Mandamon

Personally, I'd want to see what's in the next chapter, but either is fine. Have you finished writing the story yet? If you haven't it's usually a good idea to finish before starting revisions. That way you can see if anything comes out at the end that can make the beginning tie in better.

Ah. Got it! Yes, that's a good point. I can try to bring out that Ma would be skeptical of Mo's paranoia.

Apologies, but mine is about 5500 words, if that's alright. It completes the next section of the novella. Glad you're doing better, @Robinski!

Yes--this will get beefed up in the edit process. This is quite a bit earlier. You should be able to get an estimate of how much earlier by some clues between this one and the novel, and M referencing his age. More on less. I didn't want to do full-on Ent, but they are definitely more in the "ambulatory plant" category than "animal." Suggestions are welcome too! Great! This will expand on some side-themes in seeds, and will also tie in a little to the second seeds book! Thanks as always, @kais!

Hey @Curiosity's Splinter--quick word of advice/warning. We are all in this forum to help each other get better and offer honest critique of each other's work. Basic rules of critiquing etiquette are: 1) Don't defend your work to critiques. You put your stuff out to get feedback, and you don't have to take any advice, but you did ask for it. 2) No personal attacks on those who are giving you feedback. They are here to help and you will quickly lose any credit with them and others. Remember that you don't have to take any advice. 3) If you aren't trying to get something published, then I would state that so we can tailor our critiques so we do not include anything that deal with that sphere. You may get a lot less feedback this way, as several of us are published authors. 4) Playing a race card is never a good idea. Take it from another white male, of which there are many on this forum, with no problems or perceived lack of "protection". Policies apply to everyone. If you have any other questions about the best way to interact with this forum, I am happy to help.

I mean, I wasn't going to submit in lieu of more revisions, but if we've only got one other for next week, I'll throw my hat in again. I can get some reactions on some other characters in the book...

Yep, murder is tagged as not having enough reaction. I think I got better at it later on, but need to shore up this first part. I think this does go back to more of a mystery later, so hopefully I'm still fulfilling that goal! Noted. This is still a bit of a handwave. I'll figure out what to do with it. It was discussed a bit in the first novella. I can flesh this out some more. Basically the two house folks are...eccentric, but hearing three houses (or half the music of the universe) leads to mental breakdown and death from information overload. Nope. Agree fully. I think this was bad wording on my part. I didn't mean to imply that insanity = murder. More that Moor is thinking a bit outside the box as to what could happen with meeting an undiscovered civilization. No telling what their government would be like and what their intentions would be toward other civilizations. No way to know if maji there have free reign, or are made into some sort of magical weapons. Also, if it's not quite getting across, Moor is a bit paranoid. Hm. On this one, I both want to submit more to see what you think, and hold back until I get it a little more polished. I'm trying to go more for the "nothing is as it seems" murder rather than "how did this body get killed" mystery. So yes, the body itself is important, but the reasons behind it are the real mystery, especially in relation to the Society. Thanks as always for the comments, @industrialistDragon! This will help greatly in revisions.

Good to know. Just made a note of it because it struck me while reading. I took a look back at this to see why I made the note. You do have good descriptions, but I think what struck me was the number of descriptors. I've been focusing on this in my writing, as I've had some advice from published writers that often less is more in this case. That's probably why it popped out for me. From the first page: shadowed roof Quiet terror expectant hush sudden fit ragged breath fragile smile Jagged fissures burning light Pebble sleet snickering laughter sulfurous odor It's not that these are bad, but they tend to clump in paragraphs, or even sentences, and can lead to a reader fatigue where there are too many of them. Sometimes it's just a fissure, rather than a jagged fissure. A fit usually is sudden, so the extra word isn't needed. This is a more subjective commentary, so take it with a grain of salt, but for me, I've found my writing flows better when I remove some of the descriptors and only leave the ones that are really necessary. Hope that helps!

