Hoiditthroughthegrapevine

And Brilliantly done @TheDwarfyOne! The cadence and the imagery are perfect, really nice work!

That's some funny rust brother. According to this theory, Adonalsium's cognitive shadow would be the ziggy to Hoid's Scott Bakula.

Thanks! Out of upvotes for the moment, but will get you another one for your brilliant The Stranger duet when they trickle back in.

Holy crap, I have two daughters in elementary school. I am so worried about this part of life... Really funny @Wit Beyond Measure, I think this is great!

As per usual @Personification brilliantly done! Here's one that I think is long overdue, a view from Adonalsium's perspective about the fate of the Cosmere Post Shattering. Sung to the tune of Across the Universe by the Beatles, here is Across the Cos-e-mere: Shards are flying out like single thoughts torn from my broken mind They slither while they pass, they slip away across the cos-e-mere Pools of power, waves of joy are breaking from my fractured mind Possessing and investing worlds Ado-nal-sium, um Nothing's gonna change my mind Nothing's gonna change my mind Nothing's gonna change my mind Nothing's gonna change my mind Images of my intents which dance before me like a mar'ionette They pull Shards on and on across the cos-e-mere Gods maneuver like a restless wind Inside a closed system they Tumble blindly as they make their way Across the cos-e-mere Ado-nal-sium, um Nothing's gonna change my mind Nothing's gonna change my mind Nothing's gonna change my mind Nothing's gonna change my mind Sounds of warfare, sounds of strife are raging through my broken mind, splint'ring and dividing me Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns It calls me to reform from all across the cos-e-mere Ado-nal-sium, um Nothing's gonna change my mind Nothing's gonna change my mind Nothing's gonna change my mind Nothing's gonna change my mind Ado-nal-sium Ado-nal-sium Ado-nal-sium Ado-nal-sium Ado-nal-sium Ado-nal-sium...

Yeah, I've been unplugged from the Shard for a bit too, have lots of work that unfortunately doesn't get done when I'm writing Cosmere song parodies or making diagrams for Reverse pairing fabrials. C'est la vie. Calderis's question was a good one, and it's a pretty satisfying answer.

Just got my signed Mistborn trilogy!! The images are spoilered beneath the questions. MBFE Question: Are the Dysian Aimians agents of Cultivation? If not, are they in league with another group (excluding the Knights Radiant) that we have seen? Brandon's Answer: Kind of yes to both – kind of MBWoA Question (asked for @Calderis): If a person held enough breath to attain the 5th Heightening, lived for a thousand years, and then sold all but their initial breath, would their spiritual age force them to rapidly age as we saw with Rashek, or would they resume natural aging from the point at which they ceased? Brandon's Answer: I think they would rapidly age. But I'm not ready to say 100%. MBHoA Question (asked for @Oversleep): If we spiked a singer with Feruchemical nicrosil, could he store the spren he's bonded to and lose form in the process? Could he bond another spren then? Could he then change forms at will by carefully storing and tapping nicrosil? Brandon's Answer: RAFO (he's pretty consistently doing this to you @Oversleep, too bad, it's a rad question. Pretty rad! So, the Dysian Aimian question really only eliminates my postulate that they were created specifically to be tools of Cultivation, but they are kind of working with Cultivation and kind of working with other groups that we have seen. Sounds like they are mostly pursuing their own agenda, but this agenda has some overlap with Cultivation's plans and some of the other cosmere groups (like the Ghostbloods or the 17th shard). Interesting, but not terribly edifying. As for the return of true age after getting rid of the extra breaths, this is interesting, but seems highly logical and fits with the Cosmere following the principles of Thermodynamics (especially the conservation of Energy). Investiture is necessary to fight off the natural drift towards entropy and disillusion. Interesting that this isn't 100% set at this point, but this could be giving some wiggle room for the awesomeness that is yet to come in Warbreaker 2: Nightblood. This isn't quite the iron clad clarification your were looking for Calderis, but interesting none the less. Brandon has pretty consistently RAFOed your high level hemalurgy questions Oversleep, too bad, this was a great question. I got the Hardcover Mistborn trilogy (not the leatherbounds), but if you are looking for an economical well to get your Words of Brandon, this is really the cost of just one leatherbound volume. In a perfect world, I would be able to order all of the leatherbounds, they are truly beautiful editions and the 2 color interior printing is quite nice, but if like me you are trying to stretch your pennies, this is a pretty good way to do it (if you don't already have the Mistborn Hardcovers that is).

