastral - of the planet (though it isn't clear if subastral refers to the cognitive realm for a single planet, or for an entire solar system). Indeed, each named region of the cognitive realm is evocative of an ethereal, otherworldy place, such as Shadesmar, the Expanse of the Vapours, the Expanse of Vibrance, the Expanse of Densities, and so on. Each name implies something unique and strange about each location, and the two we have seen are indeed alien, and while similar to one another in some ways they certainly are different in others. Each in theory shaped by the beliefs of the planets' inhabitants into something unique, and possibly further shaped by the shards, or by the Power of Creation before that. More than that, each also potentially could have inhabitants who are unique and uniquely shaped to each world. We already know about spren, and seons and skaze are likewise beings theoretically more in tune with the cognitive realm than the physical realm. Beings who, in Roshar's case, seem like a mixture between elementals and outsiders, not made of the elements but the idea and belief about the elements. Indeed, I think voidspren then can be seen as a type of outsider also, and ones different to the Rosharan type. Of course, not every planet has spren, and Roshar is unique in that the number present are due to Honours death, but if stormlight is getting exported off world, it wouldn't be a massive stretch to think that the spren which have already left the system - which we know is possible though not common - could potentially form communities on other subastrals and become subsequently shaped by the inhabitants beliefs into new types of spren, ones reflecting the nature of the worlds they now inhabit and the investiture they may feed upon. In this sense the cognitive realm - shadesmar, the sea of thoughts - is like the astral sea, and the subastrals are the outer planes, only not grounded in another abstract world but in the layer of thought around a planet and connecting the planets, worlds of belief grounded around the sources and targets of those beliefs. And, of course, the dead who are able to hang around become a part of those subastrals also. What of Sigil? This is a stretch, and we don't know if FTL portals are possible in the Cosmere, but I think Silverlight might be the equivalent, unless there are more cities in the cognitive realm (which I doubt. And once again, I will say I am convinced that Silverlight is built on top of Ambition's corpse). A city in the middle of this sea of worlds, a trading hub where people from different worlds can meet. A place which potentially opens up the rest of the Cosmere for anyone from any world to reach any other. What are your thoughts? :-)

@Scarletfox Sorry to hear about your sister and your family and you :-( but I am glad she recovered :-) I hope your Christmas party does well!

Correct :-) Hmmm ... and their swords glow ... and the most famous gems in the world glow ... are the elves actually radioactive? :-P Also, yes, that would be cool, though a little frightening :-P I like in The Fellowship of the Ring when Sam sees the lady Galadriel's ring as a glow, a star among her fingers I think it was described as? There is a lot of light imagery around elves.

Indeed! I agree Manwe is the mirror in the sense of being the true leader and strongest of the loyal Valar, while Morgoth is the absolutely strongest and the rebel, in a sense with Manwe as the Archangel Michael, and Morgoth as the rebelling Satan. There are a lot of potential parallels, though also remember that the two Maia in the service of Aule that we know of eventually rebelled, so in a sense Morgoth could be a mirror to both Manwe and Aule, or to all the Vala in that he had a hand in trying to corrupt everything they made.

For spoken words it mainly is intended to be a unique language, but more in the sense that - if spoken words are used - trying to make sounds that correspond to the resonant frequencies / beats of the different parts of the Outsiders, or are close enough even if in the wrong frequency, but are an integer multiple. Basically trying to match the frequency to allow them to manifest partially. Written words would also be a factor, but lets see how the pole goes. That is if spoke words make it through. Interesting idea for rituals though. I'll definitely consider using that if rituals makes it. When the pole closes I'll also mention, like for Making a Setting 02, how other results could have resulted in different magic. For the poles, nature magic would be more along the lines of connecting or controlling a part of nature, so weather or animals or plants depending, but as though it were a part of you. So if plants and drawing a property from them it would be in a sense being stronger around plants, sensing plants, and being able to climb or move around them easily, as though the plant were moving you along. Basically it is treating a part of nature either as a limb you can control (control), or as a part of you you can sense with and which lends you strength and speed etc. and responds to you like a friend (link to).

It's been a while since I read the Silmarillion, but I used to have long discussions with one of my friends about it :-) My own favourite parts are actually the creation accounts, including the singing that served as the blueprints for the world, and the details about each Valar. One of my favourite parts was also the account of the creation of the Dwarves, and how Aule is in a sense the positive mirror to Melkor, with the same desire to make unique and new things, but with humility and obedience, and the way his actions were eventually rewarded for his subsequent humility with the Dwarves given souls. I think that part is a great story :-)

"I knew this day would come! You and me on the same wavelength! Two great minds, one thought!" "Only half a wit."

