The Count

What he said...

Honestly, I think you will be fine. The two storylines do not really intersect that much so from that perspective I think you will have no problems. On the otherhand, think of all the cool stuff you will miss! Szeths interludes. Kaladin in the Highstorm, Kaladin at The Tower, Dalinar fighting the midnight essence, Adolins dueling, Sadeas' betrayal... If it were me, I would just read the book again... Actually, I think I will read the book again....

I don't know, we already have some instances of surgebinders visiting the Old Magic and if we get another one then it starts to seem a bit too much... Not saying it isn't, but I remain to be convinced.

I was just thinking that is it a shame no order has the two surges: Light and Surface Tension. You know where I am going with this.... LIGHTSABERS BABY! What other cool combos of surges can you think of...

So what changed? If the group have been managing to stay on top of the potential surgebinders for 4000 odd years, the either they are getting sloppy or more surgebinders are appearing now. Certainly more are slipping through the net. I am still of the opinion that Gavilar did something with the black sphere of doom that: (1) Caused the return of Surgbinders (2) Started the countdown to the Desolation. OK... how about this... Something has held back surgbinding since the recreance but there were still the odd few appearing here and there. The Surgebinder death squad (led by the shadowman) has been eliminating them. Then Gavilar does his thing and suddenly there are many more surgebinders cropping up than the death squad can deal with. I will go further and theorise that whatever Gvilar did with the sphere of doom was exactly what the shadowman was afraid of (hence why he was there at the party the night Gavilar died). /speculation.

This is a fair point. Still, they lend themselves to a more supporting role than a directly offensive one. I could see them harrying / disrupting / slowing enemy troops I suppose. Plus the obvious application of regrowth..

Then it is still manipulating the cohesive forces of the material (i.e how the particles interact with one another). I stand by Cohesion.

Well I think it depends on the situation. Remember that zapping the thief from afar cost Jasnah a large gemstone so it much have used a collossal amount of stormlight. Also bear in mind that Windrunners are supposed to be Shock troops, dropping out of the sky and battering the enemy. I would think Elsecallers and lightweavers are primarily a support roles (logistics and intelligence I suppose)

I don't know, I am pretty sure the last surge will still follow the 'Forces' theme.... I was thinking something like Attraction or Magnitism... possibly something like Solidity... or how about Vibration or Resonance. On the Surface Tension name, I think it will eventually be called Cohesion. ((Surface tension is caused by cohesive forces between the particles of a liquid))

I just cannot get behind the theory that Szeth carries an Honorblade... WoB says we have seen 3 types, to me that is: - Honorblades (Prologue) - Shardblades (KR and modern day) - Szethblade (different somehow) The 'Szeth carries an honorblade' theory is predicated on the notion that the KR blades (seen in the visions) are different from the ones carried in modern day Roshar. I find this difficult to believe since the only concrete origin of modern shardblades we know of are those left at Feverstone Keep (i.e KR blades). I think that once we know more about how blades are formed, we will be able to answer this. Regarding a showdown, I think this is a set piece that Branson has been building toward deliberately. I am also sure, however, that the resolution will not be what we expect (this is Brandon after all!) Consider this however. Szeths orders are to be very public about his assasinations. Therefore it is likely that Dalinars famaily and bodyguards will have a chance to defend him. Family and bodyguards inlcude: Kaladin (Windrunner) Jasnah (KR in training) Shallan (KR in training) Adolin (Shardbearer & best duelist in Alethkar) Navani (Artifabrian - I bet she has some tricks up her safepouch!) The Bridgemen (fiercely loyal potential Radiants in traning) All in all, I do not think the odds are in Szeths favour. Edited to remove some spoilers

Curses! sounds like I really need to get one of them there Steelhunt codes.... Bein in the UK, this is very unlikely however... will need to wait for the book! damnation YOU KRAPOTKIN!!! - P.S - I will give a rep point to anyone who got the reference.

Don't forget also that the body focus relating to Jezrien is Inhalation and the essence is Zephyr. I always assumed that the breath holding / stormlight inhaling for windrunners was linked to this. I knw we have not really seen many other orders use Stormlight (only windrunners and Soulcasters) but I am willing to bet that no other order has to inhale the stormlight and hold their breath to keep it in. I am also willing to lay odds on that full KR Windrunners do not even need to hold their breath to retain stormlight... that is all speculation though.