There once was an old Iriali, Who cobbled the poor for a small fee. He thought it was fun To talk of the One. For payment he wanted their story. But Ym, for misdeeds he'd done, In days when he was wild and young, Had his chips cashed in When Nale said with a grin, "It's time to return to the One."

There's lots of interesting speculation along these lines in this theory thread (which I personally am a proponent of): Basic premise is that Adonalsium shatters and reforms in an oscillating repeating cycle of division and unity, in attempt to gain greater self-understanding by isolating aspects of his galactic mind to experience the fullness of a singular aspect not tempered by any other aspect of his mind. Then after having learned the unifying principle of that particular division he reforms until his mind is split again along different lines, all in an effort to reach self-perfection. Total speculation and surmise, but fun stuff to think about to be sure.

@Jofwu and @Calderis, nice clarifications, pretty clear from those WoBs Calderis that the shards are equal in proportion and that there is no remaining unkeyed Adonalsium investiture. Here's another possible way that Adonalsium could have shattered, where all shards are equal in proportion but which still maintains high degree of overlap between the individual shards: Here's a diagram that illustrates how shards A and B outlined above overlap with each other, and shows the two different shard shapes with equal area that all of the remaining 14 shards are made from: The interesting thing about this particular shattering case is that contiguous (or more similar in nature shards) share the greatest common area (overlap) but each shard would overlap with the four radially adjacent clockwise shards, with diminished shared area the further the shard is away in radial position. This has the benefit of preserving quartet groupings (like the divisions of the Metallic Arts in Mistborn) and also is just a pretty rad visualization. Does this prove anything? No. Is it kind of interesting and another possible way that the shattering could have occurred? Yes. Do I like answering my own rhetorical questions? Undoubtedly.

Lin Davar and Nan-Balat's application of violence seems to have one point of commonality, they both direct their violence towards entities weaker than themselves. If this is truly Chemoarish, this could be a small glimpse into the Dustmother's means of affecting people. A net increase in cruelty, specifically targeting the weak. Another thing to think about is that Luesh, Lin's steward was a member of the Ghostbloods. Mraize has given Shallan a mission to bring Sja-Anat onto the Ghostblood's team. This might just be happenstance, or this organization that views morality as an axis that doesn't concern them could have found some way to control one of the Unmade earlier. Total speculation, but interesting to think about.

This is a very interesting line of speculation, one thing that has always stuck out to me was Hoid's claim to have "started out as words on a page". This is super cryptic, but like how Hoid usually speaks, is quite possibly the literal truth. Time to put the tinfoil hat on with the flashlight attached and grab some more coffee, because we're going deep into the Rabbit hole here. What if Hoid is a living engram? A complex signalling device created by Adonalsium in the past precisely to achieve a unified Adonalsium in the future? This would explain why he is always arriving at particular places at significant times without understanding why he is there. He is a signalling system created by a dead god, to move and shape the currents of the future towards a particular end. He would be like the small nudge of fate to particular lives that is instrumental in affecting a large scale plan made long in the past. This would also fit with how his stories are leading and transformative, but rely on the subjective interpretation by the listener to affect their self-transformation. We know that time and space don't exist in the spiritual realm. I just read a good analogy of this in Philip K. Dick's Exegesis, which is thinking of the universe as a single point projected outward into all things in the Universe but not from one fixed point. From this point, where time and space are non-existant, it's possible to project into any point in time or space, including the possible but non-substantial alternate timelines of potential reality. From this vantage, perhaps Adonalsium prefigured his own demise, and created Hoid to reassemble the fragments of his divided mind, and maybe the purpose of Hoid's actions is just reforming Adonalsium, or maybe it's simply to save as many of his creations as possible. Whatever it is, I really do like the idea of Hoid being an agent of a dead god's plan, have an upvote!