Great suggestion on the noise in the Symphony. Honestly, I put this stuff in last minute as a sort of placeholder for what I intend, so I will definitely be expanding on it. I think this leads to your confusion later on as well. I'll need to dig into this and make it work logically. There's some more later, but this will also get expanded in the next draft. Good catch. It's half a plot hole, and half that I didn't explain it well. I'll fix this. Better to say one individual created the theory behind it, and had help to actually put it together.

I read the tag, but wasn't sure if that was referring to just getting the books, or the whole dig site in general. I'd vote for the latter For me, the basic, fun part of this story is four teens/college students find books that show them how to become D&D classes. At this point, I'm not sure what the giant/elf.dwarf/pre-neolithic angle adds, but it's an interesting part of the worldbuilding. I'm guessing anything from time travel, to hidden history of other species, to magically created materials, to ancient high tech society. Any/all would be fun to read about. Past that, everything is up for grabs.

Just a note: the submission limit is usually 5000 words, unless you get approval in the submission thread. Especially in a week with 5 submitters, this is a bit long. I think the idea of this story, where four friends get power from these books, is fine. Tying them in with the mystery of where the skeletons came from is also fine. But the whole dig site part of it just isn't working for me. There's too much that has to go wrong--even someone not versed in scientific will notice that it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Maybe one of the books gets out on the black market? Maybe S has an uncle/aunt/cousin/grandparent that runs the dig and slips them inside one day? There's a number of other ways to get to the point of the four reading the books, which is the interesting part. Now that's happened, I want to read more of this story, but I want to forget everything that happened at the dig site. Second, I need a lot more description of the four, and a way to distinguish them. Right now I can't picture any of them, and changing POV so much means I forget which one I'm in. There's not anything I can tell that differentiates how S thinks from J, or the others. Notes while reading: pg 1: The metal detector joke is a weak opening for the chapter. pg 1: "cap on me" --haven't heard this phrase before. pg 3: “C’mon people, let’s crack ‘em open!” --I have a feeling the actual scientist running this dig is having a stroke right now. pg 5: "explained for the benefit of our future viewers." --or for the readers? Who's going to be watching this video? pg 6: "This cloth looks like it was laid in there yesterday" --they're opening the case in the middle of the dirt and everything? It'll get contaminated by all sorts of stuff. pg 8: "I’m going to have to bend it all the way open in order to photograph the pages" --every proper scientist dies from shock. pg 9: "Professor Weisman had gotten out of bed." --wait, I thought they were outside? Have they been in the trailer? There's not much description, so maybe I missed something. Also, How is professor sleeping through this, and not screaming at them all to stop? pg 11: Ah...this is in J's POV. I had completely forgotten about that. Isn't he the creationist? pg 12: Yep. Definitely need some more to separate these characters. pg 16: It seems a missed opportunity that we don't see H reading the book and getting this knowledge. pg 27: The story is enjoyable one the crew starts reading the magic books and getting powers. There's still not a lot of description of setting or character, so I have a hard time connecting with the four, but it's got potential. Especially with the changes in POV, I can't keep track of who's who. All the POVs read exactly the same. Is there a way to bypass all the problems with the archeological site and just get to this stage? pg 29: I missed S going outside again and had to read through a second time. There really needs to be more description of the transitions. pg 32: "I bought the sculpture" --the store is open at this time of night? pg 34: "he’s just as likely to burn them" --arrrgh. Yes, just take out all the archaeological dig parts. It will be easier. pg 35-37: This last section is strange. Part of it is in present tense, and it almost reads like a wrap up of the story.

Thanks for putting the time in, @toomsta! Every little bit helps. Great minds think alike! My original inspiration for my magic system was the music of the spheres, of Greek philosophy. Yep, I usually put in more emotion in my second draft, so I can make the main character a bit less psychopathic. There's an explanation for all the secrecy in the second sub this week, so see what you think of it.

