Aon Tia

I checked again, they did not know that someone can be fullborn and atium is useful only to a fullborn plus they did not know that tlr had feruchemy they did not know his kids would have feruchemy so it’s not like they could teach him. Sazed was unique in that he shared knowledge of feruchemy with the gang otherwise terris keepers were very hush hush about it all.

How many people know about all the metals? I don’t think that Terris people knew of atiums use as a metalmind... so may be he had kids, and they were mistborn who died, may be they were feruchemists who eventually died. Rare chance is that some of them could have been fullborn but what if TLR never shared all his knowledge of important metals with them like gold or atium may be. Feruchemists were officially extinct and the ones who were secret like sazed would not Even know that TLR’s kids would have feruchemy let alone teach them. And any weird extra powers these kids showed probably were attributed to their semi divinity. So even if a fullborn were born, he may have never learnt the full extent of his abilities and lived a long age and died.

I have always found it weird that it was assumed the poison was in the goblet. To me, it had always felt like it was the pie that was meant for Tyrion that had the poison which Jeoff ate, I think. Mans killing jeoff at the wedding, did tyrells no good Anyways who cares, since we are never going to get the answers and it is the only thing he deserves.

Rlain pov chapter was sad too

Yes and I did not see it coming. But when u read Warbreaker again, there is so much foreshadowing. It is very ironic that the one sister who is supposed to be hopeless is doing so well and the other sister who is deemed ideal, messes up so much!

Yes i agree, also vivenna and when she learns about denth and gang, her time on the streets, tyndwyl's death, wax crying that he killed his wife again, Rysn interlude in OB, leras's death, recreance scene is very sad too.

Okay lets get down to it. Initially i thought that he is a good, nice king, very different from that of alethi high society and there politics and back stabbings. But the moment, it was revealed that the next person szeth has been sent to kill is Taravangian, then i realised that something is very wrong here! I could not believe that he is the one ordering all those murders!! and the scene at the hospital, where they are draining people of blood to kill them to record their death rattles!! I can not believe that he is so cruel, cold hearted. He is praised for all the hospitals that he has opened. And he can use them for this! Were those the same hospitals that Shallan was staying in? Someone like him is capable of so much evil, all in the name of Greater good. wow.. Brandon is one of the few authors who can surprise me. And i really like that about him. I can never really know where a story is going with him. T 's boon and curse are very interesting. NW certainly has a weird sense of humour. But seeing as he gets when he is super-smart, i guess it is good that such days come sparingly. Like i said i really don't like him. The decisions he has made, the results thereof, to cause a civil war, he weakened a whole nation, caused infighting so he can become the king because he wants to present a united front! At a time, when humanity needs to stay strong! United we are stronger but if the process makes us weaker instead, then the whole exercise was futile. He was willing to let odium have Dalinar as a champion so that he could then take over leading the coalition he has formed!! Again weaken your forces to further your personal agenda! And now he has made a deal with odium, why am i not surprised! His future and where it is going, i have no idea. Only that he is going to work with odium, give inside information on Dalinar although i dont think D will trust him much, but ultimately at some crucial juncture, it will be revealed that he was cultivation's pawn all along. Much like Dalinar.

but it was not Batman style.. It was pretty awesome though!!

who is the dude? who is the 'he'? Margery who? Navani: to be batman, she would have to be a KR KR or Scientist like Lucian Foxx, who cares as long as she develops really cool tech. I want her to invent a smart phone basically video calling, it should be easy, they already have spanreeds, so long distances problem is already solved, use illumination to create images also.

