The Count

With regard to bringing back surgebinders, if it happened the night that Gavilar died then Jasnah certainly attracted a spren VERY quickly as she is noticing issues with her shadow almost at the same time as Szeth is beginning his rampage. There is certainly some evidence connecting Gavilars actions / intentions to both the return of Surgebinding and the coming of the Desolation: Assuming that Return of Parshendo dark gods = Voidbringers = Desolation. Then the Parshendi essentially feared that Gavilar would trigger a Desolation. Also, the timing. Everything seems to start happening the night of Gavilars Assassination. Given other speculation, it seems that many of the Heralds may also have been present at the party that night. Also I am really not sure how the Sphere fits in to all this but I suspect that book five will have Gavilar's POV on the Prologue. That may explain a significant amount.

Well, the symbol is the Order of Dustbringers in the equivalent position in the Radiant Chart. Not sure if that helps at all or is even relavent...

Remember.. we never actually explicitly see a Soulcaster (modern or ancient) being used in the whole of TWoK. The only Soulcasting we see in the book is performed by Jasnah and Shallan (who do not require a fabrial) and a random guy in a Szeth interlude (turns a wall to smoke IIRC) who could be using a soulcaster or could be natural. We do know that Jasnah's soulcaster is a fake (i.e. designed to look like a soulcaster) so how she pretends to use it may not be how they are actually operated. Ardents keep fabrial operation very secret so the likelyhood of discovery is extremely low from Jasnahs perspective; people will see what they want to see. We only have word of Shallan of the different types of soulcaster (most do one thing, some do any transformation) and, given her upbringing, she may not be a very trustworthy source (although I do think she is right here). Everything else, really, is supposition. Best guess about modern soulcasters is that they operate like other modern fabrials we have seen (spanreeds, heaters, detection thingy) and have a single gem that can produce one transformation (i.e air into food or air into rock). In this case, if the gem breaks, the fabrial would not work. Ancient soulcasters is a bigger guess but I agree with the points above, the 'device' is invested somehow with the gems acting only as batteries for the transformation (so can break without impacting the soulcaster functionality). Until we see some proper fabrial soulcasting, I hesitate to speculate more than this.

I don't think either Luesh or Shallan's father was a Soulcaster... I think the Soulcaster was a genuine greater soulcaster supplied by the Ghostbloods to held Davar gain money / power / influence etc. It seems like the men visiting Nan Belat, did so in response to Luesh's death... this leads me to think that he was the one supposed to be in control of the soulcaster. I suspect that when the soulcaster was broken he conceived of the plan to steal Jasnahs in the hope of saving his own skin as he knew the Ghostbloods plan was in dissarray after Davar died. For the Shardblades, I think that Shallan is the only person on Roshar who knows it exists now. I am sure Davar kept it secret, even from his family. The trail of events I see is as follows: Davar went in a rage and started beating Nan Belat (the beating that left him crippled). Shallan came accross the scene and killed Davar, by which point Nan Belat was unconscious. The shardblade droped and Shallan felling both ashamed and suprised, picked it up and accidentally bonded herself to it. Really can't wait to see what really happened!

IIRC, Szeth says that 'the gemstones interfere with his lashings', which is why he does not wear plate. His contention is that it is one or the other... However, I think Szeth is not a trustworthy source here, we know that (from Starfalls, and from the Recreance vision) that windunner KRs most certainly can use lashings while in full plate. So either Szeth is wrong (or at least his knowledge in incomplete) or the modern plate is different somehow. Myself, I think, Szeth is incorrect here. Maybe at his 'level' he cannot use his powers effectively enough to wear plate, wheras a full KR can due to his power / experience / awesomeness... I am not really sure. As for infusing, I think the 'gem pockets' within sharplate were originally intended to power the Radiant as much as they were the plate itself. This would serve to both provide a source of power for the Radiant as well as blocking any darkside infusers (assuming these exist) from stealing their power source. Assuming that a fully levelled up KR can hold stormlight (near) perfectly and use if very efficiently, this may have been enough for even protracted battles.

