The Count

Hmmm... I wonder if this is related to Dalinar visiting the Nightwatcher... I know there has been speculation that Dalinar's Boon was related to Renarin. IIRC the speculation was that Renarin was a sickly child and Dalinar asked for him to survive. No evidence for this though. I also agree with the people above who point out that Renarin does not necessrily have to be bonding to see a unique spren.

Not quite true, The Prelude also includes a brief collective descriptiion of the Honorblades. IIRC it mentions them as works of art with glyphs running along their lengths.. Can't remember if they mention size / shape though.

I always assumed the Plate regeneration thisng was because the plate had a strong singular cognitive identity embedded in each piece. Therefore each set is a cognitive whole and unique, therfore only one version can exist... [Not sure if that was explained very well] I see your point about destroying powerful weapons but consider.. By their very nature, the KR were very selective about membership. They kept a very tight control over the arts of war between desolations. It would be my guess that they would also keep tight control over the most powerful artifacts on Rohsar. I have a pet theory that Shardblades / plate were supposed to crumble to dust when their Radient died. Unless they were given away freely by the Radiant in question, then the shards continued to exist under new ownership. Not got any evidence for this though. Or it could even be as simple as the shards just degrade over time if they are not possessed by anyone (blade) or fed stormlight (plate). Even a relatively slow decay rate could see any unowned shards crumble in the years since the Radients and yet be undetectible to any individual. Either I will put my reputation on the line and say that there was not a finite number of blades / plate that were handed down successive generations on knights... in fact I will add this to the 'I told you so' thread.

There are several references in TWoK to suggest that shards are highly personal items: 1/ They are all unique - works of art even. I think probably tailor made for each individual. 2/ Dalinar says on numerous occasions that someone else weilding his blade feels wrong. Not conslusive I grant you, but I am more incluned to believe that there was a way to destroy the blades rather than hand them down.

I think there is an even bigger question here: The 300 left in the Recreance vision are 2 orders of the last generation of knights only. But we know that the Radiants existed for several hundred years at least, maybe more. If we assume that there were say 1000 sets of shards (plate and blade) in the hands of the KR at the time of the Recreance vision. If we assume that ther orders we in existance for 500 years, that is ~10 generations so we could be looking at 10,000 sets in total unaccounted for. Unless they were handed down (I think this very unlikely) or unless there is a way to destroy the plate and blades, that is a lot of shards unaccounted for.

I find it difficult to accept that Honorblades provide surges to the weilder... For the simple reason that investiture on Roshar arises out of a persons actions, this is a key theme of the book. I realise we may have Voidbinding (which may be different - or maybe not) and Fabrials (which circumvent the normal system). However, Honorblades are from the time before Fabrials and it was ones actions which defined power. To have an item granting powers to people seems contradictory to this. I suppose there is a counter argument that the Honorblads were given to the Heralds and it was considered impossible that anyone else would carry them... I could get behind the idea of Honorblades enhancing the Herald's power (just as stormlight enhancess people) but granting those powers?... I am not so sure.

This is a good point. Given the Honorblades implicit tie to the oathpact it may only be case that they dissappear on the death of the Herald (i.e. the one who agreed to the oathpact). In fact we already know that regular shardblades behave slightly differently for weilders other than their Radiant (they do not glow or have glyphs) so there is some precedent for what you suggest. Still suposition though so I am not quite ready to dissmiss the observations.

True, but the bond is far more intimate with the Parshendi, A Nahel bond is symbiotic (both parties get benefit from the bond) The Parshendi act more like.... living Fabrials... their entire funtion is defined by the Spren they are bonded with. It is even deeper that that though, it is almost as if they are not complete individuals without the spren bond (i.e. they are Parshmen). Asside: I would speculate that the Nahel bond protects the spren from corruption (similar to how it seems to protect Kaladin from the Thrill)

I agree this quote is suggestive, they seem to be referring to Szeth and they imply that he has a sword that once belonged to a Lord of theirs who logically could be Jezrien, assuming they are indeed both Heralds. But there are still too many arguments against the Honorblade theory for me 1/ The Honorblades are all described as a work of art, Szeth's is not described in this fashion and I got the feeling it was quite plain and utilitarian. 2/ The size of the blade seems tailored for fighting humans rather than monsters. The arguments for the blade changing size to the weilder I find unconvincing. 3/ It is implied that Szeths blade will be recoverable when he dies. Honorblades dissappear when the weilder dies. 4/ When Szeth drops his blade in the fight with Gavilar it dissappears. When Taln falls unconcious, his blade (almost definitely an Honorblade) clatters to the floor (it does not dissappear). 5/ The 'Three types of Shardblade' word of Brandon. To me: Honorblades, Radiantblades, Szeth's Blade. I do believe that his bond with the blade sizes Szeth his powers, but I am inclined to believe that is it is either a very old blade (as in pre Helraldic Epochs) or very new (as in forged in the modern era).

Big ones for me... although these may be answered later in the series. Szeth is NOT in possession of an Honorblade Shardblades are NOT corrupted by Odium Shardblades / plate could be created and destoyed by the Radiants (i.e there were not a fixed number which were handed down the generations). ...there goes all my rep points

What about Nightblood? When unsheathed, he consumes the beraths of the weilder as fuel, therefore end positive (or negative I suppose depending on persepective). Is this a special case?

Wait.. I thought he was black (have I missed something?) I though he was described as Makabaki (which was black skinned). I imagined hum looking like Djimon Honsou.

@cem I see your point but we have seen a few instances that do not really conform to the three lashings: 1. Pressure wave as described above (could be one off second ideal awesomeness) 2. Kaladin falling from the bridge. His landing does not follow the three lashings either. I am prepared to give the benfit of the doubt and say that there are other applications than just the three lashings.