We have discussed all of these points, this discussion is getting repetitive. @Ahriman I totally agree. @Parallax you think that his crime is irredeemable and then you suggest that OB needs to be written again. I disagree, popular opinion also seems to disagree. No one said public confession was redemption, but only that D is not hiding what he did, BS has not swept the entire thing under the rug. D is not leading the forces of good, he is leading the forces of honor. I think D has to forgive himself, that is always the first step for any reformation or redemption and then next step could be atonement. A confrontation in which you suggest that Dalinar should let himself be killed, so you do want him dead. That is the only way forward for Dalinar According to you. Rathalas massacre was not treated lightly by Dalinar at all. It had a huge impact on his life. It completely broke him, incapacitated him for years. He literally had to go and basically get it removed from his head, in order to be able to even function normally. It was a turning point in his life. The alethi society has treated it lightly yes, they are a war mongering people and they have treated it as a normal war crime. And I am sure that dalinar’s next step towards atonement is going to be to try and create a society where such crimes are not ok. He clearly believes that we, as alethi society need to do better. Hence the book he has written is a first step towards that.

I agree about the possibility of 5 sub-shards of honor, I wanted to say that but then I went to sleep mans I agree that unmades and their area of interest seems to align somewhat with the various passions dalinar saw odium comprises of. Thrill- nergoul , gluttony, greed - ashertmam there is someone asking for sorrow from Moash which could be another unmade may be black fisher.

It is debatable. And she was trying to get the heir of house stark to marry her elder brother so ulterior motive. Has not happened yet. Tv show does not count, please don’t count it. Thank you for agreeing with me atleast some one does !! There you go, thank you @Honorless for describing her evilness I doubt that even in the books I don’t get the feeling that she is good. She is manipulative conniving willing to marry a monster for the crown etc

@Elegy yes I agree but really I don’t want their to be 10 mini- shards of honor. I have read that post too but I am not a big fan of it. Sounds too complicated... however, honor splitting into 2 mini shards, is the maximum I want to go into it. Have no good reason to think this but I just do.

Haha this was in reference to Margery Tyrell she is Rose, her house symbol and thorns are her evilness and Cersei did try to pluck the thorns did not quite work out well for her, because the thorns when plucked, hurt the person doing it more than it hurts the Rose You seem to be making my point only here. I don’t think that amaram wants to save anyone, he just wants to be seen as doing it. Whereas T is atleast genuinely trying in his own misguided and selfish way to save people

Tha saviour = T not Amaram I would still insist and can a Rose exist without thorns...

@Elegy thanx. it also mean then that unity may indeed be a shard but not necessarily a reinterpretation of honor

Yes but I m saying he wants to be seen as a hero or model figure that ppl should aspire to be like not really a saviour his saviour arguments were more like justification he provided but deed down what he really wanted was to be seen as inspiring people T I think really wants to be the saviour

Yes but I always thought that it would always be 16. There were more people present there than 16. We know of two more atleast. I somehow thought that any of the shards can splinter into chunks but none of those chunks would be a shard

So their could have been 32 shards? Instead of 16?

Self- validation and social-validation

Amaram wants power first and foremost and then obviously his image is extremely important to him. He wants to be respected, honoured and In a position of power no matter which side it is. But I can not recall anytime saving people was really a thing with him..??

Odium + autonomy = rebellion/ violent revolution ambition + autonomy = dictatorship or anarchy devotion + honor = fanatical rigid devotion leading to cults?

He appears motivated by vanity when he is deciding what is to be done about Dalinar. Because he really does not want him to succeed... Will he even survive the trip to the valley again... I doubt it he has grown very old very frail. I like the idea of navani being a sibling bondsmith purely because I want her to make scientific discoveries. I always thought that ambition + odium = vengeance so cultivation + odium could be something like imperialism, may be. Haha really want to see how a new vessel changes the shard or vice versa or a new shard changes an old shard.

Any ideas on what you think the combination could be? Do you think passionately wanting to cultivate or grow or cultivating hatred?

I still don’t see how either cultivation or honor alone also would be bad for a world. Endowment seems to be doing ok too in her world. But best for the world I think honor if he were alone... I don’t think that he is only about oaths, there are underlying values he has of protection, justice, logic, caring, unity etc