I think this is a pretty good summation of what is happening (from the HoA Chapter 81 annotations, emphasis added): Fundamentally, I think that we have to view the shards of adonalsium as separate aspects of the Power of Creation. Each is a subset of the total power and mind of Adonalsium. The expression of this power, call it the intent or the mandate, is visible as projected power to achieve a desired result (or an intended outcome). Therefore the expression of this power by the Vessel is likewise a projection of power to achieve a desired result. So in set theory, all powers used in the Cosmere would be subsets of the Universal Set, which is the Power of the whole and unshattered Adonalsium. There are an infinite variety of cases for how these subsets of power could be comprised of the Universal set, but here are some example cases: In Case A, each of the 16 resultant shards receives a perfectly equal portion of the power of Adonalsium, and there is no leftover power unassociated with a particular shard. In Case B, each shard receives a proportionally equal share of the power of Adonalsium, but there is power of Adonalsium that is unassociated with any of the given shard. In Case C, each shard receives an unequal portion of the power of Adonalsium, and further there is left over power unassociated with any of the shards, and some of the individual powers of a given shard overlap the power of other shards. I think Case C is the most compelling because it provides an avenue for a phenomena that we see in the cosmere, namely corrupted Investiture. Those were the streamlined simple cases, probably closer to the actual is the following set of Cases: Instead of being divided equally the powers were probably disproportionate with atypical and complex boundaries. I think Cases D and F are the most likely. So in examining what influence the Vessel has on using the power of their Shard, or to translate this into the terminology used in this thread, to examine how the Nature of the Shard relates to the Expression of the shard by the Vessel, here's a view of two separate Vessels with different Subjective Understandings (or different Expressions of the nature) of a single shard: Here are the Subjective interpretations of the Nature of Shards held by the Vessels, superimposed over the Shard, which is in turn Superimposed over the Undivided Mind of Adonalsium, formulated as access to the Powers of Creation. Overtime (as very clearly stated by the annotation from the HoA at the top of this post, and in quite a few WoBs) the Vessel's expression of the Shard (or the particulars of the the Vessel's application of the Power of their Shard) will be completely inline with the Nature of the Shard itself. It a bound set, that overtime reasserts it's absolute boundaries. As @Calderis mentioned above, the Powers of Adonalsium need to be directed by a Mind (this is simply that power needs to be directed by something in order to achieve a goal or an end). Before the Shattering, this mind was the complete and unbroken galactic intelligence of Adonalsium himself. After the Shattering, the separate powers of creation needed a Vessel to control and guide them, but overtime these vessels take on the nature and characteristics of the original portion of the Galactic mind that they represent (the strictures/bounds of the possible application of their particular subsets of power). It might be possible use the Power of the Shard when the vessel first acquires it outside of the bounds (or set) of the Shard, but that power has to come from somewhere. I think the case with Vin is one of the clearest examples of this. Her subjective understanding of the nature of the Power of Preservation was not the actual nature of Preservation, but she was able to call somewhat on the Powers of Ruin to sacrifice herself in order to Preserve. One last analogy. Take a flashlight, it was created for a very specific purpose, namely to be carried in your hand and provide illumination. It's nature is portable illumination. Through misapprehension of it's true nature, you could use it as a club. This is a possible use for the flashlight that is outside of the bounds of its intended use (or nature), but within the bounds of the possible because the flashlight also belongs to a larger set, namely of heavy rod shaped objects. But you'd meet with a great lack of success if you misapprehended the nature of the flashlight and tried to use it like a motorcycle. No matter how many cool engine noises you make deep in your throat while you straddle your flashlight, you're never going to be able to ride through town whistling past the graveyard. This is a subjective view of it's nature that is outside of the bounds of the possible (like Kelsier's struggle to use the power of Preservation to actively fight Ruin). I think part of the difficulty of this discussion comes from the fact that infinite power has been subdivided into smaller pieces which are still infinitely powerfully, and then described by a single word, that is open to a fair degree of subjective interpretation (not just from the Vessels, but also from us readers). Describing the Ocean as Wet is apt, but also leaves out a lot by necessity, because a single word is incapable of holding an infinity. Serious discussion on such a subjective topic, with only really good primary evidence for one Shardworld system is destined to veer from the scientific to the Poetic, in honor of that fact, here is one of the best couplets ever written, from William Blake's Auguries of Innocence:

More metaphors should involve Barber shop quartets, nice Shardcast as per usual. I do think there is one example of an Identity compounder, but not in the cosmere. His name is Dan TDM, and I think to increase his compounding ability he's going to include another inset window of himself with real time reactions in response to his own videos. I'm pretty sure he gets his aluminum from the trace amount that leeches from the can into his cola.