No sure about this, To hear Jasnah and Shallan talk about it, parshmen are everywhere in the modern world. I got the implication was that there were possibly millions of them. Wheras the only known Parshendi are on the Shattered plans, a fairly small part of the continent (smaller than a single princedom of Alethkar). I am sure Parshmen outnumber Parshendi by a considerable margin. Also consider the following: 1. The Parshendi were only discovered 7 years ago. A whole race unkown to the world? 2. The Parshendi have lost almost all of their culture (from what Eshonai claims). Sounds like a very very limited population over the last several millenia.

What he said.

I remember thre quote (and I am probably reading waaaay to much into it here) but 'someone who not a Herald' does not necessarily mean 'All non Heralds'. Ther may still be some selection criteria. So the quote does not have to mean that just anyone can pick up an Honorblade. I agree though that your interpretation is the simplest. I guess it just seems to me that you would take more care to leave actual weapons of god somewhere safe if any peasant could come along and use it. But then the same argument could be tied to the Recreance couldn't it. Argh, I am just talking myself in circles now...

Quick and Easy... Theory hats on everyone... Before the last desolation, there were no parshmen, only parshendi who were a nation (the fifth Vorin kingdom??). Maybe parshmen were like criminals in the society... or something. Anyway, they fought for the lightside in the Desolations, but were easier to corrupt due to their spren symbiosis and many of them turned darkide / were taken over by corrupted spren. Following the last Desolation, the remaining Parshendi voluntarily became slaves / gave up their spren and became parshmen. Maybe as a punishment for them aiding the enemy, maybe to protect the survivors in the future. They became parshmen and the Parshendi nations was forgotten over the next 4500 years. The end.

I think I agree with you here, that Jasnah is wrong, or at the very least, that it is not as simple as she believes. I think the problem is Jasnah's heresy and her disbelief in the Almighty. This is leading her to look for more worldly and mundane explanations for the Voidbringers and Desolations. We, as informed readers, know she is wrong on these points. I think she is probably half right, from the information we know, Spren can be corrupted Parshendi change form by bonding with different spren It is not a great leap of faith the assume bad stuff will occur when the two are mixed. This doesn't address the fact that, if Parshmen can become Voidbringers, the most logical course of action following the last Desolation would be to kill them all... problem solved. This did not happen, therfore I deduces that Jasnah's logic is flawed in someway. I would say that Parshmen / Parshendi are merely easier targets for corruption due to their unique bonding relationship.

I like it... My only issue is this bit: Density is a material property so having two blocks of the same matter with identical volumes but different densities is physically impossible. Or do you mean that they take up the same space (one is hollow for example). This still may not be enough since the materials would have the same specific heat capacity so any change in termerature due to the time in the oven would be a factor of the different volumes of matter. The only way I can see this working is either: 1/ Investiture in an initial condition of the experiment: So your two blocks are identical material, size and shape but one is invested and the other is the control. You can then do the heating experiment to see if the investiture alters the take up of heat energy. 2/ The investiture is the the input So you let both identical blocks settle to normal room temperature, have Randomness invest one of them and measure any resulting temperature drop. The uninvested block still supplies a control group. In general I like the theory though.. physics is cool. Magic Physics is super awesome cool. EDIT: I was a research physicist in my younger days, really wich I could carry out this experiment. Someone get me a Feruchemically charged bracer!

We should probably add 1 Szeth to the list of magic we have seen. He is exibiting Windrunner like abilities but he is different enough (no Spren) that he doesn't really fall under the Radiant catagory. He is not a currupt essence As far as we are aware he has not visited the Nightwatcher He is not a native creature He does not have a fabiral (modern or ancient) Still the way Szeth obtained his powers must fit into the framework somewhere, maybe it is voidbinding (as you say), maybe not... either way it is another magic type that we have directly observed.

Well, you learn something new everyday! I bow to your superior knowledge and apologise for my inaccuracy... Still the point is, not just anyone could pull the sword out of the stone... Similarly, maybe not just anyone can pull up the Honorblades.

If SA was WoT... Every book, one of Odiums chief lieutenants will pop up in super secret conferences gloating about how badass he is without actually doing anything at all. It will be strongly hinted at who he really is and what his plan is only for him eventually to turn up with an army from a society that has been mentioned a grand total of twice in the ENTIRE SERIES! Shallan will be made head of the new radient orders for no logical reason whatsoever. Somehow she will be able to out whit and out manouver all her political opponents despite having zero experience and being almost completely wrong about nearly everything. The books will go on for 5 extra books primarily beacause, despite the impending apocolypse, none of the characters will talk to each other. The bridgemen will start showing their respect for Kaladin by beating him up alot.

I always felt that not just anyone could pick up an honorblade. I know Brandon said that someone else could use them, but this does not mean that anyone else can... I mean they are the weapons of God's chosen! In a literary sense the parallels between the honorblades and Excalibur (sword in the stone) are interesting. Maybe you have to the right king of person to use an Honorblade, just like you have to be the right kind of person to attract an Honorspren. Anyway, I think the honorblades, assuming they are still in the same place they were left, would now be buried under centuries of crem...

Therfore logically, the cause of the Recreance... Market Crash, leading to a great depression, leading to the KR giving up... IT all makes sense!

Not Sure if this is exactly true since his judgements always end in death... I think it is more a case of needing some / any legal justification, but the scentence for any transgression is death to the surgebinder. It seems like this is the only way he can not refer to himself as a murderer. Although, to be fair, we only have two data points Ym (who killed someone) and Lift, who broke into the palace of the ruler of a nation. Both of these may warrant death under the law.