From the Portland Steelheart signing in the link below: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4273-portland-steelheart-signing/ So I may have misinterpreted a little. It still could be a Light Surge power.

Have I missed something somewhere? Why would the guy in black and silver be Nalan? Whoever he is, he is certainly quite harsh!

Ok so following on from the totally awesome new information we got for the KR chart I have made a few connections.... Shallash is Herald of the Lightweavers Shallash is destroying statues of herself (particularly the eyes!!) Shallan is a Lightweaver Shallan has perfect memory / artistic ability beyond 'normal' Lightweavers have 'Light' and 'Transformation' Eyes are all about the perception of light by humans Eyes are the 'window to the soul' Memory - Drawing - Eyes - Light - Lightweaving I can't help but think there is a connection here, it is too perfect! IIRC, WoB said that Shallan's memory / drawing is not a Surge power, but also has a magical aspect to it...

Thos eare good points Gloom. In fact, you are right about the consistency of KR being a factor. Each Desolation that the KR were present would make it more likely that the Heralds could justify their leaving. I keept trying to imagine the state of mind of the Heralds... I mean, you are the sacrifice for mankinds survival, your duty to die and be reborn for the good of everyone. You convince yourself that you can leave the post, abandon your duty, in part because there is a powerful order of knight to take over the mantle. Then 4000 years later (ish), the knights are gone, your God is dead, the final desolation is coming and you just know, somewhere inside you, that it is partially your fault. I bet some of them are seriously unhinged by now....

Will need to read the section again really, but from what I remember, he used multiple basic lashings on the balcony. This is the same one he used to walk on walls and toss furniture about. That would make me think that he did indeed increase the effect of gravity on the balcony. My memory may be flawed here though, so you could be correct. Remember we have only seen Szeth fight indoors so we have not seen him in a situation where such a power would be used. IIRC he used a 'partial' lashing to make himself lighter while fighting the Jah Keved king. This leads me to think Szeth would definitely be able to leap chasms using his powers. Personally, I think the 'level-ups' from the oaths give efficiency and capacity for stormilight rather than extra powers. Kaladin can hold Stormlight longer than Szeth and use it more efficiently. I suppose that there could be some abilities where powers are not possible without better stormlight control, the ability to use lashings in Shardplate could be one of these I guess. As for the powers, it would seem sensible that there are 'pure' powers from the surges and 'mixed' powers from the unique interactions of the two surges. Using Jasnah's lightning powers an example. I think there has been speculation that this is a mix of Transformation (Soulcasting) and Travel. So this would be a good example of a mixed ability.

Ok, so this is a little extra speculation based on the new information that Honor was suprised by the formation of the KR and that the Heralds were a little bitter with Honor and blamed him for their situation. ((Note: I have not heard the reading, only seen this talked about on the boards so if I have misinterpreted, please let me know)) This theory makes the assumption that the KR only fought in 1 Desolation (the one that ended in the Prologue to WoK). Obviously I have no evidence of this as we do not know exactly when or how the KR were formed. Basically the assumption is that Dalinar's vision of Nohadon is after the end of the desolation before the one ending in the prologue. In the intervening years, Nohadons writes his book and might (or night not) do some vajazzle with a dawnshard to bind surgebinders to oaths. Ultimately the KR are formed in time to fight in the 'final' desolation. Now, my basic theory goes like this: The Heralds have been dying and being tortured for uncounted generations and are quite bitter about it. They blame Honor (at least partially) for putting them in their current situation. However, generally they know their duty to mankind. Then they return for the desolation and find (much to their suprise) a highly trained, fighting fit, surgebinding paramilitary group ready and willing to fight with them against the forces of darkness. Suddenly the prospect looks less bleak and a crack of hope rises. They start to think that they may finally defeat the enemy. IIRC Kalak comments that despite the fighting being more fierce, less of them (Heralds) died this time. I think Jezrien even argues that the KR will be sufficient in the future. So I think it was (at least in part), the presence of the KR that led to them abandoning their blades. It is one thing to sacrifice your soul and body to defend a nation of farmers who would otherwise be wiped out. Another to do it for a nation of farmers defended by an elite military group. Maybe this is not really new, but for me the information that the Heralds were blaming Honor is really interesting. How must they feel now? Knowing that their actions probably led, ultimately, to his death / splintering!? ((Note, I am not saying there is a direct causal link, but I bet that is how the Heralds feel))