This is a very interesting point, very well formulated, but I think that it's working slightly differently. We know that Leras and Ati worked together to create Scadrial as a pure act of creation. We know that at the time of the creation of Scadrial Leras and Ati made a deal where Ati would eventually be able to destroy Scadrial. This implies a true understanding of the Nature of the shard of Ruin at the point of Ascension by Ati, that eventually the power that he held would need to be able to destroy in order to create. He tried to limit the Negative but functionally necessary Nature of his Shard's power by this agreement. But over time, the Nature of his Shard destroyed his mind, and the aspect of his Shard's nature that he tried to repress became more amplified. I think Ati's initial plan was a series of creations and destructions, a repeating cycle of creation, stasis and destruction, but Leras frustrated this plan, destroying the necessary outlet for Ruin's Nature, causing Ati to break under the pent up, unused power of Ruin's nature. I personally think it's great that Leras did this, but I also think that it was the pressure of the unfufilled Nature of the Shard of Ruin that caused Ati to break and turn into the monster that he became, not a deep seated fundamental view of the power of his Shard. But like @Jofwu said, this topic is very much up for debate (and it's an incredibly interesting debate at that, thanks again for writing up such a great OP Jofwu!). I think this is a case of doubly acting against the nature of her Shard, she fails to preserve herself in the act of destruction. This seems like doubling down on the antithetical nature of her expression of the Shard. But, in a wider context, this is a lot like Kaladin killing to protect. She realizes at the point of her Ascension that certain destructive actions will in fact serve Preservation more, the destruction of two lives will Preserve an entire planet.The fact that Ruin had been manipulating and guiding her gave her enough of a connection to Ruin that she was able to accomplish these two acts of destruction in service to the Greater Preservation. I think the Harmony case is a special case. The two forces are diametrically opposed but not incompatible, like the Yin and Yang of Daoism. The reason they can exist as Harmony is that Sazed had an expansive mind that was able to see how these two opposing forces could be combined into a stable unitary whole. This doesn't diminish the nature of either Shard, in combination they are still separate antagonistic forces always fighting to be dominant, it is the enforcement of Balance by Sazed's unified view of the Shard (and careful action to limit ascendancy of any one particular aspect) that keeps them together as a Harmonious whole. All the above aside, I can totally agree to disagree. As always, it's edifying to read your thoughts Calderis, and I can't wait until we get another Cosmere novel to see how these things play out.

The last part is a lot more readable, the characters are more consistently drawn, the continuity from panel to panel works, and the strange historical mish-mash of background detail is toned down. My biggest complaint is that the artwork of the first illustrator pulls you out of the story. I didn't really like the first volume, but the scene with Delius was so bad that I actually had to force myself to read the second volume. To be fair to the illustrator of the first part, he is a talented illustrator but a poor cartoonist. The Mastrell's path section of volume 1 was really well done, his drawings of the natural environments are amazing, but I don't think he was given enough direction for creating Lossand environments. Fantasy art of a novel environment that is just a hodgepodge of items from different and unrelated historical time periods breaks the spell of an alien environment. I love graphic novels, and I love Brandon's work, but I could barely force myself to finish this one. The 2nd cartoonist's art is admittedly more cartoony, but is highly readable and doesn't take you out of the story. It's not perfect but is far superior in terms of not getting in the way of the story.

@Wandering Investor, I realize the distinction that Jowfu was making in his OP, but the Vessel's expression of the Shard would only matter during the period of time that the Vessel's will and agency are separate and distinct from the Nature of the shard or in the case where a novel Shard is produced through synthesis (whether this is combining shards or splinters of different shards into a new Shard). The part that is more interesting to me at least is how a Vessel alters/controls the Power of their shard. It's pretty well established by WoBs that the inherent nature of each shard was set at the time of the shattering and if the Shard is whole then it's underlying Nature is also unchangeable. And that permanent change between a Vessel and a shard is unidirectional, only the Vessel can become more like the Nature of a Shard over time, which implies that the preponderance of the Vessel's agency lies in limiting the full expression of the Nature of the Shard. This lies in either misapprehending the true scope of the Shard's Nature (limitation of the Shard's Nature through ignorance), the intentional repression of negative aspects of the Nature the Shard (limitation by exclusion of part of the Shard's Nature), or the intentional focusing of particular aspects of the Shard's Nature (limitation by amplification of a partial aspect of the Shard's Nature).

