LadyLameness

I think it does - the agreement was always to protect the people from attack instead of preserve the area itself. Edit: Actually, going back it does say “The city itself and any who have been born into it…” - which makes me think several things, 1) it was still possible because I think the purpose of this was to prevent Rayse from indirectly killing the people of Kharbranth. It would be the whole idea of starting a tidal wave that happened to head that direction and kill them. I think the reason T could do it was he had the Intent to save them from the very beginning - it wouldn’t matter if he sent a tidal wave at the city if it knew it would be empty by the time it got there. Then he truly is just causing a random wave because it was never going to do any harm. The overall point being, that Odium was agreeing to not only, not harm the populous, but also to not bring harm to the populous through a chain of events. 2) it makes me wonder if it was actually a necessity that the Khabranthian’s not just live but be allowed to continue to live in a version of Khabranth. So while T would keep the structure in the SR to keep up the ruse, it makes me question if he could have done anything else (created a new city, dumped them somewhere else on Roshar etc). 3) Tidal waves are destructive but not to the extent that they the entire city would be wiped clean of the mountainside. That’s not even to say how much of it is built into the mountain and would probably be protected to some degree against an external weather threat. The city would be highly damaged but still standing. 4} the end of the negotiations in OB, Odium brings up the spirit vs letter of an agreement - I don’t think he’s lying here, I think the Shard itself tends towards the spirit of an agreement over the exact wording of one, which gives a something really crunchy story wise because it gives flexibility m. But what’s more that “spirit of the agreement” is now being seen from both sides of the aisle - the Shard having seen it through Rayse’s perspective and now also Taravangian’s (potentially), different read on the contract. The Shard of Odium itself is having to contend with having two different ways this deal was conceived which further impacts on its overall flexibility. I think I still agree with the fact that it fits but it did take more consideration.

I loved it - best fake out death Brandon's ever done. Taravangian's in such a crunchy spot now - Kharbranth was his city, his home. I truly believe he puts this city above all else which is why he made the deal he did at the end of Oathbringer - it's special and he can't bare the thought of it being targeted and that that makes him so vulnerable. But also I think there's also the fun of the Shard of Odium being bound by the Oathbringer promise to not harm the people born in Kharbranth - Taravangian having to make it look like he destroyed the city without breaking the Oath the Shard itself is bound by. Taravangian being stuck in the middle of his human emotions for the city leaving him open for attack if discovered and having to remain calculating to protect the city without it being known he's doing so was really fun.

I think the idea of grouping people has a lot of merit, to keep it from becoming a bit too unwieldy a section. But yes I agree that certain people are significant enough to pull out and get their own sections.

I would concur with this. Brandon has given no factual information in his answer. With it being the last unknown Shard as well, I could see the bar being higher for what is added to the page to stop speculation occurring.

That sounds fine to me. I think this might actually be going too broad at this point. There may end up being more divergence between how the technology’s work than is currently clear and it’ll be easier to combine things later once we have more information than separate them out. (Turns out you can’t edit in a quote easily to a existing post on mobile so I’m just putting this separately) If we don’t have other Scadrian Airship’s I don’t think we need to do this. Having something reflective of the information we currently have is going to be a better user experience than trying to predict what we may get in the future. Calling it Scadrian may also be confusing because it gives the impression that the page contains information for all of Scadrial and not just a single culture. I can imagine people getting confused and thinking there’s something missing.

We have this page which may be the last unknown Shard. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Survival_Shard It doesn’t look like there is a currently a Grand Apparatus page though that’s likely due to how new the information is. Pages do get made for things mentioned outside of books prior to them being canonized in text but the pages need to be very worded very careful to avoid speculation. Hope that helps!

I think a general page is a good idea at this point - we have three distinct crafts now, I think, between Daal’s and the two from Bands. Having a page that collects them and any other information that exists would be a good idea, agreed. Though if it is going to be a general page about the different crafts, ‘warship’ would not be the best wording as Allik’s small craft doesn’t appear to be one. Something more generalized like ‘’Malwish aircrafts’ would be better suited.

The issue with ‘Malwish Airship’ is that it’s too generic. That could refer to any ship and if anything evokes a general page not a specific one. In cases where we don’t have a canonical name we want something that is specific to the situation at hand - no one is going to realistically search for ‘Admiral Daal’s warship’ or ‘Malwish airship’ but one of these is clear from the get go of what is being talked about. There’s been no issues raised with ‘Admiral Daal’s warship’ amongst the staff so this works for the title. Do note that because it is not an official title, ‘warship’ should not be capitalized in the page title. If/when we get an actual name, the page can always be moved to something canonical, but otherwise this works best with the information we currently have at the moment. Also apologies for the delay and thank you for poking me for an update.

Just a note that believe we have done this in the past (given some things pages and collected other one one page). I think this is also a very viable solution.

- I think it would be good to keep the Southern Scadrian page even if it’s just a landing page - that’s likely a term that people will search and if other things are split off into their own pages, then this would be a good way to easily access all the associated pages. - I think a Malwish Consortium page would be useful — if I remember correctly we get quite a bit of information about it? - In terms of the different Southern Scadrian nations, I don’t think we need to make pages for all of these nations. Making individual pages for the nations that we have significant information on would be useful I think (eg Malwish and Hunters) and then the rest can have sections on another page (I would say the Southern Scadrian page would be good for this). The Malwish and Hunters could still be included on the page but just as summaries with a ‘See More’ slapped under the title.

