Aon Tia

Oh god, I am going to exhaust my 20 likes of the day in this thread.

Hence i was very cautious about not using the word "Hate" anywhere in my posts. I dont want ppl to hate him, not at all but i just want ppl to acknowledge that Mr. T has done far far worse things than some of the other characters that ppl love trashing cough Moash cough yea ok may be not touted as a saviour but i think he still wants to be that saviour more than anything else. This is what he interprets what the diagram is saying. And the ''He'' who is interpreting is the monster he. And i really do not trust this monster T, because i think this monster T just wants to take out the competition i.e. Dalinar for the privilege of saving humanity. I agree with all of this and it makes it sound so much more interesting. There is so much potential of success here and of things going terribly wrong here. In a way, he is also a tool in the hand of odium that may be at the right moment turn out to be cultivations tool all along. So similar to Dalinar! Yes i can definitely see Mr. T dancing to cultivation's strings right now.

Leshvi does tell him about the desolations and let me tell you why we fight. So we can assume that he knows a lot. And may be now he genuinely believes that he is fighting for the right side, the suppressed.

@Honorless may be he sees himself as saviour of humankind. But the everyday taravangian as Calderis would put it, it feels like is more worried about being the saviour than doing the actual saving. His vanity is more important to him as of now. May be because he feels that he has given up so much that he deserves to be touted as ultimate saviour of Humanity on Roshar. His actions in OB come across as being more motivated by a need to defeat Dalinar, not really because he thinks that Dalinar will lose or doom all but because he is afraid that Dalinar will succeed and Taravangian will not get to the leader of humans. He did not really know that he is going to lose his mental or physical well being when he went to Nightwatcher and asked for his boon. So I dont see that as a sacrifice he willingly made on his part to achieve his results. Well that is my problem. I disagree with his philosophy, ends do not justify means. well as for Jasnah and Mr. T, there is a difference between ascribing to a school of ethics and following it fanatically and over-zealously. Jasnah too had some terrible ideas, and i am glad that she is willing to try moderate measures first, and that she highly respects Dalinar/Kaladin who is there to temper her ideas with reasoning and compassion. Please keep her away form Taravangian and let her not see the diagram!! I can agree with that. I think he might be right all along and has come up with the way to save all, even if everyday T is too incapable of understanding it. Plus, i am very curious about the diagram part myself because i see cultivation either directly or through NW, having played some major part here. It could be one of the many many things that cultivation is doing behind the scenes that we dont have much idea about.

good one..

Yes at times reading his povs are difficult because they are really dark. Not for his actions but his mental space right now is a very sad place to be. He does not think that anything can go right so he is just going with the flow. Whatever you say, kill a god, why not, after what I did to kaladin, how could killing a god condemn me more? People also think that there is going to be a big fight between kaladin and Moash, but I am not convinced that Moash or kaladin either can, when it would really come to down to it, I don’t think either can kill the other. I think they still love ( brotherly love) each other too much. I cant remember any instance where Moash disrespected kaladin. Not in any of his thoughts even. Just that b4 salute but I guess even that was not done by Moash to mock him or disrespect him at all. We react to it that way because it is a knife in the heart of kaladin, as kaladin feels it.

Ok may be. I guess I can see it from your point of view too. He did not mean to hurt the child, I think he hardly noticed that there was a child in the way. He was under the influence of odium I guess and was consumed with hatred, just really wanted to kill elhokar before he became radiant. I guess Moash for sure would have thought this guy, this guy does not deserve to be radiant. Let me just stop it right here.

Your training helped me kill this man you are trying to protect, you fought with me to protect. Yup Moash is really In a dark place right now it is almost sad. He is a classic example of how an eye for an eye is a terrible idea. I can’t remember but I think he says that killing elhokar did not fill the void.. did he ? but he just found himself going down that road and he thinks he can’t turn back anyway so I might as well do this too and that and that. He sounds like he is in depression much like kaladin was. Except kaladin blames himself whereas Moash is giving up his pain and guilt to odium. Almost anyone in bridge 4 could have gone down that road, kaladin almost did himself.

I actually do not really want to discuss the diagram. I am sure it has been discussed. I just wanted to discuss that how taravangian is a major villain in SA and nobody seems to be counting him in the major villains. Whether his villainous actions following the diagram have led to desired outcomes or has accidentally helped dalinar or not, should be irrelevant as far as judgement of his character is concerned.