I like your revised formulation a lot @Jofwu and your use of diagrams is great, but I think the best part of your formulation is the clarification of terms. Nature is a much better term than intent for discussing the inherent quality of the power of each shard, but I think that I prefer "vessel's control of the shard" rather than "vessel's expression of the shard". The whole reason that there is an intermediary between the world and the power of the shard is so that some type of change can be affected by the Vessel controlling the power. Sometimes a Vessel will be expressing the Nature of the shard, other times they will be trying to control the power of Shard in a way that is line with the Nature of the shard, other times they will be trying to repress the Nature of the Shard and still others they will be trying to do things outside the nature of the Shard. I think that there is always a progression, after ascending a Vessel experiences the Case 2 application of power (where the power the Vessel has access to is a subset of the power of the Shard that they hold and because it's a subset of that power they are able to direct the power willfully) and during the process of holding the shard, the vessel is pushed ever closer to the Case 1 scenario (where the full nature of shard is being expressed as the Vessel is subsumed into the nature of the shard and the Vessel has limited or no agency). But I think that the process of being subsumed into the Nature of the shard happens at different time scales depending on how a Vessel approaches expressing the Nature of their shard. I think we have really 3 cases for how a Vessel can control/alter the natural expression of a Shard: Being a finite mind, the Vessel cannot comprehend the infinitude of the distributed power that is contained within the Nature of the Shard they possess, and therefore are limited in their control of the power of the shard because they can't perceive it's full effect. This is like trying to contain the whole ocean in a single bucket. Control is limited by the finitude of the vessel. But overtime, just like a balloon that is filled with air, the Vessel's consciousness expands, and thus their ability to apply more fully the full extent of their power, but along with this expansion comes a necessary merging of the Vessel's Consciousness into the Nature of their shard. And just like a balloon, the thin containing membrane of the Vessel will become attenuated and stretched, until the Barrier of the Vessel's will is so thin and insubstantial that it becomes functionally meaningless in effect. (I think this is the case with Bavadin, and this is one of the reason's she was able to recognize the concentration of Investiture on First of the Sun as being keyed to her particular investiture). A Vessel in this case, could call themselves something synonymous to the Nature of their shard, but it would only be a synonym derived from an incomplete understanding of the Nature of their Shard. (Like Bavadin could have called herself "Isolation" at first because she didn't quite fully grasp the concept of "Autonomy"). The Vessel attempts to express the Shard in a manner that limits or contains some aspect of the Nature of the Shard that they feel is detrimental (this case would be Ati, trying to contain the destructive powers of Ruin). This is a losing battle, the pent up force of denied Nature will probably always lead to a highly unstable Vessel. Queue, the imperial march, this is the road to hell paved with good intentions that will, given enough time, produce some of the best Cosmere villain shards. This is like a tempestuous sea being held back by a levy, and eventually the levy will break. A Vessel in this case could call themselves something synonymous with the Nature of their Shard through a willful attempt to suppress the negative aspects of the Nature of their Shard (Ati probably started out calling himself "Change"). The Vessel attempts to limit the expression of the shard through focusing on a subset of the full Nature or Powers of a Shard. While the first two cases will always end up with the full expression of the Shards nature by the Vessel, this case might have a chance of giving the Vessel agency for a greater period of time. The pent up pressure of the full Power and Nature of the Shard could in effect be concentrated by this limiting focus (like pressurized water forced out of a small aperture). Also, unlike the first 2 modes of Vessel expression, this mode is necessarily close-minded. The Vessel applying power is this manner might be content to use the power that is inline with their Will that is also part of the Nature of the shard, without ever trying to expand their reach for Power beyond their limited objective. This mode of Vessel expression fits Rayse, and might also explain why he didn't take up the powers of Devotion, Dominion and Ambition. He is not concerned with expanding his power, but rather using it in a way that he can maintain more willful control. A Vessel in this case would willfully call themselves something that is only partially synonymous with the Nature of their Shard (like Rayse calling himself "Passion" because that is the particular aperture that he desires to unleash the pent up pressure of all "Hatred" through).

To be fair to the illustrator, in the first panel, his pinky is bent. But the 2nd panel, looks like he has a bad case of worms, wriggling under his skin where his tendons should be. Poor guy.

Ok, so this is just drawing out a bit of detail from the images that @RShara posted, but holy crap, this art is so bad. This is the same guy from the two panels that are part of the same scene, first look at this expression, he's totally pissed off at his boot! Now, a bit later, look at this sand master's hand, what the heck is going on with this???? Buddy better slatrify away his arthitic claw. So this is really the scene where the ridiculously poor execution of White Sand the graphic novel became unbearable, when Kenton is offering Khriss a drink of water: Ok, kind of hokey, but look, is the illustrator actually drawing a ribbon of sand? No, it was just a big group of magic plus signs. Hey Look, Khriss is across the room and needs some water, wait no she is going to poke the non-existant sand while she is mere inches away from Kenton's face and Kenton is sending the water skin somewhere off panel. Oh, wait, no, she's all the way across the room again. Oh no wait, she's sitting in a chair and Kenton's water skin is back to it's usual spot. Now is the moment we've all been waiting for, Kenton drinking water like a sloppy cro-magnon. Brilliant scene. If I hadn't read the prose version I would have had no idea what in Damnation was going on here.