Assuming Cultivation is the Nightwatcher... did she also give them a boon? Thas seems to be how her magic works. I think I am more inclined to believe teh Herals are just mad from 4,500 years of guilt...

That is an extremely good point... have a +1. Really knocks my theory completely out of the water...

Ok, this theory combines several others and makes several (mostly baseless) assumptions: 1/ Ishar is in Shinovar and is responsible for the cultural developement of the Shin. Discussed here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4406-introduction-and-a-convoluted-theory/ 2/ Ishar's Order in the KR table is that of Bondsmiths Discussed here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4323-seattle-signing-report-out-101413/ 3/ Bondsmiths were able to forge shardplate and shardblades Discussed here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4396-do-bondsmiths-create-shardblades-shardplate/ Basically the theory is: Assuming the above are true (big ask + not supported by any real evidnece) Szeth commited some transgrassion, Ishar created his Sharblade and made him trutheless by giving it to him. Really, I appreciate this barely qualifies as a theory and with the little information we have we can make any theory fit the data. Thematically though this kind of ties in with the corrupted / Fallen Heralds idea as well as being a pretty plausible explanation for Szeth that does not require him to carry an Honorblade (which I am still not convinced by).

Like the idea of one of the Heralds in Shinovar... may he is the god that Taravangian mentions... (somthing brother????)... Anyway, I am still not sold on the Szeth carries an honorblade theory, although I am less certain than I was, I await to be proved wrong . Like people have said Honorblades do not dissappear when they are dropped and do dissappear when the Heradl dies. When Taln falls unconcious, his blade does not dissappear. Also, as said above, the stone shamans will recover Szeths blade when he dies (assuming Szeth is correct). These things lead me against it being an Honorblade... On the other hand.... Suppose, the Herald in Shinovar made Szeths blade for him? Combining several Theories..... IF Ishar is in Shinovar... Also IF Ishar is Herald of Bondsmiths... Also IF Bondsmiths used to make Shardblades... Ishar, for some reson, made a new type of shardblade and gave it to Szeth... Now that wouold be truly crazy! EDIT: So crazy in fact, that I think I will make a new thread about it!

I think we can eliminate: Alakavish (Surgebinder that started war before Nohadon’s desolation) Nohadon Karm (Nohadon’s advisor) Since the Heralds were all in Damnation at the time of the vision (after a Desolation).

I am not convinced Dalinar used any surgebinding on the Chasmfiend. I do not belive Dalinar has yet attracted a spren due to him carrying a shardblade (we know Syl's reaction was negative toward's it). Now he has given it up, I think he will attract one pretty quickly. As for his order, I think it could be either he has displayed the attributes for both Stonewards (Resolute / Builder) and Ishars order (Pious / Guiding). I think I tend more towards Ishar's order: Pious - Much of Dalinar's story was about his conflict in accepting the visions and needing to follow what they show. Guiding - The other major point for Dalinar is his need to det an example to the other Alethi and guide them back to the codes of honor.

I always assumed that, whatever order, Dalinar had not attracted a spren yet because of him carrying a shardblade. We know that Kaladin's rejection was a significant factor is Syl's attraction to him. We have also seen her reaction to Dalinar's shardblade. I suspect that when Dalinar feels sick on the battlefield, it is a similar feeling to the revulsion Kaladin felt when he had the chance to take one and from a similar source. I think if he had not carried a shardlade he could have attracted either a Stonward or a Bondsmith spren as he displays attributes of both orders. I Still think the question is slighthly up in the air, but I would also tend towards Bondsmith for our favourite highprince. Pious from his acceptance of the visions and his choice to follow what they say. Guiding from his promotion of the codes (and Nohadon's book) and his need to set an example to the other Alethi.

My impression of that scene was, as you say, that I was an unclaimed blade, so could be carried normally. Thinking about this question, I was reminded of something Brandon saying about intent being important in most of his magic systems... So maybe if you indend to knock someone back with a flat strike (or knock them out with a pomel strike) then your intent will mean that you will get a physical blow from the weapon... Having said that though, we know that if your intent was to amputate a limb, this would not happen (the limb just goes dead). Another question to add to the list if I ever manage to get to a signing.