Links to other topics in this series. Making a setting 01 - getting started - [POLL CLOSED] Making a setting 02 - Choice of Worlds - The Triarku system summary and plot Making a setting 03 - Choice of Worlds - Aliens and humans in the Triarku system - [POLL CLOSED] Making a setting 04 - Choice of Worlds - Magic in the Triarku system – [POLL CLOSED] Making a setting 05 - Choice of Worlds - Planets in the Triarku system - [POLL CLOSED] [POLL CLOSED] RESULTS: This is the magic poll, covering the two magic systems present in the system. If you haven't already, please vote in the aliens poll. See the link above. A few quick notes: The two magic systems types are hard magic for the poles, and soft magic for the equators, with the system in the poles being commonly taught to anyone who wishes to learn them, so not restricted to having certain bloodlines, etc., but is still limited in that one has to learn it while riding a soul horse in the city, as it makes use of the city to access the source of the magic to gain it, but otherwise one is free to use it once back in the human-scale world. Likewise the ritual magic can be used anywhere, but is extremely dangerous as it involves accessing and manipulating the Outsider's corpses – or, perhaps, being manipulated by them. The two magic systems are intended to be very limited in the setting, powerful but restricted, thus allowing many others to reliably use technology to counter them. One of the ways the abilities are limited is that, if the elemental system is chosen as an example, all members can only use one element, so though they know about other elements, and the soft magic system can use them all, the hard system would only grant access to a single part of what it is associated with. The magic at the poles is seen generally positively by the inhabitants of the poles of the planets, but seen with fear in the equatorial regions where it is almost never seen, with very few inhabitants of the equatorial regions travelling to the poles to learn it. The magic in the equatorial regions is feared by both.

It's also possible that a lot of his mind has expanded into investiture, so in a sense the Breaths ARE his memories, both long and short term - when he thinks, he doesn't think entirely with his brain, but also with the powers he has become a part of.

Wait a minute ... Hoid said Tanavast bought him a beer once ... And the story he heard was from a barkeep ... You might be on to something!

Links to other topics in this series. Making a setting 01 - getting started - [POLL CLOSED] Making a setting 02 - Choice of Worlds - The Triarku system summary and plot Making a setting 03 - Choice of Worlds - Aliens and humans in the Triarku system - [POLL CLOSED] Making a setting 04 - Choice of Worlds - Magic in the Triarku system – [POLL CLOSED] Making a setting 05 - Choice of Worlds - Planets in the Triarku system - [POLL CLOSED] [POLL CLOSED] RESULTS: Here is the aliens poll for the Triarku solar system. Please be aware that there are other aliens in other solar systems in the universe, but the distances involved and the lack of known FTL systems other than the nanoscale city means that most of those aliens remain isolated from one another, though there is a project in the Triarku system that is attempting to create viable FTL that any species can use. The magic poll should be coming in a day or so, but until then, please let me know what you think, and comment any suggestions or questions :-) A few quick details: The two races that are fixed in place are the Benefactors and the Outsiders. The Benefactors are the nanoscale species that guard and control the city built for them by the Others, the race that saved them and the other native races of the universe. The Benefactors are indeed benevolent, but don't fully understand or trust the human-level universe, though they do have many allies who are human-scale, and some who are both larger and smaller scales than that. The Outsiders are the dangerous, hostile beings that arrived in the universe long ago and disrupted civilisation. No race in the universe could even attract their attention, much less stop them, and they wouldn't have cared if they did. The Others eventually stopped them, and broke the dimension they were making use of in order to trap them, splitting them into three “dead” parts, though as the Outsiders were never “alive”, this is ultimately more of a prison sentence than death. Their dead components are still a danger, and occasionally find ways to interfere in the physical world, as well as sometimes invading the nanoscale city in order to disrupt or control it and thus free themselves and salvage their plans for the universe. Humans exist on several worlds, but the majority are on planets that are either a little too hot or a little too cold for human comfort. Thus several humans are adapted to better function on those worlds, but those aren't the only types that exist. The planets have a diverse series of ecosystems, and many possible cultures, not all of which get along.

The thing is we don't know much about what avatars are - how independent are they, were they originally other beings that became part of the shard, or are they parts of the shard that are segmented from the original. How independent are they? How much of the shards power do they have? Are there hard rules for what an avatar is, and thus can an avatar have some of these properties one way while being an avatar, and another have some of these properties another way while also being an avatar? Is this like Ruin being able to speak through the cracks in another beings soul, while Preservation cannot? Can this be like Ruin being unable to hear thoughts, but Preservation can? Something restricted to a shard whose powers are all about freedom and independence? Does this mean that the power of creation, before being shattered, could do it? There are too many unanswered questions to know for sure if another shard can do it, let along what it definitively is, not just what we suspect.