Overall, this has some good potential, although near the end I realized this is a prologue, which throws me off a bit from the rest of the story. I was looking forward to fighting more gigantic beasts! The prose is over the top in places. You have a good handle on imagery, and metaphor and simile, but I'd be careful of overusing it and tiring out the reader. I started to get a glimpse of character for T, but then his whole family (of only men somehow?) dies and he doesn't even think about them again. The other characters are powerhouses, at the top of their game in order to fight a giant cat thing, but I don't have any sense of who they are or what this culture is. There are also no women present. One was mentioned by name (I think) so they do exist, but why do they not hold any positions of power? Did no women fight Atl.? I'd be interested to read more, but I'd like to see more of why I should care about these characters. Notes while reading: The first page quickly draws me in, though the prose is a bit purple. pg 3: "Bloody beams of light" --Not sure what this means. Actual blood, or red sunlight, or what? pg 4: "He felt the heartbeat of his brother vanish with the hit." --Also not sure about this one. Can you feel someone else's heartbeat? pg 4: "He saw no one around him. I was the only one who made it up, huh?" --I would expect he would see something, and also more emotion to the realization that his family died. pg 6: "as if he could somehow pull her back" --why does he want to pull her back? pg 9: The first couple pages were very exciting, but by now I'm getting a little tired of just lots of description. It's good, but it's all action and bravery and Kill The Monster! By now I want to start to learn about the main character and his new aquaintences. pg 10: "As the folk traveled, the monsters dissolved like sand in water" --why? She's not dead, so what's killing them? pg 11: I feel like I'm supposed to recognize Ten, Mat, and Wash, but they haven't really been introduced. pg 11: Whose brother and son are we talking about? This isn't T, is it? pg 12: I'm assuming the Dark Lord is not the giant cat thing (Edit--nope, this is explained well enough later on) pg 14: Ten's speech is drifting away from the formal style he was speaking in before. pg 17: The POV of the monster sort of works here, but it's a bit of a switch from the rest of the chapter. Putting the name at the end reads like this is the end of a short story, to me. I'd be confused if this came after I started reading a story, expecting more. I think since the warning about docx files was from 2011, it's not as much a danger that someone can't open them. I haven't had anyone complain in the *looks up profile* 5 and a half years I've been on here (good lord...).

Just read through your comments above--I had completely forgotten about the dwarf in the beginning, and the strange dreams. If either of those had made an appearance in this chapter, it would have helped. This still went very slow for me, and I had trouble not skimming to find out when something would happen. There's a lot of names too, and I can't really keep track of who's who. It was a little unclear who A was marrying at first, though that might be Weekly Reader Syndrome (WRS) from the last submission. This is well written, and I'm looking for a story, but just not finding anything yet. I haven't seen a hook in the first two chapters except for "strangers come to town" which is pretty general. If there's some action coming up soon that would help, but I wouldn't have gotten even this far if I'd picked this up in a store. pg 1: peak -> peek pg 3: "nothing most chickens had to say to one another was all that interesting" --This almost sounds like she can understand chicken-speak, which, given as this is a fantasy, may need clarification. pg 5: Is C going green with envy over whoever A is engaged to? This is confusing, as I don't think it's been directly stated that she is engaged, or to who. pg 7: Oh, she's marrying T. Have we met him yet? Starting to get confused with all the names. pg 8: "The twins were fraternal" --you already said this. pg 9: "Blood and ashes" --have we stumbled into WoT?

Hello folks, Here is the second part of my new mystery novel. Let me know what you think! The biggest complaint last time was why the society was secret and how it could be kept secret. I've added in that the members are under a geas (created within the Symphony) which the leader conveys on each member when they're brought in, and keeps them from talking to those outside the Society. I haven't fleshed it out completely, but let me know if that works for you in relation to the other conversations in this section. Other than that, let me know if anything is confusing, boring, or unbelieveable. Any comments on the characters emotions are also good. I tend to add more of that in later drafts, so it's good to know where I'm lacking. Thanks!

That's a good selection of books!

Or rather than adding people, you could just make any number of the four main characters female instead of male. S's name is already gender-neutral, for example...