What happens if you hit someone with the flat of a shardblade? Or pommel strike them?

Sorry this is off topic, but this sent my geek pendant side into overdrive... The dark side is NOT more powerful.... That is all... carry on.

This is the big one for me that kills the communication / perception surge theory... The surges are all based aroud natural forces so I think it hightly unlikely that this will be broken... Having said that, I definitly think that one of the Orders will be able to do some form of communication... My favorite guess for the last surge is: Vibration or Resonance. No real basis for this though, just a feeling...

Thank you, You have hit on the same problem I encountered defining the focus. Both Spren and Gemstones are recurring themes in Roshar magic. The gems seem like a logical focus, but then, a spren could also been seen in the same way... as could the metal framework in the fabrials. Maybe it is all three together.

Ok, so I was thinking about invested objects we have seen in the Cosmere to try and find some commonalities in order to gain some insight into the construction and nature of Shardblades and Shardplate. The big headline invested objects we know of are: Nightblood Metalminds Hemalurgic Spikes Fabrials (modern) Making Invested ObjectsFirstly, we know how Nighblood, Metalminds, Spikes and Fabrials are made: Nightblood was a regular sword invested with a huge number of breaths (1000?) and given a Command. The breaths provide the investiture and the Command is the focus of Nalthian magic. Metalminds - The Feruchemist 'saves' an attribute into the appropriate metal for use later. The investiture comes from the Feruchemist and the focus is the metal. Hemalurgic Spikes – the appropriate metal is stabbed into (or through?) an individual with the appropriate power, in the correct location and therefore gets charged with the power. This can them be grafted onto the recipient by stabbing them with the spike (again on the correct location). The Investiture comes from the donor and the metal is again the focus. Fabrials (modern) – A spren is trapped in a gem that is cut in a certain way and mounted in a framework. The cut and type of gem determines the species spren that is trapped and the framework determines the final application of power available. In this case the Spren seems to be providing the investiture and focus seems to be the gemstone. (I am far less certain about this as the metal framework seem to have an impact on the application of the final fabrial). In all the cases above, the common theme is that they all began life as mundane objects, even if specific materials or shapes were required. This may seem obvious but I think it is worth noting. Invested Objects in ActionWhen we look at the various types of invested objects in use, there are also some general commonalities. Nightblood – Acts as a self aware sword and consumes breath from the wielder. In this case, I believe the Breath is acting as a power source for Nightblood’s abilities. Fabrials (modern) – Have a single function as defines by the makeup. IT is not explicitly stated I the book but I have always assumed that the gemstones in the fabrial must be infused for them to work. This would be consistent with our knowledge of how magic works on Roshar. Therefore the Stormlight is acting as a power source for the fabrial’s abilities. Metalminds – Returns stored attributes for use. No real power source here, I think, due to the end neutral nature of Feruchemy. You can only use what you store so there is no need for a power source. Spikes – Imbue recipient with power though spiking. Again no power source required since it is end negative. The maximum you could graft to the recipient is the total of what you stole from the donor. This is more shaky ground but I believe each end positive result requires an active power source to make the objects function as required. Shardblades and ShardplateSo now I come to the theory aspect of my post. First, I believe that both Plate and Blade are end positive as we do not see any diminishing qualities in either of these. Neither do thay seem to have a trade off of power with the holder / wearer. So looking at the above discussions I have come to the following conclusions. Plate / Blade started life as regular swords / armor and were invested afterwards making / forging. (Given the ornate nature of many blades, they may have been carved in wood and then soulcast into metal before being invested). Given this is it logical that different weapons could be invested in the same manner. So swords were merely a convention with the KR rather than a necessity of construction. By the same logic a ShardShield (along similar lines to Plate) would also be possible. Blades draw power / stormlight from somewhere*. Plate is clearly powered by stormlight in the form of gemstones (if it was powered differently in the past, I believe it still required a power source). I am not going to theorise about how this investiture occurs. Maybe one of the Surges / Orders we have not yet seen allows the constriction of the Blade / Plate. Maybe only a full KR is able to make them. Maybe a spren needs to sacrifice itself to make them. Maybe the Heralds made them. Maybe a wizard did it! The big question to answer this is: What is the focus of magic on Roshar? Either way I think the above are fairly logical conclusions Why do you guys think? (* I suppose a possible work around to this could be that the investiture of the blades makes it special abilities properties of the blade rather than abilities. However given that the Plate does not behave this way, I think it unlikely)