Good point, though I think the big thing to remember in all these scenarios is it isn't just changing the genes - those are in essence library books, reference manuals. The big thing is changing which cells are present, and their arrangement. Even if the change in coded information is small the physiological changes are massive, including changing bones. Changes don't happen at one level, but several - genetic which defines internal chemistry, cellular which defines which cells are present and where, and anatomically, which defines where and how organs are placed. Changing the body at a cellular level doesn't require the genes match, but it certainly helps when they have to produce new proteins after the change. Don't worry - he can heal, and I'm sure he'd agree if it gave him some Herdazian surgery jokes :-P They know about hands and what they do, but not how a hand works. Investiture does though, or can connect to something that does. And who says the hand was mirroring his other hand, rather than the concept of a hand? So not connected to his hand, but to the idea of hands in general. So in the end it doesn't actually matter if the Radiant knows how their body functions. They probably would gain greater control if they did, but it isn't about the knowledge of any given individual on the subject, only that the idea of how their body works, or a body of the type they are changing to works, in the spiritual realm. I'm not following what you mean about an X corresponding to a Y though? Again though if someone sees themselves as a certain group, and that group is subject to a higher likelihood of having certain conditions, wouldn't you expect if they changed externally to match them, and believed themselves to be a member of that ethnicity, they would gain that same average trait? And even if we say Horneaters and Herdazians are a subspecies (... actually, don't Herdazians have plate-like nails? So then lets go with that, as that certainly shouldn't count as a subspecies) that still represents a smaller change physiologically speaking than changing to a new species, especially if the organ is based on an existing on in the body. On that last point, what properties do you think exist as spiritual attributes? We know birthplace is one - what others do you think would or wouldn't? That is assuming they can't grow a gemheart. It is organic, something their bodies produce. For all we know a Singer could regrow a lot gemheart assuming the loss doesn't kill them. If someone can become a Singer with investiture giving them the capability biologically, I don't think there would be a problem. Just because it can't be produced otherways doesn't mean it can't form within them as a natural biological process. Very interesting - I'll read through this again and respond later, but you have made some interesting points :-) Though bare in mind we do have precedence for investiture changing an entire species (adjusting people to survive in a world of ash) and changing specific members of an ethnicity into an entirely new species (turning Terris Feruchemists into Mistwraiths). We know those are exceptional circumstances, but they do show that it is possible for those changes to be performed by investiture. We also know that some forms of investiture can bypass other typical requirements, such as Elsecallers being able to create miniature perpendicularities, something that would otherwise would require a massive quantity of investiture, so could smaller amounts, applied carefully, produce effects that only the Well has been shown to do otherwise? @Hessi's Ward Okay, I've read through your analysis. Very interesting, and I think you've got a good point with a lot of it :-) however, I do disagree on certain points: The healing isn't just based on spiritual connection but on cognitive perception - that is why Kaladin couldn't heal his scars until he moved past his pain. So one doesn't just heal to match spiritual connections but to match cognitive perception. Someone who believes themselves to be something aren't spiritually that thing yet, until the healing starts to move them in that direction and they then gain the spiritual link, reinforcing the cognitive perception and so forming a feedback loop It is implied that changes to the spiritual component of someone immediately changes their physical (i.e. hemalurgy, and the released Bridge Four chapters of Dragonsteel), and that damage to the spiritual component can be healed (e.g. the question about Miles Hundredlives being a source of infinite hemalurgic spikes), so it seems likely that the spiritual components change is what causes the physical change I don't think someone needs to know everything about being what they want to be seen as, and indeed one could theoretically heal into a people they don't understand - I could be wrong on this though, and perhaps the healing requires knowledge. Either way, I don't think someone who heals from A to B automatically knows what it is like to be B, only that they think of themselves as B or want to be seen as B. After all, what did Lightsong - using Returned as a base - know about being muscular and fit? I don't think you gain traits conceptually from changing, only the physical changes involved See my previous post about the Well causing the Kandra to form, and the adaptations to the Scadrians, and the idea of Elsecaller-type hacks to bypass things requiring massive quantities of investiture Good point about Soul forging, and very interesting point about the single gene that would need to be changed!

I think the Stormfather, Sibling, and Nightwatcher are fundamentally part of Roshar - I think the only way they can be any great distance from them is when they try to leave the planet or the system. I think the Tower is probably like the Highstorm, the manifestation of their centre, but the idea of the Sibling, like the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher, is as a concept that pervades all of Roshar. I don't think she is restricted - I think she is only bound to the planet and system now, possibly more than an ordinary Radiant as those shardspren cannot leave the planet, but others can.