Thanks to @Yuoaman, @industrialistDragon, @Rogueshar, and @Robinski! Great comments as always! Yep, seems like everyone is picking up on the society being secret as a weak plot point. I'm interested to see how the next section reads (where some of that is explained). I'm hoping to bring some of that information back to the beginning, and maybe have M. know about it, to clear things up. Sounds like the concept is intriguing, but execution is flawed... Glad you like it! The business side of magic caught my interest as I was writing and I expanded more as I went along. You also have a good solution to the Sherlock Holmes problem of the MC being too powerful. If he can apply skills from another set, that might help things feeling too "easy." Yep--I knew this one would be confusing. I'l have to think on how to present this without bogging things down. There will be more of this! It's something I'm developing in this draft and hope will be a lot stronger in the final product. Yep--this is something that I usually fill in more in later drafts. I've got more of it later in the story, but need to replicate here. I had problems with this too, but settled on it to differentiate "this" (self) and "that" (other) one. I'll try your suggestion of using "one" for Moor, and see if that works. Great comments all around (and thanks @Robinski as usual for the grammar and wording check!). This did exactly what I wanted, which is to point out where the opening needs to be punched up. I'm going to submit the second half of the first part next week and see how the opening of the story is received, the probably drop back a few weeks to tidy things up.

Yay! I had a gift certificate specifically to the Lego site, and it took me about 5 months to get it. They would have it in stock for about 1 day a month.

Could I also do next Monday? That should give me enough feedback to get started on revisions.

Overall, I'm interested by the concept of the story, and feel like we will see the anachronistic skeletons in action later, somehow. They seem too well-described to not also be characters. However, I think this could be cut down a whole lot, taking out some of the banter that doesn't progress the story, and cutting down on the technical jargon. Also, why on Earth is J included? He's literally someone who doesn't believe in evolution. No self-respecting scientist would have him anywhere near. Notes as I read: pg 2: Still don't really know who is who save that S. is the one they met at the dig. pg 3: The facial expressions talking is cute, but goes on for a while. pg 5: "creationist angle on things" --I didn't get this from J before. Actual creationist, or does this mean something else? pg 7: each conversation tends to go on a bit too long here, taking just another sentence to stuff in some worldbuilding fact, or overexplain something. Once or twice is fine, but this is starting to drag down the narrative for me. I'm also waiting for them to get to the skeleton... pg 7: The above is demonstrated in the discussion about jobs. A lot of this reads as fluff. I'm ready to see the body and find out what this is about. pg 11: Takes half the submission to get to this point. I think much of what is prior to the point could be cut in the interest of getting to the point. The banter is fun, but doesn't really build character, and isn't relevant to the plot. pg 12: So J is actually a creationist? Why is he here? No scientists in their right mind would invite someone like that to a dig. pg 12: "I usually weigh in on both sides just to stoke the fires. It’s fun." --I would disagree. Second section: The descriptions of the four skeletons were interesting--I get the feeling we will see these in action later in the book? However, this still felt dragged out by the overlong archeological explanations. I'm completely confused as to why J is here, and narrating parts of the video. Some of the reasons for the crew to get excited were pretty technical, and I don't think it got the emotion across that well. For example: "That’s the same matrix material as the bodies. That means there’s something from the same burial event here!” Doesn't really get across the excitement of "There's another body buried here!"

Completely unsurprised to learn we also share this affection. I got the Saturn V rocket set a few months ago!

Generally, whatever dating system works best for you. I use a sortable date system (year, month, day) so I can find things easily on my computer. Today's date would be 20180123.

@Curiosity's Splinter: You'll notice that people make requests on this thread. We have 5 slots open a week. @Silk is the one who approves them. I'm assuming if someone were to abuse the forum by spamming the account, they would be either removed from the list, banned from 17th Shard, or simply no one would review their work. Generally all the forum users abide by the rules, as we are all interested in getting and giving critiques, and helping each other grow as writers.

@Curiosity's Splinter, you can find all the submitting guidelines and formatting here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1369-welcome-to-reading-excuses/