This seems to run in line with apet theory I am working on... Basically I am thinking that what we call 'magic' in the cosmere is a 'flow of investiture from one realm to another'... Analogous to Force being a 'mass undergoing acceleration'... I will post a proper theory on thisonce I work out the kinks

But surely the investiture itself provides the spiritual presence? A mundane object, I agree would probably have a minimal spiritual presence. But investiture, by its nature is mostly spiritual, isn't it? Therefore the act of investing an object gives it a very strong spiritual component. For me, the interesting thing about Shardblades is that they seem to have a reduced Physical presence compared to regular swords. They seem ony to be kept in the physical world by force of will. I suppose a realmatic answer would say, that the cognitive force of the user imposes a physical presence on an otherwise mostly spiritual object.

This could well be the case with the Midnight Essenced vision... If a travel fabrial is like a linked pair then one could be at the KR base / outpost, the other could then be carried by the Windrunner. So the scenario would be: - message of attack is recieved at the KR base, - Windrunner picks up the linked travel fabrial and jets off. - When he arrives on the scene, the Stoneward uses the linked fabrial to travel to the Windrunner's location. To me, given what we know of modern fabrials (particularly Spanreeds), this seems completely plausable.

I don't know... ability to use surges is dependent on having a spren. (I know... I know... Szeth does not have a spren... lets assume he is a special case and move on ) Anyway... can a spike steal someones spren and forcibly bind it to them? Now that is an interesting question... I will ask it if I ever get to go to a signing

I think it is important to remember that Brandon doesn't have to share all these little spoilers with us. He would be perfectly within his rights to keep everything to himself until he publishes the book. I think we should celebrate the generosity of Brandon that he chooses to engage with fans rather than wishing it was better somehow. Just look at all the fun we have had since the Seattle signing, with al the KR table info, it has been brilliant! For me, the anticipation is half the fun and the Steelhunt info has only made that sweeter. The Steelhunt codes are not terribly difficult to come by. I live in the UK so have not been able to get my own unique code. But I was still able to access the content thanks to the generosity of some 17th Sharders (you knwo who you are)! I never go involved in the WoT online stuff as I only came to the party after Book 7 was published (The Eye of the World was published when I was 9). I am going to enjoy reading / looking at / speculating on and theroising about all the information that Brandon chooses to release ahead of WoR and I will have a blast doing it. Life is too short to get disgruntled about this stuff.

I know nothing about regular swords... But how much of the advantages / disadvantages are due to the weights? A massive claymore would surely require two hands to weilds and be slow and powerful - one hit = death (or loss of a limb) A Rapier would be light and quick - death by a thousand cuts The advantages arise out of the different weights of the swords and this their differing power and mobility. Shardblades are light enough that a massive blade can be weilded single handed by a young girl. Power means nothing either as (with a few notable exceptions) nothing stops a sharblade. I suppose the point I am making is that there is no momentum considerations when sparring with shardblades. I think this makes the length and reach much more relevant to the fight. Therefore a longer blade would have an advantage in an otherwise equal fight due to the extra reach. I have to say, after reading Jasnah's prologue I am less opposed to the idea of Szeth carrying Jezriens blade than I was. Not completely sold yet, but this is certainly suggestive...

I have, honestly, had my suspicions about Jezrien ever since I read the prologue for the first time... I am torn between Jez being a double agent or just having a super secret grand plan for victory. Either way, I am absolutely certain he did not just give up because he could not take it anymore. At the moment I am more on the Jezrien has a plan side of the argument. More acurately I thnk: Jezrien had a plan which went tits up and fell to pieces when the Radients quit but which will be resurected and stitched back together again as more surgebinders appear. I think in general I prefer the Heralds as fallen gods rather that intentional traitors...