Ok I agree but still it is confirmed that the way these surges work for bondsmiths is way way more than how they work for windrunners and stonewards. How exactly are they more, how much, it is fun to think about. Also how different orders sharing a common surge, use these surges differently so also I think for the three bondsmiths probably these three surges work differently. And the very reason there were so few bondsmiths is because I think they are too powerful. It is a means of maintaining balance. So also I will not be surprised if each bondsmith gets something unique too. I think it is plausible. These are godspren with vast powers.

I just really want to talk about Taravangian and all the awful heinous things that he has done. I see that he is not even counted as one of the big villains! Whereas I think he has done much much worse things as compared to Moash or amaram or some might even argue Sadeas. The veden war the world leader assassinations through szeth all the stuff he pulls to undermine dalinar, trying to kill dalinar secret alliance with odium now and the worst, absolute worst is his death rattle fishing. I don’t think people discuss him enough.. so please if you have any views, please share.

I agree. My first reply was that they will be given surges of adhesion and tension. but is there going to anything extra? Something cultivation related may be?

Has it been confirmed that tanavasts CS has merged into stormfather. I guess this is the one right? Questioner Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time... Brandon Sanderson Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are. #bondsmiths #cognitive shadows #connection #honor #stormfather Sources: Theoryland google doc report

Yes but how is this ability to give curses and bond going to lead to extra powers for her radiant? It must in someway but what? Besides how latest is this curse boon thing? Had she always been doing that or it’s a recent thing. Will he r bondsmith also grant boons and curses? Or is it that she will get better at understanding the wishes of people and become more efficient at granting them

Yes but when you really think about it, There are other people who have done far far worse. I mean, taravangian and what he did, I think is much worse. Moash has tried to elhokar, then killed him then killed jezrien but that’s it really think of the number of deaths taravangian has orchestrated. I am also surprised that szeth does not try to condemn him in public or something. He is still in the coalition even!

I dislike/really actually hate Moash, yes because he killed Elhokar but i understand why. What really gets me, is that he kicked a little 3-4 year old kid in the stomach who was lying in his fathers lap, then killed his father and then he has the audacity to look at Kaladin and give him the bridge four salute!! oohhh.. too much. I always want to know what went through his head, when he saw Kaladin there before killing elhokar, did he not wonder if he can just go to kaladin and ask for forgiveness or understanding or something. And then he got a fancy sword and was told to kill "your God" and no questions asked he just did it! He is one scary mean angry depressed dude right now. He really believes that he has no way to come back now. Which would be very interesting to see where his story goes from here. I hate Sadeas way more than either Amaram or Moash though, but it has been a whole book since he has been killed and amaram died only recently in OB but Moash on the other hand, is only getting more and more powerful. I think that is the reason for the Moash Hatred online. He is the only one left alive out of the big three.

good point. May be that led him to think that desolation is coming

I can not think of anything irrational about hating Moash

Yes I think the breaking of a herald should have reverberations throughout the three realms. I am sure that some people like hoid, taravangian on his extra smart day, and spren in CR or radiants through their bonded spren can feel those and know that a desolation is close. Also ulim somehow escaped so I don’t know may be that was also a trigger point

So does that really mean that heralds were less powerful or you can say efficient than radiants? Or is it only true for people who are not heralds and hold honor blades? Remember Taln’s supernaturally quick reflexes

Latest update: SA4 rough draft 73%

KRs would not survive beheadings though unlike TLR. And mistborn if they have duralumin and atium, and then the steel inquisitors I still think that scadrial will win

@Llstml oops missed the neutral planet part.

I agree with you totally here. Dalinar need not be seen as leading forces of good, essentially he is leading forces of honor against that of odium. And the intent of honor does not necessarily mean that it is good. Honor cares more about oaths and the keeping of the oaths, whether the oaths were inherently good or not was probably irrelevant to the shard honor. Therefore, dalinar can be the champion of the shard honor, he may even become the vessel of honor Which need not mean that he has got a good morality character certificate. Also note that the society of alethkar has been based on the religion started by tanavast and it is hardly an ideal society. It is pretty messed up. Honor as a concept is not inherently good. A war general leading his armies to victory is considered honourable by them even if he caused total annihilation of enemy cities and forces.