I would agree on this having a page. For the name I’m thinking simply ‘Admiral Daal’s ship’ or ‘Admiral Daal’s warship’? For unnamed pages, there’s often quite a bit of discussion amongst staff to try and find something that is easiest to find - let me know if you have any suggestions and I can feed them back to the staff to discuss.

With there being so little information on the other kingdoms it would be better to just add this to the Nalthis page for now. Kuth and Huth also have pages of their own so it would probably be best to leave them as is. In general, we try to avoid pages that are really short/have very little informatino, particularly if the information can be added elsewhere. There’s also the problem of unofficial naming - it makes these pages particularly difficult to find because the average user isn’t going to know to search for these terms. Maybe one day we’ll get Nightblood and have more information in these places But for now, it would be better to add any information you’ve found to the Nalthis page. I had a quick look and there’s a small reference to them under Geography and Ecology that could be fleshed out if you’ve found more information.

Posting here is enough. Not sure if this is a discrepancy (eg. 500 planes vs 300 planes) or if the wording is just confusing (eg. 500 planes and 300 pilots) I imagine it’s the latter? The ambiguity of ‘fighters’ and ‘starfighters’ being used to refer to both the craft and the piloted plane throughout the book makes it a bit confusing here.

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Unfortunately I do still need to ask you to move to a different platform - it is really appreciated the measures you’re putting in but past experience has shown that people ignore every warning or clue put in place then get upset, hence why we have this policy. It also causes confusion if some people are allowed to put up spoilers (even if it’s just on user pages) and others aren’t.

What page is it you’re working on? Only the book pages are allowed on the Coppermind before release and anything else needs to be done elsewhere (Google doc, Word etc.).

I've put a temporary lock on that I.P so he can't do anything else tonight - with Cloudfare the I.P's get randomized so we can't actually block them long term as they can end up being assigned to actual users who then can't access their accounts anymore (this happened to me once!)

Thanks for the heads up, it should be dealt with now. Really appreciate the speedy contact

Yep this was what I meant - unfortunately adding more columns extends the width of the table too far horizontally in mobile and has always been a massive pain so it’s easier in this case to minimize the number of columns and stick to separate tables for readability sake. Though that of course does make the page really long - something that might help in terms of navigation is adding a table of contents and splitting up the tables (maybe into series?) with headers (the final page is going to require something like that but don’t feel like you have to put it in if you don’t feel the need - it can always be added later). That way you can always jump to the right section and open only that section instead of having to edit the whole page and endlessly scroll through the edit box to find the right place. With there being both cosmere and non-cosmere books being collected my suggestion would be something like this in whatever order is preferred series wise: “ {{toc}} == Cosmere == === Stormlight === Tables === Mistborn === Tables (repeat) == Non-Cosmere == === Skyward === Tables === Alcatraz === Tables (repeat) “

Keepers had quite the chat about this! The preference in the end was to include the foreign English editions as well so that the tables covered everything. That way, if anyone needs to (for some reason) find the foreign English titles, they're all in the same place. I didn't want to bother people who were working on this and push work on anyone so I was going to just add them once all the tables were finished but you're welcome to if you want! I know T.rue has found some of the Stormlight titles so it would be good check in with them just to make sure neither of you are doing more work than you have to. Your table is looking nice and meaty with information which is also great! The format though won't work for mobile and will be unreadable - one of the Keeper's (Paleo) had a play around with tables and found that a vertical table was much more readable. The second table on this page (https://coppermind.net/wiki/User:Paleo) is the format that will work best and if you go into edit on the page you should be able to copy the formatting so you don't have to deal with building the table at all (thank god for that).

Don’t worry about pacing, take as much time as you need. The only deadline is the one you set yourself. I think this is looking terrific! You’ve gotten through so much already, nice job. Do you have a Coppermind account by any chance? I was just thinking it might be useful to shift this to one of your own user pages so Paleo can have his back. Edit: also just in case you hadn’t seen (or anyone else helping out hadn’t seen) we have a Discord for Coppermind work! It makes it a bit easier to have conversations and organize work, though it’s not required if you would prefer to stick to communicating like this. https://discord.gg/3c2GhXH

Hey! Sorry for the delay, there was quite a bit of back and forth in the end. The Keepers were also worried about potential sizing of the table and agree with the idea of having something with fewer columns - it would be particularly difficult on mobile of it was too long. These are the two tables that we put together and the second worked a bit better and is the preferred choice. Does that fit what you’re going for? You should be able to copy and paste the formatting from the second table but mediawiki is touchy so if you have any issues then definitely reach out and someone can help. https://coppermind.net/wiki/User:Paleo In terms of pages, we think it would actually be best to split the series into their own table and add it to each series page - these pages are probably the first place people would look for the names. There was some back and forth on what to call the subsection, but in the end it was decided that ‘Foreign Editions’ would be best so that the UK versions could be included. Here’s the category with all the book pages in it https://coppermind.net/wiki/Category:Books

What columns/information do you have? It may impact where is best to put the information.

No coding needed! Some very basic syntax is really the only thing required and it is almost all laid out in the Coppermind help pages or can be copied from another page . If someone is able to draft me what is needed tablewise (column headers etc) then I can create a basic one that can be filled in. The Keepers are figuring out the best place to put this - I’ll drop a link to the page once it’s created, it’ll likely need to be a subpage due to length.

Hey! I really like this idea - let me take it to the staff so we can chat about it a bit, there are a few kinks that might need ironing out. Where you interested in creating this yourself? The biggest hurdle we often run in to is people being free to implement a change. Here is the best resource I can think of - I don’t know if it will help with Tress but Mark (the guy behind the website) is well established in the collector community and has a lot of knowledge of international editions. https://collectingsanderson.com/