NEVER!! THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

Hmmm... with that attitude, you will struggle to attract an Honorspren for sure! (you have basically descriibe a windrunner for your powers) Anyway, for me... Primary Power: Matter Manipulation. I can move and shape matter with my mind. (Think Magnito but with everything, not just metal) Secondary Power(s): Precognition / super dexterity. Weakness: Vulnerability to organic / living creatures. I can't directly effect anything that is alive. (I can throw a wall at a truck, but I can't throw the person himself). Also my powers are negatied if I catch a common cold. Cheesy Name: Mattinator Evil Manifestatioin: I believe mine is the power of god, to change anything as I se fit. Therefore, I believ, basically that I am god and eberyone must worship me.

As people have said, the ecological impanct could be 'magical' rather than food chain related. I am sure it is said somewhere that the highstorms are getting more violent and powerful, what if this is related to the fall in the number of pupating chasmfiends? RANDOM THEORY TIME... YAY! What if the chasmfieds pupation acted as a sort of release valve for the stormlight in the highstorms so that by the time the highstorm got passed the shatterend plains, the storm was diminished slightly due to the pupating chasmfiends. Therefore, as the chasmfiends are killed (and not pupating) they are not taking any stormlight out of the storms and therefore the storms are feeling more powerful once they hit the rest of the continent. In this theory, the population of the chasm fiends is proportional to the ferocity of the highstorms. Of course this assumes that: 1. There is a finite amount of stormlight in a hightorm 2. That the ferocity of the highstorm is proportional to the amount of stormlight in it. 3. That the highstorms are not actually getting more powerful, it just appears that way. 4. That the stormlight required to pupate the chasmfiend is pretty massive (enought to affect the total amount in a highstorm) I quite like thiss though. It seems like a pretty good adaptation for a species living closest to the origin, where the storms are strongest.

How can we assume this? Shallan and Jasnah are both natural soulcasters The cryptics facillitate soulcasting Jasnah recognises the crypics Surly the obvious conclusion is that Jasnah is also bonded to a cryptic... As to weather they are associated with voidbinding... I don't buy it personally. The other examples we have seen linked to voidbinding, such as the midnight essence or the WoR scene seem to be wholly destructive in nature. Beings of Hate and destruction (along with their patron Shard's intent). By contrast, Shallan's power (and the cryptics) seems alignment neutral. It merely provides access to power, which could be used in any way at all. Indeed, this is precicly the point that Jasnah makes after she murders the thugs. Indeed, Shallan obtains access to Shadesmar with the words 'I am a Murderer' hardly likely please / attratc an Honourspren. Suppose Kaladin was to go out of his way to find and kill those thugs in the same manner? I think Syl would not have been happy as his actions would not have been honourble. I would suggest that Soulcasting could therefore be of Cultivation rather than Odium. Indeed, the analogy could even be taken further with the nature of the bonds: Honor - Symbiotic relationships (good alignment), requires honourable actions. Cultivation - Trading relationships (neutral alignment), requires truth (or other not aligned actions) Odium - Parasitic / Possession (Evil alignment), cannot say of they can be attracted or they just possess stuff. Just some thoughts...

Shard of Mediocrity. You get power by being totally unremarkable in any way... Then lose that power immediately as you suddenly become exceptional.

True, but then again we have no idea how competent a fighter the man he killed was. He certainly knew there were no Shardbearers in Amaram's army and was counting on his own invincibility. Would the same be true if Kaladin with his wooden spear were fighting say... Adolin... one of the best fighters with a shardblade amoung the Alethi? I am not so sure. My own feeling is that Kal will eventually get a shard weapon. I have always felt that it would be truly awsome if he somehow got a ShardSpear... fingers crossed.

Surely it is the physical symbol which is the important bit here? The Aeons were affected byt a change in the physical landscape, not by any cognitive changes. Using your classification AonDor has to be physically focussed - that is the physical act of dawing the symbol. Otherwise, you could just as easily say that Allomancy starts with the decision to injest the metal - therefore cognitive. This is also mirrored by the Chayshan and Dakhor variations with physical movements and bone growths respectively. In general, I quite like the symmetry of it. However, I am not sure we know enough about Adonalsium or shardic power in gerneral to say anything concrete.